I think it wouldn’t be easy to get from the pair of operators a timbre missing in the total sound of the patch. But maybe additional tweaking of the other four operators in algorithm structure simulating 4OP patch, in conjunction with those two operators can make it…

I'm now meditating about the other interesting challenge - to imitate 6OP sounds on 4OP synth, at least on those able to layer two patches… :-) It would be difficult if not impossible to approximate non existing algorithms and key scaling, different envelopes…

Daniel Forró

On Jun 15, 2021, at 22:56, Nicole Massey <nyyki@...> wrote:

What I've always wondered is if there's a way to create those additional
waveforms using a carrier/modulator pair so straight sine wave instruments
could get in the neighborhood.

Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martin
Tarenskeen
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 6:32 AM
To: Jeremy Bernstein <jeremy.d.bernstein@...>
Cc: YamahaDX <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] The 4OP to DX7 Conversion Project



On Tue, 15 Jun 2021, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:

Thanks so much for your work on this!

A naive question: how, if at all, have you handled the additional

waveforms on the TX81Z/DX11?

Hi,

The additional waveforms that were introduced with the TX81Z are ignored. 
In general not everyting could be converted faithfully. There are quite some
bigger and smaller differences between the DX7 and the 4-op FM family of
synths. But I hereby invite everyone to do something useful and interesting
with the 2 unused operators that are left :-)

-- 

MT

On Jun 15, 2021, at 22:56, Nicole Massey <nyyki@...> wrote:

What I've always wondered is if there's a way to create those additional
waveforms using a carrier/modulator pair so straight sine wave instruments
could get in the neighborhood.

Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martin
Tarenskeen
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2021 6:32 AM
To: Jeremy Bernstein <jeremy.d.bernstein@...>
Cc: YamahaDX <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] The 4OP to DX7 Conversion Project



On Tue, 15 Jun 2021, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:

Thanks so much for your work on this!

A naive question: how, if at all, have you handled the additional

waveforms on the TX81Z/DX11?

Hi,

The additional waveforms that were introduced with the TX81Z are ignored.
In general not everyting could be converted faithfully. There are quite some
bigger and smaller differences between the DX7 and the 4-op FM family of
synths. But I hereby invite everyone to do something useful and interesting
with the 2 unused operators that are left :-)

--

MT

Thanks so much for your work on this!

A naive question: how, if at all, have you handled the additional

Hi,

Many of you may be familiar with one or more of my projects like
DXconvert, The Reface DX Legacy Project (RDLP), or - from the early Atari
ST days - YSEDITOR. These projects are still going. For example: Recently
I released an update of DXconvert with greatly improved Korg DS8/707 data
import.

In all these years one of the frequently asked questions was: Can I load
patches from 4-operator FM synths like DX100, TX81Z, FB01, or V50 in my
DX7 (or compatible) synthesizer? The short answer has been "No you can't".
The longer answer "Yes you can, but the data need to be converted first
using DXconvert".

Today I am proud to present my latest project, powered by DXconvert: "The
4OP to DX7 Conversion Project". It is the easiest answer to the above
question. I have converted a huge number of SysEx patches and banks from
numerous 4-operator (and some 2-operator) FM synths and they are now
available and ready to use on my new website in the form of DX7 and DX7II
compatible SysEx files. These SysEx data are accepted not only by DX7 and
DX7II but by many other compatible FM synths, modules, and VST plugins.

Using additional software these files could even be converted to SY/TG77,
SY99, and even Montage file format.

You can find the project here:

????

(Manually enter the address in your browser if redirection fails.)

Feedback, comments, bugreports, and donations are welcome :-)
Enjoy!

Martin Tarenskeen

On Jun 15, 2021, at 17:36, Martin Tarenskeen <m.tarenskeen@...> wrote:

Hi,

Many of you may be familiar with one or more of my projects like DXconvert, The Reface DX Legacy Project (RDLP), or - from the early Atari ST days - YSEDITOR. These projects are still going. For example: Recently I released an update of DXconvert with greatly improved Korg DS8/707 data import.

In all these years one of the frequently asked questions was: Can I load patches from 4-operator FM synths like DX100, TX81Z, FB01, or V50 in my DX7 (or compatible) synthesizer? The short answer has been "No you can't". The longer answer "Yes you can, but the data need to be converted first using DXconvert".

Today I am proud to present my latest project, powered by DXconvert: "The 4OP to DX7 Conversion Project". It is the easiest answer to the above question. I have converted a huge number of SysEx patches and banks from numerous 4-operator (and some 2-operator) FM synths and they are now available and ready to use on my new website in the form of DX7 and DX7II compatible SysEx files. These SysEx data are accepted not only by DX7 and DX7II but by many other compatible FM synths, modules, and VST plugins.

Using additional software these files could even be converted to SY/TG77, SY99, and even Montage file format.

You can find the project here:



(Manually enter the address in your browser if redirection fails.)

Feedback, comments, bugreports, and donations are welcome :-)
Enjoy!

Martin Tarenskeen

On May 28, 2021, at 11:26, LarryS <vision1@...> wrote:

a-HA!
I know what you're talking about. ?That's "next note" rotation, isn't it?
(you had me going there for a minute... I was worrying about my memory... :-)

It bounces one to the next on each successive note. ?And if a guy was to hook up, say, 5 of them, it would rotate through 5 modules instead of just two.
That's very cool and musically useful, but that's not even-odd.

If we look at a Major scale, we see that scale notes 1, 2, and 3 are a whole step apart, thus are the same (even or odd, let's say even). ?But scale note 4 is only a half-step away and is then odd. ?And that means 4, 5, 6, and 7 are odd. ?But the b7 (of say, the I7 chord) is even again as is the root. ?So the sound is mixed based on harmony, not succession.

Unless you play whole-tone scales a lot, it skips around. ?It's entirely "predictable" but it happens in a way that's nearly impossible to predict while you're playing.

And yes, they blend great with FM, and yes, I gave up on programming almost everything except by a computer based editor. ?No more screen and buttons for me.

L.


-----Original Message-----
From: Nicole Massey [mailto:nyyki@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 8:17 PM
To: [email protected]; vision1@...
Subject: RE: [YamahaDX] FS: TX802 + RAM5

It's sort of even/odd, but it's dependent in how many modules in the chain link -- two will do the even/odd thing, but it can get a lot more interesting if you have more involved. But programming them is a beast, because they've got a lot of modular style routings. (plus 14 stage envelopes) I love the way they blend with FM though.

Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of LarryS
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 7:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] FS: TX802 + RAM5

I have a stack of K1000 modules and never knew this.
Knew they had several modes of rollover and midi, but never noticed they had even-odd.
Well, that oughta tie up another bunch of playing around time.
Who said the MODULAR guys do all the tweaking, eh?

L.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nicole Massey [mailto:nyyki@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2021 5:38 PM
To: [email protected]; vision1@...
Subject: RE: [YamahaDX] FS: TX802 + RAM5

Actually, the 1000 series by Kurzweil can do this too, though it can get ?a lot more granular with it because it can do slightly different sounds on each note of the octave, assuming you're up for programming that much. But it seems to be from a particular time in synth design.

Sent from my HAL 9000 in transit to Jupiter

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of LarryS
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2021 6:49 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [YamahaDX] FS: TX802 + RAM5

Just an endorsement for the TX802, FWIW.

I bought a new one in 1988. ?Still got it.

I bought a second one in 1992. ?Still got it.

The TX802 has a note number response setting of ‘even’ or ‘odd’. ?When running two units in even/odd mode, the difference is amazing and satisfying. ?It’s not layering like any other keyboard does. ?It’s “interleaving” at a note/chord level and it’s amazingly musical.

Often layering is with some completely disparate sounds (string-piano, for example), which is fine and it works, but where the TX802 really shines for me is with close-but-not-quite-the-same patches played in even/odd mode. ?Even the same patch detuned on one unit can create some stunning highlights.

Don’t know if any other modules or workstations do such a thing. ?I would think by now it would be commonplace but have heard no one crow about it on any other feature review. ?It may have stopped with the TX802 – dunno.

So that’s like 6U of rack space that is basically a permanent fixture in my rig.



L.



From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bruce Wahler via
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [YamahaDX] FS: TX802 + RAM5



Hi All,

I've been paring down my gear lately, and thought I'd pass these items by the list before going to eBay or Reverb.

* Yamaha TX802 -- I have THREE of these synths. ?I'm keeping one for my own use. ?This one is in fully working condition. ?Physical condition is about 8.5/10 by my picky standards: ?minimal scratches/nicks on front, back, top, and bottom; menu pullouts are still in place and working; the only major issue is that the original owner shortened the power cord to about 1 ft (0,3m). ?I don't know the age of the battery: ?I'll replace it before the final sale, just to be safe. ?Looking to get $400 + shipping. ?I will ship almost anywhere

* Yamaha TX802 -- I bought this one as a spare/parts. ?It comes up with a partially corrupt display, and fails the self-test with "TEST 01 - RAM IC8 Error!" ?Scrolling through the self-tests and other menus, it seems like most of the functionality is OK; but the failing RAM causes corrupt display characters and references to sounds in the (non-loaded) memory cartridge. ?I don't know if this is an easy fix, or something more involved. ?Physical condition is 8/10 -- except the pullout menus are gone. ?I'd like to get $175 + shipping; offers will be considered.

* Yamaha RAM5 -- genuine item, with original box. ?I have a PDF of the brief owners' manual. ?I've seen two different versions of a 'AM5' online lately: ?this is the one with a Multi-Bank Mode switch on the front, and three more switches on the top for manual bank selection and memory protect. ?Everything works, including Multi-Bank Mode with a TX802. ?Physical condition is a 9/10. ?I'd like to get $75 + shipping.


Please email me directly with questions.

--
Regards,

-BW

Bruce Wahler
?
bw@... <mailto:bw@...>

978.597.7008

________________________________

PLEASE NOTE: ?The AshbySolutions.com domain will be closed soon. ?Please use the new (wahler.us) email for all future correspondence. ?Thank you for your understanding.

On May 26, 2021, at 20:49, LarryS <vision1@...> wrote:

Just an endorsement for the TX802, FWIW.

I bought a new one in 1988.? Still got it.

I bought a second one in 1992.? Still got it.

The TX802 has a note number response setting of ‘even’ or ‘odd’.? When running two units in even/odd mode, the difference is amazing and satisfying.? It’s not layering like any other keyboard does.? It’s “interleaving” at a note/chord level and it’s amazingly musical.

Often layering is with some completely disparate sounds (string-piano, for example), which is fine and it works, but where the TX802 really shines for me is with close-but-not-quite-the-same patches played in even/odd mode.? Even the same patch detuned on one unit can create some stunning highlights.

Don’t know if any other modules or workstations do such a thing.? I would think by now it would be commonplace but have heard no one crow about it on any other feature review.? It may have stopped with the TX802 – dunno.

So that’s like 6U of rack space that is basically a permanent fixture in my rig.

?

L.

?

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bruce Wahler via
Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [YamahaDX] FS: TX802 + RAM5

?

Hi All,

I've been paring down my gear lately, and thought I'd pass these items by the list before going to eBay or Reverb.

• Yamaha TX802 -- I have THREE of these synths.? I'm keeping one for my own use.? This one is in fully working condition.? Physical condition is about 8.5/10 by my picky standards:? minimal scratches/nicks on front, back, top, and bottom; menu pullouts are still in place and working; the only major issue is that the original owner shortened the power cord to about 1 ft (0,3m).? I don't know the age of the battery:? I'll replace it before the final sale, just to be safe.? Looking to get $400 + shipping.? I will ship almost anywhere

• Yamaha TX802 -- I bought this one as a spare/parts.? It comes up with a partially corrupt display, and fails the self-test with "TEST 01 - RAM IC8 Error!"? Scrolling through the self-tests and other menus, it seems like most of the functionality is OK; but the failing RAM causes corrupt display characters and references to sounds in the (non-loaded) memory cartridge.? I don't know if this is an easy fix, or something more involved.? Physical condition is 8/10 -- except the pullout menus are gone.? I'd like to get $175 + shipping; offers will be considered.

• Yamaha RAM5 -- genuine item, with original box.? I have a PDF of the brief owners' manual.? I've seen two different versions of a 'AM5' online lately:? this is the one with a Multi-Bank Mode switch on the front, and three more switches on the top for manual bank selection and memory protect.? Everything works, including Multi-Bank Mode with a TX802.? Physical condition is a 9/10.? I'd like to get $75 + shipping.

Please email me directly with questions.

--
Regards,

-BW

Bruce Wahler
?
bw@...

978.597.7008

---

PLEASE NOTE: ?The domain will be closed soon. ?Please use the new () email for all future correspondence. ?Thank you for your understanding.
?
?

?

Hi All,

I've been paring down my gear lately, and thought I'd pass these items by the list before going to eBay or Reverb.

• Yamaha TX802 -- I have THREE of these synths.? I'm keeping one for my own use.? This one is in fully working condition.? Physical condition is about 8.5/10 by my picky standards:? minimal scratches/nicks on front, back, top, and bottom; menu pullouts are still in place and working; the only major issue is that the original owner shortened the power cord to about 1 ft (0,3m).? I don't know the age of the battery:? I'll replace it before the final sale, just to be safe.? Looking to get $400 + shipping.? I will ship almost anywhere

• Yamaha TX802 -- I bought this one as a spare/parts.? It comes up with a partially corrupt display, and fails the self-test with "TEST 01 - RAM IC8 Error!"? Scrolling through the self-tests and other menus, it seems like most of the functionality is OK; but the failing RAM causes corrupt display characters and references to sounds in the (non-loaded) memory cartridge.? I don't know if this is an easy fix, or something more involved.? Physical condition is 8/10 -- except the pullout menus are gone.? I'd like to get $175 + shipping; offers will be considered.

• Yamaha RAM5 -- genuine item, with original box.? I have a PDF of the brief owners' manual.? I've seen two different versions of a 'AM5' online lately:? this is the one with a Multi-Bank Mode switch on the front, and three more switches on the top for manual bank selection and memory protect.? Everything works, including Multi-Bank Mode with a TX802.? Physical condition is a 9/10.? I'd like to get $75 + shipping.