I think it was Lee Town and I was thinking it was no later than the early 80's. So the 70's may be right on.
There was another small maker at the same time that produced boiler and tender for what is obscure to me, I think it was the O&W rr. I don't remember much of them other than some mikado sized Wootens were made for more than one type of steamer and they were cast in something like epoxy.
Today we can make blank tenders of any kind, from any kind of material, and finish them with the new raised rivet resin decals as well as n/b/w details. There are also different weld seam decal patterns for our use on more modern era equipment that needs welded tenders or whatever.
With the loss of so much of our available parts to detail and build steamers, I've been slowly gathering steamer carcasses with the eye to RTV cast the critical domes and other fittings from them. One I got last year was just the boiler of the old Bachmann Wooten 2-8-0 because of its very nicely molded air pumps on its side. Of course there are the domes and boiler front and maybe some firebox jets to make use of as well. In general, I don't have to damage the originals to make the RTV copies of parts of them. I'm just getting into the meat of this project, doing the like casting has worked out well before. So I have high confidence in working out any bugs to get good quality castings I can use. There will be a trick or two to putting the lower curve on a dome where it sits on the boiler. Several untried ideas are floating for that.
I sorta expect general steamer parts to vanish over the coming years and this is my way of coping with the possibility.
Mike Bauers
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On Feb 24, 2013, at 7:43 AM, "Long95209" <long95209@...> wrote: If you are thinking of LeeTown ? It was earlier than the 1980s ! I haven't seen those offered up in a while . Some of thse pieces were "add ons" if you will . They also produced a terrific "clear vision " tender . I wish[ed] they would reintroduce it , but I could'nt asfford to but it ? Cumberland Valley was the last place I saw listings for any of this stuff . Henry
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...> wrote:
Hi Mike,
Any idea if these Wooten boilers are still arround?
Joel Holmes
In the 80's [?] was some eastern hobby shop that produced a number of Wooten boilers as conversion kits. One of those was the very vintage civil war era B&O camels. He also did more than one type of 1920's or so D&H or similar anthracite road locomotive boiler.
Can't recall the name of the place, but they were very big on Rhino-proof shipping as they touted in every ad.
Best to ya... Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi, USA
On Feb 23, 2013, at 6:31 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
He has two of those bashed 2-8-0's. one powered, one not. Other than that they look the same.
I still haven't figured out the boiler casting as it is not the original Mantua 2-8-0 albeit it appears to be variation of that prototype. I think it may very well be highly modified Cary shell with the Wooten fire box and outside ash traps added and part of the front either lopped off or vertically sectioned. By looking at the amount of cast on piping/sander detail it isn't a Mantua of either era. So far as making that much of a change to a Cary remember that the original, pre-Bowser boiler casting could be relatively soldered which would make the huge firebox addition possible.
But that is just my opinion that I cannot back up as there is no way I can dig out my Cary boilered Mantua mike right now as it is packed away for our move on March 4th. Besides I either bruised or cracked some ribs yesterday (Damned solid ice under the freshly fallen snow) and have serious doubts about getting down the basement stairs. And if I did, the prospect of getting back up them seems highly unlikely right now.
John Hagen
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
Re: Old Kit Tips: Model Power E Units
Hello All,
I haven't responded much have lurking mostly. But this subject I have some experience with. I have several of these E units in various B&M pain schemes (custom painted) 3 E7s and 1 E8. I also used sell these in my hobby shop years ago. Yes they are noisey, but I don't it is the flywheel so much as what I found was the driveline joint in from of the flywheel was the culprit. Solution a judicial application of electrical tape in the joint quiet the drive considerably. In fact made the sound like had sound system with at least one 567 EMD humming away.
Winston Stone Former owner of Model Railroad Specialist South Hobby shop and Custom Painting.
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--- In yardbirdtrains@..., <raul@...> wrote:
-- Ifound that with the original MP E units the flywheels were out of balance and due to their size contributed to the noise. Elimination of them helped and Hobbytown universals should help also. Roger Aultman
-- Jeff Pellas <jppellas@...> wrote:
============= Nathan, As for the Model Power E units, I have a few of those and they are loud! I originally acquired them thinking about combining them with Hobbytown E-7 shells but I figured the resulting loco would be far too heavy to be practical (although I've seen dummys done that way). As far as the gear noise goes, the more run time on those locos, the louder they seem to get. Not sure why this is because you'd think the opposite would be the case. I think the main culprit is a loose fit of the universal gear linking the drive shaft and the power truck. There are two ways to alleviate this: One is simply keeping the power trucks well lubed because the less torque the universal has to transfer, the less the slop comes into play and the quieter the loco will be. The other remedy would be replacing the universal linkage altogether. In fact I would advise doing this because I believe the linkage is just too light weight for what it is required to do. I think an Athearn linkage could be adapted. A Hobbytown universal set would be ideal (if you could marry it to the Model power parts) because they can handle practically any amount of torque and you can customize the length of the drive shaft.
Jeff jppellas@...
-----Original Message----- From: Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 12:52 pm Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Old Kit Tips
I picked up some old Tyco/Mantua kits at a show recently and I want to put them together. They're mid 70's vintage and complete, and I got them for a steal. I'll use Dan's can motors in place of the stock motors and install DCC as I go. Can anybody give any tips on putting these together? I have a Pacific, a mikado, a General, and I can't remember what the other is (they're at home and I'm on the road). Also, at the same show I picked up some old Model Power E units, any tips on quieting them down? If I can get the noise down they seem like they'd pull like beasts. Thanks! Nathan Rich
|
I believe the Rhino proof place was Pro Custom Hobbies.
John Bopp
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--- On Sun, 2/24/13, Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...> wrote: From: Joel Holmes <lehighvalley@...> Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Neat Mantua Kitbash To: "Yardbird Group" <yardbirdtrains@...> Date: Sunday, February 24, 2013, 8:
Hi Mike,
Any idea if these Wooten boilers are still arround?
Joel Holmes
In the 80's [?] was some eastern hobby shop that produced a number of
Wooten boilers as conversion kits. One of those was the very vintage civil
war era B&O camels. He also did more than one type of 1920's or so D&H or
similar anthracite road locomotive boiler. Can't recall the name of the place, but they were very big on Rhino-proof
shipping as they touted in every ad. Best to ya... Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi, USA On Feb 23, 2013, at 6:31 PM, "John Hagen" sprinthag@...> wrote:
He has two of those bashed 2-8-0¡¯s. one powered, one not. Other than
that they look the same.
I still haven¡¯t figured out the boiler casting as it is not the original
Mantua 2-8-0 albeit it appears to be variation of that prototype. I
think it may very well be highly modified Cary shell with the Wooten
fire box and outside ash traps added and part of the front either lopped
off or vertically sectioned. By looking at the amount of cast on
piping/sander detail it isn¡¯t a Mantua of either era. So far as making
that much of a change to a Cary remember that the original, pre-Bowser
boiler casting could be relatively soldered which would make the huge
firebox addition possible.
But that is just my opinion that I cannot back up as there is no way I
can dig out my Cary boilered Mantua mike right now as it is packed away
for our move on March 4th. Besides I either bruised or cracked some
ribs yesterday (Damned solid ice under the freshly fallen snow) and have
serious doubts about getting down the basement stairs. And if I did, the
prospect of getting back up them seems highly unlikely right now.
John Hagen
------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links
|
Re: Old Kit Tips: Model Power E Units
I prefer the Hobbytown set-up which is why I never went forward with the Model power chassis E units+Hobbytown shells. Some day I'll revisit that project. So many ideas, so little time! ?
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-----Original Message-----
From: Long95209
To: yardbirdtrains
Sent: Sun, Feb 24, 2013 6:13 am
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Old Kit Tips: Model Power E Units
?
On that Hobbytown idea ? Why couldn't you make them into a Bride and Groom set up ? Master/slave ? Motor in one , linked to the other powering another set of trucks ? Heavy , but pull ? Oh yeah . Henry
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Jeff Pellas wrote:
>
> Nathan,
> As for the Model Power E units, I have a few of those and they are loud! I originally acquired them thinking about combining them with Hobbytown E-7 shells but I figured the resulting loco would be far too heavy to be practical (although I've seen dummys done that way). As far as the gear noise goes, the more run time on those locos, the louder they seem to get. Not sure why this is because you'd think the opposite would be the case. I think the main culprit is a loose fit of the universal gear linking the drive shaft and the power truck. There are two ways to alleviate this: One is simply keeping the power trucks well lubed because the less torque the universal has to transfer, the less the slop comes into play and the quieter the loco will be. The other remedy would be replacing the universal linkage altogether. In fact I would advise doing this because I believe the linkage is just too light weight for what it is required to do. I think an Athearn linkage
could be adapted. A Hobbytown universal set would be ideal (if you could marry it to the Model power parts) because they can handle practically any amount of torque and you can customize the length of the drive shaft.
>
>
> Jeff
> jppellas@...
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nathan Rich
> To: yardbirdtrains yardbirdtrains@...>
> Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 12:52 pm
> Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Old Kit Tips
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I picked up some old Tyco/Mantua kits at a show recently and I want to put them together. They're mid 70's vintage and complete, and I got them for a steal. I'll use Dan's can motors in place of the stock motors and install DCC as I go. Can anybody give any tips on putting these together? I have a Pacific, a mikado, a General, and I can't remember what the other is (they're at home and I'm on the road).
> Also, at the same show I picked up some old Model Power E units, any tips on quieting them down? If I can get the noise down they seem like they'd pull like beasts.
> Thanks!
> Nathan Rich
>
|
Re: Old Kit Tips: Model Power E Units
On that Hobbytown idea ? Why couldn't you make them into a Bride and Groom set up ? Master/slave ? Motor in one , linked to the other powering another set of trucks ? Heavy , but pull ? Oh yeah . Henry
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Jeff Pellas <jppellas@...> wrote: Nathan, As for the Model Power E units, I have a few of those and they are loud! I originally acquired them thinking about combining them with Hobbytown E-7 shells but I figured the resulting loco would be far too heavy to be practical (although I've seen dummys done that way). As far as the gear noise goes, the more run time on those locos, the louder they seem to get. Not sure why this is because you'd think the opposite would be the case. I think the main culprit is a loose fit of the universal gear linking the drive shaft and the power truck. There are two ways to alleviate this: One is simply keeping the power trucks well lubed because the less torque the universal has to transfer, the less the slop comes into play and the quieter the loco will be. The other remedy would be replacing the universal linkage altogether. In fact I would advise doing this because I believe the linkage is just too light weight for what it is required to do. I think an Athearn linkage could be adapted. A Hobbytown universal set would be ideal (if you could marry it to the Model power parts) because they can handle practically any amount of torque and you can customize the length of the drive shaft.
Jeff jppellas@...
-----Original Message----- From: Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 12:52 pm Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Old Kit Tips
I picked up some old Tyco/Mantua kits at a show recently and I want to put them together. They're mid 70's vintage and complete, and I got them for a steal. I'll use Dan's can motors in place of the stock motors and install DCC as I go. Can anybody give any tips on putting these together? I have a Pacific, a mikado, a General, and I can't remember what the other is (they're at home and I'm on the road). Also, at the same show I picked up some old Model Power E units, any tips on quieting them down? If I can get the noise down they seem like they'd pull like beasts. Thanks! Nathan Rich
|
I pray you'll be OK . That's not good , ice doesn't give much , and we don't "bounce" as good as we ussta' when we were a lot less "mature" ? Rest up. Someone needs to take out that Pa. rodent . Henry
|
If you are thinking of LeeTown ? It was earlier than the 1980s ! I haven't seen those offered up in a while . Some of thse pieces were "add ons" if you will . They also produced a terrific "clear vision " tender . I wish[ed] they would reintroduce it , but I could'nt asfford to but it ? Cumberland Valley was the last place I saw listings for any of this stuff . Henry
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--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "Joel Holmes" <lehighvalley@...> wrote: Hi Mike,
Any idea if these Wooten boilers are still arround?
Joel Holmes
In the 80's [?] was some eastern hobby shop that produced a number of Wooten boilers as conversion kits. One of those was the very vintage civil war era B&O camels. He also did more than one type of 1920's or so D&H or similar anthracite road locomotive boiler.
Can't recall the name of the place, but they were very big on Rhino-proof shipping as they touted in every ad.
Best to ya... Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi, USA
On Feb 23, 2013, at 6:31 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
He has two of those bashed 2-8-0's. one powered, one not. Other than that they look the same.
I still haven't figured out the boiler casting as it is not the original Mantua 2-8-0 albeit it appears to be variation of that prototype. I think it may very well be highly modified Cary shell with the Wooten fire box and outside ash traps added and part of the front either lopped off or vertically sectioned. By looking at the amount of cast on piping/sander detail it isn't a Mantua of either era. So far as making that much of a change to a Cary remember that the original, pre-Bowser boiler casting could be relatively soldered which would make the huge firebox addition possible.
But that is just my opinion that I cannot back up as there is no way I can dig out my Cary boilered Mantua mike right now as it is packed away for our move on March 4th. Besides I either bruised or cracked some ribs yesterday (Damned solid ice under the freshly fallen snow) and have serious doubts about getting down the basement stairs. And if I did, the prospect of getting back up them seems highly unlikely right now.
John Hagen
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
Hi Mike,
Any idea if these Wooten boilers are still arround?
Joel Holmes
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
In the 80's [?] was some eastern hobby shop that produced a number of Wooten boilers as conversion kits. One of those was the very vintage civil war era B&O camels. He also did more than one type of 1920's or so D&H or similar anthracite road locomotive boiler.
Can't recall the name of the place, but they were very big on Rhino-proof shipping as they touted in every ad.
Best to ya... Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi, USA
On Feb 23, 2013, at 6:31 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
He has two of those bashed 2-8-0???s. one powered, one not. Other than that they look the same.
I still haven???t figured out the boiler casting as it is not the original Mantua 2-8-0 albeit it appears to be variation of that prototype. I think it may very well be highly modified Cary shell with the Wooten fire box and outside ash traps added and part of the front either lopped off or vertically sectioned. By looking at the amount of cast on piping/sander detail it isn???t a Mantua of either era. So far as making that much of a change to a Cary remember that the original, pre-Bowser boiler casting could be relatively soldered which would make the huge firebox addition possible.
But that is just my opinion that I cannot back up as there is no way I can dig out my Cary boilered Mantua mike right now as it is packed away for our move on March 4th. Besides I either bruised or cracked some ribs yesterday (Damned solid ice under the freshly fallen snow) and have serious doubts about getting down the basement stairs. And if I did, the prospect of getting back up them seems highly unlikely right now.
John Hagen
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
|
In the 80's [?] was some eastern hobby shop that produced a number of Wooten boilers as conversion kits. One of those was the very vintage civil war era B&O camels. He also did more than one type of 1920's or so D&H or similar anthracite road locomotive boiler.
Can't recall the name of the place, but they were very big on Rhino-proof shipping as they touted in every ad.
Best to ya... Mike Bauers Milwaukee, Wi, USA
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 23, 2013, at 6:31 PM, "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
He has two of those bashed 2-8-0¡¯s. one powered, one not. Other than that they look the same.
I still haven¡¯t figured out the boiler casting as it is not the original Mantua 2-8-0 albeit it appears to be variation of that prototype. I think it may very well be highly modified Cary shell with the Wooten fire box and outside ash traps added and part of the front either lopped off or vertically sectioned. By looking at the amount of cast on piping/sander detail it isn¡¯t a Mantua of either era. So far as making that much of a change to a Cary remember that the original, pre-Bowser boiler casting could be relatively soldered which would make the huge firebox addition possible. But that is just my opinion that I cannot back up as there is no way I can dig out my Cary boilered Mantua mike right now as it is packed away for our move on March 4th. Besides I either bruised or cracked some ribs yesterday (Damned solid ice under the freshly fallen snow) and have serious doubts about getting down the basement stairs. And if I did, the prospect of getting back up them seems highly unlikely right now.
John Hagen
|
He has two of those bashed 2-8-0¡¯s. one powered, one not. Other than that they look the same. ? I still haven¡¯t figured out the boiler casting as it is not the original Mantua 2-8-0 albeit it appears to be variation of that prototype. I think it may very well be highly modified Cary shell with the Wooten fire box and outside ash traps added and part of the front either lopped off or vertically sectioned. By looking at? the amount of cast on piping/sander detail it isn¡¯t a Mantua of either era. So far as making that much of a change to a Cary remember that the original, pre-Bowser boiler casting could be relatively soldered which would make the huge firebox addition possible. ? But that is just my opinion that I cannot back up as there is no way I can dig out my Cary boilered Mantua mike right now as it is packed away for our move on March 4th.? Besides I either bruised or cracked some ribs yesterday (Damned solid ice under the freshly fallen snow) and have serious doubts about getting down the basement stairs. And if I did, the prospect of getting back up them seems highly unlikely right now. ? John Hagen ?
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From: yardbirdtrains@... [mailto:yardbirdtrains@...] On Behalf Of Walter Bayer II Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2013 5:50 PM To: yardbirdtrains@... Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Neat Mantua Kitbash? ? No motor, it appears. May explain why Seller finds it doesn't run (:<)).
Jeff, I think another ebayer said it was a Cary boiler.
Walter On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 10:58 AM, jppellas <jppellas@...> wrote: ? No doubt some of you have seen this on eBay but there are a couple of well done kitbashes of Delaware and Hudson heavy 2-8-0 locos using Mantua 2-8-2 chassis and tenders as the starting point. The seller describes them as having Cary Loco Works boilers mounted on Mantua frames but I don't think so. Cary never made that boiler or any boiler for a 2-8-0. It might be a modified Mantua 2-8-2 boiler but probably not unless the modeler went to the effort of adding a rivted jacket to the smokebox (which you can see in the side image). I'm guessing the boiler began as a very old Mantua Reading 2-8-0? In any event, the model is well done! Ebay# 310601342919
-- Regards, Walter
|
No motor, it appears. May explain why Seller finds it doesn't run (:<)).
Jeff, I think another ebayer said it was a Cary boiler.
Walter
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On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 10:58 AM, jppellas <jppellas@...> wrote:
?
No doubt some of you have seen this on eBay but there are a couple of well done kitbashes of Delaware and Hudson heavy 2-8-0 locos using Mantua 2-8-2 chassis and tenders as the starting point. The seller describes them as having Cary Loco Works boilers mounted on Mantua frames but I don't think so. Cary never made that boiler or any boiler for a 2-8-0. It might be a modified Mantua 2-8-2 boiler but probably not unless the modeler went to the effort of adding a rivted jacket to the smokebox (which you can see in the side image). I'm guessing the boiler began as a very old Mantua Reading 2-8-0? In any event, the model is well done! Ebay# 310601342919
-- Regards, Walter
|
Re: Adding DCC to Bowser, Pennline, John English, or Varney Locomotives
So far, so good! I've converted a Bowser M1A with a Helix Humper and a NCE decoder . Pulled 75 cars, no problem. NWSL gearbox, Sagami can and a Tsunami in my Mantua pacific, again, runs great. Added a Bowser upgrade kit with its "DCC friendly" motor in a Bachmann GS4. Turned out great. Based on the success of my Sakura 0-4-0T with a Micro Tsunami, I'm going to try the same with a Mantua Pony 0-4-0, with the addition of a TCS "keep alive" unit with the Micro tsunami. They have all run great, hopefully this will continue. A Mantua 0-6-0, a Mantua Mikado, a Penn Line Atlantic, and a Penn Line midget diesel are waiting in the wings. :-)
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--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "twilight022765" <twilight022765@...> wrote: Was wondering how successful some of you have been in adding DCC to some of your older steam locomotives? I'm pretty much a Bowser guy and have converted two locomotives over to DCC, but the H9 I did has a very noticable power and speed loss. The locomotive can only pull about 5 cars. I've changed the DC-71 motor to a Helix Humper and now have added a TCS decoder to it. It previously had a NEC decoder in it. Alliance Motors makers of the Helix Humper suggests the TCS decoder. I am currently to the point that I am about to add pickups to the tender trucks and locomotive frame and see if that improves the speed and power. That's my project for the week. Right now the signal is being picked up I would say traditionally. With the signal passing through the bolsters on the tender and being pick up through the drivers on the other. Still utilizing the tender for one side and the loco for the other. Let me know what you guys have done.
Mark
|
Re: Old Kit Tips: Model Power E Units
There are others on this list with more zinc rot experiences than I. That said, I don't believe there is a cure. My understanding is that this starts with impurities in the molten alloy and progresses on the level of molecule interactions. Denying oxygen may or may not slow the reactions. You can hide the early stages. But if the beginnings are in there, sooner or later you end up with pieces. All toys have a useful life, just like us. Enjoy the today. Chuck Peck
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--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> wrote: The U-joints being the cause of concern seems to be the consensus.
One site that I looked at elsewhere mentioned that they sometimes have a zinc-rot problem in the frames, And to stop it from eating itself to run it through the dishwasher, and then let it dry thoroughly and paint the frame with rustoleum to create a protective barrier. Any creedence to this idea? I know that there may be an issue with Power pickup that goes through the frame but I usually hardwire a couple of leads to somewhere on the trucks.
|
Re: Old Kit Tips: Model Power E Units
The U-joints being the cause of concern seems to be the consensus.
One site that I looked at elsewhere mentioned that they sometimes have a zinc-rot problem in the frames, And to stop it from eating itself to run it through the dishwasher, and then let it dry thoroughly and paint the frame with rustoleum to create a protective barrier. Any creedence to this idea? I know that there may be an issue with Power pickup that goes through the frame but I usually hardwire a couple of leads to somewhere on the trucks. I'll have my painter buddy paint them up to be Amtrak, at least two of them. Right now I have 2 BN hockey stick units and one ATSF unit.
I'll check to see if any of the flywheels are out of balance and rectify that by removing them if they are, good idea. That's why I asked! I'll look around to see what I can find for U-joints, if I can't find something suitable I'll have my 3D modeler buddy cook me up something to be 3D printed. The steel material from Shapeways would be good for this, I have experimented with it a little on a past project.
This is the stuff I enjoy doing, finding diamonds in the rough and fixing them up to be better than they ever were.
Picture attached is Amtrak train number 795, the Mt Rainier, en route from Seattle to Portland in late February 1976. Not long after, this train was briefly re-equipped with Amfleets and F40PH's before getting Superliners with the same F40PH's. Today, it has the Talgo trains with F59PHI's, which I recommend taking a ride on if you haven't already. My large-scope modelling hangup is Amtrak from Seattle to Portland in all of its iterations, but outside of that I'll do anything (as evidenced by those steam kits- I'm a tinkerer at heart).
Thanks, I love this group already... I wish I had joined sooner!
Nathan Rich
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?Jeff ! I'm in ! I have one MP E-unit pulls really well , runs like mad . And need I add noisy as the Devil ! Growls like mad , makes a cackle when you crack open the juice ? . I've got bunches of hours on it also . Just the nature of the beast I guess . I love it ! Henry
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Jeff Pellas wrote:
>
> Nathan,
> ? ? ?As for the Model Power E units, I have a few of those and they are loud! I originally acquired them thinking about combining them with Hobbytown E-7 shells but I figured the resulting loco would be far too heavy to be practical (although I've seen dummys done that way). As far as the gear noise goes, the more run time on those locos, the louder they seem to get. Not sure why this is because you'd think the opposite would be the case. I think the main culprit is a loose fit of the universal gear linking the drive shaft and the power truck. There are two ways to alleviate this: One is simply keeping the power trucks well lubed because the less torque the universal has to transfer, the less the slop comes into play and the quieter the loco will be. The other remedy would be replacing the universal linkage altogether. In fact I would advise doing this because I believe the linkage is just too light weight for what it is required to do. I think an Athearn linkage could be adapted. A Hobbytown universal set would be ideal (if you could marry it to the Model power parts) because they can handle practically any amount of torque and you can customize the length of the drive shaft.
>
>
> Jeff
> jppellas@...
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...>
> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...>
> Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 12:52 pm
> Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Old Kit Tips
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I picked up some old Tyco/Mantua kits at a show recently and I want to put them together. They're mid 70's vintage and complete, and I got them for a steal. I'll use Dan's can motors in place of the stock motors and install DCC as I go. Can anybody give any tips on putting these together? I have a Pacific, a mikado, a General, and I can't remember what the other is (they're at home and I'm on the road).
> Also, at the same show I picked up some old Model Power E units, any tips on quieting them down? If I can get the noise down they seem like they'd pull like beasts.
> Thanks!
> Nathan Rich
>
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Re: Old Kit Tips: Model Power E Units
Jeff ! I'm in ! I have one MP E-unit pulls really well , runs like mad . And need I add noisy as the Devil ! Growls like mad , makes a cackle when you crack open the juice ? . I've got bunches of hours on it also . Just the nature of the beast I guess . I love it ! Henry
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--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Jeff Pellas <jppellas@...> wrote: Nathan, As for the Model Power E units, I have a few of those and they are loud! I originally acquired them thinking about combining them with Hobbytown E-7 shells but I figured the resulting loco would be far too heavy to be practical (although I've seen dummys done that way). As far as the gear noise goes, the more run time on those locos, the louder they seem to get. Not sure why this is because you'd think the opposite would be the case. I think the main culprit is a loose fit of the universal gear linking the drive shaft and the power truck. There are two ways to alleviate this: One is simply keeping the power trucks well lubed because the less torque the universal has to transfer, the less the slop comes into play and the quieter the loco will be. The other remedy would be replacing the universal linkage altogether. In fact I would advise doing this because I believe the linkage is just too light weight for what it is required to do. I think an Athearn linkage could be adapted. A Hobbytown universal set would be ideal (if you could marry it to the Model power parts) because they can handle practically any amount of torque and you can customize the length of the drive shaft.
Jeff jppellas@...
-----Original Message----- From: Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 12:52 pm Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Old Kit Tips
I picked up some old Tyco/Mantua kits at a show recently and I want to put them together. They're mid 70's vintage and complete, and I got them for a steal. I'll use Dan's can motors in place of the stock motors and install DCC as I go. Can anybody give any tips on putting these together? I have a Pacific, a mikado, a General, and I can't remember what the other is (they're at home and I'm on the road). Also, at the same show I picked up some old Model Power E units, any tips on quieting them down? If I can get the noise down they seem like they'd pull like beasts. Thanks! Nathan Rich
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Re: Adding DCC to Bowser, Pennline, John English, or Varney Locomotives
@ Amps ? Good Lord , either the mechanism [chassis] needs to be looked at or those motors . There are oilite bearings that go dry over the years ? Take the motors out of their locations and perform a "dry" run back and forth on test track to see if there is a bind ? i f all this comes up empty ? Get bigger buss wires under your layout ? Henry
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--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Victor Bitleris <bitlerisvj@...> wrote:
Yep, I totally agree with Tom, under no load, it should draw less than .5 amp, even that is a bit on the high side from what I have seen. What you may wish to do is to try the motor outside the mechanism and see what current it draws. If it is still high, the magnets are likely old and weak. You can replace them with neodymium magnets if you wish. If the current draw for the motor by itself is low, then definitely the mechanism needs tuning/fixing. Regards, Vic Bitleris
Vic Bitleris Raleigh, NC
To: yardbirdtrains@... From: tomk@... Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:29:39 -0600 Subject: Re: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Adding DCC to Bowser, Pennline, John English, or Varney Locomotives
2 amps? With no load? Wow. This seems excessive, even for a DC 71 X 2. Sounds to me like the mechanisms are not yet free-running.
I have been a proponent of always series wiring twin motors. This gives down low "Grunt", and helps match the speed of the motors. It also will cut current draw in half. It also will slow an engine down to a realistic level. To do this with open frame motors, one of them must be have its brushes totally isolated from the frame, much like what we do when we apply DCC to these old motors. Try it you'll never go back to parallel.
Tom Knowles NOTE NEW ADDRESS: tomk@... On 1/2/2013 7:31 PM, allegheny american wrote:
Glad to hear your on the right track Mark. I learned something new, my decoder does run in DC! i checked the digitrax website and you can change a cv to allow it to run in analog. I had no idea.
anyways, im running the DH123 hard wired, it does not have back emf. I bought these decoders for consisting, i thought i had read not to use back emf decoders if your running a consists, which i like to do for pulling coal hoppers. i threw this one into my little mantua just to get a switcher going, and it worked pretty good. I had mine running in DC quite well before doing the conversion. I like to put a gear box on it to help out, not sure if Dan was still selling them or not. I dont see them on his website now.
I know this area well, where the trucks mount to the tender, thanks to the great guys on this forum. i had cleaned mine before and put some wahl clipper on them. it makes pretty good contact.
I like the helix humper motors, i bought a couple of them to remotor two brass M1A's. ive got one done, ready for a dcc decoder.
Speaking of the DC-71 bowser mootors, i have them in my Bowser T1 they did a rerun of a couple years ago. i do not have a power supply big enough to run it more than a few minutes before it trips the breaker. ive done everything i can think of to lower the current draw, and ive measured it and at one point it hit around 2 amps.
TCS makes a great decoder. i see the videos of the ones that have the keep alive power. i think ill put one in this mantua 0-6-0, being that i have a lot of #8 turnouts, that dont have powered frogs. DO you have pics of your engine on here, id like to see it. i love the bowser steamers.
Jerry
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "twilight022765" <twilight022765@> wrote:
>
> Jerry, I am now back in DCC. I discovered another cleaning spot I had not thought of before. When I isolated the decoder to just the the locomotive and ran it with a jumper wire to the track, the loco seemed to operate with a little more guts. Raped ape I'm not to sure of, but it was similiar to what I saw when I had it running in DC. . I rehooked the black lead to the tender body and the locomotive respond poorly again. So that told me the problem is in the tender someplace. The spot for cleaning I didn't think of before was where the wheelset points rest in the tender trucks. They were filled with crud. I cleaned them all out with Goo Gone(went to Walmart for the Flitz but they didn't have it in the store, only online). And when I put the locomotive back together and on the test track, the H9 responded better, at least the operation was smooth and clean. I need to re-do the lighting circuit now and repaint the tender body(I redid the tender body because of a decal problem). I might just reassemble it the way it is right now to take it to the club and test it out. I want to see how the speed and power are. Will see what tonight and tomorrow brings.
>
> Does the Digitrax decoder you mentioned have Bemf or something similiar? I just checked the specs real quick and I did not see anything that mentioned it. I used to use Digitrax decoders but began having difficulties with them and changed to NCE which is the DCC system my club uses. The decoder I have installed now in the H9 is a TCS which was recommended by the makers of the Helix Humper. We have other club members that have TCS decoders and they really like them. So this is actually my second one, first in a Bowser. We'll see what happens when I get it to the club.
>
> Thanks everybody for there input. If you know something else to try don't hesitate to mention it.
>
> Mark
>
> --- In yardbirdtrains@..., "allegheny american" <alleghenyamerican@> wrote:
> >
> > I literally just put a DH123D digitrax decoder into an old mantua 0-6-0 and tested it out and it runs like a raped ape. probably about 400 scale mph. look at my pictures in jerrys kitsmashing. i have a few photos of the install.
> >
> > im testing mine with dcc. once the decoder is installed you cannot put straight DC to it, unless you disconnect the decoder first. Let me know if i can help you out.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > --- In yardbirdtrains@..., "allegheny american" <alleghenyamerican@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Are you trying to apply straight dc voltage to the H9 with the decoder installed? I just want to be clear before i respond anymore.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > > --- In yardbirdtrains@..., "twilight022765" <twilight022765@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Today I was able to make the H9 operate in DC and it seems to move much quicker and stronger. I have also isolated the decoder to just the locomotive and via a jumper wire(alligator clips)to the opposite rail, operated the locomotive and I think I see equal results as compared to the operation in DC. So, this has narrowed me down to, dirty tender wheels, poor pickup from tender wheels, or defective plug and socket from Minitronics I use in between the tender and the cab(I have installed my decoders in the tender). My next step is to eliminate the plug and socket and see where we go from there.
> > > >
> > > > Mark
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In yardbirdtrains@..., "twilight022765" <twilight022765@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Update, I just was able to operate the H9 in DC with the decoder in place, it ran nice and strong! Where to go from here? I think I need to refigure how the motor is fed from the decoder and figure out a pickup scheme.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mark
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In yardbirdtrains@..., "emmettdene" <emmettdene@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > check the files section. i did a project a couple of years ago adding dcc to a mantua mike and posted it there.
> > > > > > emmet d
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In yardbirdtrains@..., "twilight022765" <twilight022765@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jeff, I think you got a little mixed up or I may not have been clear with my discription. The H9 is operating with a Helix Humper right now. I switched out the dc-71 when I built it. If I apply DC voltage to the motor with the decoder disconnected the Humper sails. This is with leads coming directly from the transformer to the posts of the motor. When, I have the decoder in place is where I see the loss of power. I need to find what CV allows the decoder to run both DC and DCC. I plan to look at that tomorrow. I liked what you said about the "unexpected current draw", though, which has been a feeling I've had for some time. However the the head light is a LED.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am going to give the pickups a try as mentioned in the other posts. There has been alot of good sugestions made for me to check out. And I am glad to see that these old steamers can be converted over with success. I've seen a Bowser I1 with DCC and sound on youtube that is pulling like 30 40ft boxcars and it's pretty impressive. Someday, I'll have my Huh-ha moment and I'll recognize what's going on with my H9.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the suggestions, Mark
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In yardbirdtrains@..., Jeff Pellas <jppellas@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mark.
> > > > > > > > Are you saying that you had a power loss with a new decoder paired with a DC-71 motor THEN went to a Helix Humper and are still having the same problem? If you were using the latest version of the Bowser DC-71 then you should have had plenty of power with or without a decoder. I know a guy who regularly replaces older open frame motors in brass models with the Bowser DC-71 because it is so much smoother, more powerful and is perfectly compatible with the Lok Sound decoders he uses. If you went to a Helix Humper and STILL have no power while the rest of your locos have plenty of power then the culprit is definitely the decoder OR something having to do with the decoder... like wiring or an unexpected current draw. Are you using the old style filament light bulbs or did you switch to LEDs when you converted to DCC? Filament bulbs draw a lot more current than LEDs. Your decoder might not be compatible with the older light bulbs causing a loss of pulling power.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jeff
> > > > > > > > jppellas@
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: twilight022765 <twilight022765@>
> > > > > > > > To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...>
> > > > > > > > Sent: Sun, Dec 30, 2012 9:52 pm
> > > > > > > > Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Adding DCC to Bowser, Pennline, John English, or Varney Locomotives
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Was wondering how successful some of you have been in adding DCC to some of your older steam locomotives? I'm pretty much a Bowser guy and have converted two locomotives over to DCC, but the H9 I did has a very noticable power and speed loss. The locomotive can only pull about 5 cars. I've changed the DC-71 motor to a Helix Humper and now have added a TCS decoder to it. It previously had a NEC decoder in it. Alliance Motors makers of the Helix Humper suggests the TCS decoder. I am currently to the point that I am about to add pickups to the tender trucks and locomotive frame and see if that improves the speed and power. That's my project for the week. Right now the signal is being picked up I would say traditionally. With the signal passing through the bolsters on the tender and being pick up through the drivers on the other. Still utilizing the tender for one side and the loco for the other. Let me know what you guys have done.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mark
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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Re: Old Kit Tips: Model Power E Units
-- Ifound that with the original MP E units the flywheels were out of balance and due to their size contributed to the noise. Elimination of them helped and Hobbytown universals should help also. Roger Aultman
-- Jeff Pellas <jppellas@...> wrote:
============= Nathan, As for the Model Power E units, I have a few of those and they are loud! I originally acquired them thinking about combining them with Hobbytown E-7 shells but I figured the resulting loco would be far too heavy to be practical (although I've seen dummys done that way). As far as the gear noise goes, the more run time on those locos, the louder they seem to get. Not sure why this is because you'd think the opposite would be the case. I think the main culprit is a loose fit of the universal gear linking the drive shaft and the power truck. There are two ways to alleviate this: One is simply keeping the power trucks well lubed because the less torque the universal has to transfer, the less the slop comes into play and the quieter the loco will be. The other remedy would be replacing the universal linkage altogether. In fact I would advise doing this because I believe the linkage is just too light weight for what it is required to do. I think an Athearn linkage could be adapted. A Hobbytown universal set would be ideal (if you could marry it to the Model power parts) because they can handle practically any amount of torque and you can customize the length of the drive shaft.
Jeff jppellas@...
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-----Original Message----- From: Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2013 12:52 pm Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Old Kit Tips
I picked up some old Tyco/Mantua kits at a show recently and I want to put them together. They're mid 70's vintage and complete, and I got them for a steal. I'll use Dan's can motors in place of the stock motors and install DCC as I go. Can anybody give any tips on putting these together? I have a Pacific, a mikado, a General, and I can't remember what the other is (they're at home and I'm on the road). Also, at the same show I picked up some old Model Power E units, any tips on quieting them down? If I can get the noise down they seem like they'd pull like beasts. Thanks! Nathan Rich
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Amen Mr.Tom , Amen . Great posts here group . Henry
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--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Tom Knowles <tomk@...> wrote: This of course, is the bane of the custom modeler.
Tom Knowles NOTE NEW ADDRESS: tomk@...
On 2/22/2013 7:34 AM, Jeff Pellas wrote:
I tried to get them to sell some drivers to me directly but they just won't do it... which seems like an incredible waste because I'm sure they have lots of junk locos that get returned to them for one reason or another and they just end up in their dumpster. This is not because there's anything particularly wrong with more recent Bachmann offerings, it's simply a result of the huge volume of sales they handle. There'll always be a percentage of lemons! Anyway, from a business standpoint, not having to support a line of replacement parts keeps their overhead ...and payroll low. It's easier and cheaper for them to just replace a given locomotive or car instead of fix it or try to figure out what parts to send back so the modeler they could fix it.
Jeff jppellas@...
-----Original Message----- From: Alan <albyrno@...> To: yardbirdtrains <yardbirdtrains@...> Sent: Thu, Feb 21, 2013 4:22 pm Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Bachmann parts
I am wanting to get some parts from bachmann and when I sent inquiry as to payment accepted this is the response I got.
We currently do not sell directly to consumers. Our direct order Parts Department does not accept Pay Pal. Best regards, The Sales Team Bachmann Industries, Inc.
Does this mean they don't sell rtr equipment to public or just parts,have been trying for days to get a hold of a real live person to talk with but they have only replied by e-mail and not returned my calls. Could this be a result of the storms? Alan
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CLICK ON THE "HotRods.PPS" attachment to see. Regards, Walter
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I have had nothing but good experiences
with Bachmann, but this goes waaay back. If the King of the Hill
of the Day is true today, then who knows what to expect?
It offends the preservationist in me to think of things as
throw-away for whatever reason. I cringe when the DIY TV shows
show the sledge hammer going into perfectly re-useable wooden
cabinets for the sake of "renovation". I buy junk engines on ebay
and resurrect them. I (alternately!) drive two old BMWs that I
literally rescued from junk yards.
Rivarossi once had a program that I admired and availed myself of:
Buy three engines in varying states of disrepair for one cheap
price and build one or two good ones from it.
Lack of service dooms the merchant.
Tom Knowles
NOTE NEW ADDRESS: tomk@...
On 2/22/2013 12:02 PM, Alan Kilby wrote:
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?
Dave,
? That pretty much confirms my suspicions about them
as to a poorly run/managed company,the wasted time in
warranty of defective items alone is a waste,IMO most of
their problems could have been avoided if inherent
issues were addressed/repaired before selling item
avoiding costly returns,their reputation and sales would
be a lot better(they likely have lost hundreds of
thousands of dollars from model railroaders).I am only
wanting the drivers due to price which with botchman
product may only be as good as you pay for,had planned
to acc drivers to axles,hoping they wouldn't fall
off,planned to use these for locos I'm
scratchbuilding.Thought I'd give them another try but
considering prior experiences with them and their lack
of communication with potential clients,I had not told
them what I wanted,I could potentially have been a huge
order from distibutor they lost out on, I don't think I
will pursue getting the parts from them.
?I ran across someone with a bunch of (junk?)
locos/parts he wants to sell that may have what I
need,desctiption is vague.
?Alan
Botchmann Parts. Depends,
really, on who has taken control this week. Did the
Director of Product Developmemnt take control? Did the
Communications Director take control??
Did the
parts and service manager get fired again?
Did the
manager decide it was "too hard" to fix returned
locomotives, and just send out $10K worth of
replacements this week?
Was there
another fight over who is in charge, resulting in
returned locomotives going through the crusher on the
loading dock?
I could go
on and on......maybe you need to check the time of the
month on your calendar. Or the phase of the moon.
I will
never, as in ever, buy a new Bachmann product again.
Since Howard
Lee changes design so often (is it an attempt to get
something to work reliably? I will leave you to decide
that) older units have zero parts availability.
Everybopdy
in Philly seems to want to play "King of the Hill", so
the lack of desire to sell parts today may change by?Monday morning.
I could tell
you so much....but the Yahoo software would cut off
the reply before I even got 10% out.
Dave
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