Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?kbkchooch, I have H9 with a brass frame the that I put a Helix Humper in. I found the the HH just falls in place, no need for filing anything. I however put the decoder(minus sound) in the tender. I use 2 Miniatronics harnesses, one harness?for the motor power and pickup, the other harness for the headlight. Plans are for sound someday, but right now i have to many other locomotive projects going.
?
?
Mark
?
?
?
---In yardbirdtrains@..., <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
Hi Jeff, Yes, I still have it, but alas, I never finished it.? The frame is indeed very rugged.? I am stalled on it, mostly because I am building a layout.? Other shorter projects keep getting in the way as well.? The frame is completely done, but is made for an open frame motor, so now I need to modify it a bit for a can motor.? The boiler and cab are completed as is the tender frame, so I figure, I have very little left to do, compared to what is already done.? Maybe next year when I am retired I can finish it up and use it for my NMRA AP Motive Power entry? Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC
To: yardbirdtrains@... From: jppellas@... Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 23:30:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question ?
Vic,
? ? ?Interesting build which, no doubt, resulted in a super rigid and rugged frame! Do you still have the locomotive??
? ? ?Scratch building a loco is the Everest of ?the "craftsman" facet of the model railroad hobby. I am but a humble kit-basher. Some day, perhaps! ?
-----Original Message----- From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Thu, Sep 26, 2013 5:58 am Subject: RE: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Hi Jeff,
These posts may almost be more suitable to the Brasslocobuilder groupe. ?:o) ?I also agree that a flat cross brace soldered to the frame the way they do is not the best practice. ?I suspect it goes very fast when the pieces are in a jig and the soldering operation is completed very fast with a torch or oven. ?When I built a fabricated brass frame following a Harold Frierson 1959/1960 series of Model Railroader articles, I used spacers made from brass tubing and a 1/16" rod going through. ?I will explain. ?The article wanted you to use Varney frame spacers. ?Maybe they were available back in the 1950's and 1960's, but in the 1970's when I was doing this, the very well stocked hobby shop I supported never heard of these. ?So, I made mine using telescoping brass tubing to get to a 3/8" diameter and using a 3/32 tube on the inside, I made about 4 or 5 of the tubing spacers and made sure they were exactly square a nd the same exact length by chucking in a drill and using a file. I then drilled the 1/16" holes in the side frames as needed, installed the 1/16" rod through the spacers and frame side members. ?I made the 1/16" rod about 1/16" longer then the outside width of the frame and had them extend about 1/32" on each side. ?I then fluxed everything up, installed the spacers, wacked the ends of the 1/16" rod with a center punch to make sure they were tight, double checked the frame for being square and hit it with a torch. ?Afterwards, I filed the remaining rod ends flush with the frame. ?I then was able to install a piece of 1/32" brass sheet across a couple of these spacers using 0-80 flathead screws as a motor mount. ?Voila! ?The frame is very solid and you can solder whatever you want on it without fear of it coming apart. Regards, Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC
To: yardbirdtrains@...From: jppellas@...Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 23:08:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question ?
I have had a few Bowser brass frame locos. The first one that I acquired a while back (second hand) was an L-1. Don't know when it was first sold by Bowser but it had a Penn Line lead boiler with it so Bowser must have still had a supply of PL boilers at that time. The brass cross brace, which also doubled as the motor mount, was coming apart and that was why the previous owner was getting rid of it. When I got it, I was originally thinking I'd re-solder the frame but, upon examining it, I just didn't like the way the frame was constructed. Call me crazy but I don't think the idea of having the cross braces of the frame held in place simply with solder is a sound construction technique. I think a better and stronger construction would be to have the cross braces fit into slots in the side frames and then soldered. Perhaps some critical cross braces (like the motor mount) could be U shaped and held fast by mini flat head screws? Anyway, I decided to punt on the brass frame and went to Bowser to buy a new die cast frame (this was in the mid 1990s). When I did that, Bowser swapped me for a new set of drivers because they wanted the drivers with the brass bolsters back for other modelers who preferred the brass frame.
? ? ?I have also had a brass framed E-6 which I also switched out for a diecast (Penn Line) frame not because it was broken but because I was wary of the brass frame from my previous L-1 experience.?
? ? ?Just a couple months ago I acquired a Bowser H-9 from a friend. The two major differences between the Bowser loco and my older Penn Line H-9 are 1.) the brass frame instead of die cast and 2.) die cast side boards instead of brass ones. The Bowser H-9, like the L-1, came with a Penn Line lead boiler so it is not the most recent H-9 which needs a cast iron weight to make up for it's lighter zamac boiler.
-----Original Message----- From: long95209 < long95209@...> To: yardbirdtrains < yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2013 9:53 am Subject: RE: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
?Great post Jeff ! Igot one of thse brass framed H9s a while back . Had to tweak the frme back to true , troublesome but worth it when finished . ? I agree the "new look " leaves much to be desired , stupid Yahoo .
??
---In yardbirdtrains@..., < yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
According to the last Bowser parts and repair manual, even up until the end of production, Bowser still used the brass frame on some of their locos, including the H-9. They went back to a diecast frame on some models but not the H-9. The manual has the parts lists of past versions of the H-9, going back to Penn Line, however they have a disclaimer saying "Zamac frame no longer available." I just checked the current Bowser parts list and there are still H-9 brass frames available but no die cast frames. If you want a cast frame, you'd have to find a spare Penn Line frame somewhere (and remove the bushings from the axles). I imagine, however, that Alliance would be familiar with how to mount their conversion kit onto the brass frame.?
? ? ?Someone mentioned the grinding noise of Bowser locos and decided the open frame motor was the culprit. While there is an amount of noise from the open frame motor, the "grinding noise" is from the meshing of the worm gear and the axle gear. A mesh that is too tight will cause a louder sound. You can tinker and shim and pull your hair out seeking the perfect mesh but a simpler solution is a NWSL gear box which can be used in tandem with the excellent Bowser DC-71 motor.?
? ? ?The reason Alliance conversion kits are very quiet, even though they do not use an enclosed gear box, is because, instead of having a large worm gear mesh directly with the large Bowser axle gear, they use a small idler gear in between. The idler is already perfectly meshed with their own worm gear and it is a much easier fit with the Bowser axle gear below. Yes, Alliance uses can motors which are slightly quieter than an open frame motor but it is the gear mesh that almost completely eliminates the grinding. ?
-----Original Message----- From: kbkchooch < kbkchooch@...> To: yardbirdtrains < yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:52 pm Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Guys
My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame??
So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9!
BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.?
|
A number of years ago I bought and rat holed a pair of Mantua Logger Engine Kits. I plan to build one of them this winter. Has anyone in the group built these loggers before and, if so, what was your experience. At this time what I know is that I will replace the traction tire wheel set because of wobbling and replacing the coupling between the front and rear engines. (I subsequently purchased non traction tire wheel sets from Mantua).
Steve
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
Hi Jeff, Yes, I still have it, but alas, I never finished it.? The frame is indeed very rugged.? I am stalled on it, mostly because I am building a layout.? Other shorter projects keep getting in the way as well.? The frame is completely done, but is made for an open frame motor, so now I need to modify it a bit for a can motor.? The boiler and cab are completed as is the tender frame, so I figure, I have very little left to do, compared to what is already done.? Maybe next year when I am retired I can finish it up and use it for my NMRA AP Motive Power entry? Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC
To: yardbirdtrains@... From: jppellas@... Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 23:30:42 -0400 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Vic,
? ? ?Interesting build which, no doubt, resulted in a super rigid and rugged frame! Do you still have the locomotive??
? ? ?Scratch building a loco is the Everest of ?the "craftsman" facet of the model railroad hobby. I am but a humble kit-basher. Some day, perhaps! ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Bitleris
To: yardbirdtrains
Sent: Thu, Sep 26, 2013 5:58 am
Subject: RE: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Hi Jeff,
These posts may almost be more suitable to the Brasslocobuilder groupe. ?:o) ?I also agree that a flat cross brace soldered to the frame the way they do is not the best practice. ?I suspect it goes very fast when the pieces are in a jig and the soldering operation is completed very fast with a torch or oven. ?When I built a fabricated brass frame following a Harold Frierson 1959/1960 series of Model Railroader articles, I used spacers made from brass tubing and a 1/16" rod going through. ?I will explain. ?The article wanted you to use Varney frame spacers. ?Maybe they were available back in the 1950's and 1960's, but in the 1970's when I was doing this, the very well stocked hobby shop I supported never heard of these. ?So, I made mine using telescoping brass tubing to get to a 3/8" diameter and using a 3/32 tube on the inside, I made about 4 or 5 of the tubing spacers and made sure they were exactly square a
nd the same exact length by chucking in a drill and using a file. I then drilled the 1/16" holes in the side frames as needed, installed the 1/16" rod through the spacers and frame side members. ?I made the 1/16" rod about 1/16" longer then the outside width of the frame and had them extend about 1/32" on each side. ?I then fluxed everything up, installed the spacers, wacked the ends of the 1/16" rod with a center punch to make sure they were tight, double checked the frame for being square and hit it with a torch. ?Afterwards, I filed the remaining rod ends flush with the frame. ?I then was able to install a piece of 1/32" brass sheet across a couple of these spacers using 0-80 flathead screws as a motor mount. ?Voila! ?The frame is very solid and you can solder whatever you want on it without fear of it coming apart.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC
To: yardbirdtrains@...
From: jppellas@...
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 23:08:26 -0400
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
I have had a few Bowser brass frame locos. The first one that I acquired a while back (second hand) was an L-1. Don't know when it was first sold by Bowser but it had a Penn Line lead boiler with it so Bowser must have still had a supply of PL boilers at that time. The brass cross brace, which also doubled as the motor mount, was coming apart and that was why the previous owner was getting rid of it. When I got it, I was originally thinking I'd re-solder the frame but, upon examining it, I just didn't like the way the frame was constructed. Call me crazy but I don't think the idea of having the cross braces of the frame held in place simply with solder is a sound construction technique. I think a better and stronger construction would be to have the cross braces fit into slots in the side frames and then soldered. Perhaps some critical cross braces (like the motor mount) could be U shaped and held fast by mini flat head screws?
Anyway, I decided to punt on the brass frame and went to Bowser to buy a new die cast frame (this was in the mid 1990s). When I did that, Bowser swapped me for a new set of drivers because they wanted the drivers with the brass bolsters back for other modelers who preferred the brass frame.
? ? ?I have also had a brass framed E-6 which I also switched out for a diecast (Penn Line) frame not because it was broken but because I was wary of the brass frame from my previous L-1 experience.?
? ? ?Just a couple months ago I acquired a Bowser H-9 from a friend. The two major differences between the Bowser loco and my older Penn Line H-9 are 1.) the brass frame instead of die cast and 2.) die cast side boards instead of brass ones. The Bowser H-9, like the L-1, came with a Penn Line lead boiler so it is not the most recent H-9 which needs a cast iron weight to make up for it's lighter zamac boiler.
-----Original Message-----
From: long95209 < long95209@...>
To: yardbirdtrains < yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2013 9:53 am
Subject: RE: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
?Great post Jeff ! Igot one of thse brass framed H9s a while back . Had to tweak the frme back to true , troublesome but worth it when finished . ? I agree the "new look " leaves much to be desired , stupid Yahoo .
??
---In yardbirdtrains@..., < yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
According to the last Bowser parts and repair manual, even up until the end of production, Bowser still used the brass frame on some of their locos, including the H-9. They went back to a diecast frame on some models but not the H-9. The manual has the parts lists of past versions of the H-9, going back to Penn Line, however they have a disclaimer saying "Zamac frame no longer available." I just checked the current Bowser parts list and there are still H-9 brass frames available but no die cast frames. If
you want a cast frame, you'd have to find a spare Penn Line frame somewhere (and remove the bushings from the axles). I imagine, however, that Alliance would be familiar with how to mount their conversion kit onto the brass frame.?
? ? ?Someone mentioned the grinding noise of Bowser locos and decided the open frame motor was the culprit. While there is an amount of noise from the open frame motor, the "grinding noise" is from the meshing of the worm gear and the axle gear. A mesh that is too tight will cause a louder sound. You can tinker and shim and pull your hair out seeking the perfect mesh but a simpler solution is a NWSL gear box which can be used in tandem with the excellent Bowser DC-71 motor.?
? ? ?The reason Alliance conversion kits are very quiet, even though they do not use an enclosed gear box, is because, instead of having a large worm gear mesh directly with the large Bowser axle gear, they use a small idler gear in between. The idler is already perfectly meshed with their own worm gear and it is a much easier fit with the Bowser axle gear below. Yes, Alliance uses can motors which are slightly quieter than an open frame motor but it is the gear mesh that almost completely eliminates the grinding. ?
-----Original Message-----
From: kbkchooch < kbkchooch@...>
To: yardbirdtrains < yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:52 pm
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Guys
My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame??
So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9!
BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.?
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
If that cross brace was put in place with silver solder, I would think it would be perfectly OK due to the extra strength of silver solder. I once had a pair of glasses that kept coming apart so I tried regular solder on them to no avail. I called the local option and was told to use silver solder. I did and the glasses never broke after that. Richard in Vermont? ---In yardbirdtrains@..., <jppellas@...> wrote: Vic,
? ? ?Interesting build which, no doubt, resulted in a super rigid and rugged frame! Do you still have the locomotive??
? ? ?Scratch building a loco is the Everest of ?the "craftsman" facet of the model railroad hobby. I am but a humble kit-basher. Some day, perhaps! ?
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...>
To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Thu, Sep 26, 2013 5:58 am
Subject: RE: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Hi Jeff,
These posts may almost be more suitable to the Brasslocobuilder groupe. ?:o) ?I also agree that a flat cross brace soldered to the frame the way they do is not the best practice. ?I suspect it goes very fast when the pieces are in a jig and the soldering operation is completed very fast with a torch or oven. ?When I built a fabricated brass frame following a Harold Frierson 1959/1960 series of Model Railroader articles, I used spacers made from brass tubing and a 1/16" rod going through. ?I will explain. ?The article wanted you to use Varney frame spacers. ?Maybe they were available back in the 1950's and 1960's, but in the 1970's when I was doing this, the very well stocked hobby shop I supported never heard of these. ?So, I made mine using telescoping brass tubing to get to a 3/8" diameter and using a 3/32 tube on the inside, I made about 4 or 5 of the tubing spacers and made sure they were exactly square a
nd the same exact length by chucking in a drill and using a file. I then drilled the 1/16" holes in the side frames as needed, installed the 1/16" rod through the spacers and frame side members. ?I made the 1/16" rod about 1/16" longer then the outside width of the frame and had them extend about 1/32" on each side. ?I then fluxed everything up, installed the spacers, wacked the ends of the 1/16" rod with a center punch to make sure they were tight, double checked the frame for being square and hit it with a torch. ?Afterwards, I filed the remaining rod ends flush with the frame. ?I then was able to install a piece of 1/32" brass sheet across a couple of these spacers using 0-80 flathead screws as a motor mount. ?Voila! ?The frame is very solid and you can solder whatever you want on it without fear of it coming apart.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC
To: yardbirdtrains@...
From: jppellas@...
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 23:08:26 -0400
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
I have had a few Bowser brass frame locos. The first one that I acquired a while back (second hand) was an L-1. Don't know when it was first sold by Bowser but it had a Penn Line lead boiler with it so Bowser must have still had a supply of PL boilers at that time. The brass cross brace, which also doubled as the motor mount, was coming apart and that was why the previous owner was getting rid of it. When I got it, I was originally thinking I'd re-solder the frame but, upon examining it, I just didn't like the way the frame was constructed. Call me crazy but I don't think the idea of having the cross braces of the frame held in place simply with solder is a sound construction technique. I think a better and stronger construction would be to have the cross braces fit into slots in the side frames and then soldered. Perhaps some critical cross braces (like the motor mount) could be U shaped and held fast by mini flat head screws?
Anyway, I decided to punt on the brass frame and went to Bowser to buy a new die cast frame (this was in the mid 1990s). When I did that, Bowser swapped me for a new set of drivers because they wanted the drivers with the brass bolsters back for other modelers who preferred the brass frame.
? ? ?I have also had a brass framed E-6 which I also switched out for a diecast (Penn Line) frame not because it was broken but because I was wary of the brass frame from my previous L-1 experience.?
? ? ?Just a couple months ago I acquired a Bowser H-9 from a friend. The two major differences between the Bowser loco and my older Penn Line H-9 are 1.) the brass frame instead of die cast and 2.) die cast side boards instead of brass ones. The Bowser H-9, like the L-1, came with a Penn Line lead boiler so it is not the most recent H-9 which needs a cast iron weight to make up for it's lighter zamac boiler.
-----Original Message-----
From: long95209 < long95209@...>
To: yardbirdtrains < yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2013 9:53 am
Subject: RE: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
?Great post Jeff ! Igot one of thse brass framed H9s a while back . Had to tweak the frme back to true , troublesome but worth it when finished . ? I agree the "new look " leaves much to be desired , stupid Yahoo .
??
---In yardbirdtrains@..., < yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
According to the last Bowser parts and repair manual, even up until the end of production, Bowser still used the brass frame on some of their locos, including the H-9. They went back to a diecast frame on some models but not the H-9. The manual has the parts lists of past versions of the H-9, going back to Penn Line, however they have a disclaimer saying "Zamac frame no longer available." I just checked the current Bowser parts list and there are still H-9 brass frames available but no die cast frames. If
you want a cast frame, you'd have to find a spare Penn Line frame somewhere (and remove the bushings from the axles). I imagine, however, that Alliance would be familiar with how to mount their conversion kit onto the brass frame.?
? ? ?Someone mentioned the grinding noise of Bowser locos and decided the open frame motor was the culprit. While there is an amount of noise from the open frame motor, the "grinding noise" is from the meshing of the worm gear and the axle gear. A mesh that is too tight will cause a louder sound. You can tinker and shim and pull your hair out seeking the perfect mesh but a simpler solution is a NWSL gear box which can be used in tandem with the excellent Bowser DC-71 motor.?
? ? ?The reason Alliance conversion kits are very quiet, even though they do not use an enclosed gear box, is because, instead of having a large worm gear mesh directly with the large Bowser axle gear, they use a small idler gear in between. The idler is already perfectly meshed with their own worm gear and it is a much easier fit with the Bowser axle gear below. Yes, Alliance uses can motors which are slightly quieter than an open frame motor but it is the gear mesh that almost completely eliminates the grinding. ?
-----Original Message-----
From: kbkchooch < kbkchooch@...>
To: yardbirdtrains < yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:52 pm
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Guys
My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame??
So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9!
BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.?
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
Vic,
? ? ?Interesting build which, no doubt, resulted in a super rigid and rugged frame! Do you still have the locomotive??
? ? ?Scratch building a loco is the Everest of ?the "craftsman" facet of the model railroad hobby. I am but a humble kit-basher. Some day, perhaps! ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...>
To: yardbirdtrains
Sent: Thu, Sep 26, 2013 5:58 am
Subject: RE: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Hi Jeff,
These posts may almost be more suitable to the Brasslocobuilder groupe. ?:o) ?I also agree that a flat cross brace soldered to the frame the way they do is not the best practice. ?I suspect it goes very fast when the pieces are in a jig and the soldering operation is completed very fast with a torch or oven. ?When I built a fabricated brass frame following a Harold Frierson 1959/1960 series of Model Railroader articles, I used spacers made from brass tubing and a 1/16" rod going through. ?I will explain. ?The article wanted you to use Varney frame spacers. ?Maybe they were available back in the 1950's and 1960's, but in the 1970's when I was doing this, the very well stocked hobby shop I supported never heard of these. ?So, I made mine using telescoping brass tubing to get to a 3/8" diameter and using a 3/32 tube on the inside, I made about 4 or 5 of the tubing spacers and made sure they were exactly square a
nd the same exact length by chucking in a drill and using a file. I then drilled the 1/16" holes in the side frames as needed, installed the 1/16" rod through the spacers and frame side members. ?I made the 1/16" rod about 1/16" longer then the outside width of the frame and had them extend about 1/32" on each side. ?I then fluxed everything up, installed the spacers, wacked the ends of the 1/16" rod with a center punch to make sure they were tight, double checked the frame for being square and hit it with a torch. ?Afterwards, I filed the remaining rod ends flush with the frame. ?I then was able to install a piece of 1/32" brass sheet across a couple of these spacers using 0-80 flathead screws as a motor mount. ?Voila! ?The frame is very solid and you can solder whatever you want on it without fear of it coming apart.
Regards,
Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC
To: yardbirdtrains@...
From: jppellas@...
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 23:08:26 -0400
Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
I have had a few Bowser brass frame locos. The first one that I acquired a while back (second hand) was an L-1. Don't know when it was first sold by Bowser but it had a Penn Line lead boiler with it so Bowser must have still had a supply of PL boilers at that time. The brass cross brace, which also doubled as the motor mount, was coming apart and that was why the previous owner was getting rid of it. When I got it, I was originally thinking I'd re-solder the frame but, upon examining it, I just didn't like the way the frame was constructed. Call me crazy but I don't think the idea of having the cross braces of the frame held in place simply with solder is a sound construction technique. I think a better and stronger construction would be to have the cross braces fit into slots in the side frames and then soldered. Perhaps some critical cross braces (like the motor mount) could be U shaped and held fast by mini flat head screws?
Anyway, I decided to punt on the brass frame and went to Bowser to buy a new die cast frame (this was in the mid 1990s). When I did that, Bowser swapped me for a new set of drivers because they wanted the drivers with the brass bolsters back for other modelers who preferred the brass frame.
? ? ?I have also had a brass framed E-6 which I also switched out for a diecast (Penn Line) frame not because it was broken but because I was wary of the brass frame from my previous L-1 experience.?
? ? ?Just a couple months ago I acquired a Bowser H-9 from a friend. The two major differences between the Bowser loco and my older Penn Line H-9 are 1.) the brass frame instead of die cast and 2.) die cast side boards instead of brass ones. The Bowser H-9, like the L-1, came with a Penn Line lead boiler so it is not the most recent H-9 which needs a cast iron weight to make up for it's lighter zamac boiler.
-----Original Message-----
From: long95209 < long95209@...>
To: yardbirdtrains < yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2013 9:53 am
Subject: RE: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
?Great post Jeff ! Igot one of thse brass framed H9s a while back . Had to tweak the frme back to true , troublesome but worth it when finished . ? I agree the "new look " leaves much to be desired , stupid Yahoo .
??
---In yardbirdtrains@..., < yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
According to the last Bowser parts and repair manual, even up until the end of production, Bowser still used the brass frame on some of their locos, including the H-9. They went back to a diecast frame on some models but not the H-9. The manual has the parts lists of past versions of the H-9, going back to Penn Line, however they have a disclaimer saying "Zamac frame no longer available." I just checked the current Bowser parts list and there are still H-9 brass frames available but no die cast frames. If
you want a cast frame, you'd have to find a spare Penn Line frame somewhere (and remove the bushings from the axles). I imagine, however, that Alliance would be familiar with how to mount their conversion kit onto the brass frame.?
? ? ?Someone mentioned the grinding noise of Bowser locos and decided the open frame motor was the culprit. While there is an amount of noise from the open frame motor, the "grinding noise" is from the meshing of the worm gear and the axle gear. A mesh that is too tight will cause a louder sound. You can tinker and shim and pull your hair out seeking the perfect mesh but a simpler solution is a NWSL gear box which can be used in tandem with the excellent Bowser DC-71 motor.?
? ? ?The reason Alliance conversion kits are very quiet, even though they do not use an enclosed gear box, is because, instead of having a large worm gear mesh directly with the large Bowser axle gear, they use a small idler gear in between. The idler is already perfectly meshed with their own worm gear and it is a much easier fit with the Bowser axle gear below. Yes, Alliance uses can motors which are slightly quieter than an open frame motor but it is the gear mesh that almost completely eliminates the grinding. ?
-----Original Message-----
From: kbkchooch < kbkchooch@...>
To: yardbirdtrains < yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:52 pm
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Guys
My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame??
So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9!
BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.?
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
Hi Jeff, These posts may almost be more suitable to the Brasslocobuilder groupe. ?:o) ?I also agree that a flat cross brace soldered to the frame the way they do is not the best practice. ?I suspect it goes very fast when the pieces are in a jig and the soldering operation is completed very fast with a torch or oven. ?When I built a fabricated brass frame following a Harold Frierson 1959/1960 series of Model Railroader articles, I used spacers made from brass tubing and a 1/16" rod going through. ?I will explain. ?The article wanted you to use Varney frame spacers. ?Maybe they were available back in the 1950's and 1960's, but in the 1970's when I was doing this, the very well stocked hobby shop I supported never heard of these. ?So, I made mine using telescoping brass tubing to get to a 3/8" diameter and using a 3/32 tube on the inside, I made about 4 or 5 of the tubing spacers and made sure they were exactly square and the same exact length by chucking in a drill and using a file. I then drilled the 1/16" holes in the side frames as needed, installed the 1/16" rod through the spacers and frame side members. ?I made the 1/16" rod about 1/16" longer then the outside width of the frame and had them extend about 1/32" on each side. ?I then fluxed everything up, installed the spacers, wacked the ends of the 1/16" rod with a center punch to make sure they were tight, double checked the frame for being square and hit it with a torch. ?Afterwards, I filed the remaining rod ends flush with the frame. ?I then was able to install a piece of 1/32" brass sheet across a couple of these spacers using 0-80 flathead screws as a motor mount. ?Voila! ?The frame is very solid and you can solder whatever you want on it without fear of it coming apart. Regards, Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC
To: yardbirdtrains@... From: jppellas@... Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2013 23:08:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
I have had a few Bowser brass frame locos. The first one that I acquired a while back (second hand) was an L-1. Don't know when it was first sold by Bowser but it had a Penn Line lead boiler with it so Bowser must have still had a supply of PL boilers at that time. The brass cross brace, which also doubled as the motor mount, was coming apart and that was why the previous owner was getting rid of it. When I got it, I was originally thinking I'd re-solder the frame but, upon examining it, I just didn't like the way the frame was constructed. Call me crazy but I don't think the idea of having the cross braces of the frame held in place simply with solder is a sound construction technique. I think a better and stronger construction would be to have the cross braces fit into slots in the side frames and then soldered. Perhaps some critical cross braces (like the motor mount) could be U shaped and held fast by mini flat head screws? Anyway, I decided to punt on the brass frame and went to Bowser to buy a new die cast frame (this was in the mid 1990s). When I did that, Bowser swapped me for a new set of drivers because they wanted the drivers with the brass bolsters back for other modelers who preferred the brass frame.
? ? ?I have also had a brass framed E-6 which I also switched out for a diecast (Penn Line) frame not because it was broken but because I was wary of the brass frame from my previous L-1 experience.?
? ? ?Just a couple months ago I acquired a Bowser H-9 from a friend. The two major differences between the Bowser loco and my older Penn Line H-9 are 1.) the brass frame instead of die cast and 2.) die cast side boards instead of brass ones. The Bowser H-9, like the L-1, came with a Penn Line lead boiler so it is not the most recent H-9 which needs a cast iron weight to make up for it's lighter zamac boiler.
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Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: long95209
To: yardbirdtrains
Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2013 9:53 am
Subject: RE: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
?Great post Jeff ! Igot one of thse brass framed H9s a while back . Had to tweak the frme back to true , troublesome but worth it when finished . ? I agree the "new look " leaves much to be desired , stupid Yahoo .
??
---In yardbirdtrains@..., < yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
According to the last Bowser parts and repair manual, even up until the end of production, Bowser still used the brass frame on some of their locos, including the H-9. They went back to a diecast frame on some models but not the H-9. The manual has the parts lists of past versions of the H-9, going back to Penn Line, however they have a disclaimer saying "Zamac frame no longer available." I just checked the current Bowser parts list and there are still H-9 brass frames available but no die cast frames. If
you want a cast frame, you'd have to find a spare Penn Line frame somewhere (and remove the bushings from the axles). I imagine, however, that Alliance would be familiar with how to mount their conversion kit onto the brass frame.?
? ? ?Someone mentioned the grinding noise of Bowser locos and decided the open frame motor was the culprit. While there is an amount of noise from the open frame motor, the "grinding noise" is from the meshing of the worm gear and the axle gear. A mesh that is too tight will cause a louder sound. You can tinker and shim and pull your hair out seeking the perfect mesh but a simpler solution is a NWSL gear box which can be used in tandem with the excellent Bowser DC-71 motor.?
? ? ?The reason Alliance conversion kits are very quiet, even though they do not use an enclosed gear box, is because, instead of having a large worm gear mesh directly with the large Bowser axle gear, they use a small idler gear in between. The idler is already perfectly meshed with their own worm gear and it is a much easier fit with the Bowser axle gear below. Yes, Alliance uses can motors which are slightly quieter than an open frame motor but it is the gear mesh that almost completely eliminates the grinding. ?
-----Original Message-----
From: kbkchooch < kbkchooch@...>
To: yardbirdtrains < yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:52 pm
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Guys
My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame??
So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9!
BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.?
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
I have had a few Bowser brass frame locos. The first one that I acquired a while back (second hand) was an L-1. Don't know when it was first sold by Bowser but it had a Penn Line lead boiler with it so Bowser must have still had a supply of PL boilers at that time. The brass cross brace, which also doubled as the motor mount, was coming apart and that was why the previous owner was getting rid of it. When I got it, I was originally thinking I'd re-solder the frame but, upon examining it, I just didn't like the way the frame was constructed. Call me crazy but I don't think the idea of having the cross braces of the frame held in place simply with solder is a sound construction technique. I think a better and stronger construction would be to have the cross braces fit into slots in the side frames and then soldered. Perhaps some critical cross braces (like the motor mount) could be U shaped and held fast by mini flat head screws? Anyway, I decided to punt on the brass frame and went to Bowser to buy a new die cast frame (this was in the mid 1990s). When I did that, Bowser swapped me for a new set of drivers because they wanted the drivers with the brass bolsters back for other modelers who preferred the brass frame.
? ? ?I have also had a brass framed E-6 which I also switched out for a diecast (Penn Line) frame not because it was broken but because I was wary of the brass frame from my previous L-1 experience.?
? ? ?Just a couple months ago I acquired a Bowser H-9 from a friend. The two major differences between the Bowser loco and my older Penn Line H-9 are 1.) the brass frame instead of die cast and 2.) die cast side boards instead of brass ones. The Bowser H-9, like the L-1, came with a Penn Line lead boiler so it is not the most recent H-9 which needs a cast iron weight to make up for it's lighter zamac boiler.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: long95209
To: yardbirdtrains
Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2013 9:53 am
Subject: RE: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
?Great post Jeff ! Igot one of thse brass framed H9s a while back . Had to tweak the frme back to true , troublesome but worth it when finished . ? I agree the "new look " leaves much to be desired , stupid Yahoo .
??
---In yardbirdtrains@..., < yardbirdtrains@...> wrote:
According to the last Bowser parts and repair manual, even up until the end of production, Bowser still used the brass frame on some of their locos, including the H-9. They went back to a diecast frame on some models but not the H-9. The manual has the parts lists of past versions of the H-9, going back to Penn Line, however they have a disclaimer saying "Zamac frame no longer available." I just checked the current Bowser parts list and there are still H-9 brass frames available but no die cast frames. If
you want a cast frame, you'd have to find a spare Penn Line frame somewhere (and remove the bushings from the axles). I imagine, however, that Alliance would be familiar with how to mount their conversion kit onto the brass frame.?
? ? ?Someone mentioned the grinding noise of Bowser locos and decided the open frame motor was the culprit. While there is an amount of noise from the open frame motor, the "grinding noise" is from the meshing of the worm gear and the axle gear. A mesh that is too tight will cause a louder sound. You can tinker and shim and pull your hair out seeking the perfect mesh but a simpler solution is a NWSL gear box which can be used in tandem with the excellent Bowser DC-71 motor.?
? ? ?The reason Alliance conversion kits are very quiet, even though they do not use an enclosed gear box, is because, instead of having a large worm gear mesh directly with the large Bowser axle gear, they use a small idler gear in between. The idler is already perfectly meshed with their own worm gear and it is a much easier fit with the Bowser axle gear below. Yes, Alliance uses can motors which are slightly quieter than an open frame motor but it is the gear mesh that almost completely eliminates the grinding. ?
-----Original Message-----
From: kbkchooch < kbkchooch@...>
To: yardbirdtrains < yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:52 pm
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Guys
My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame??
So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9!
BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.?
|
Re: Pics added to 4 sale folder
OK, pics are actually there now and will be adding some...
-Gareth? ---In yardbirdtrains@..., <jgpedwards@...> wrote: Hey Guys
Added some stuff to the 4 sale folder.
Hustler NOS
PL GG-1 Set, Running
Several different boilers and shells
Thanks, Gareth
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?Great post Jeff ! Igot one of thse brass framed H9s a while back . Had to tweak the frme back to true , troublesome but worth it when finished . ? I agree the "new look " leaves much to be desired , stupid Yahoo . ?? ---In yardbirdtrains@..., <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote: According to the last Bowser parts and repair manual, even up until the end of production, Bowser still used the brass frame on some of their locos, including the H-9. They went back to a diecast frame on some models but not the H-9. The manual has the parts lists of past versions of the H-9, going back to Penn Line, however they have a disclaimer saying "Zamac frame no longer available." I just checked the current Bowser parts list and there are still H-9 brass frames available but no die cast frames. If you want a cast frame, you'd have to find a spare Penn Line frame somewhere (and remove the bushings from the axles). I imagine, however, that Alliance would be familiar with how to mount their conversion kit onto the brass frame.?
? ? ?Someone mentioned the grinding noise of Bowser locos and decided the open frame motor was the culprit. While there is an amount of noise from the open frame motor, the "grinding noise" is from the meshing of the worm gear and the axle gear. A mesh that is too tight will cause a louder sound. You can tinker and shim and pull your hair out seeking the perfect mesh but a simpler solution is a NWSL gear box which can be used in tandem with the excellent Bowser DC-71 motor.?
? ? ?The reason Alliance conversion kits are very quiet, even though they do not use an enclosed gear box, is because, instead of having a large worm gear mesh directly with the large Bowser axle gear, they use a small idler gear in between. The idler is already perfectly meshed with their own worm gear and it is a much easier fit with the Bowser axle gear below. Yes, Alliance uses can motors which are slightly quieter than an open frame motor but it is the gear mesh that almost completely eliminates the grinding. ?
-----Original Message-----
From: kbkchooch <kbkchooch@...>
To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:52 pm
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Guys
My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame??
So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9!
BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.?
|
Pics added to 4 sale folder
Hey Guys
Added some stuff to the 4 sale folder.
Hustler NOS
PL GG-1 Set, Running
Several different boilers and shells
Thanks, Gareth
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
According to the last Bowser parts and repair manual, even up until the end of production, Bowser still used the brass frame on some of their locos, including the H-9. They went back to a diecast frame on some models but not the H-9. The manual has the parts lists of past versions of the H-9, going back to Penn Line, however they have a disclaimer saying "Zamac frame no longer available." I just checked the current Bowser parts list and there are still H-9 brass frames available but no die cast frames. If you want a cast frame, you'd have to find a spare Penn Line frame somewhere (and remove the bushings from the axles). I imagine, however, that Alliance would be familiar with how to mount their conversion kit onto the brass frame.?
? ? ?Someone mentioned the grinding noise of Bowser locos and decided the open frame motor was the culprit. While there is an amount of noise from the open frame motor, the "grinding noise" is from the meshing of the worm gear and the axle gear. A mesh that is too tight will cause a louder sound. You can tinker and shim and pull your hair out seeking the perfect mesh but a simpler solution is a NWSL gear box which can be used in tandem with the excellent Bowser DC-71 motor.?
? ? ?The reason Alliance conversion kits are very quiet, even though they do not use an enclosed gear box, is because, instead of having a large worm gear mesh directly with the large Bowser axle gear, they use a small idler gear in between. The idler is already perfectly meshed with their own worm gear and it is a much easier fit with the Bowser axle gear below. Yes, Alliance uses can motors which are slightly quieter than an open frame motor but it is the gear mesh that almost completely eliminates the grinding. ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: kbkchooch
To: yardbirdtrains
Sent: Sun, Sep 22, 2013 4:52 pm
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Guys
My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame??
So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9!
BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor. ?
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
For a short period of time Bowser produced these brass framed 2-80's. ?I had one at one time, but just ran the pittman motor in it. ?I've also seen a 4-6-2 K$ with a brass frame, and believe other Bowser engines were made with them. JBB?
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
Thanks a bunch gang! I just emailed my LHS and told them to go ahead and get the Humper kit for it. I'm sure it will be ok. ?
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., <yardbirdtrains@...> wrote: I bought my first Bowser kit (H-9) in the 80's which had the brass frame. I went all out and filed off any cast on details (including the smoke stack) and then added lost wax details and piping. When I finished it, it looked every bit as good as a brass model. I never could bring myself to paint over all of the work I put into it. Sometime later in the late 80's or 90's, Bowser offered a skew wound open frame motor for their engines. I bought one, hoping that it would do away with the annoying grind but it did not do the job to my satisfaction. If I ever get serious about adding DCC, I would install a NWSL gear box with a can motor.
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
I bought my first Bowser kit (H-9) in the 80's which had the brass frame. I went all out and filed off any cast on details (including the smoke stack) and then added lost wax details and piping. When I finished it, it looked every bit as good as a brass model. I never could bring myself to paint over all of the work I put into it. Sometime later in the late 80's or 90's, Bowser offered a skew wound open frame motor for their engines. I bought one, hoping that it would do away with the annoying grind but it did not do the job to my satisfaction. If I ever get serious about adding DCC, I would install a NWSL gear box with a can motor.
|
Bowser H9s and L1s DCC Installation
Hello list,
?
I had a little extra time this morning before work and I went through my photos.? I could not find one of the work I did on the Bowser H9s chassis, but I did have (previously posted) in the files section of the group (under "Doug Kisala's Kitbashes) a couple of shots of the DCC installation I did on a Bowser L1s chassis.?
?
Basic work for both was identical:? Install small decoder in the engine in back of the motor.? This wouldn't work for a sound installation, but meant I only had to run one wire from the tender to the engine.? I used the Alliance repower kit in both models; I've been very happy with the Alliance repower kits (and the predecessor Helix Humpers).
?
Given all of the recent problems with Yahoo (format changes and such), I suggest copying and pasting the web address below into your browser if the link doesn't work as such.
?
?
Doug Kisala
|
Hello list,
?
I've installed DCC (but not sound) in a Bowser H9s that I modified to represent surviving H10s 7688.? I have to go to work in just a bit, but I'll post pictures after work today.
?
Short history of Penn Line & Bowser H9s frames as I understand it....corrections most welcome.
?
The Penn Line frame was die cast, and Bowser produced that frame when they bought Penn Line's tooling.
?
Sometime in the late 70s or early 1980s, Bowser switched to a fabricated (soldered) brass frame for their H9s and some other models.? I received my H9s kit in 1986, and it had a brass frame.
?
By the late 1980s, Bowser switched back to the cast frames for all of their models except the G5s (which never had anything except a brass frame).
?
My brass frame was forever losing the front cross piece (the part where I screwed on the footboard pilot) so I eventually gave up on that frame and bought a Bowser cast frame.?
?
The two are completely?interchangeable.?
?
There is one caveat:? The drivers for the brass frame have bearings, which have to be removed (or you'll have to use drivers without bearings) when you change from the brass frame to the cast frame.? At the time I made my switch, Bowser was still in full production and I had plans for the drivers with bearings, so I purchased new drivers (sadly not an option anymore, at least from Bowser).
?
My H10s has the Alliance motor and a Digitrax N scale decoder in the engine and runs well with that combination.? The high sided tender would have, I think, enough space for a speaker and sound decoder.
?
Doug Kisala
?
?My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on
that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0
that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I
stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper
conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like
is shows here locomotiveproduc ts.com/153. pdf
< locomotiveproduc ts.com/153. pdf> Instead of
finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to
have a straight railed brass frame? So my question is, could this
be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser
steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a
copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9!BTW, the original motor
is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the
brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
About the frame: Penn Line H9¡¯s only used die cast frames. There were a
bunch left over after the Penn Line went out of business that Bowser continued
to use.
?
Bowser elected to machine brass frames in later production. I believe they
make a better running engine, so you should have a winner on your hands.
?
Jim Waterman
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
I can't say for sure if the Helix Humper will work, but I bet it does.? Bowser? has had both cast metal and fabricated brass frames.? I have a K-4 that I got about 20 years ago or so and it is a fabricated brass frame.? I suspect the boiler and motor mounting areas are compatible. Regards, Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC
To: yardbirdtrains@... From: kbkchooch@... Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 16:52:36 -0700 Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Guys My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame?? So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9! BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.?
|
Re: Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
Just possibly it's a PennLine engine? My 2c worth...
Fred Hultberg(resident etching wizard, Fotocut)
From: "kbkchooch@..."
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 7:52 PM
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bowser H9 2-8-0 question
?
Guys My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame?? So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset
brass H9! BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.?
|
Guys My LHS usually does DCC installs for clients, now they got on that stumped them, so they turned to me. It's a Bowser H9 2-8-0 that the owner wants remotored the DCC & Sound installed, I stopped by today and inspected it, to see if a Helix Humper conversion could be done. I was inspecting to find a frame like is shows ?here??? Instead of finding a cast metal frame that needed grinding, it appears to have a straight railed brass frame?? So my question is, could this be the original frame? I've done remotoring on a lot of Bowser steam before, but never have seen one like this. It's almost a copy of the frame under a Sunset brass H9! BTW, the original motor is shorted in the windings, not salvageable. My LHS insulated the brushes but still smoke a Tsunami with this motor.?
|
Jeff Pellas
rcjge