Welcome to our newest members !
Welcome to our 2 newest members , chplin1@... and mermaidnc@... . Welcome , feel free to browse the members photo albums . Some fine work in those . Again welcome to you both . Henry H. moderator
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Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
Presently I use any tuner cleaner or CRC Electronic cleaner/conditioner. Get a Q-tip moist with it and use that as the applicator.
Local sources are Marine supply stores, the better hardware stores, and Auto parts stores.
Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA
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On Jun 7, 2013, at 12:35 PM, Richard <rh@...> wrote: Mike,
What is the name of the liquid form that you use? I would like to get some. Thanks.
Richard in Vermont
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
YES !!!
While I've been using more of a liquid form of the stuff, I've been doing the same since the early '70's
Man, does the method work well!
What proved it to me was a very long shelved 0-4-2t Athearn steamer bought at a swap meet that has a zamak electrical path. With no other changes to the electrical path, the original mechanism runs like a dream using a similar electronic liquid on the bare zamak. Before it would only run for a 1/4 turn of the driver.
It made me a believer.
Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA
On Jun 6, 2013, at 5:50 AM, "jjleeds40" <jjleeds@...> wrote:
I agree, it is probably the tender trucks. I reworked a Mantua goat that I assembled 30 yrs. ago. Put in a can motor, flywheel NWSL idler gear box & a decoder....Wouldn't run worth a darn. After sitting on the shelf for a couple of years I discovered a conductive grease ( NO-OX-ID A SPECIAL from Sanchem Inc. Disassembled the trucks, polished them, put a SMALL dab of grease on axle ends & all contact points. It ran like a dream & still does after over a year. You can also use this product on the tracks...."A little Dab Will Do Ya"
I got the 2 oz. tub that will last me 3 or 4 lifetimes.
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@> wrote:
As long as you can completely isolate the motor from the frame (use a nylon
screw and some electrical tape) and can sort out the left rail/right rail
thing, you should be able to.
Nathan Rich
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:26 PM, cwvpost1 <pgkdave@> wrote:
I just acquired a Limited Edition Mantua Classic 4-4-2 Atlantic that was
still New In the Box. It is over 20 Years Old. When I tried to Run it on
a test track, it ran erratic starting and stopping and shorting out.
Does anyone have any ideas as to what would be causing the problem and any
suggestion on how to fix it?
Also is there anyway to upgrade this engine to DCC?
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Re: Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have seen before! [3 Attachments]
 ?  ?
?
Guess it isn't a completely fanciful design after all.? These are called "tank cranes".? They were used to move equipment around shop areas. ?I remember that article too, back when.? And I think there was a Southern Pacific one too but I haven't been able to find a picture of it. What is fanciful is the tank about the boiler front, but then again, ?I've seen a picture of a foreign engine with an air tank mounted there too!
?
[Attachment(s) from Sean Naylor included below]
Hi All!
OK.. Had to ?make an offer and buy it from the guy!
I know I have seen this before! If I am not mistaken, it was derived from an article published in either Model
Railroader or MRC.?
It is a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster with a hand made crane boom extending out of it's smoke stack. A completely fanciful design and fatally flawed from its inception, however I am convinced it was published and even a topic in the past either here or on the Tyco forum!
Any thoughts or
memories anyone? ? Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Mystery Custom Mantua 0-4-0 Booster Derek that I know I have seen before!
Hi All!
OK.. Had to ?make an offer and buy it from the guy!
I know I have seen this before! If I am not mistaken, it was derived from an article published in either Model
Railroader or MRC.?
It is a Mantua 0-4-0 Booster with a hand made crane boom extending out of it's smoke stack. A completely fanciful design and fatally flawed from its inception, however I am convinced it was published and even a topic in the past either here or on the Tyco forum!
Any thoughts or
memories anyone? ? Sean
"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!" - Mario Andretti!
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Re: New Non Railroad Development
Sufferin catfish, JJ.? Talk about being a return customer! I hope they don’t see you again. ? Thanks, Skip. Denis
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Re: New Non Railroad Development
Not to worry Denis . Glad to hear that you have been rebuilt [sort of ] ! Amazing stuff Modern Medicine ? Good thing they could jump on this righr away . Nice to hear you're still with us . Henry
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Show quoted text
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "DenisL" <avanti78@...> wrote:
So I finally went to see my doctor for an increasing occurrence of a pain. That evening, I was in the local hospital. Next day, I was in the big cardiac hospital in San Antonio.
Underwent one of those Cardiac Catheterization tests, Doc found the 99% occluded artery, inflated the balloon, which expanded the artery from a mouse hole to a tunnel, then put the stent around the ballon, inflated it, which placed the expanded stent, deflated the balloon, and after looking some more, withdrew the catheter.
The science, engineering, and miniaturization is truly amazing.
Still feel sick and lightheaded though. Hope this goes away.
Sorry for the way-off subject.
Denis
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Re: New Non Railroad Development
No worries mon ami ! Glad you made it out OK ? And really glad those guys reacted so quick ! Henry
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Show quoted text
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "DenisL" <avanti78@...> wrote:
So I finally went to see my doctor for an increasing occurrence of a pain. That evening, I was in the local hospital. Next day, I was in the big cardiac hospital in San Antonio.
Underwent one of those Cardiac Catheterization tests, Doc found the 99% occluded artery, inflated the balloon, which expanded the artery from a mouse hole to a tunnel, then put the stent around the ballon, inflated it, which placed the expanded stent, deflated the balloon, and after looking some more, withdrew the catheter.
The science, engineering, and miniaturization is truly amazing.
Still feel sick and lightheaded though. Hope this goes away.
Sorry for the way-off subject.
Denis
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Re: New Non Railroad Development
Thanks, Guys. I’m not ready for that last station stop, yet. Denis
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john hagen please contact off list.
emmet dene
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--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "John Hagen" <sprinthag@...> wrote:
AMEN!!!
John Hagen
From: yardbirdtrains@... [mailto:yardbirdtrains@...]
On Behalf Of Henry
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2013 8:00 PM
To: yardbirdtrains@...
Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Memorial day ?
Thanks to all of the Vets and all who serve now ! Thanks for your service !
Hoo-Rah !! Henry US Navy 1962-1966 Bird Farms !
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Re: New Non Railroad Development
Hope you are up and back to normal real soon. AMazing what they can do now.
Skip Luke
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Re: New Non Railroad Development
Looks like it was caught in time...Great! You will feel better, had 2 caths & a aorta valve replacement. jerry
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--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "kbkchooch" <kbkchooch@...> wrote:
Wow Denis!
Here's to a speedy recovery!
Karl
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "DenisL" <avanti78@> wrote:
So I finally went to see my doctor for an increasing occurrence of a pain. That evening, I was in the local hospital. Next day, I was in the big cardiac hospital in San Antonio.
Underwent one of those Cardiac Catheterization tests, Doc found the 99% occluded artery, inflated the balloon, which expanded the artery from a mouse hole to a tunnel, then put the stent around the ballon, inflated it, which placed the expanded stent, deflated the balloon, and after looking some more, withdrew the catheter.
The science, engineering, and miniaturization is truly amazing.
Still feel sick and lightheaded though. Hope this goes away.
Sorry for the way-off subject.
Denis
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Re: New Non Railroad Development
The fact you are posting means you are still with us, Denis. That is
better than some of the alternatives. Good show for being smart
enough to get help before things got dire and desperate. Sounds
like a close one, though.
I've had friends who were too stubborn to get help until it was too
late.
Glad to still have you with us.
Chuck Peck
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Show quoted text
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "DenisL" <avanti78@...> wrote:
So I finally went to see my doctor for an increasing occurrence of a pain. That evening, I was in the local hospital. Next day, I was in the big cardiac hospital in San Antonio.
Underwent one of those Cardiac Catheterization tests, Doc found the 99% occluded artery, inflated the balloon, which expanded the artery from a mouse hole to a tunnel, then put the stent around the ballon, inflated it, which placed the expanded stent, deflated the balloon, and after looking some more, withdrew the catheter.
The science, engineering, and miniaturization is truly amazing.
Still feel sick and lightheaded though. Hope this goes away.
Sorry for the way-off subject.
Denis
|
Re: New Non Railroad Development
Wow Denis!
Here's to a speedy recovery!
Karl
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., "DenisL" <avanti78@...> wrote:
So I finally went to see my doctor for an increasing occurrence of a pain. That evening, I was in the local hospital. Next day, I was in the big cardiac hospital in San Antonio.
Underwent one of those Cardiac Catheterization tests, Doc found the 99% occluded artery, inflated the balloon, which expanded the artery from a mouse hole to a tunnel, then put the stent around the ballon, inflated it, which placed the expanded stent, deflated the balloon, and after looking some more, withdrew the catheter.
The science, engineering, and miniaturization is truly amazing.
Still feel sick and lightheaded though. Hope this goes away.
Sorry for the way-off subject.
Denis
|
New Non Railroad Development
So I finally went to see my doctor for an increasing occurrence of a pain. That evening, I was in the local hospital. Next day, I was in the big cardiac hospital in San Antonio.
Underwent one of those Cardiac Catheterization tests, Doc found the 99% occluded artery, inflated the balloon, which expanded the artery from a mouse hole to a tunnel, then put the stent around the ballon, inflated it, which placed the expanded stent, deflated the balloon, and after looking some more, withdrew the catheter.
The science, engineering, and miniaturization is truly amazing.
Still feel sick and lightheaded though. Hope this goes away.
Sorry for the way-off subject.
Denis
|
Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
The earliest versions of the RR 4-4-0's had steel frames and pickup wipers just like the Bowker, but they later changed to a plastic frame with those sprung plungers. To be sure the current doesn't go through the plunger springs, my solution was to solder the ends of a length of stripped NWSL superflex wire to the back of each plunger. There's enough of a pocket behind them to dress the wire so it won't interfere with the plunger movement, which is critical because the springs in them are very light.
I soldered a lug I made from and spare bronze wiper to the center of the length of wire, which is then trapped between the frame and the axle cover by the cover screw. It makes for a solid electrical path from the plunger pins to the bottom cover and drawbar.
Nelson
"My latest project has been working over a group of 6 Rivarossi 4-4-0' s for a gentleman, as well as 3 J. W Bokers. He's decided that he really likes not having to hassle with dogbones, so they are all getting two piece brass tubing drive shafts and can motors. Think at this point I could write a small book on pick problems on these engines, and how to solve them...basicaly the problems, no matter what they act like come down to poor driver pickup. I'm find both the wipers and the little spring plungers just don't act like they are supposed to, and am just modifying them as a matter of course...the improvement in performance is simply amazing."
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Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
Mike,
What is the name of the liquid form that you use? I would like to get some. Thanks.
Richard in Vermont
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Mike Bauers <mwbauers55@...> wrote:
YES !!!
While I've been using more of a liquid form of the stuff, I've been doing the same since the early '70's
Man, does the method work well!
What proved it to me was a very long shelved 0-4-2t Athearn steamer bought at a swap meet that has a zamak electrical path. With no other changes to the electrical path, the original mechanism runs like a dream using a similar electronic liquid on the bare zamak. Before it would only run for a 1/4 turn of the driver.
It made me a believer.
Best to ya...
Mike Bauers
Milwaukee, Wi, USA
On Jun 6, 2013, at 5:50 AM, "jjleeds40" <jjleeds@...> wrote:
I agree, it is probably the tender trucks. I reworked a Mantua goat that I assembled 30 yrs. ago. Put in a can motor, flywheel NWSL idler gear box & a decoder....Wouldn't run worth a darn. After sitting on the shelf for a couple of years I discovered a conductive grease ( NO-OX-ID A SPECIAL from Sanchem Inc. Disassembled the trucks, polished them, put a SMALL dab of grease on axle ends & all contact points. It ran like a dream & still does after over a year. You can also use this product on the tracks...."A little Dab Will Do Ya"
I got the 2 oz. tub that will last me 3 or 4 lifetimes.
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., Nathan Rich <thaddeusthudpucker@> wrote:
As long as you can completely isolate the motor from the frame (use a nylon
screw and some electrical tape) and can sort out the left rail/right rail
thing, you should be able to.
Nathan Rich
On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 2:26 PM, cwvpost1 <pgkdave@> wrote:
I just acquired a Limited Edition Mantua Classic 4-4-2 Atlantic that was
still New In the Box. It is over 20 Years Old. When I tried to Run it on
a test track, it ran erratic starting and stopping and shorting out.
Does anyone have any ideas as to what would be causing the problem and any
suggestion on how to fix it?
Also is there anyway to upgrade this engine to DCC?
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Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
Urban legend??
Don't tell my 0-6-0 that,,,,It ate the 1st decoder when I first insulated the brushes from the motor.
I slid some tape under it and anchored it with a nylon screw, and the 2nd decoder lived! Motor wobbles a little with the nylon screw,,,,but until I can get one of Dan's cans in it,,,it'll do. The moral of the story?
Not all open frame motors can be trusted,,especially 40 year old ones!! Check the motor frame to ground before you waste a decoder (like I did!!)
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Show quoted text
--- In yardbirdtrains@..., john Brazaitis <vytis1952@...> wrote:
Actually, this business of isolating the frame of the motor is a DCC "urban legend" along with the idea of "DCC friendly" turnouts. ?I think it got started because certain popular brands of locomotive, like the old Athearn Blue Box diesels, used a design that grounded the motor brush directly against the frame. ?On those engines it is necessary to prevent contact between the motor and the frame, but actually what you are really doing to make it work is isolating the motor brushes. ???On most conventional open frame style motors, isolating the brushes is a simple operation. ?Generally, one brush, the one picking up from the tender or left hand rail is already isolated.The other brush, picking up from the drivers or r.h. rail, may also already be isolated as it is on most of the bowser steamers with the later motor and some of the MDC larger steam engines. ?Usually a jumper or some other wiring device is used to ground the brush to the motor, and
thru the motor to the frame, etc. ?A little study will show how to interrupt this circuit and you're ready to wire for DCC.??On motors such as the ones used on the Mantua engines, the RH brush is grounded thru the spring that tensions the brush. ?To isolate it, all you have to do is slip a piece of wire insulation over the brush spring where it prevents the brush spring from contacting the brush, and you are good to go.As far as this "DCC friendly" switch business goes, if you study either Mallory or Westcott on how to correctly wire and gap all rail frog turnouts, you won't have any problems. ?It's really fairly easy, the basic rules (which apply the DC wiring as well) are gap behind the frog and provide power from the point end, not the frog end, you'll be ok. ?Some turnouts such as the older Shinohara use a contact system that causes shorts in DCC, but it's because of the design of the contacts to the point rails, not the frog wiring.JBB
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Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
Yup, I clean forgot about that one!. I
just put a dab of oil on mine an re-do the cleaning polishing of
that joint if/when I take the truck off or the engine start to
clown up on me (act funny). Good call.
What's happ'n'n on Atlanta?
Tom Knowles
NOTE NEW ADDRESS: tomk@...
On 6/5/2013 8:18 PM, john Brazaitis wrote:
?
| If I was a
betting man, I'd put my money on oxidized tender
bolsters. ?Every Mantua 4-4-2 I've worked over had
this problem. ?For some reason the lot of pot
metal used for the tender floors picks up the
usual Mantua carbonized black junk very quickly.
?The first one I worked on about drove me nuts
till I figured it out. ?When clean, they'll run
like a dream, then gradually get worse and final
run in stops and starts, just like you're
experiencing. ?Could be something else of course,
but that's what I'd check first. ?Try polishing
them and the tender truck bolsters up. ?Mantua put
a copper washer on some of them to try to help
with this problem, but it doesn't do much good. ?A
tiny amount of contact cleaner will keep them
working properly for a longer period of time, but
eventually you'll be back to cleaning the same
area. ?
??The real long term fix as already has been
mentioned is to equip the tender trucks with
wipers and hard wire them to the tender frame.
?I think the easiest way to do this would be to
solder spring bronze wire to the tender trucks.
?Have done that this year on a whole bunch of
General trucks with very good results.. If you
need some spring wire, contact me off list...it
doesn't take much
??I'd also check to make sure all the wheels
of all your tender trucks are in contact with
the rail. ?This loco has some issues with that,
esp. depending on what Mantua truck was used.
?The one that should be there and seems to work
best is the "Reading" style truck, but various
trucks were substituted depending on what was on
hand during assembly, and who did what after the
engine was sold.
??All the 4-4-2 s I've worked on had a nice
can motor and gear box. ?Don't know if they were
all that way, but those ran very nicely once
contact problems were resolved, and should
convert to DCC easily. ?Hardest part of the DCC
conversion will be wiring up those nifty
operating marker lampas. ?Haven't done one yet,
but think you'll need to add a resistor to drop
track voltage down on them.
??Finally, thanks for the kind words, Vic!
?Here I thought I was sneaking quietly onto
Ebay...you just can't get nothing past some
people (lol).
??My latest project has been working over a
group of 6 Rivarossi 4-4-0' s for a gentleman,
as well as 3 J. W Bokers. ?He's decided that he
really likes not having to hassle with dogbones,
so they are all getting two piece brass tubing
drive shafts and can motors. ?Think at this
point I could write a small book on pick
problems on these engines, and how to solve
them...basicaly the problems, no matter what
they act like come down to poor driver pickup.
?I'm find both the wipers and the little spring
plungers just don't act like they are supposed
to, and am just modifying them as a matter of
course...the improvement in performance is
simply amazing.
Continuing on my present HO layout, but have
just bough a lot of really old O gauge Truscale
tack from the New Orleans area. ?This stuff came
out of a club down there and is old enough that
there is a high probability that Frank Ellision
among others ran stuff on it. ?Got in mind a
small O scale loop arounf the workshop to test
and play with as well as some On30 trackwork,
that will also double as ?an HO repair test
loop, so I don't have to keep running from the
bench to the layout to test stuff.
??Finally got a pair of beautiful Tenoshodo
GN articulated locomotives from a friend to
clean up and sell. ?They all have rotten foam,
but I won't know how bad till I get into them.
?If any of you are looking for one of these,
drop me a line...maybe we can work a deal that
leaves everybody happy.
??Apart from that we ain't been blown or
washed away yet down here in the Ozarks, but
it's been a close thing a time or two. ?Any of
you guys going to be at Atlanta next
month...maybe I'll run into you.
JBB
??
|
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Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
| Actually, this business of isolating the frame of the motor is a DCC "urban legend" along with the idea of "DCC friendly" turnouts. ?I think it got started because certain popular brands of locomotive, like the old Athearn Blue Box diesels, used a design that grounded the motor brush directly against the frame. ?On those engines it is necessary to prevent contact between the motor and the frame, but actually what you are really doing to make it work is isolating the motor brushes. ? ??On most conventional open frame style motors, isolating the brushes is a simple operation. ?Generally, one brush, the one picking up from the tender or left hand rail is already isolated. The other brush, picking up from the drivers or r.h. rail, may also already be isolated as it is on most of the bowser steamers with the later motor and some of the MDC larger
steam engines. ?Usually a jumper or some other wiring device is used to ground the brush to the motor, and thru the motor to the frame, etc. ?A little study will show how to interrupt this circuit and you're ready to wire for DCC. ??On motors such as the ones used on the Mantua engines, the RH brush is grounded thru the spring that tensions the brush. ?To isolate it, all you have to do is slip a piece of wire insulation over the brush spring where it prevents the brush spring from contacting the brush, and you are good to go. As far as this "DCC friendly" switch business goes, if you study either Mallory or Westcott on how to correctly wire and gap all rail frog turnouts, you won't have any problems. ?It's really fairly easy, the basic rules (which apply the DC wiring as well) are gap behind the frog and provide power from the point end, not the frog end, you'll be ok. ?Some turnouts such as the older Shinohara use a contact
system that causes shorts in DCC, but it's because of the design of the contacts to the point rails, not the frog wiring. JBB
|
|
Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
Hi John, I considered going to Atalanta this year for the National. ?(I just went to Atlanta last weekend :o) and visited family, and the Southeastern Railway Museum) ? However, my budget maker only allows me one convention per year and I REALLY REALLY want to go to the MER convention in Rockville Md. this fall. ?Howard Zane's model railroad will be on the home layout tour and there will some really good guest clinicians and speakers, including Tony Koester. ?Since I have already seen most of the home layouts in the Atalanta area already and have been to several Nationals, I decided to forgo it. ?However, a friend wants me to go with him for the Train Show, just Friday and Saturday. ?I am considering this, but usually, I spend some pretty good cash at these as well and I need to buy a bunch of Tortoises for my under construction layout. ?If I do go, I will definitely send you an email and we can meet up and have dinner or something? Regards,?Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC
To: yardbirdtrains@... From: vytis1952@... Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 18:18:04 -0700 Subject: [yardbirdtrains] Re: Mantua Classic Lindbergh Special 4-4-2
?
| If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on oxidized tender bolsters. ?Every Mantua 4-4-2 I've worked over had this problem. ?For some reason the lot of pot metal used for the tender floors picks up the usual Mantua carbonized black junk very quickly. ?The first one I worked on about drove me nuts till I figured it out. ?When clean, they'll run like a dream, then gradually get worse and final run in stops and starts, just like you're experiencing. ?Could be something else of course, but that's what I'd check first. ?Try polishing them and the tender truck bolsters up. ?Mantua put a copper washer on some of them to try to help with this problem, but it doesn't do much good. ?A tiny amount of contact cleaner will keep them working properly for a longer period of time, but eventually you'll be back to cleaning the same area. ? ??The real long term
fix as already has been mentioned is to equip the tender trucks with wipers and hard wire them to the tender frame. ?I think the easiest way to do this would be to solder spring bronze wire to the tender trucks. ?Have done that this year on a whole bunch of General trucks with very good results.. If you need some spring wire, contact me off list...it doesn't take much ??I'd also check to make sure all the wheels of all your tender trucks are in contact with the rail. ?This loco has some issues with that, esp. depending on what Mantua truck was used. ?The one that should be there and seems to work best is the "Reading" style truck, but various trucks were substituted depending on what was on hand during assembly, and who did what after the engine was sold. ??All the 4-4-2 s I've worked on had a nice can motor and gear box. ?Don't know if they were all that way, but those ran very nicely once contact problems were resolved,
and should convert to DCC easily. ?Hardest part of the DCC conversion will be wiring up those nifty operating marker lampas. ?Haven't done one yet, but think you'll need to add a resistor to drop track voltage down on them. ??Finally, thanks for the kind words, Vic! ?Here I thought I was sneaking quietly onto Ebay...you just can't get nothing past some people (lol). ??My latest project has been working over a group of 6 Rivarossi 4-4-0' s for a gentleman, as well as 3 J. W Bokers. ?He's decided that he really likes not having to hassle with dogbones, so they are all getting two piece brass tubing drive shafts and can motors. ?Think at this point I could write a small book on pick problems on these engines, and how to solve them...basicaly the problems, no matter what they act like come down to poor driver pickup. ?I'm find both the wipers and the little spring plungers just don't act like they are supposed to, and am just
modifying them as a matter of course...the improvement in performance is simply amazing. Continuing on my present HO layout, but have just bough a lot of really old O gauge Truscale tack from the New Orleans area. ?This stuff came out of a club down there and is old enough that there is a high probability that Frank Ellision among others ran stuff on it. ?Got in mind a small O scale loop arounf the workshop to test and play with as well as some On30 trackwork, that will also double as ?an HO repair test loop, so I don't have to keep running from the bench to the layout to test stuff.
??Finally got a pair of beautiful Tenoshodo GN articulated locomotives from a friend to clean up and sell. ?They all have rotten foam, but I won't know how bad till I get into them. ?If any of you are looking for one of these, drop me a line...maybe we can work a deal that leaves everybody
happy. ??Apart from that we ain't been blown or washed away yet down here in the Ozarks, but it's been a close thing a time or two. ?Any of you guys going to be at Atlanta next month...maybe I'll run into you. JBB ?? |
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