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Re: Rob Sherwood rankings??
?73 de Luc ON4ALV On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 8:06?PM jjpurdum via <jjpurdum=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: boards and kits and stuff
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý¡°Perhaps he can jump in and talk about debugging and library support.¡±?? ? Yeah¡ I¡¯d love to hear what he as to say about that too.? He sure got the sBITx working in a hurry after the uBITx¡ ? ? Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ VP2EHZ ? Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch ¨C K9ZC Staunton, Illinois ? Owner ¨C Operator Villa Grand Piton ¨C J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: ? Moderator: North American QRO Group at Groups.IO. Moderator: Amateur Radio Builders Group at Groups.IO. ? email:? bill@... ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of jjpurdum via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 1:21 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SoftwareControlledHamRadio] boards and kits and stuff ? If I were going to start over, I might consider the Raspberry Pi. It has the memory resources and clock speed to pull it off and a 10" 1024x600 display is less than $50, so overall it costs less than the Discovery board. What I don't know is the programming and library support for C. Python appears good, but the job would be easier in C. Farhan's sBITx uses an RP, so he would know about the development environment better than I would. Perhaps he can jump in and talk about deubgging and library support. ? Jack, W8TEE ? On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 02:08:02 PM EDT, Terrance Robertson, KN6ZDE via groups.io <tmrob4@...> wrote: ? ? On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 10:34 AM, Greg KF5N wrote:
I spent about a month working with the STM32H747I-DISCO Discovery board.? It has good debugging capabilities.
My goal was to get a mockup of the T41 code running on the dual core processor, with DSP on the M7 core and the display on the M4.? I got basic stuff working as planned on the two cores, but good library support didn't make things easy. I finally gave up after determining the display code would require a major rewrite.? Even though the display resolution was the same as the one we use on the T41, the library support was very different.? This will be a bit of a hurdle for those wanting to move to another display type, though not insurmountable.? I have a with a version of the T41 display written in C#. ?
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Re: boards and kits and stuff
The call sign/grid square info could be moved to the SD card and not be part of the raw code. All you would need is a text file with that info on the SD card and then add a trivial amount of code to read it before the Splash screen is displayed. Jack, W8TEE
On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 02:15:16 PM EDT, jerry-KF6VB <jerry@...> wrote:
On 2025-03-20 10:34, Greg KF5N via groups.io wrote: > > What I don't like about the T41 is the minimalistic documentation. > Perhaps with SparkFun taking over, Paul will have some time to finish > that up. > And the worst part is the lack of a debugger! *** Amen!? The raspberry pi Pico has become my go-to for little projects because it supports SWD ( single wire debug ).? Breakpoints.? Source level single step.? Etc.? Shortens development time by an order of magnitude. The iMXRT1062 chip DOES have a JTAG port, but PJRC took that over for their boot processor - to make it more "Arduino-like". If we were to do another Main Board, it might make sense to just put an iMXRT1062 & flash chip on it. Less pins, less connectors.? JTAG debug!? The schematic of the Teensy could be a guide for our intrepid hardware folks. On the software side, serious rework would be necessary.? What about the PJRC audio library?? Well - I suspect that PJRC didn't write it.? The graphic design tool was ported from a project called "Node-Red". I personally would ditch the Arduino IDE in a heartbeat.? I've never liked it.? It hides too much from the programmer. There are better IDEs out there.? Other IDEs do have more of a learning curve to get to the "hello world" stage.? Right now, everybody needs to use the IDE if they want a complete working T41.? Why?? Because the user's callsign and grid square are include-file compile time options.? If those things were EEPROM/SD-card data, that requirement would disappear, and people with no interest in software could just download a hex file. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? - Jerry, KF6VB -- Jack, W8TEE |
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Re: boards and kits and stuff
If I were going to start over, I might consider the Raspberry Pi. It has the memory resources and clock speed to pull it off and a 10" 1024x600 display is less than $50, so overall it costs less than the Discovery board. What I don't know is the programming and library support for C. Python appears good, but the job would be easier in C. Farhan's sBITx uses an RP, so he would know about the development environment better than I would. Perhaps he can jump in and talk about deubgging and library support. Jack, W8TEE
On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 02:08:02 PM EDT, Terrance Robertson, KN6ZDE via groups.io <tmrob4@...> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 10:34 AM, Greg KF5N wrote:
I've thought about looking around for a Teensy equivalent which has a debugger.? The Teensy audio libraries would be missed.I spent about a month working with the STM32H747I-DISCO Discovery board.? It has good debugging capabilities.  My goal was to get a mockup of the T41 code running on the dual core processor, with DSP on the M7 core and the display on the M4.? I got basic stuff working as planned on the two cores, but good library support didn't make things easy. I finally gave up after determining the display code would require a major rewrite.? Even though the display resolution was the same as the one we use on the T41, the library support was very different.? This will be a bit of a hurdle for those wanting to move to another display type, though not insurmountable.? I have a with a version of the T41 display written in C#.
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-- Jack, W8TEE |
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Re: boards and kits and stuff
On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 10:34 AM, Greg KF5N wrote:
I've thought about looking around for a Teensy equivalent which has a debugger.? The Teensy audio libraries would be missed.I spent about a month working with the STM32H747I-DISCO Discovery board.? It has good debugging capabilities. My goal was to get a mockup of the T41 code running on the dual core processor, with DSP on the M7 core and the display on the M4.? I got basic stuff working as planned on the two cores, but good library support didn't make things easy. I finally gave up after determining the display code would require a major rewrite.? Even though the display resolution was the same as the one we use on the T41, the library support was very different.? This will be a bit of a hurdle for those wanting to move to another display type, though not insurmountable.? I have a with a version of the T41 display written in C#.
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Re: boards and kits and stuff
I agree. The T41 development time would have been years less if there was a decent debugger. I can't believe that the Arduino people don't have the talent to incorporate a debugger in the IDE. Jack, W8TEE
On Thursday, March 20, 2025 at 01:34:52 PM EDT, Greg KF5N via groups.io <greg.electricity@...> wrote:
My experience with the display is different (better) because I made changes to the design while still using the same display driver IC.
The display problems I was referring to are V12 only.? Basic functionality.? To my recollection, the V10/V11 and kits always had robust display operation.
How many kits were constructed?? Hundreds?? I remember I got a display to work on a breadboard!
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What I don't like about the T41 is the minimalistic documentation.? Perhaps with SparkFun taking over, Paul will have some time to finish that up.
And the worst part is the lack of a debugger!? I'm not going to work on another project which does not have a decent debugger by default.
I've thought about looking around for a Teensy equivalent which has a debugger.? The Teensy audio libraries would be missed.
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73 Greg KF5N
-- Jack, W8TEE |
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Re: boards and kits and stuff
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýIt¡¯s a pretty solid machine but that is without plugging it in yet¡ so don¡¯t know exactly what will happen long term.? I did get the circuit board making kit and the example is a LED board with traces that are about 0.05¡±.? When I was in college I worked at Honeywell¡¯s circuit board manufacturing facility and accumulated thousands of drills and router bits¡ all 1/8¡± shafts¡ that were discarded when they ¡°holed out¡± (way conservative)¡. And they were extremely high quality. ? One of the things I want to try is making aluminum knobs for dual encoders and see where that goes.? I also have a camshaft gear that broke on my kids go-kart (unobtanium)¡ I need to make that so its ready if any of my kids decide to have kids of their own. ? ? Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ VP2EHZ ? Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch ¨C K9ZC Staunton, Illinois ? Owner ¨C Operator Villa Grand Piton ¨C J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: ? Moderator: North American QRO Group at Groups.IO. Moderator: Amateur Radio Builders Group at Groups.IO. ? email:? bill@... ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Terrance Robertson, KN6ZDE via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 12:05 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SoftwareControlledHamRadio] boards and kits and stuff ? On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 09:32 AM, K9HZ wrote:
Sounds like you got a good machine.? I'm guessing your experience will go better than mine.? I tried this with a budget CNC a year ago.? After a bit of a learning curve and some small successes, I still found I needed many trials to get a good prototype and even then, wasn't able to route traces as fine as we use in the T41.? Still, I've used the machine to route cases for some of my projects, so all isn't lost. |
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Re: boards and kits and stuff
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýGot the laser attachment and the rotating 4th axis? as well¡ ??Uses G-code so compatible with a lot of systems and sortwares.? Works with aluminum, wood, plastic, glass, etc.? Can¡¯t wait to try it! ? ? Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ VP2EHZ ? Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch ¨C K9ZC Staunton, Illinois ? Owner ¨C Operator Villa Grand Piton ¨C J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: ? Moderator: North American QRO Group at Groups.IO. Moderator: Amateur Radio Builders Group at Groups.IO. ? email:? bill@... ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Doug W via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 11:50 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SoftwareControlledHamRadio] boards and kits and stuff ? On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 11:32 AM, K9HZ wrote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ? I don't have anything useful to add other than that looks like a fantastic machine and I want to hear all about your journey as you learn how to use it. |
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Re: boards and kits and stuff
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDifferent communication bus.?? I2C vs. SPI. ? ? Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ VP2EHZ ? Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch ¨C K9ZC Staunton, Illinois ? Owner ¨C Operator Villa Grand Piton ¨C J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: ? Moderator: North American QRO Group at Groups.IO. Moderator: Amateur Radio Builders Group at Groups.IO. ? email:? bill@... ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Tom - AJ8X via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 10:40 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SoftwareControlledHamRadio] boards and kits and stuff ? I just made a 20' cable. It works fine for the front panel buttons, but when I install it for the display the screen doesn't come on. Is that useful information, or did everyone expect that? |
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Re: boards and kits and stuff
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý¡°No one complained about display issues that I can recall.¡±? You might review the posts from fall two years ago to refresh your memory when Al with a group of others was working on ways to calm the noise down. ? That the bus driver part that was used desensitized the RX by 17 dB (measured in my lab).? The display made that worse as a noisy antenna.? Your experience may be different. ? The V12.6 MAIN board, being a 4-layer board, designed/ tested using software with techniques to minimize noise and impedance mismatch. ? I¡¯m pretty much done with the Teensy¡ because the SPI interface is pathetic and inferior to other choices like HDMI¡ and so are many (not all) of the SPI buss displays I¡¯ve tried. ??I hope to work with Oliver to compartmentalize the T41 code¡ for a RPi as a first step, and then eventually to a combo RPi and FPGA.?? I¡¯ve made great strides understanding how to move, decouple, and enhance the T41 recently¡ into those devices and it will start once the 100W PA and ATU is shipping.? Again there is no public offering here but I¡¯m willing to work with anyone with similar motives. ? Of course it¡¯s nonsense to speak authoritatively this early on stuff I don¡¯t own and have direct experience with yet so I don¡¯t know if this will lead to a better situation or just ?different problems rearranged. ? Freight company delivered a 4-axis CNC machine here yesterday. ?Makera.? ?Prototyping is taking a major step forward.? Yet another thing to learn. ? ? ? ? Dr. William J. Schmidt - K9HZ J68HZ 8P6HK ZF2HZ PJ4/K9HZ VP5/K9HZ PJ2/K9HZ VP2EHZ ? Owner - Operator Big Signal Ranch ¨C K9ZC Staunton, Illinois ? Owner ¨C Operator Villa Grand Piton ¨C J68HZ Soufriere, St. Lucia W.I. Rent it: ? Moderator: North American QRO Group at Groups.IO. Moderator: Amateur Radio Builders Group at Groups.IO. ? email:? bill@... ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Greg KF5N via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2025 9:57 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [SoftwareControlledHamRadio] boards and kits and stuff ? Hi Terrance- ? The original V11 Main board design uses a driver IC for the SPI bus which drives the display.? Same for the original kits.? No one complained about display issues that I can recall. There was some moderate noise from the display which is for the most part, overridden by atmospheric noise when you connect an antenna.? Some of that noise was due to inadequate bypassing on the QSD board. I have designed a new Main board, with an improved layout and more bypassing/decoupling.? It uses the same SPI driver as the original.? Also I have a new QSD2 which has improved bypassing/decoupling. The display performance is solid and any display related noise is inconsequential. It's a good assumption that if the original display driver had been incorporated into the V12 Main board, no one would be complaining about bad display behavior or display related noise (V12 has EMI improvements). ? The next step is to investigate boosting the Teensy's GPIO drive strength and bandwidth via software changes.? If that is successful, the driver IC (and buffer board) could possibly be eliminated without anyone complaining about bad display behavior, and with V12s EMI improvements, display noise would probably be a non-issue as well. ? -- 73 Greg KF5N |
Luc Vlecken
jjpurdum
K9HZ