|
Post how to avoid "Hot Switching"
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:17 PM Dan N5TM < n5tm@...> wrote: Elecraft states that the most common cause of burned contacts is hot switching.? I have observed that WSJTX will hijack the remote when you bring up a new instance.? My best guess would be:? a second operator hijacked the remote without intending to do so, just by opening or changing a setting on WSJTX? This could have happened while the first operator was Key down on FT8, likely causing a hot switch of the contacts. ? Dan n5tm ? ? What caused the burned relay contacts and the overheated coil?? Not running MTUNE or not running MTUNE in low power? or not waiting a few seconds for the amp to follow the K3 when changing bands?
|
Joe, ? The problem is systemic with WSJTX CAT.? The software will change the frequency to match what you may have selected, and it does this without asking first.? As an example if you simply change the mode from FT4 to FT8, WSJTX will immediately move the frequency to the FT8 frequency.? It is possible that you could force a band change without intending to do so, just by clicking the wrong button or dropdown on WSJTX.? I have also observed WSJTX sending out ¡°hijack¡± commands when you first launch the program. ? As my initial email stated, if this happens when someone else is running FT8 and in a TX sequence, you are likely to have a hot switch occurrence. ? Ideas on how to avoid this: - Never run the amp when operating FT8/4 or any other digital mode which keys the transmitter for a long time period.
- Do not run CAT with WSJTX, instead, only use VOX to key the remote.
- Implement software or hardware lockout on the amp, so that a hot switch cannot occur.? (Don N4HH is looking into this.)
? Points 1 and 2 would require full compliance by all users of digital modes on w7dxx, and even so, there could still be an inadvertent hot switch through someone forgetting to turn off CAT, or failing to notice the amp was still enabled. Never running the amp with digital modes is still not completely failsafe, as Elecraft warns, even 100W hot switched can damage the contacts. ? Dan n5tm ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Joe KI5QZW Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 10:33 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp ? Post how to avoid "Hot Switching" ? On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:17 PM Dan N5TM <n5tm@...> wrote: Elecraft states that the most common cause of burned contacts is hot switching.? I have observed that WSJTX will hijack the remote when you bring up a new instance.? My best guess would be:? a second operator hijacked the remote without intending to do so, just by opening or changing a setting on WSJTX? This could have happened while the first operator was Key down on FT8, likely causing a hot switch of the contacts. ? Dan n5tm ? ? What caused the burned relay contacts and the overheated coil?? Not running MTUNE or not running MTUNE in low power? or not waiting a few seconds for the amp to follow the K3 when changing bands?
|
A few thoughts for the group's consideration:
The scenario that Dan has cited is, unfortunately, very possible and likely.
Re:? #3? - I have been unable to find an "already included in software" or "in the current hardware" solution that would lock out any change in Xmit parameters - band, power, etc. - if someone hijacks when the remote is already in xmit - and - in particular using an audio based digital mode - for example FT8.? In the contesting world of SO2X (single op, 2 xmtrs) there are lockout safeguards available both in "some" contesting software as well as in "some" hardware.? Such that if you are xmitting on one radio the second radio is inhibited from xmitting.? And, yes - there is an "inhibit" mode associated with the KPA1500 but it looks like it only is useful under very specific circumstances and ours does not "seem" to apply.? I'm exploring this but don't have a solution - - - yet.
Depending on folks to be aware of, and actually do the "right" thing is usually not effective - hey, we all make mistakes!
I don't know what Keith will do or what decision he will make on this issue.
But - IF you are going to use an audio based digital mode - like most folks favorite - FT8,? my advice would be:
1.? Make sure your digital software is NOT running when you log in to the remote - yes, yes,? I know, I know - but mine is always only set to decode and not transmit, etc., etc., - yah - right - sure!
2.? When you log on to the remote - make sure that someone is not already using the remote and transmitting.
3.? Make sure that the amplifier is in STBY when you do use FT8 -
NOTE:? Once again, we are trying to have the drive level to automatically set at 100 watts when the amp is in STBY and 27 watts when the amp is in OP.? This has worked in the past but with intermittent switching problems.? Finger's crossed that this holds - this time!
FYI - the KPA1500 is back and currently online and operational.? While there are few more tweaks to deal with - - - - we're back :))?? -- Don N4HH
On Friday, October 15, 2021, 02:49:02 PM EDT, Dan N5TM <n5tm@...> wrote:
Joe, ? The problem is systemic with WSJTX CAT.? The software will change the frequency to match what you may have selected, and it does this without asking first.? As an example if you simply change the mode from FT4 to FT8, WSJTX will immediately move the frequency to the FT8 frequency.? It is possible that you could force a band change without intending to do so, just by clicking the wrong button or dropdown on WSJTX.? I have also observed WSJTX sending out ¡°hijack¡± commands when you first launch the program. ? As my initial email stated, if this happens when someone else is running FT8 and in a TX sequence, you are likely to have a hot switch occurrence. ? Ideas on how to avoid this: - Never run the amp when operating FT8/4 or any other digital mode which keys the transmitter for a long time period.
- Do not run CAT with WSJTX, instead, only use VOX to key the remote.
- Implement software or hardware lockout on the amp, so that a hot switch cannot occur.? (Don N4HH is looking into this.)
? Points 1 and 2 would require full compliance by all users of digital modes on w7dxx, and even so, there could still be an inadvertent hot switch through someone forgetting to turn off CAT, or failing to notice the amp was still enabled. Never running the amp with digital modes is still not completely failsafe, as Elecraft warns, even 100W hot switched can damage the contacts. ? Dan n5tm ?
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Joe KI5QZW Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 10:33 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp ? Post how to avoid "Hot Switching" ? On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:17 PM Dan N5TM <n5tm@...> wrote: Elecraft states that the most common cause of burned contacts is hot switching.? I have observed that WSJTX will hijack the remote when you bring up a new instance.? My best guess would be:? a second operator hijacked the remote without intending to do so, just by opening or changing a setting on WSJTX? This could have happened while the first operator was Key down on FT8, likely causing a hot switch of the contacts. ? Dan n5tm ? ? What caused the burned relay contacts and the overheated coil?? Not running MTUNE or not running MTUNE in low power? or not waiting a few seconds for the amp to follow the K3 when changing bands?
|
Simple. Use only 30w on digital modes.? Problem solved.? ?It is beyond me why anyone (yes anyone) needs 100w.? You will be an alligator station. There is nothing to be proud of getting a stronger report, you should be embarrassed to get a stronger report.? Never, ever use 100w on FT8/FT4.
73
Dale N3BNA
On Friday, October 15, 2021, 05:00:29 PM EDT, Don Nesbitt via groups.io <n4hh@...> wrote:
A few thoughts for the group's consideration:
The scenario that Dan has cited is, unfortunately, very possible and likely.
Re:? #3? - I have been unable to find an "already included in software" or "in the current hardware" solution that would lock out any change in Xmit parameters - band, power, etc. - if someone hijacks when the remote is already in xmit - and - in particular using an audio based digital mode - for example FT8.? In the contesting world of SO2X (single op, 2 xmtrs) there are lockout safeguards available both in "some" contesting software as well as in "some" hardware.? Such that if you are xmitting on one radio the second radio is inhibited from xmitting.? And, yes - there is an "inhibit" mode associated with the KPA1500 but it looks like it only is useful under very specific circumstances and ours does not "seem" to apply.? I'm exploring this but don't have a solution - - - yet.
Depending on folks to be aware of, and actually do the "right" thing is usually not effective - hey, we all make mistakes!
I don't know what Keith will do or what decision he will make on this issue.
But - IF you are going to use an audio based digital mode - like most folks favorite - FT8,? my advice would be:
1.? Make sure your digital software is NOT running when you log in to the remote - yes, yes,? I know, I know - but mine is always only set to decode and not transmit, etc., etc., - yah - right - sure!
2.? When you log on to the remote - make sure that someone is not already using the remote and transmitting.
3.? Make sure that the amplifier is in STBY when you do use FT8 -
NOTE:? Once again, we are trying to have the drive level to automatically set at 100 watts when the amp is in STBY and 27 watts when the amp is in OP.? This has worked in the past but with intermittent switching problems.? Finger's crossed that this holds - this time!
FYI - the KPA1500 is back and currently online and operational.? While there are few more tweaks to deal with - - - - we're back :))?? -- Don N4HH
On Friday, October 15, 2021, 02:49:02 PM EDT, Dan N5TM <n5tm@...> wrote:
Joe, ? The problem is systemic with WSJTX CAT.? The software will change the frequency to match what you may have selected, and it does this without asking first.? As an example if you simply change the mode from FT4 to FT8, WSJTX will immediately move the frequency to the FT8 frequency.? It is possible that you could force a band change without intending to do so, just by clicking the wrong button or dropdown on WSJTX.? I have also observed WSJTX sending out ¡°hijack¡± commands when you first launch the program. ? As my initial email stated, if this happens when someone else is running FT8 and in a TX sequence, you are likely to have a hot switch occurrence. ? Ideas on how to avoid this: - Never run the amp when operating FT8/4 or any other digital mode which keys the transmitter for a long time period.
- Do not run CAT with WSJTX, instead, only use VOX to key the remote.
- Implement software or hardware lockout on the amp, so that a hot switch cannot occur.? (Don N4HH is looking into this.)
? Points 1 and 2 would require full compliance by all users of digital modes on w7dxx, and even so, there could still be an inadvertent hot switch through someone forgetting to turn off CAT, or failing to notice the amp was still enabled. Never running the amp with digital modes is still not completely failsafe, as Elecraft warns, even 100W hot switched can damage the contacts. ? Dan n5tm ?
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Joe KI5QZW Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 10:33 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp ? Post how to avoid "Hot Switching" ? On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:17 PM Dan N5TM <n5tm@...> wrote: Elecraft states that the most common cause of burned contacts is hot switching.? I have observed that WSJTX will hijack the remote when you bring up a new instance.? My best guess would be:? a second operator hijacked the remote without intending to do so, just by opening or changing a setting on WSJTX? This could have happened while the first operator was Key down on FT8, likely causing a hot switch of the contacts. ? Dan n5tm ? ? What caused the burned relay contacts and the overheated coil?? Not running MTUNE or not running MTUNE in low power? or not waiting a few seconds for the amp to follow the K3 when changing bands?
|
Agree 100 percent ? In CA people use 1500W Ridiculous and distort the whole frequency ? Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX ? "Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor" 'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.' ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of N3BNA - Dale
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 2:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp? Simple. Use only 30w on digital modes.? Problem solved.? ?It is beyond me why anyone (yes anyone) needs 100w.? You will be an alligator station. There is nothing to be proud of getting a stronger report, you should be embarrassed to get a stronger report.? Never, ever use 100w on FT8/FT4. On Friday, October 15, 2021, 05:00:29 PM EDT, Don Nesbitt via groups.io <n4hh@...> wrote: A few thoughts for the group's consideration: The scenario that Dan has cited is, unfortunately, very possible and likely. Re:? #3? - I have been unable to find an "already included in software" or "in the current hardware" solution that would lock out any change in Xmit parameters - band, power, etc. - if someone hijacks when the remote is already in xmit - and - in particular using an audio based digital mode - for example FT8.? In the contesting world of SO2X (single op, 2 xmtrs) there are lockout safeguards available both in "some" contesting software as well as in "some" hardware.? Such that if you are xmitting on one radio the second radio is inhibited from xmitting.? And, yes - there is an "inhibit" mode associated with the KPA1500 but it looks like it only is useful under very specific circumstances and ours does not "seem" to apply.? I'm exploring this but don't have a solution - - - yet. Depending on folks to be aware of, and actually do the "right" thing is usually not effective - hey, we all make mistakes! I don't know what Keith will do or what decision he will make on this issue. But - IF you are going to use an audio based digital mode - like most folks favorite - FT8,? my advice would be: 1.? Make sure your digital software is NOT running when you log in to the remote - yes, yes,? I know, I know - but mine is always only set to decode and not transmit, etc., etc., - yah - right - sure! 2.? When you log on to the remote - make sure that someone is not already using the remote and transmitting. 3.? Make sure that the amplifier is in STBY when you do use FT8 - NOTE:? Once again, we are trying to have the drive level to automatically set at 100 watts when the amp is in STBY and 27 watts when the amp is in OP.? This has worked in the past but with intermittent switching problems.? Finger's crossed that this holds - this time! FYI - the KPA1500 is back and currently online and operational.? While there are few more tweaks to deal with - - - - we're back :))?? -- Don N4HH On Friday, October 15, 2021, 02:49:02 PM EDT, Dan N5TM <n5tm@...> wrote: Joe, ? The problem is systemic with WSJTX CAT.? The software will change the frequency to match what you may have selected, and it does this without asking first.? As an example if you simply change the mode from FT4 to FT8, WSJTX will immediately move the frequency to the FT8 frequency.? It is possible that you could force a band change without intending to do so, just by clicking the wrong button or dropdown on WSJTX.? I have also observed WSJTX sending out ¡°hijack¡± commands when you first launch the program. ? As my initial email stated, if this happens when someone else is running FT8 and in a TX sequence, you are likely to have a hot switch occurrence. ? Ideas on how to avoid this: - Never run the amp when operating FT8/4 or any other digital mode which keys the transmitter for a long time period.
- Do not run CAT with WSJTX, instead, only use VOX to key the remote.
- Implement software or hardware lockout on the amp, so that a hot switch cannot occur.? (Don N4HH is looking into this.)
? Points 1 and 2 would require full compliance by all users of digital modes on w7dxx, and even so, there could still be an inadvertent hot switch through someone forgetting to turn off CAT, or failing to notice the amp was still enabled. Never running the amp with digital modes is still not completely failsafe, as Elecraft warns, even 100W hot switched can damage the contacts. ? Dan n5tm ? ? Post how to avoid "Hot Switching" ? On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:17 PM Dan N5TM <n5tm@...> wrote: Elecraft states that the most common cause of burned contacts is hot switching.? I have observed that WSJTX will hijack the remote when you bring up a new instance.? My best guess would be:? a second operator hijacked the remote without intending to do so, just by opening or changing a setting on WSJTX? This could have happened while the first operator was Key down on FT8, likely causing a hot switch of the contacts. ? Dan n5tm ? ? What caused the burned relay contacts and the overheated coil?? Not running MTUNE or not running MTUNE in low power? or not waiting a few seconds for the amp to follow the K3 when changing bands?
|
Found that many in all the states use the legal limit, because they can.
This is not a Cali only issue.
Shame on you KC6AWX.
?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 15, 2021, 14:35, at 14:35, "Robert T. Devine" <rtdevine@...> wrote: Agree 100 percent
In CA people use 1500W
Ridiculous and distort the whole frequency
Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
"Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
N3BNA - Dale
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 2:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
Simple. Use only 30w on digital modes. Problem solved. It is beyond
me why anyone (yes anyone) needs 100w. You will be an alligator
station. There is nothing to be proud of getting a stronger report, you
should be embarrassed to get a stronger report. Never, ever use 100w
on FT8/FT4.
73
Dale N3BNA
On Friday, October 15, 2021, 05:00:29 PM EDT, Don Nesbitt via groups.io
<n4hh@...> wrote:
A few thoughts for the group's consideration:
The scenario that Dan has cited is, unfortunately, very possible and
likely.
Re: #3 - I have been unable to find an "already included in software"
or "in the current hardware" solution that would lock out any change in
Xmit parameters - band, power, etc. - if someone hijacks when the
remote is already in xmit - and - in particular using an audio based
digital mode - for example FT8. In the contesting world of SO2X
(single op, 2 xmtrs) there are lockout safeguards available both in
"some" contesting software as well as in "some" hardware. Such that if
you are xmitting on one radio the second radio is inhibited from
xmitting. And, yes - there is an "inhibit" mode associated with the
KPA1500 but it looks like it only is useful under very specific
circumstances and ours does not "seem" to apply. I'm exploring this
but don't have a solution - - - yet.
Depending on folks to be aware of, and actually do the "right" thing is
usually not effective - hey, we all make mistakes!
I don't know what Keith will do or what decision he will make on this
issue.
But - IF you are going to use an audio based digital mode - like most
folks favorite - FT8, my advice would be:
1. Make sure your digital software is NOT running when you log in to
the remote - yes, yes, I know, I know - but mine is always only set to
decode and not transmit, etc., etc., - yah - right - sure!
2. When you log on to the remote - make sure that someone is not
already using the remote and transmitting.
3. Make sure that the amplifier is in STBY when you do use FT8 -
NOTE: Once again, we are trying to have the drive level to
automatically set at 100 watts when the amp is in STBY and 27 watts
when the amp is in OP. This has worked in the past but with
intermittent switching problems. Finger's crossed that this holds -
this time!
FYI - the KPA1500 is back and currently online and operational. While
there are few more tweaks to deal with - - - - we're back :)) -- Don
N4HH
On Friday, October 15, 2021, 02:49:02 PM EDT, Dan N5TM
<n5tm@...> wrote:
Joe,
The problem is systemic with WSJTX CAT. The software will change the
frequency to match what you may have selected, and it does this without
asking first. As an example if you simply change the mode from FT4 to
FT8, WSJTX will immediately move the frequency to the FT8 frequency.
It is possible that you could force a band change without intending to
do so, just by clicking the wrong button or dropdown on WSJTX. I have
also observed WSJTX sending out ¡°hijack¡± commands when you first launch
the program.
As my initial email stated, if this happens when someone else is
running FT8 and in a TX sequence, you are likely to have a hot switch
occurrence.
Ideas on how to avoid this:
1. Never run the amp when operating FT8/4 or any other digital mode
which keys the transmitter for a long time period.
2. Do not run CAT with WSJTX, instead, only use VOX to key the remote.
3. Implement software or hardware lockout on the amp, so that a hot
switch cannot occur. (Don N4HH is looking into this.)
Points 1 and 2 would require full compliance by all users of digital
modes on w7dxx, and even so, there could still be an inadvertent hot
switch through someone forgetting to turn off CAT, or failing to notice
the amp was still enabled.
Never running the amp with digital modes is still not completely
failsafe, as Elecraft warns, even 100W hot switched can damage the
contacts.
Dan n5tm
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Joe
KI5QZW
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
Post how to avoid "Hot Switching"
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:17 PM Dan N5TM <n5tm@...> wrote:
Elecraft states that the most common cause of burned contacts is hot
switching. I have observed that WSJTX will hijack the remote when you
bring up a new instance. My best guess would be: a second operator
hijacked the remote without intending to do so, just by opening or
changing a setting on WSJTX This could have happened while the first
operator was Key down on FT8, likely causing a hot switch of the
contacts.
Dan n5tm
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
kh6dc@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 1:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
What caused the burned relay contacts and the overheated coil? Not
running MTUNE or not running MTUNE in low power? or not waiting a few
seconds for the amp to follow the K3 when changing bands?
|
Shame on what!! Here they use it but I use no. Ore than 50 watts if that. What the hell you talking about with shaming me!!
Robert T Devine, KC6AWX
Sent From My iPhone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 15, 2021, at 20:53, GEO BADGER via groups.io <w3ab@...> wrote:
?Found that many in all the states use the legal limit, because they can.
This is not a Cali only issue.
Shame on you KC6AWX.
?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?
On Oct 15, 2021, 14:35, at 14:35, "Robert T. Devine" <rtdevine@...> wrote:
Agree 100 percent
In CA people use 1500W
Ridiculous and distort the whole frequency
Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
"Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
N3BNA - Dale
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 2:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
Simple. Use only 30w on digital modes. Problem solved. It is beyond
me why anyone (yes anyone) needs 100w. You will be an alligator
station. There is nothing to be proud of getting a stronger report, you
should be embarrassed to get a stronger report. Never, ever use 100w
on FT8/FT4.
73
Dale N3BNA
On Friday, October 15, 2021, 05:00:29 PM EDT, Don Nesbitt via groups.io
<n4hh@...> wrote:
A few thoughts for the group's consideration:
The scenario that Dan has cited is, unfortunately, very possible and
likely.
Re: #3 - I have been unable to find an "already included in software"
or "in the current hardware" solution that would lock out any change in
Xmit parameters - band, power, etc. - if someone hijacks when the
remote is already in xmit - and - in particular using an audio based
digital mode - for example FT8. In the contesting world of SO2X
(single op, 2 xmtrs) there are lockout safeguards available both in
"some" contesting software as well as in "some" hardware. Such that if
you are xmitting on one radio the second radio is inhibited from
xmitting. And, yes - there is an "inhibit" mode associated with the
KPA1500 but it looks like it only is useful under very specific
circumstances and ours does not "seem" to apply. I'm exploring this
but don't have a solution - - - yet.
Depending on folks to be aware of, and actually do the "right" thing is
usually not effective - hey, we all make mistakes!
I don't know what Keith will do or what decision he will make on this
issue.
But - IF you are going to use an audio based digital mode - like most
folks favorite - FT8, my advice would be:
1. Make sure your digital software is NOT running when you log in to
the remote - yes, yes, I know, I know - but mine is always only set to
decode and not transmit, etc., etc., - yah - right - sure!
2. When you log on to the remote - make sure that someone is not
already using the remote and transmitting.
3. Make sure that the amplifier is in STBY when you do use FT8 -
NOTE: Once again, we are trying to have the drive level to
automatically set at 100 watts when the amp is in STBY and 27 watts
when the amp is in OP. This has worked in the past but with
intermittent switching problems. Finger's crossed that this holds -
this time!
FYI - the KPA1500 is back and currently online and operational. While
there are few more tweaks to deal with - - - - we're back :)) -- Don
N4HH
On Friday, October 15, 2021, 02:49:02 PM EDT, Dan N5TM
<n5tm@...> wrote:
Joe,
The problem is systemic with WSJTX CAT. The software will change the
frequency to match what you may have selected, and it does this without
asking first. As an example if you simply change the mode from FT4 to
FT8, WSJTX will immediately move the frequency to the FT8 frequency.
It is possible that you could force a band change without intending to
do so, just by clicking the wrong button or dropdown on WSJTX. I have
also observed WSJTX sending out ¡°hijack¡± commands when you first launch
the program.
As my initial email stated, if this happens when someone else is
running FT8 and in a TX sequence, you are likely to have a hot switch
occurrence.
Ideas on how to avoid this:
1. Never run the amp when operating FT8/4 or any other digital mode
which keys the transmitter for a long time period.
2. Do not run CAT with WSJTX, instead, only use VOX to key the remote.
3. Implement software or hardware lockout on the amp, so that a hot
switch cannot occur. (Don N4HH is looking into this.)
Points 1 and 2 would require full compliance by all users of digital
modes on w7dxx, and even so, there could still be an inadvertent hot
switch through someone forgetting to turn off CAT, or failing to notice
the amp was still enabled.
Never running the amp with digital modes is still not completely
failsafe, as Elecraft warns, even 100W hot switched can damage the
contacts.
Dan n5tm
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Joe
KI5QZW
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
Post how to avoid "Hot Switching"
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:17 PM Dan N5TM <n5tm@...> wrote:
Elecraft states that the most common cause of burned contacts is hot
switching. I have observed that WSJTX will hijack the remote when you
bring up a new instance. My best guess would be: a second operator
hijacked the remote without intending to do so, just by opening or
changing a setting on WSJTX This could have happened while the first
operator was Key down on FT8, likely causing a hot switch of the
contacts.
Dan n5tm
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
kh6dc@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 1:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
What caused the burned relay contacts and the overheated coil? Not
running MTUNE or not running MTUNE in low power? or not waiting a few
seconds for the amp to follow the K3 when changing bands?
|
Attacking a particular state when there are 50 states with the same issue, as well as many operators around the world.
?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 15, 2021, 21:38, at 21:38, "Robert T. Devine" <rtdevine@...> wrote: Shame on what!! Here they use it but I use no. Ore than 50 watts if
that. What the hell you talking about with shaming me!!
Robert T Devine, KC6AWX
Sent From My iPhone
On Oct 15, 2021, at 20:53, GEO BADGER via groups.io <w3ab@...> wrote:
?Found that many in all the states use the legal limit, because they
can.
This is not a Cali only issue.
Shame on you KC6AWX.
?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?
On Oct 15, 2021, 14:35, at 14:35, "Robert T. Devine"
<rtdevine@...> wrote:
Agree 100 percent
In CA people use 1500W
Ridiculous and distort the whole frequency
Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
"Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of
N3BNA - Dale
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 2:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
Simple. Use only 30w on digital modes. Problem solved. It is
beyond
me why anyone (yes anyone) needs 100w. You will be an alligator
station. There is nothing to be proud of getting a stronger report,
you
should be embarrassed to get a stronger report. Never, ever use
100w
on FT8/FT4.
73
Dale N3BNA
On Friday, October 15, 2021, 05:00:29 PM EDT, Don Nesbitt via
groups.io
<n4hh@...> wrote:
A few thoughts for the group's consideration:
The scenario that Dan has cited is, unfortunately, very possible and
likely.
Re: #3 - I have been unable to find an "already included in
software"
or "in the current hardware" solution that would lock out any change
in
Xmit parameters - band, power, etc. - if someone hijacks when the
remote is already in xmit - and - in particular using an audio based
digital mode - for example FT8. In the contesting world of SO2X
(single op, 2 xmtrs) there are lockout safeguards available both in
"some" contesting software as well as in "some" hardware. Such that
if
you are xmitting on one radio the second radio is inhibited from
xmitting. And, yes - there is an "inhibit" mode associated with the
KPA1500 but it looks like it only is useful under very specific
circumstances and ours does not "seem" to apply. I'm exploring this
but don't have a solution - - - yet.
Depending on folks to be aware of, and actually do the "right" thing
is
usually not effective - hey, we all make mistakes!
I don't know what Keith will do or what decision he will make on
this
issue.
But - IF you are going to use an audio based digital mode - like
most
folks favorite - FT8, my advice would be:
1. Make sure your digital software is NOT running when you log in
to
the remote - yes, yes, I know, I know - but mine is always only set
to
decode and not transmit, etc., etc., - yah - right - sure!
2. When you log on to the remote - make sure that someone is not
already using the remote and transmitting.
3. Make sure that the amplifier is in STBY when you do use FT8 -
NOTE: Once again, we are trying to have the drive level to
automatically set at 100 watts when the amp is in STBY and 27 watts
when the amp is in OP. This has worked in the past but with
intermittent switching problems. Finger's crossed that this holds -
this time!
FYI - the KPA1500 is back and currently online and operational.
While
there are few more tweaks to deal with - - - - we're back :)) --
Don
N4HH
On Friday, October 15, 2021, 02:49:02 PM EDT, Dan N5TM
<n5tm@...> wrote:
Joe,
The problem is systemic with WSJTX CAT. The software will change
the
frequency to match what you may have selected, and it does this
without
asking first. As an example if you simply change the mode from FT4
to
FT8, WSJTX will immediately move the frequency to the FT8 frequency.
It is possible that you could force a band change without intending
to
do so, just by clicking the wrong button or dropdown on WSJTX. I
have
also observed WSJTX sending out ¡°hijack¡± commands when you first
launch
the program.
As my initial email stated, if this happens when someone else is
running FT8 and in a TX sequence, you are likely to have a hot
switch
occurrence.
Ideas on how to avoid this:
1. Never run the amp when operating FT8/4 or any other digital
mode
which keys the transmitter for a long time period.
2. Do not run CAT with WSJTX, instead, only use VOX to key the
remote.
3. Implement software or hardware lockout on the amp, so that a
hot
switch cannot occur. (Don N4HH is looking into this.)
Points 1 and 2 would require full compliance by all users of digital
modes on w7dxx, and even so, there could still be an inadvertent hot
switch through someone forgetting to turn off CAT, or failing to
notice
the amp was still enabled.
Never running the amp with digital modes is still not completely
failsafe, as Elecraft warns, even 100W hot switched can damage the
contacts.
Dan n5tm
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Joe
KI5QZW
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
Post how to avoid "Hot Switching"
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:17 PM Dan N5TM <n5tm@...> wrote:
Elecraft states that the most common cause of burned contacts is hot
switching. I have observed that WSJTX will hijack the remote when
you
bring up a new instance. My best guess would be: a second operator
hijacked the remote without intending to do so, just by opening or
changing a setting on WSJTX This could have happened while the
first
operator was Key down on FT8, likely causing a hot switch of the
contacts.
Dan n5tm
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
kh6dc@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 1:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
What caused the burned relay contacts and the overheated coil? Not
running MTUNE or not running MTUNE in low power? or not waiting a
few
seconds for the amp to follow the K3 when changing bands?
|
I was not attacking my state I was just saying what¡¯s going on here. I know all over but just stating a fact.
Forget it I will not respond here anymore
Robert T Devine, KC6AWX
Sent From My iPhone
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 16, 2021, at 11:41, GEO BADGER via groups.io <w3ab@...> wrote:
?Attacking a particular state when there are 50 states with the same issue, as well as many operators around the world.
?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?
On Oct 15, 2021, 21:38, at 21:38, "Robert T. Devine" <rtdevine@...> wrote:
Shame on what!! Here they use it but I use no. Ore than 50 watts if
that. What the hell you talking about with shaming me!!
Robert T Devine, KC6AWX
Sent From My iPhone
On Oct 15, 2021, at 20:53, GEO BADGER via groups.io <w3ab@...> wrote:
?Found that many in all the states use the legal limit, because they
can.
This is not a Cali only issue.
Shame on you KC6AWX.
?___
Sent from my two way wrist watch
73 de W3AB/GEO?
On Oct 15, 2021, 14:35, at 14:35, "Robert T. Devine"
<rtdevine@...> wrote:
Agree 100 percent
In CA people use 1500W
Ridiculous and distort the whole frequency
Robert T. Devine, KC6AWX
"Save a Life...Become an Organ Donor"
'Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you
meet is fighting some kind of battle.'
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of
N3BNA - Dale
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 2:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
Simple. Use only 30w on digital modes. Problem solved. It is
beyond
me why anyone (yes anyone) needs 100w. You will be an alligator
station. There is nothing to be proud of getting a stronger report,
you
should be embarrassed to get a stronger report. Never, ever use
100w
on FT8/FT4.
73
Dale N3BNA
On Friday, October 15, 2021, 05:00:29 PM EDT, Don Nesbitt via
groups.io
<n4hh@...> wrote:
A few thoughts for the group's consideration:
The scenario that Dan has cited is, unfortunately, very possible and
likely.
Re: #3 - I have been unable to find an "already included in
software"
or "in the current hardware" solution that would lock out any change
in
Xmit parameters - band, power, etc. - if someone hijacks when the
remote is already in xmit - and - in particular using an audio based
digital mode - for example FT8. In the contesting world of SO2X
(single op, 2 xmtrs) there are lockout safeguards available both in
"some" contesting software as well as in "some" hardware. Such that
if
you are xmitting on one radio the second radio is inhibited from
xmitting. And, yes - there is an "inhibit" mode associated with the
KPA1500 but it looks like it only is useful under very specific
circumstances and ours does not "seem" to apply. I'm exploring this
but don't have a solution - - - yet.
Depending on folks to be aware of, and actually do the "right" thing
is
usually not effective - hey, we all make mistakes!
I don't know what Keith will do or what decision he will make on
this
issue.
But - IF you are going to use an audio based digital mode - like
most
folks favorite - FT8, my advice would be:
1. Make sure your digital software is NOT running when you log in
to
the remote - yes, yes, I know, I know - but mine is always only set
to
decode and not transmit, etc., etc., - yah - right - sure!
2. When you log on to the remote - make sure that someone is not
already using the remote and transmitting.
3. Make sure that the amplifier is in STBY when you do use FT8 -
NOTE: Once again, we are trying to have the drive level to
automatically set at 100 watts when the amp is in STBY and 27 watts
when the amp is in OP. This has worked in the past but with
intermittent switching problems. Finger's crossed that this holds -
this time!
FYI - the KPA1500 is back and currently online and operational.
While
there are few more tweaks to deal with - - - - we're back :)) --
Don
N4HH
On Friday, October 15, 2021, 02:49:02 PM EDT, Dan N5TM
<n5tm@...> wrote:
Joe,
The problem is systemic with WSJTX CAT. The software will change
the
frequency to match what you may have selected, and it does this
without
asking first. As an example if you simply change the mode from FT4
to
FT8, WSJTX will immediately move the frequency to the FT8 frequency.
It is possible that you could force a band change without intending
to
do so, just by clicking the wrong button or dropdown on WSJTX. I
have
also observed WSJTX sending out ¡°hijack¡± commands when you first
launch
the program.
As my initial email stated, if this happens when someone else is
running FT8 and in a TX sequence, you are likely to have a hot
switch
occurrence.
Ideas on how to avoid this:
1. Never run the amp when operating FT8/4 or any other digital
mode
which keys the transmitter for a long time period.
2. Do not run CAT with WSJTX, instead, only use VOX to key the
remote.
3. Implement software or hardware lockout on the amp, so that a
hot
switch cannot occur. (Don N4HH is looking into this.)
Points 1 and 2 would require full compliance by all users of digital
modes on w7dxx, and even so, there could still be an inadvertent hot
switch through someone forgetting to turn off CAT, or failing to
notice
the amp was still enabled.
Never running the amp with digital modes is still not completely
failsafe, as Elecraft warns, even 100W hot switched can damage the
contacts.
Dan n5tm
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Joe
KI5QZW
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2021 10:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
Post how to avoid "Hot Switching"
On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:17 PM Dan N5TM <n5tm@...> wrote:
Elecraft states that the most common cause of burned contacts is hot
switching. I have observed that WSJTX will hijack the remote when
you
bring up a new instance. My best guess would be: a second operator
hijacked the remote without intending to do so, just by opening or
changing a setting on WSJTX This could have happened while the
first
operator was Key down on FT8, likely causing a hot switch of the
contacts.
Dan n5tm
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of
kh6dc@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2021 1:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [W7DXXREMOTE] What was done to amp
What caused the burned relay contacts and the overheated coil? Not
running MTUNE or not running MTUNE in low power? or not waiting a
few
seconds for the amp to follow the K3 when changing bands?
|
Here's what I do when using the remote with FT8:
1. Log into the remote and if open, ask if I can use the remote.
2. Check to see if the amp is in operate or standby and make sure it's on standby.
3. Open WSJT-X, pick the frequency and use.
4. Go back to the remote to see if amp is still on standby.
|
GEO BADGER