Re: Starstructure/Servocat/Nexus Astro images since 5/12-24
I downloaded your image as a *.png and then did some Pixinsight + BlurXTerminator + NoiseXTerminator + StarXTerminator + GHS.? Then did some predistortion in GIMP, then went back to Pixinsight and added back the stars with Pixelmath.
?
I exaggerated the blacks by using the Linear shift in GHS (Generalized Hyperbolic Stretch).
?
While some may dislike the tedium of post processing, I find it "almost" as fun as capturing the image myself.
?
Richard
?
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Re: Starstructure/Servocat/Nexus Astro images since 5/12-24
Beautiful image Gabriel. Unless you wish to go thru the mind numbing exercise of full deconvolution in any post processing program and then not have it work the way you hoped (& that will be the case) then have to go thru the full on steps for star corrections (this will take hours for both) I suggest you use Seti Astro's Cosmic Correct or RC Astro's Blue Xterminator. These programs where designed & written so we would not have to spend hours star correcting and deconvoluting then have it not turn out the way we want. These 2 programs do this in a matter of seconds or go ahead and spend many many days learning how to use a deconvolution and star correcting methods then after months of learning spending hours on each image running those programs. ? As for other steps in post processing I did learn the hands on step by step method and or studied what, how and why those steps worked. In my opinion reading and studying what, how and why decon and star correct work is a good idea, trying to learn, master and then implement those processes is a waste of very valuable time. Why do you think a master processor like Adam Block and Russ Croman along with others were so thrilled when RC came out with Blur Xeterminator?? Because they "who knew how to decon and star correct" didn't have to spend endless hours to use those very imperfect programs.
My soap box 2 cents worth.??
Mickey
Here is my latest image: 1073x 10s (2h 50m) on NGC 2336. Distance about 100 million light years. Data from 2 nights (Thurs-Fri & Sat-Sun).
?
High res:
?
I have thought a bit about the chromatic aberration, it actually does not bother me much, and a hardware solution
or correct processing would be more inspiring than using AI, nothing wrong with using AI but solving problems
without the help of AI is a fun challenge for me personally. I thought i was alone on thinking like this but noticed a
youtube channel started "The real intelligence challenge" I saw one image of M33 posted on Astrobin contending.
?
/Gabriel
|
Re: Starstructure/Servocat/Nexus Astro images since 5/12-24
Here is my latest image: 1073x 10s (2h 59m) on NGC 2336. Distance about 100 million light years. Data from 2 nights (Thurs-Fri & Sat-Sun).
?
High res:
?
I have thought a bit about the chromatic aberration, it actually does not bother me much, and a hardware solution
or correct processing would be more inspiring than using AI, nothing wrong with using AI but solving problems
without the help of AI is a fun challenge for me personally. I thought i was alone on thinking like this but noticed a
youtube channel started "The real intelligence challenge" I saw one image of M33 posted on Astrobin contending.
?
/Gabriel
|
To close out this thread… Sunday night we set up and then the dew and clouds came rolling in. We just kept everything covered, no observing, no testing. We probably won’t be out until the end of this month. So, lets close out this thread, and see what happens next time. ? Thanks everyone for the help. Steve Goldberg ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Goldberg via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 9:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking? And good morning to you, too. FYI for future reference, we both have the 15" Obsession Classic. "Dueling Telescopes" As for s/w versions of our SC, I doubt they are the latest. I'll have to figure out / find somebody that can update the scopes. I have a new AN, but Amelia's AN is probably an older version. When I talked about Amelia's going to the horizon, the tube was actually horizontal to the ground.So the rocker box stopped it. She tried to get to it for a 3-button stop but couldn't in time. I think I remember seeing the AN guide number with <down arrow> number so it still wanted to go more. At that point she said turn off the AN and she'll observe without tracking. Now we know we can try going to another object and keep going. As for my HC, coming out of the HC is a coiled extension cable, with a RJ connector to the cable at the top of the stalk. I think the problem is one of the RJ pin wire at this connector point. Today I will try your suggestion trying to locate the issue. My gut felling it is NOT inside the HC or SC box. Whew.. Thanks again for the reply and things to try. On 02/02/2025 7:39 AM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote: Good morning Steve and Amelia, Ok ... so mostly good operation last night. A few comments re what you posted: -any 'drift' might be caused by not having done the backlash compensation. Is Amelia's scope and AN set up for the latest versions? If not you might want to upgrade to those as there were significant adds to each of them.? -When you say - and I know its a day later and it looks like you didn't know even then, when you say "go below the horizon"... what does that mean? The AN doesn't actually say that. Do you mean it had an offset for a GOTO that would have taken it below the horizon? With the latest version (and I believe earlier ones) the system would not allow a GOTO below the horizon - the AN would do a down beat - bee...booooooop telling the user that it was indeed an object below the horizon. There is no need to stop using the system at that point - just go to an object that is not below the horizon. Not sure why she gave up. IF you think that indeed as I suggested might be the case for the loooong GOTO's the night before - there might be a slipping DSC encoder, you could at that time (or any time) go to MODE ALT AZ and see if the ALT is indicating it is below the horizon. The AN and ServoCAT have LOTS of protections built in re the horizon. For example if you are tracking an object that sets - the ALT tracking will stop at the horizon (the AZ will continue on). And as mentioned it won't allow a GOTO to an object below the horizon. Further remember that the horizon is as the AN sees it to be from the initial alignment. IF there is a slipping encoder this would of course mess with that potentially. Also - there is a parameter, I believe under SETUP GOTO that allows you to set a local horizon limit. So for example if you have trees all around that limit visibility to no lower than 20° you can program that in. That will then become the local horizon limit. I have mine set to I believe 12° just because I don't want to look through 10+ atmospheres near the horizon nor jeopardize the main mirror moving (tipping).? -re your Gen3 HC. You might want to invest in a spare HC cable. Bill can sell that to you or you can find it online (unknown quality) by looking for a handset cable with a 4 pin RJ22 connector wired as a 'voice' cable.? If it is the connector inside the HC or inside the ServoCAT that would be more work - but that is extremely rare.? You can test the cable by plugging it in (during the day is fine) ... looking at the lights on it. After power up (all lights turn on briefly as a check) it should go to the red GUIDE fast light being on as well as the green GOTO. Wiggle the cable at one end a bunch of times and see if it restarts (lights off and then all lights back on briefly). Repeat at both ends. If one end seems to do this action, and you're sure of it, then reverse the cable and try again at THAT end of the CABLE. So - you have it plugged in and wiggle the HC end. Nothing happens. You wiggle the ServoCAT end and it seems to cause the HC lights to reset... hold THIS end of the cable - unplug it and move it to the HC - THIS end is the suspicious end... plug in the now free end to the CAT. Now repeat by wiggling at the HC. If it does it again then it is indeed the cable. If not - and it does it again by now, again, wiggling at the ServoCAT then its the ServoCAT connection. Contact bill if you suspect it is a fixed connection and not the cable. My strong suspicious is it is the cable.? ------ Original Message ------ Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking Sorry I didn't see this before the evening so couldn't do the test. We did, however, during the day unplug / replug all the data cables, from the 2 motors and the main box. We couldn't do the cable on the AZ motor with the plastic cover. Just could get my hands on it. 1. Last night everything went almost perfect. The tracking wasn't steady, had a slight drift that Amelia could live. NOTHING like we had seen the night before. 2. Later in the evening, while doing GOTO, the AN said go below the horizon. So the scope stopped when horizontal. I don't know what object Amelia put into the GOTO or thought she put in. So the rest of the night she ran without tracking ( like we did in the old days). Meanwhile, back at Steve's scope, the handpad stopped working. I'm pretty sure its a connection at one of the RJ connectors. I can wiggle a connection point and the HP comes on, sometimes no lights, sometimes a weird set of lights. Its getting cold for us, into the 40's. Remember, we're from the south, not North Dakota. So we called it a night.Amelia logged 2 objects, Steve 1. Steve (going back to stamp collecting) Goldberg On 02/01/2025 3:38 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote: Ok ... try the test I had indicated - remove the DSC cable AT the front of the ServoCAT ... see if it then is fully controllable by the handpad.? This is an important test - if the ServoCAT works a bunch of times w/o the DSC cable plugged in.? If it does - and you see this (wrong) action again (note you can do a daytime alignment, doesn't need to be very accurate, just to test this all out so you can possibly fix it BEFORE it gets dark) ... check the GUIDE values on the DSC. Do they seem right? Are they 'going down' as the GOTO slew progresses? Also - try disengaging and seeing if the object is indeed at where you told it to go (of course this would be at night after a real alignment).? You can also go to MODE ENCODER on the AN and see, as the ServoCAT moves, do the encoder values change.? This could be a slipping or non-functional DSC encoder ... if the motor speed seems correct (important distinction) but it seems to take longer to do a GOTO then it might be that the AN is not getting encoder readout partially or at all.? Point the scope straight up (assuming you have that as your ALT REF position) and north. Then turn on, do your FIX ALT REF. Now go to MODE ENCODER, enter. Now move the ALT ONLY down until it matches your LAT. Go to MODE ALIGN STAR, find Polaris, and hit enter. You now have 2/3rd of the alignment done...? open a planetarium program, one that will show stars at the current time and show their current ALT/AZ position. Find one in the sky at that time - go to MODE ENCODER, move the scope to the ALT/AZ position it shows for that star (oh - bright star, so that it is in the BRIGHT STAR catalog)... now go back to ALIGN STAR, enter, find that star - hit enter. You're now aligned. (of course for this you do need the DSC cable plugged in the whole time) ------ Original Message ------ Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking You are making us think back a couple of hours after we have slept. ;) This was the first GOTO of the night. The object was not in the field, too much power eyepiece. Changed to a lower power, then pushed a button to move the scope. She claimed it was moving too fast. So I moved the "speed button" down to the slower speed. She then pushed another button and the scope kept going at the same slower speed, Did the 3-button stop. Pressed a button for 2 seconds or more to reset, and when taking finger off the button the scope kept moving. We did several times. Gary, you asked about the speed of the movement. The speed was the same as the last slew speed? button push. Don't think it was accelerating, we didn't let run that long to see. That is where were stopped for the night. On 02/01/2025 1:19 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote: Questions for you... you said Amelia did a GOTO and had no issue... was that the first GOTO or was that later in the session (you mention you were tired indicating possibly it had been working for a while)?? When you say "the scope kept moving, faster than tracking" ... did it appear to accelerate to a stable speed - then continue at a (stable) speed OR did it continue to speed up going much faster than the SLEW rate (rate you'd see when doing a GOTO)?? Try unplugging the DSC cable from the front of the ServoCAT --- then see if the HC can control the scope for slewing. Push the button - does it accelerate up to speed, go at a constant speed as long as you are holding a button, then decelerate to a stop when you let go of the button?? Does it operate in JOG speed the same, only slower overall?? If the motor encoder were not being seen the motor would, due to lack of feedback from its encoder, speed up VERY fast with no perceptible acceleration and it would not stop with a 3 button stop (it MIGHT stop ?- but rarely and only randomly - and it would start up again pretty fast).?
? ?
? ?
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Gary and Bill, I had a friend make a cable for me. It will be a while before I can test it. My scope is stuffed into our cargo trailer, next to Amelia’s. So for now, lets consider this case closed. Thanks for your help. Steve Goldberg ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Steve Goldberg via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, February 2, 2025 2:42 PM
To: [email protected]; K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurK9RX@...>
Subject: [ServoCAT] Goldberg Hand Pad? I think I figured out my hand paddle control issue.? When I plug the HC into the port on the SC? I can get the motors to spin. Image .2325. If I trace the cable from the SC going to the stalk and plug the HC there, no response from the motors. Image .1357. Last night while trying to figure out the problem,? why jiggle the cable high up the stalk would cause a fault.? Bill, if you think appropriate,? can you send me a new cable? What info do you need from me. Gary, thanks for your help. On 02/02/2025 7:39 AM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote: Good morning Steve and Amelia, Ok ... so mostly good operation last night. A few comments re what you posted: -any 'drift' might be caused by not having done the backlash compensation. Is Amelia's scope and AN set up for the latest versions? If not you might want to upgrade to those as there were significant adds to each of them.? -When you say - and I know its a day later and it looks like you didn't know even then, when you say "go below the horizon"... what does that mean? The AN doesn't actually say that. Do you mean it had an offset for a GOTO that would have taken it below the horizon? With the latest version (and I believe earlier ones) the system would not allow a GOTO below the horizon - the AN would do a down beat - bee...booooooop telling the user that it was indeed an object below the horizon. There is no need to stop using the system at that point - just go to an object that is not below the horizon. Not sure why she gave up. IF you think that indeed as I suggested might be the case for the loooong GOTO's the night before - there might be a slipping DSC encoder, you could at that time (or any time) go to MODE ALT AZ and see if the ALT is indicating it is below the horizon. The AN and ServoCAT have LOTS of protections built in re the horizon. For example if you are tracking an object that sets - the ALT tracking will stop at the horizon (the AZ will continue on). And as mentioned it won't allow a GOTO to an object below the horizon. Further remember that the horizon is as the AN sees it to be from the initial alignment. IF there is a slipping encoder this would of course mess with that potentially. Also - there is a parameter, I believe under SETUP GOTO that allows you to set a local horizon limit. So for example if you have trees all around that limit visibility to no lower than 20° you can program that in. That will then become the local horizon limit. I have mine set to I believe 12° just because I don't want to look through 10+ atmospheres near the horizon nor jeopardize the main mirror moving (tipping).? -re your Gen3 HC. You might want to invest in a spare HC cable. Bill can sell that to you or you can find it online (unknown quality) by looking for a handset cable with a 4 pin RJ22 connector wired as a 'voice' cable.? If it is the connector inside the HC or inside the ServoCAT that would be more work - but that is extremely rare.? You can test the cable by plugging it in (during the day is fine) ... looking at the lights on it. After power up (all lights turn on briefly as a check) it should go to the red GUIDE fast light being on as well as the green GOTO. Wiggle the cable at one end a bunch of times and see if it restarts (lights off and then all lights back on briefly). Repeat at both ends. If one end seems to do this action, and you're sure of it, then reverse the cable and try again at THAT end of the CABLE. So - you have it plugged in and wiggle the HC end. Nothing happens. You wiggle the ServoCAT end and it seems to cause the HC lights to reset... hold THIS end of the cable - unplug it and move it to the HC - THIS end is the suspicious end... plug in the now free end to the CAT. Now repeat by wiggling at the HC. If it does it again then it is indeed the cable. If not - and it does it again by now, again, wiggling at the ServoCAT then its the ServoCAT connection. Contact bill if you suspect it is a fixed connection and not the cable. My strong suspicious is it is the cable.? ------ Original Message ------ Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking Sorry I didn't see this before the evening so couldn't do the test. We did, however, during the day unplug / replug all the data cables, from the 2 motors and the main box. We couldn't do the cable on the AZ motor with the plastic cover. Just could get my hands on it. 1. Last night everything went almost perfect. The tracking wasn't steady, had a slight drift that Amelia could live. NOTHING like we had seen the night before. 2. Later in the evening, while doing GOTO, the AN said go below the horizon. So the scope stopped when horizontal. I don't know what object Amelia put into the GOTO or thought she put in. So the rest of the night she ran without tracking ( like we did in the old days). Meanwhile, back at Steve's scope, the handpad stopped working. I'm pretty sure its a connection at one of the RJ connectors. I can wiggle a connection point and the HP comes on, sometimes no lights, sometimes a weird set of lights. Its getting cold for us, into the 40's. Remember, we're from the south, not North Dakota. So we called it a night.Amelia logged 2 objects, Steve 1. Steve (going back to stamp collecting) Goldberg On 02/01/2025 3:38 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote: Ok ... try the test I had indicated - remove the DSC cable AT the front of the ServoCAT ... see if it then is fully controllable by the handpad.? This is an important test - if the ServoCAT works a bunch of times w/o the DSC cable plugged in.? If it does - and you see this (wrong) action again (note you can do a daytime alignment, doesn't need to be very accurate, just to test this all out so you can possibly fix it BEFORE it gets dark) ... check the GUIDE values on the DSC. Do they seem right? Are they 'going down' as the GOTO slew progresses? Also - try disengaging and seeing if the object is indeed at where you told it to go (of course this would be at night after a real alignment).? You can also go to MODE ENCODER on the AN and see, as the ServoCAT moves, do the encoder values change.? This could be a slipping or non-functional DSC encoder ... if the motor speed seems correct (important distinction) but it seems to take longer to do a GOTO then it might be that the AN is not getting encoder readout partially or at all.? Point the scope straight up (assuming you have that as your ALT REF position) and north. Then turn on, do your FIX ALT REF. Now go to MODE ENCODER, enter. Now move the ALT ONLY down until it matches your LAT. Go to MODE ALIGN STAR, find Polaris, and hit enter. You now have 2/3rd of the alignment done...? open a planetarium program, one that will show stars at the current time and show their current ALT/AZ position. Find one in the sky at that time - go to MODE ENCODER, move the scope to the ALT/AZ position it shows for that star (oh - bright star, so that it is in the BRIGHT STAR catalog)... now go back to ALIGN STAR, enter, find that star - hit enter. You're now aligned. (of course for this you do need the DSC cable plugged in the whole time) ------ Original Message ------ Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking You are making us think back a couple of hours after we have slept. ;) This was the first GOTO of the night. The object was not in the field, too much power eyepiece. Changed to a lower power, then pushed a button to move the scope. She claimed it was moving too fast. So I moved the "speed button" down to the slower speed. She then pushed another button and the scope kept going at the same slower speed, Did the 3-button stop. Pressed a button for 2 seconds or more to reset, and when taking finger off the button the scope kept moving. We did several times. Gary, you asked about the speed of the movement. The speed was the same as the last slew speed? button push. Don't think it was accelerating, we didn't let run that long to see. That is where were stopped for the night. On 02/01/2025 1:19 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote: Questions for you... you said Amelia did a GOTO and had no issue... was that the first GOTO or was that later in the session (you mention you were tired indicating possibly it had been working for a while)?? When you say "the scope kept moving, faster than tracking" ... did it appear to accelerate to a stable speed - then continue at a (stable) speed OR did it continue to speed up going much faster than the SLEW rate (rate you'd see when doing a GOTO)?? Try unplugging the DSC cable from the front of the ServoCAT --- then see if the HC can control the scope for slewing. Push the button - does it accelerate up to speed, go at a constant speed as long as you are holding a button, then decelerate to a stop when you let go of the button?? Does it operate in JOG speed the same, only slower overall?? If the motor encoder were not being seen the motor would, due to lack of feedback from its encoder, speed up VERY fast with no perceptible acceleration and it would not stop with a 3 button stop (it MIGHT stop ?- but rarely and only randomly - and it would start up again pretty fast).?
? ?
? ?
|
Steve - I'm sending you a private email.
BC
?
|
Gary and Bill,
I think I figured out my hand paddle control issue.?
?
When I plug the HC into the port on the SC? I can get the motors to spin. Image .2325.
?
If I trace the cable from the SC going to the stalk and plug the HC there, no response from the motors. Image .1357.
?
Last night while trying to figure out the problem,? why jiggle the cable high up the stalk would cause a fault.?
?
Bill, if you think appropriate,? can you send me a new cable? What info do you need from me.
?
Gary, thanks for your help.
Steve Goldberg?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 02/02/2025 7:39 AM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Good morning Steve and Amelia,
?
Ok ... so mostly good operation last night. A few comments re what you posted:
?
-any 'drift' might be caused by not having done the backlash compensation. Is Amelia's scope and AN set up for the latest versions? If not you might want to upgrade to those as there were significant adds to each of them.?
?
-When you say - and I know its a day later and it looks like you didn't know even then, when you say "go below the horizon"... what does that mean? The AN doesn't actually say that. Do you mean it had an offset for a GOTO that would have taken it below the horizon? With the latest version (and I believe earlier ones) the system would not allow a GOTO below the horizon - the AN would do a down beat - bee...booooooop telling the user that it was indeed an object below the horizon. There is no need to stop using the system at that point - just go to an object that is not below the horizon. Not sure why she gave up. IF you think that indeed as I suggested might be the case for the loooong GOTO's the night before - there might be a slipping DSC encoder, you could at that time (or any time) go to MODE ALT AZ and see if the ALT is indicating it is below the horizon. The AN and ServoCAT have LOTS of protections built in re the horizon. For example if you are tracking an object that sets - the ALT tracking will stop at the horizon (the AZ will continue on). And as mentioned it won't allow a GOTO to an object below the horizon. Further remember that the horizon is as the AN sees it to be from the initial alignment. IF there is a slipping encoder this would of course mess with that potentially. Also - there is a parameter, I believe under SETUP GOTO that allows you to set a local horizon limit. So for example if you have trees all around that limit visibility to no lower than 20° you can program that in. That will then become the local horizon limit. I have mine set to I believe 12° just because I don't want to look through 10+ atmospheres near the horizon nor jeopardize the main mirror moving (tipping).?
?
-re your Gen3 HC. You might want to invest in a spare HC cable. Bill can sell that to you or you can find it online (unknown quality) by looking for a handset cable with a 4 pin RJ22 connector wired as a 'voice' cable.?
?
If it is the connector inside the HC or inside the ServoCAT that would be more work - but that is extremely rare.?
?
You can test the cable by plugging it in (during the day is fine) ... looking at the lights on it. After power up (all lights turn on briefly as a check) it should go to the red GUIDE fast light being on as well as the green GOTO. Wiggle the cable at one end a bunch of times and see if it restarts (lights off and then all lights back on briefly). Repeat at both ends. If one end seems to do this action, and you're sure of it, then reverse the cable and try again at THAT end of the CABLE. So - you have it plugged in and wiggle the HC end. Nothing happens. You wiggle the ServoCAT end and it seems to cause the HC lights to reset... hold THIS end of the cable - unplug it and move it to the HC - THIS end is the suspicious end... plug in the now free end to the CAT. Now repeat by wiggling at the HC. If it does it again then it is indeed the cable. If not - and it does it again by now, again, wiggling at the ServoCAT then its the ServoCAT connection. Contact bill if you suspect it is a fixed connection and not the cable. My strong suspicious is it is the cable.?
?
Gary?
?
?
?
?
------ Original Message ------
Date 2/2/2025 7:21:41 AM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking
?
Thanks Gary.
Sorry I didn't see this before the evening so couldn't do the test.
?
We did, however, during the day unplug / replug all the data cables, from the 2 motors and the main box. We couldn't do the cable on the AZ motor with the plastic cover. Just could get my hands on it.
?
1. Last night everything went almost perfect. The tracking wasn't steady, had a slight drift that Amelia could live. NOTHING like we had seen the night before.
?
2. Later in the evening, while doing GOTO, the AN said go below the horizon. So the scope stopped when horizontal. I don't know what object Amelia put into the GOTO or thought she put in. So the rest of the night she ran without tracking ( like we did in the old days).
?
Meanwhile, back at Steve's scope, the handpad stopped working. I'm pretty sure its a connection at one of the RJ connectors. I can wiggle a connection point and the HP comes on, sometimes no lights, sometimes a weird set of lights.
?
Its getting cold for us, into the 40's. Remember, we're from the south, not North Dakota. So we called it a night.Amelia logged 2 objects, Steve 1.
?
Steve (going back to stamp collecting) Goldberg
On 02/01/2025 3:38 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Steve,
?
Ok ... try the test I had indicated - remove the DSC cable AT the front of the ServoCAT ... see if it then is fully controllable by the handpad.?
?
This is an important test - if the ServoCAT works a bunch of times w/o the DSC cable plugged in.?
?
If it does - and you see this (wrong) action again (note you can do a daytime alignment, doesn't need to be very accurate, just to test this all out so you can possibly fix it BEFORE it gets dark) ... check the GUIDE values on the DSC. Do they seem right? Are they 'going down' as the GOTO slew progresses? Also - try disengaging and seeing if the object is indeed at where you told it to go (of course this would be at night after a real alignment).?
?
You can also go to MODE ENCODER on the AN and see, as the ServoCAT moves, do the encoder values change.?
?
This could be a slipping or non-functional DSC encoder ... if the motor speed seems correct (important distinction) but it seems to take longer to do a GOTO then it might be that the AN is not getting encoder readout partially or at all.?
?
Daytime alignment:?
?
Point the scope straight up (assuming you have that as your ALT REF position) and north. Then turn on, do your FIX ALT REF. Now go to MODE ENCODER, enter. Now move the ALT ONLY down until it matches your LAT. Go to MODE ALIGN STAR, find Polaris, and hit enter. You now have 2/3rd of the alignment done...?
?
open a planetarium program, one that will show stars at the current time and show their current ALT/AZ position. Find one in the sky at that time - go to MODE ENCODER, move the scope to the ALT/AZ position it shows for that star (oh - bright star, so that it is in the BRIGHT STAR catalog)... now go back to ALIGN STAR, enter, find that star - hit enter. You're now aligned. (of course for this you do need the DSC cable plugged in the whole time)
?
g.
?
?
?
------ Original Message ------
Date 2/1/2025 4:28:25 PM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking
?
Gary and Bill,
You are making us think back a couple of hours after we have slept. ;)
?
This was the first GOTO of the night. The object was not in the field, too much power eyepiece. Changed to a lower power, then pushed a button to move the scope. She claimed it was moving too fast. So I moved the "speed button" down to the slower speed. She then pushed another button and the scope kept going at the same slower speed, Did the 3-button stop. Pressed a button for 2 seconds or more to reset, and when taking finger off the button the scope kept moving. We did several times.
?
Gary, you asked about the speed of the movement. The speed was the same as the last slew speed? button push. Don't think it was accelerating, we didn't let run that long to see.
?
That is where were stopped for the night.
?
Steve & Amelia
On 02/01/2025 1:19 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Steve and Amelia,?
?
Questions for you... you said Amelia did a GOTO and had no issue... was that the first GOTO or was that later in the session (you mention you were tired indicating possibly it had been working for a while)??
?
When you say "the scope kept moving, faster than tracking" ... did it appear to accelerate to a stable speed - then continue at a (stable) speed OR did it continue to speed up going much faster than the SLEW rate (rate you'd see when doing a GOTO)??
?
Try unplugging the DSC cable from the front of the ServoCAT --- then see if the HC can control the scope for slewing. Push the button - does it accelerate up to speed, go at a constant speed as long as you are holding a button, then decelerate to a stop when you let go of the button??
?
Does it operate in JOG speed the same, only slower overall??
?
If the motor encoder were not being seen the motor would, due to lack of feedback from its encoder, speed up VERY fast with no perceptible acceleration and it would not stop with a 3 button stop (it MIGHT stop ?- but rarely and only randomly - and it would start up again pretty fast).?
?
Gary?
?
?
?
?
|
And good morning to you, too.
FYI for future reference, we both have the 15" Obsession Classic. "Dueling Telescopes"
As for s/w versions of our SC, I doubt they are the latest. I'll have to figure out / find somebody that can update the scopes. I have a new AN, but Amelia's AN is probably an older version.
?
When I talked about Amelia's going to the horizon, the tube was actually horizontal to the ground.So the rocker box stopped it. She tried to get to it for a 3-button stop but couldn't in time. I think I remember seeing the AN guide number with <down arrow> number so it still wanted to go more. At that point she said turn off the AN and she'll observe without tracking. Now we know we can try going to another object and keep going.
?
As for my HC, coming out of the HC is a coiled extension cable, with a RJ connector to the cable at the top of the stalk. I think the problem is one of the RJ pin wire at this connector point. Today I will try your suggestion trying to locate the issue. My gut felling it is NOT inside the HC or SC box. Whew..
?
Gary,
Thanks again for the reply and things to try.
Steve Goldberg
On 02/02/2025 7:39 AM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Good morning Steve and Amelia,
?
Ok ... so mostly good operation last night. A few comments re what you posted:
?
-any 'drift' might be caused by not having done the backlash compensation. Is Amelia's scope and AN set up for the latest versions? If not you might want to upgrade to those as there were significant adds to each of them.?
?
-When you say - and I know its a day later and it looks like you didn't know even then, when you say "go below the horizon"... what does that mean? The AN doesn't actually say that. Do you mean it had an offset for a GOTO that would have taken it below the horizon? With the latest version (and I believe earlier ones) the system would not allow a GOTO below the horizon - the AN would do a down beat - bee...booooooop telling the user that it was indeed an object below the horizon. There is no need to stop using the system at that point - just go to an object that is not below the horizon. Not sure why she gave up. IF you think that indeed as I suggested might be the case for the loooong GOTO's the night before - there might be a slipping DSC encoder, you could at that time (or any time) go to MODE ALT AZ and see if the ALT is indicating it is below the horizon. The AN and ServoCAT have LOTS of protections built in re the horizon. For example if you are tracking an object that sets - the ALT tracking will stop at the horizon (the AZ will continue on). And as mentioned it won't allow a GOTO to an object below the horizon. Further remember that the horizon is as the AN sees it to be from the initial alignment. IF there is a slipping encoder this would of course mess with that potentially. Also - there is a parameter, I believe under SETUP GOTO that allows you to set a local horizon limit. So for example if you have trees all around that limit visibility to no lower than 20° you can program that in. That will then become the local horizon limit. I have mine set to I believe 12° just because I don't want to look through 10+ atmospheres near the horizon nor jeopardize the main mirror moving (tipping).?
?
-re your Gen3 HC. You might want to invest in a spare HC cable. Bill can sell that to you or you can find it online (unknown quality) by looking for a handset cable with a 4 pin RJ22 connector wired as a 'voice' cable.?
?
If it is the connector inside the HC or inside the ServoCAT that would be more work - but that is extremely rare.?
?
You can test the cable by plugging it in (during the day is fine) ... looking at the lights on it. After power up (all lights turn on briefly as a check) it should go to the red GUIDE fast light being on as well as the green GOTO. Wiggle the cable at one end a bunch of times and see if it restarts (lights off and then all lights back on briefly). Repeat at both ends. If one end seems to do this action, and you're sure of it, then reverse the cable and try again at THAT end of the CABLE. So - you have it plugged in and wiggle the HC end. Nothing happens. You wiggle the ServoCAT end and it seems to cause the HC lights to reset... hold THIS end of the cable - unplug it and move it to the HC - THIS end is the suspicious end... plug in the now free end to the CAT. Now repeat by wiggling at the HC. If it does it again then it is indeed the cable. If not - and it does it again by now, again, wiggling at the ServoCAT then its the ServoCAT connection. Contact bill if you suspect it is a fixed connection and not the cable. My strong suspicious is it is the cable.?
?
Gary?
?
?
?
?
------ Original Message ------
Date 2/2/2025 7:21:41 AM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking
?
Thanks Gary.
Sorry I didn't see this before the evening so couldn't do the test.
?
We did, however, during the day unplug / replug all the data cables, from the 2 motors and the main box. We couldn't do the cable on the AZ motor with the plastic cover. Just could get my hands on it.
?
1. Last night everything went almost perfect. The tracking wasn't steady, had a slight drift that Amelia could live. NOTHING like we had seen the night before.
?
2. Later in the evening, while doing GOTO, the AN said go below the horizon. So the scope stopped when horizontal. I don't know what object Amelia put into the GOTO or thought she put in. So the rest of the night she ran without tracking ( like we did in the old days).
?
Meanwhile, back at Steve's scope, the handpad stopped working. I'm pretty sure its a connection at one of the RJ connectors. I can wiggle a connection point and the HP comes on, sometimes no lights, sometimes a weird set of lights.
?
Its getting cold for us, into the 40's. Remember, we're from the south, not North Dakota. So we called it a night.Amelia logged 2 objects, Steve 1.
?
Steve (going back to stamp collecting) Goldberg
On 02/01/2025 3:38 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Steve,
?
Ok ... try the test I had indicated - remove the DSC cable AT the front of the ServoCAT ... see if it then is fully controllable by the handpad.?
?
This is an important test - if the ServoCAT works a bunch of times w/o the DSC cable plugged in.?
?
If it does - and you see this (wrong) action again (note you can do a daytime alignment, doesn't need to be very accurate, just to test this all out so you can possibly fix it BEFORE it gets dark) ... check the GUIDE values on the DSC. Do they seem right? Are they 'going down' as the GOTO slew progresses? Also - try disengaging and seeing if the object is indeed at where you told it to go (of course this would be at night after a real alignment).?
?
You can also go to MODE ENCODER on the AN and see, as the ServoCAT moves, do the encoder values change.?
?
This could be a slipping or non-functional DSC encoder ... if the motor speed seems correct (important distinction) but it seems to take longer to do a GOTO then it might be that the AN is not getting encoder readout partially or at all.?
?
Daytime alignment:?
?
Point the scope straight up (assuming you have that as your ALT REF position) and north. Then turn on, do your FIX ALT REF. Now go to MODE ENCODER, enter. Now move the ALT ONLY down until it matches your LAT. Go to MODE ALIGN STAR, find Polaris, and hit enter. You now have 2/3rd of the alignment done...?
?
open a planetarium program, one that will show stars at the current time and show their current ALT/AZ position. Find one in the sky at that time - go to MODE ENCODER, move the scope to the ALT/AZ position it shows for that star (oh - bright star, so that it is in the BRIGHT STAR catalog)... now go back to ALIGN STAR, enter, find that star - hit enter. You're now aligned. (of course for this you do need the DSC cable plugged in the whole time)
?
g.
?
?
?
------ Original Message ------
Date 2/1/2025 4:28:25 PM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking
?
Gary and Bill,
You are making us think back a couple of hours after we have slept. ;)
?
This was the first GOTO of the night. The object was not in the field, too much power eyepiece. Changed to a lower power, then pushed a button to move the scope. She claimed it was moving too fast. So I moved the "speed button" down to the slower speed. She then pushed another button and the scope kept going at the same slower speed, Did the 3-button stop. Pressed a button for 2 seconds or more to reset, and when taking finger off the button the scope kept moving. We did several times.
?
Gary, you asked about the speed of the movement. The speed was the same as the last slew speed? button push. Don't think it was accelerating, we didn't let run that long to see.
?
That is where were stopped for the night.
?
Steve & Amelia
On 02/01/2025 1:19 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Steve and Amelia,?
?
Questions for you... you said Amelia did a GOTO and had no issue... was that the first GOTO or was that later in the session (you mention you were tired indicating possibly it had been working for a while)??
?
When you say "the scope kept moving, faster than tracking" ... did it appear to accelerate to a stable speed - then continue at a (stable) speed OR did it continue to speed up going much faster than the SLEW rate (rate you'd see when doing a GOTO)??
?
Try unplugging the DSC cable from the front of the ServoCAT --- then see if the HC can control the scope for slewing. Push the button - does it accelerate up to speed, go at a constant speed as long as you are holding a button, then decelerate to a stop when you let go of the button??
?
Does it operate in JOG speed the same, only slower overall??
?
If the motor encoder were not being seen the motor would, due to lack of feedback from its encoder, speed up VERY fast with no perceptible acceleration and it would not stop with a 3 button stop (it MIGHT stop ?- but rarely and only randomly - and it would start up again pretty fast).?
?
Gary?
?
?
?
?
|
Good morning Steve and Amelia,
Ok ... so mostly good operation last night. A few comments re what you posted:
-any 'drift' might be caused by not having done the backlash compensation. Is Amelia's scope and AN set up for the latest versions? If not you might want to upgrade to those as there were significant adds to each of them.?
-When you say - and I know its a day later and it looks like you didn't know even then, when you say "go below the horizon"... what does that mean? The AN doesn't actually say that. Do you mean it had an offset for a GOTO that would have taken it below the horizon? With the latest version (and I believe earlier ones) the system would not allow a GOTO below the horizon - the AN would do a down beat - bee...booooooop telling the user that it was indeed an object below the horizon. There is no need to stop using the system at that point - just go to an object that is not below the horizon. Not sure why she gave up. IF you think that indeed as I suggested might be the case for the loooong GOTO's the night before - there might be a slipping DSC encoder, you could at that time (or any time) go to MODE ALT AZ and see if the ALT is indicating it is below the horizon. The AN and ServoCAT have LOTS of protections built in re the horizon. For example if you are tracking an object that sets - the ALT tracking will stop at the horizon (the AZ will continue on). And as mentioned it won't allow a GOTO to an object below the horizon. Further remember that the horizon is as the AN sees it to be from the initial alignment. IF there is a slipping encoder this would of course mess with that potentially. Also - there is a parameter, I believe under SETUP GOTO that allows you to set a local horizon limit. So for example if you have trees all around that limit visibility to no lower than 20° you can program that in. That will then become the local horizon limit. I have mine set to I believe 12° just because I don't want to look through 10+ atmospheres near the horizon nor jeopardize the main mirror moving (tipping).?
-re your Gen3 HC. You might want to invest in a spare HC cable. Bill can sell that to you or you can find it online (unknown quality) by looking for a handset cable with a 4 pin RJ22 connector wired as a 'voice' cable.?
If it is the connector inside the HC or inside the ServoCAT that would be more work - but that is extremely rare.?
You can test the cable by plugging it in (during the day is fine) ... looking at the lights on it. After power up (all lights turn on briefly as a check) it should go to the red GUIDE fast light being on as well as the green GOTO. Wiggle the cable at one end a bunch of times and see if it restarts (lights off and then all lights back on briefly). Repeat at both ends. If one end seems to do this action, and you're sure of it, then reverse the cable and try again at THAT end of the CABLE. So - you have it plugged in and wiggle the HC end. Nothing happens. You wiggle the ServoCAT end and it seems to cause the HC lights to reset... hold THIS end of the cable - unplug it and move it to the HC - THIS end is the suspicious end... plug in the now free end to the CAT. Now repeat by wiggling at the HC. If it does it again then it is indeed the cable. If not - and it does it again by now, again, wiggling at the ServoCAT then its the ServoCAT connection. Contact bill if you suspect it is a fixed connection and not the cable. My strong suspicious is it is the cable.?
Gary?
------ Original Message ------
Date 2/2/2025 7:21:41 AM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking
Thanks Gary.
Sorry I didn't see this before the evening so couldn't do the test.
?
We did, however, during the day unplug / replug all the data cables, from the 2 motors and the main box. We couldn't do the cable on the AZ motor with the plastic cover. Just could get my hands on it.
?
1. Last night everything went almost perfect. The tracking wasn't steady, had a slight drift that Amelia could live. NOTHING like we had seen the night before.
?
2. Later in the evening, while doing GOTO, the AN said go below the horizon. So the scope stopped when horizontal. I don't know what object Amelia put into the GOTO or thought she put in. So the rest of the night she ran without tracking ( like we did in the old days).
?
Meanwhile, back at Steve's scope, the handpad stopped working. I'm pretty sure its a connection at one of the RJ connectors. I can wiggle a connection point and the HP comes on, sometimes no lights, sometimes a weird set of lights.
?
Its getting cold for us, into the 40's. Remember, we're from the south, not North Dakota. So we called it a night.Amelia logged 2 objects, Steve 1.
?
Steve (going back to stamp collecting) Goldberg
On 02/01/2025 3:38 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Steve,
?
Ok ... try the test I had indicated - remove the DSC cable AT the front of the ServoCAT ... see if it then is fully controllable by the handpad.?
?
This is an important test - if the ServoCAT works a bunch of times w/o the DSC cable plugged in.?
?
If it does - and you see this (wrong) action again (note you can do a daytime alignment, doesn't need to be very accurate, just to test this all out so you can possibly fix it BEFORE it gets dark) ... check the GUIDE values on the DSC. Do they seem right? Are they 'going down' as the GOTO slew progresses? Also - try disengaging and seeing if the object is indeed at where you told it to go (of course this would be at night after a real alignment).?
?
You can also go to MODE ENCODER on the AN and see, as the ServoCAT moves, do the encoder values change.?
?
This could be a slipping or non-functional DSC encoder ... if the motor speed seems correct (important distinction) but it seems to take longer to do a GOTO then it might be that the AN is not getting encoder readout partially or at all.?
?
Daytime alignment:?
?
Point the scope straight up (assuming you have that as your ALT REF position) and north. Then turn on, do your FIX ALT REF. Now go to MODE ENCODER, enter. Now move the ALT ONLY down until it matches your LAT. Go to MODE ALIGN STAR, find Polaris, and hit enter. You now have 2/3rd of the alignment done...?
?
open a planetarium program, one that will show stars at the current time and show their current ALT/AZ position. Find one in the sky at that time - go to MODE ENCODER, move the scope to the ALT/AZ position it shows for that star (oh - bright star, so that it is in the BRIGHT STAR catalog)... now go back to ALIGN STAR, enter, find that star - hit enter. You're now aligned. (of course for this you do need the DSC cable plugged in the whole time)
?
g.
?
?
?
------ Original Message ------
Date 2/1/2025 4:28:25 PM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking
?
Gary and Bill,
You are making us think back a couple of hours after we have slept. ;)
?
This was the first GOTO of the night. The object was not in the field, too much power eyepiece. Changed to a lower power, then pushed a button to move the scope. She claimed it was moving too fast. So I moved the "speed button" down to the slower speed. She then pushed another button and the scope kept going at the same slower speed, Did the 3-button stop. Pressed a button for 2 seconds or more to reset, and when taking finger off the button the scope kept moving. We did several times.
?
Gary, you asked about the speed of the movement. The speed was the same as the last slew speed? button push. Don't think it was accelerating, we didn't let run that long to see.
?
That is where were stopped for the night.
?
Steve & Amelia
On 02/01/2025 1:19 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Steve and Amelia,?
?
Questions for you... you said Amelia did a GOTO and had no issue... was that the first GOTO or was that later in the session (you mention you were tired indicating possibly it had been working for a while)??
?
When you say "the scope kept moving, faster than tracking" ... did it appear to accelerate to a stable speed - then continue at a (stable) speed OR did it continue to speed up going much faster than the SLEW rate (rate you'd see when doing a GOTO)??
?
Try unplugging the DSC cable from the front of the ServoCAT --- then see if the HC can control the scope for slewing. Push the button - does it accelerate up to speed, go at a constant speed as long as you are holding a button, then decelerate to a stop when you let go of the button??
?
Does it operate in JOG speed the same, only slower overall??
?
If the motor encoder were not being seen the motor would, due to lack of feedback from its encoder, speed up VERY fast with no perceptible acceleration and it would not stop with a 3 button stop (it MIGHT stop ?- but rarely and only randomly - and it would start up again pretty fast).?
?
Gary?
?
?
|
Thanks Gary.
Sorry I didn't see this before the evening so couldn't do the test.
?
We did, however, during the day unplug / replug all the data cables, from the 2 motors and the main box. We couldn't do the cable on the AZ motor with the plastic cover. Just could get my hands on it.
?
1. Last night everything went almost perfect. The tracking wasn't steady, had a slight drift that Amelia could live. NOTHING like we had seen the night before.
?
2. Later in the evening, while doing GOTO, the AN said go below the horizon. So the scope stopped when horizontal. I don't know what object Amelia put into the GOTO or thought she put in. So the rest of the night she ran without tracking ( like we did in the old days).
?
Meanwhile, back at Steve's scope, the handpad stopped working. I'm pretty sure its a connection at one of the RJ connectors. I can wiggle a connection point and the HP comes on, sometimes no lights, sometimes a weird set of lights.
?
Its getting cold for us, into the 40's. Remember, we're from the south, not North Dakota. So we called it a night.Amelia logged 2 objects, Steve 1.
?
Steve (going back to stamp collecting) Goldberg
On 02/01/2025 3:38 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Steve,
?
Ok ... try the test I had indicated - remove the DSC cable AT the front of the ServoCAT ... see if it then is fully controllable by the handpad.?
?
This is an important test - if the ServoCAT works a bunch of times w/o the DSC cable plugged in.?
?
If it does - and you see this (wrong) action again (note you can do a daytime alignment, doesn't need to be very accurate, just to test this all out so you can possibly fix it BEFORE it gets dark) ... check the GUIDE values on the DSC. Do they seem right? Are they 'going down' as the GOTO slew progresses? Also - try disengaging and seeing if the object is indeed at where you told it to go (of course this would be at night after a real alignment).?
?
You can also go to MODE ENCODER on the AN and see, as the ServoCAT moves, do the encoder values change.?
?
This could be a slipping or non-functional DSC encoder ... if the motor speed seems correct (important distinction) but it seems to take longer to do a GOTO then it might be that the AN is not getting encoder readout partially or at all.?
?
Daytime alignment:?
?
Point the scope straight up (assuming you have that as your ALT REF position) and north. Then turn on, do your FIX ALT REF. Now go to MODE ENCODER, enter. Now move the ALT ONLY down until it matches your LAT. Go to MODE ALIGN STAR, find Polaris, and hit enter. You now have 2/3rd of the alignment done...?
?
open a planetarium program, one that will show stars at the current time and show their current ALT/AZ position. Find one in the sky at that time - go to MODE ENCODER, move the scope to the ALT/AZ position it shows for that star (oh - bright star, so that it is in the BRIGHT STAR catalog)... now go back to ALIGN STAR, enter, find that star - hit enter. You're now aligned. (of course for this you do need the DSC cable plugged in the whole time)
?
g.
?
?
?
------ Original Message ------
Date 2/1/2025 4:28:25 PM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking
?
Gary and Bill,
You are making us think back a couple of hours after we have slept. ;)
?
This was the first GOTO of the night. The object was not in the field, too much power eyepiece. Changed to a lower power, then pushed a button to move the scope. She claimed it was moving too fast. So I moved the "speed button" down to the slower speed. She then pushed another button and the scope kept going at the same slower speed, Did the 3-button stop. Pressed a button for 2 seconds or more to reset, and when taking finger off the button the scope kept moving. We did several times.
?
Gary, you asked about the speed of the movement. The speed was the same as the last slew speed? button push. Don't think it was accelerating, we didn't let run that long to see.
?
That is where were stopped for the night.
?
Steve & Amelia
On 02/01/2025 1:19 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Steve and Amelia,?
?
Questions for you... you said Amelia did a GOTO and had no issue... was that the first GOTO or was that later in the session (you mention you were tired indicating possibly it had been working for a while)??
?
When you say "the scope kept moving, faster than tracking" ... did it appear to accelerate to a stable speed - then continue at a (stable) speed OR did it continue to speed up going much faster than the SLEW rate (rate you'd see when doing a GOTO)??
?
Try unplugging the DSC cable from the front of the ServoCAT --- then see if the HC can control the scope for slewing. Push the button - does it accelerate up to speed, go at a constant speed as long as you are holding a button, then decelerate to a stop when you let go of the button??
?
Does it operate in JOG speed the same, only slower overall??
?
If the motor encoder were not being seen the motor would, due to lack of feedback from its encoder, speed up VERY fast with no perceptible acceleration and it would not stop with a 3 button stop (it MIGHT stop ?- but rarely and only randomly - and it would start up again pretty fast).?
?
Gary?
?
?
|
Re: Pegasus SmartEye Camera
Fernando- I think in many ways the views will be better because they will be full color. I am guessing the unit will be very heavy in the focuser so will probably need a pretty good focuser.
|
Steve: see response I just sent (since I was writing one when this came in)
------ Original Message ------
Date 2/1/2025 4:34:50 PM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking
Bill,
How can we do this during the day?
Yea, can point the scope randomly in the sky. Set slew speed high, stop set slew peed to slow. But would be able to hear the motor running? When at the slow speed?
Or is there something else to watch for in the daylight?
?
Steve
On 02/01/2025 1:03 PM CST Bill Conrad <bill@...> wrote:
?
?
If you are near the telescope then do the testing ASAP. No need to wait for dark.
BC
On 2/1/2025 12:45 PM, Steve Goldberg via groups.io wrote:
Thanks Bill.
?
We didn't notice which direction it was drifting.
?
Today we'll try unplug / plug in all the cables to clean them. We don't have the Deoxit with us here. We may find some at a WalMart or hardware store near by.
?
We do plan to be here (Houston Astronomical Society Dark Site) for another 2 nights.
?
And a correction: She has Gen 2, the hand controller has the slide switch for the slew speed. I have the Gen 3 on my scope.
?
I'll let you know what we find out after tonight.
?
Steve Goldberg
On 02/01/2025 11:11 AM CST Bill Conrad <bill@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Steve:
Which axis is running away?
The runaway indicates a disconnect of the motor encoder to the ServoCAT box.
1. It could be a broken cable - the lighter weight 4P4C cable between the motor and the ServoCAT box.
2. It could be dirty or corroded contacts at either end of the encoder cable.
3. It could be a failure on the circuit board mounted on the motor.
To test:
1. Dis-engage the latch for the problem axis.
2. Unplug and plug each end of the encoder cable (to clean the contacts).
3. Try running the motor for that axis using the hand-controller again.
If it is just dirty contacts, you may want to try using some Deoxit. If you do this be sure to allow it to dry before applying power again.
In the worst case - if your motor board is failed - you can return the motor/gearbox assembly to me and I can replace the board ($49.00).
Regards
BC
On 2/1/2025 11:31 AM, Steve Goldberg via groups.io wrote:
Hi,
We, well my wife Amelia, has a 15" Obsession with ServoCat (believe Gen 3) and Argo Navis.
Last night she did a GoTO to an object. No problem.
The object was slightly off center so she pressed one of the buttons to center. But the scope kept moving, faster than just tracking. Only way to stop was 3-button, which it did. Then pressing another button for 2+ seconds, the scope picked up continued to move again at the same rate.
?
We couldn't get it out of that mode. It was late, we were tired so just pulled the power to the scope, covered and shut down.
?
Any thoughts on how to stop this from happening again?
Thanks
Steve Goldberg
|
Steve,
Ok ... try the test I had indicated - remove the DSC cable AT the front of the ServoCAT ... see if it then is fully controllable by the handpad.?
This is an important test - if the ServoCAT works a bunch of times w/o the DSC cable plugged in.?
If it does - and you see this (wrong) action again (note you can do a daytime alignment, doesn't need to be very accurate, just to test this all out so you can possibly fix it BEFORE it gets dark) ... check the GUIDE values on the DSC. Do they seem right? Are they 'going down' as the GOTO slew progresses? Also - try disengaging and seeing if the object is indeed at where you told it to go (of course this would be at night after a real alignment).?
You can also go to MODE ENCODER on the AN and see, as the ServoCAT moves, do the encoder values change.?
This could be a slipping or non-functional DSC encoder ... if the motor speed seems correct (important distinction) but it seems to take longer to do a GOTO then it might be that the AN is not getting encoder readout partially or at all.?
Daytime alignment:?
Point the scope straight up (assuming you have that as your ALT REF position) and north. Then turn on, do your FIX ALT REF. Now go to MODE ENCODER, enter. Now move the ALT ONLY down until it matches your LAT. Go to MODE ALIGN STAR, find Polaris, and hit enter. You now have 2/3rd of the alignment done...?
open a planetarium program, one that will show stars at the current time and show their current ALT/AZ position. Find one in the sky at that time - go to MODE ENCODER, move the scope to the ALT/AZ position it shows for that star (oh - bright star, so that it is in the BRIGHT STAR catalog)... now go back to ALIGN STAR, enter, find that star - hit enter. You're now aligned. (of course for this you do need the DSC cable plugged in the whole time)
g.
------ Original Message ------
Date 2/1/2025 4:28:25 PM
Subject Re: [ServoCAT] Runaway tracking
Gary and Bill,
You are making us think back a couple of hours after we have slept. ;)
?
This was the first GOTO of the night. The object was not in the field, too much power eyepiece. Changed to a lower power, then pushed a button to move the scope. She claimed it was moving too fast. So I moved the "speed button" down to the slower speed. She then pushed another button and the scope kept going at the same slower speed, Did the 3-button stop. Pressed a button for 2 seconds or more to reset, and when taking finger off the button the scope kept moving. We did several times.
?
Gary, you asked about the speed of the movement. The speed was the same as the last slew speed? button push. Don't think it was accelerating, we didn't let run that long to see.
?
That is where were stopped for the night.
?
Steve & Amelia
On 02/01/2025 1:19 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Steve and Amelia,?
?
Questions for you... you said Amelia did a GOTO and had no issue... was that the first GOTO or was that later in the session (you mention you were tired indicating possibly it had been working for a while)??
?
When you say "the scope kept moving, faster than tracking" ... did it appear to accelerate to a stable speed - then continue at a (stable) speed OR did it continue to speed up going much faster than the SLEW rate (rate you'd see when doing a GOTO)??
?
Try unplugging the DSC cable from the front of the ServoCAT --- then see if the HC can control the scope for slewing. Push the button - does it accelerate up to speed, go at a constant speed as long as you are holding a button, then decelerate to a stop when you let go of the button??
?
Does it operate in JOG speed the same, only slower overall??
?
If the motor encoder were not being seen the motor would, due to lack of feedback from its encoder, speed up VERY fast with no perceptible acceleration and it would not stop with a 3 button stop (it MIGHT stop ?- but rarely and only randomly - and it would start up again pretty fast).?
?
Gary?
|
Bill,
How can we do this during the day?
Yea, can point the scope randomly in the sky. Set slew speed high, stop set slew peed to slow. But would be able to hear the motor running? When at the slow speed?
Or is there something else to watch for in the daylight?
?
Steve
On 02/01/2025 1:03 PM CST Bill Conrad <bill@...> wrote:
?
?
If you are near the telescope then do the testing ASAP. No need to wait for dark.
BC
On 2/1/2025 12:45 PM, Steve Goldberg via groups.io wrote:
Thanks Bill.
?
We didn't notice which direction it was drifting.
?
Today we'll try unplug / plug in all the cables to clean them. We don't have the Deoxit with us here. We may find some at a WalMart or hardware store near by.
?
We do plan to be here (Houston Astronomical Society Dark Site) for another 2 nights.
?
And a correction: She has Gen 2, the hand controller has the slide switch for the slew speed. I have the Gen 3 on my scope.
?
I'll let you know what we find out after tonight.
?
Steve Goldberg
On 02/01/2025 11:11 AM CST Bill Conrad <bill@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Steve:
Which axis is running away?
The runaway indicates a disconnect of the motor encoder to the ServoCAT box.
1. It could be a broken cable - the lighter weight 4P4C cable between the motor and the ServoCAT box.
2. It could be dirty or corroded contacts at either end of the encoder cable.
3. It could be a failure on the circuit board mounted on the motor.
To test:
1. Dis-engage the latch for the problem axis.
2. Unplug and plug each end of the encoder cable (to clean the contacts).
3. Try running the motor for that axis using the hand-controller again.
If it is just dirty contacts, you may want to try using some Deoxit. If you do this be sure to allow it to dry before applying power again.
In the worst case - if your motor board is failed - you can return the motor/gearbox assembly to me and I can replace the board ($49.00).
Regards
BC
On 2/1/2025 11:31 AM, Steve Goldberg via groups.io wrote:
Hi,
We, well my wife Amelia, has a 15" Obsession with ServoCat (believe Gen 3) and Argo Navis.
Last night she did a GoTO to an object. No problem.
The object was slightly off center so she pressed one of the buttons to center. But the scope kept moving, faster than just tracking. Only way to stop was 3-button, which it did. Then pressing another button for 2+ seconds, the scope picked up continued to move again at the same rate.
?
We couldn't get it out of that mode. It was late, we were tired so just pulled the power to the scope, covered and shut down.
?
Any thoughts on how to stop this from happening again?
Thanks
Steve Goldberg
|
Gary and Bill,
You are making us think back a couple of hours after we have slept. ;)
?
This was the first GOTO of the night. The object was not in the field, too much power eyepiece. Changed to a lower power, then pushed a button to move the scope. She claimed it was moving too fast. So I moved the "speed button" down to the slower speed. She then pushed another button and the scope kept going at the same slower speed, Did the 3-button stop. Pressed a button for 2 seconds or more to reset, and when taking finger off the button the scope kept moving. We did several times.
?
Gary, you asked about the speed of the movement. The speed was the same as the last slew speed? button push. Don't think it was accelerating, we didn't let run that long to see.
?
That is where were stopped for the night.
?
Steve & Amelia
On 02/01/2025 1:19 PM CST K9RX - Gary via groups.io <amateurk9rx@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Steve and Amelia,?
?
Questions for you... you said Amelia did a GOTO and had no issue... was that the first GOTO or was that later in the session (you mention you were tired indicating possibly it had been working for a while)??
?
When you say "the scope kept moving, faster than tracking" ... did it appear to accelerate to a stable speed - then continue at a (stable) speed OR did it continue to speed up going much faster than the SLEW rate (rate you'd see when doing a GOTO)??
?
Try unplugging the DSC cable from the front of the ServoCAT --- then see if the HC can control the scope for slewing. Push the button - does it accelerate up to speed, go at a constant speed as long as you are holding a button, then decelerate to a stop when you let go of the button??
?
Does it operate in JOG speed the same, only slower overall??
?
If the motor encoder were not being seen the motor would, due to lack of feedback from its encoder, speed up VERY fast with no perceptible acceleration and it would not stop with a 3 button stop (it MIGHT stop ?- but rarely and only randomly - and it would start up again pretty fast).?
?
Gary?
|
Hi Steve and Amelia,?
?
Questions for you... you said Amelia did a GOTO and had no issue... was that the first GOTO or was that later in the session (you mention you were tired indicating possibly it had been working for a while)??
?
When you say "the scope kept moving, faster than tracking" ... did it appear to accelerate to a stable speed - then continue at a (stable) speed OR did it continue to speed up going much faster than the SLEW rate (rate you'd see when doing a GOTO)??
?
Try unplugging the DSC cable from the front of the ServoCAT --- then see if the HC can control the scope for slewing. Push the button - does it accelerate up to speed, go at a constant speed as long as you are holding a button, then decelerate to a stop when you let go of the button??
?
Does it operate in JOG speed the same, only slower overall??
?
If the motor encoder were not being seen the motor would, due to lack of feedback from its encoder, speed up VERY fast with no perceptible acceleration and it would not stop with a 3 button stop (it MIGHT stop ?- but rarely and only randomly - and it would start up again pretty fast).?
?
Gary?
|
If you are near the telescope then do
the testing ASAP. No need to wait for dark.
BC
On 2/1/2025 12:45 PM, Steve Goldberg via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Thanks
Bill.
?
We didn't
notice which direction it was drifting.
?
Today
we'll try unplug / plug in all the cables to clean them. We
don't have the Deoxit with us here. We may find some at a
WalMart or hardware store near by.
?
We do
plan to be here (Houston Astronomical Society Dark Site) for
another 2 nights.
?
And a
correction: She has Gen 2, the hand controller has the slide
switch for the slew speed. I have the Gen 3 on my scope.
?
I'll let
you know what we find out after tonight.
?
Steve
Goldberg
On 02/01/2025 11:11 AM CST Bill Conrad
<bill@...> wrote: ?
?
Hi Steve:
Which axis is running away?
The runaway indicates a disconnect of the motor encoder to the
ServoCAT box.
1. It could be a broken cable - the lighter weight 4P4C cable
between the motor and the ServoCAT box.
2. It could be dirty or corroded contacts at either end of the
encoder cable.
3. It could be a failure on the circuit board mounted on the
motor.
To test:
1. Dis-engage the latch for the problem axis.
2. Unplug and plug each end of the encoder cable (to clean the
contacts).
3. Try running the motor for that axis using the
hand-controller again.
If it is just dirty contacts, you may want to try using some
Deoxit. If you do this be sure to allow it to dry before
applying power again.
In the worst case - if your motor board is failed - you can
return the motor/gearbox assembly to me and I can replace the
board ($49.00).
Regards
BC
On 2/1/2025 11:31 AM, Steve Goldberg via groups.io wrote:
Hi,
We,
well my wife Amelia, has a 15" Obsession with ServoCat
(believe Gen 3) and Argo Navis.
Last
night she did a GoTO to an object. No problem.
The
object was slightly off center so she pressed one of the
buttons to center. But the scope kept moving, faster than
just tracking. Only way to stop was 3-button, which it
did. Then pressing another button for 2+ seconds, the
scope picked up continued to move again at the same rate.
?
We
couldn't get it out of that mode. It was late, we were
tired so just pulled the power to the scope, covered and
shut down.
?
Any
thoughts on how to stop this from happening again?
Thanks
Steve
Goldberg
|
Thanks Bill.
?
We didn't notice which direction it was drifting.
?
Today we'll try unplug / plug in all the cables to clean them. We don't have the Deoxit with us here. We may find some at a WalMart or hardware store near by.
?
We do plan to be here (Houston Astronomical Society Dark Site) for another 2 nights.
?
And a correction: She has Gen 2, the hand controller has the slide switch for the slew speed. I have the Gen 3 on my scope.
?
I'll let you know what we find out after tonight.
?
Steve Goldberg
On 02/01/2025 11:11 AM CST Bill Conrad <bill@...> wrote:
?
?
Hi Steve:
Which axis is running away?
The runaway indicates a disconnect of the motor encoder to the ServoCAT box.
1. It could be a broken cable - the lighter weight 4P4C cable between the motor and the ServoCAT box.
2. It could be dirty or corroded contacts at either end of the encoder cable.
3. It could be a failure on the circuit board mounted on the motor.
To test:
1. Dis-engage the latch for the problem axis.
2. Unplug and plug each end of the encoder cable (to clean the contacts).
3. Try running the motor for that axis using the hand-controller again.
If it is just dirty contacts, you may want to try using some Deoxit. If you do this be sure to allow it to dry before applying power again.
In the worst case - if your motor board is failed - you can return the motor/gearbox assembly to me and I can replace the board ($49.00).
Regards
BC
On 2/1/2025 11:31 AM, Steve Goldberg via groups.io wrote:
Hi,
We, well my wife Amelia, has a 15" Obsession with ServoCat (believe Gen 3) and Argo Navis.
Last night she did a GoTO to an object. No problem.
The object was slightly off center so she pressed one of the buttons to center. But the scope kept moving, faster than just tracking. Only way to stop was 3-button, which it did. Then pressing another button for 2+ seconds, the scope picked up continued to move again at the same rate.
?
We couldn't get it out of that mode. It was late, we were tired so just pulled the power to the scope, covered and shut down.
?
Any thoughts on how to stop this from happening again?
Thanks
Steve Goldberg
|
Hi Steve:
Which axis is running away?
The runaway indicates a disconnect of the motor encoder to the
ServoCAT box.
1. It could be a broken cable - the lighter weight 4P4C cable
between the motor and the ServoCAT box.
2. It could be dirty or corroded contacts at either end of the
encoder cable.
3. It could be a failure on the circuit board mounted on the
motor.
To test:
1. Dis-engage the latch for the problem axis.
2. Unplug and plug each end of the encoder cable (to clean the
contacts).
3. Try running the motor for that axis using the hand-controller
again.
If it is just dirty contacts, you may want to try using some
Deoxit. If you do this be sure to allow it to dry before applying
power again.
In the worst case - if your motor board is failed - you can return
the motor/gearbox assembly to me and I can replace the board
($49.00).
Regards
BC
On 2/1/2025 11:31 AM, Steve Goldberg via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi,
We, well
my wife Amelia, has a 15" Obsession with ServoCat (believe Gen
3) and Argo Navis.
Last
night she did a GoTO to an object. No problem.
The
object was slightly off center so she pressed one of the
buttons to center. But the scope kept moving, faster than just
tracking. Only way to stop was 3-button, which it did. Then
pressing another button for 2+ seconds, the scope picked up
continued to move again at the same rate.
?
We
couldn't get it out of that mode. It was late, we were tired
so just pulled the power to the scope, covered and shut down.
?
Any
thoughts on how to stop this from happening again?
Thanks
Steve
Goldberg
|
Hi,
We, well my wife Amelia, has a 15" Obsession with ServoCat (believe Gen 3) and Argo Navis.
Last night she did a GoTO to an object. No problem.
The object was slightly off center so she pressed one of the buttons to center. But the scope kept moving, faster than just tracking. Only way to stop was 3-button, which it did. Then pressing another button for 2+ seconds, the scope picked up continued to move again at the same rate.
?
We couldn't get it out of that mode. It was late, we were tired so just pulled the power to the scope, covered and shut down.
?
Any thoughts on how to stop this from happening again?
Thanks
Steve Goldberg
|
Gabriel Wiklund
Mike