Re: Bilge and Keel Bolts

#83

i haven't seen any torque specs unfortunately - there are some standard torque specs for certain size/grade stainless bolts - my guess is 100 ft lbs is probably ok - that is what i sort of did.

recommend using double nuts to ensure they stay torqued and tight - especially with stainless bolts.

Show quoted text

--- In s227classassociation@..., Bob Taylor <woodwork@...> wrote:

I've been wondering about my rusty keel blot washers too. Why in the 
world wouldn't they have been stainless?
I would like to replace them this spring as they are pretty crumbly.
How tight do we torque the nuts? (If it ever stops snowing.)

Thanks,

Bob

Re: Bilge and Keel Bolts

#82

i'll take a pix of my backing plate - 3/16" stainless plate about 2 x 2" with rounded corners and tapered edges to prevent any hard spots.

it seems that mild steel washers are common on lots of boats - not sure why.

i think the reason your bilge is different is that yours is a deck stepped mast vs keel stepped (i think).  but it would be very interesting to see what your bilge looks like - and how the hull is reinforced (assume there are some stringers athwart) unless the redesigned the pan liner and stuff completely - interesting how the design changes happen - but I do recall you mentioning having a deck stepped mast.

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--- In s227classassociation@..., "uswa174" <uswa174@...> wrote:

Hey Rick,

My keel bolts look similarly rusty to those in photo #5.  No real backing plates, per se, only large washers (~1.5" diameter) made from mild steel, and very rusted.  Washers are bedded with 3M 5200, so they are truly stuck in place, which is why I haven't replaced them yet.  Interesting to see your bilge photos, too.  The configuration of the bilge on your boat looks significantly different than that on my 1987 "B" model. I'll try to snap some pics next time I'm out at the boat (about 40 miles away), but I have one long rectangular (shallow) bilge, without compartments.  The ice box drains into the bilge, so that explains in part the rusty washers.

Dave S.
1987 S2 27
Hull #80

--- In s227classassociation@..., "s227classassociation" <rperret@> wrote:

Interested in seeing what other folks bilge and keel bolts look like - especially the backing plates.

i posted in files section some bilge shots when I first purchased the boat - i added some stainless backing plates since then.

Re: Bilge and Keel Bolts

#81

yes, in most salty water - long island sound.   the one near the mast seems to get wet due to water coming in from the mast.

re the interior pan to hull joint - its interesting that you have same issue too.  my guess is that they just "laid the pan" and didn't tab on the cabin sole side - you'll notice if you look under the berths the pan liner is properly tabbed to the hull - as long as those tabs aren't cracked then all is OK.  of course they did tab the pan onto the hull across the stringers - which is most critical since the stringers are spreading the hull and keel stress.

would be interested to know how you fixed the joint.

Rick

Show quoted text

--- In s227classassociation@..., "Mark" <Mark@...> wrote:

Are you in salt water? mine still look like new except for the one near the
mast.  I have cleaned them up from time to time but very little rust.  It
looks like maybe the nuts are not stainless.  I also have repaired the
interior mold to hull joint in about the same place where yours is
separating with West System resin and fiberglass cloth.



Interested in seeing what other folks bilge and keel bolts look like -
especially the backing plates.

i posted in files section some bilge shots when I first purchased the boat - 
i added some stainless backing plates since then.

Core repair project

#80

Here's a little pictorial of the chainplate area core repair I had to do last spring instead of launch early...

 Patch.htm

Bilge and Keel Bolts

#79

I've been wondering about my rusty keel blot washers too. Why in the world wouldn't they have been stainless?
I would like to replace them this spring as they are pretty crumbly.
How tight do we torque the nuts? (If it ever stops snowing.)

Thanks,

Bob

Re: Handrail refinish technique

#78

--- In s227classassociation@..., "s227classassociation" <rperret@...> wrote:
[snip]Once the rails are done, I reach a decision point...do I take the stand off tubes and bed them onto the rails first?  If I do it this way the only beddeing I need to do in the spring are the ends of the standoff tubes that lie against the cabin top.  Alternatively perhaps I could bed the tubes to the  cabin top first?  Then fit the rail after the fact??
[snip]

Rick, before I owned my 27, I had an S2 7.3 on which I reinstalled handrails after refinishing them.  I did NOT try to re-bed the SS standoff tubes first, then attach the handrails, or the other way around.  Rather, I installed the handrails and the tubes at the same time, in part because on the 7.3 one end of the standoff tube was not cut square at a 90 degree angle. So, the tube needed to be located in exactly the correct position, and rotated so that the bevel of the tube fit the angle of the coachroof.  Starting at the forward end, I test fitted each bolt with the rail and standoff tube as I went. I then gooped up each of the three holes (on the rail, standoff, masked off coachroof) with 3M 4200, then threaded the bolt though the handrail, then through the standoff tube, then though the coachroof.  My helper down below installed the washer and spun on the nut snug while I held the rail in place.  I did them one at a time, test fitting each as I went along.  The 7.3 handrails were not cut to fit the curve of the coachroof, so they had to be bent down in place, and held there while all this was happening.  The procedure took two people: me topsides, my helper down below (three people would have been better, with the third person to help me topsides with the bedding compound, which can get real messy--I really needed three hands!)  A day later, I snugged down the nuts tight from inside the cabin, while my helper up topsides kept the bolt from turning with a screwdriver--I didn't want to break the bedding compound seal.

Anyway, I hope this gives you some insight about what worked for me.

Cheers, and good luck.

Dave S.
1987 S2 27
Hull #80

Re: Bilge and Keel Bolts

#77

Hey Rick,

My keel bolts look similarly rusty to those in photo #5.  No real backing plates, per se, only large washers (~1.5" diameter) made from mild steel, and very rusted.  Washers are bedded with 3M 5200, so they are truly stuck in place, which is why I haven't replaced them yet.  Interesting to see your bilge photos, too.  The configuration of the bilge on your boat looks significantly different than that on my 1987 "B" model. I'll try to snap some pics next time I'm out at the boat (about 40 miles away), but I have one long rectangular (shallow) bilge, without compartments.  The ice box drains into the bilge, so that explains in part the rusty washers.

Dave S.
1987 S2 27
Hull #80

Show quoted text

--- In s227classassociation@..., "s227classassociation" <rperret@...> wrote:

Interested in seeing what other folks bilge and keel bolts look like - especially the backing plates.

i posted in files section some bilge shots when I first purchased the boat - i added some stainless backing plates since then.

Re: Bilge and Keel Bolts

#76

Are you in salt water? mine still look like new except for the one near the 
mast.  I have cleaned them up from time to time but very little rust.  It 
looks like maybe the nuts are not stainless.  I also have repaired the 
interior mold to hull joint in about the same place where yours is 
separating with West System resin and fiberglass cloth.



Interested in seeing what other folks bilge and keel bolts look like - 
especially the backing plates.

i posted in files section some bilge shots when I first purchased the boat - 
i added some stainless backing plates since then.

Bilge and Keel Bolts

#75

Interested in seeing what other folks bilge and keel bolts look like - especially the backing plates.

i posted in files section some bilge shots when I first purchased the boat - i added some stainless backing plates since then.

Re: varnish woes..

#74

Hi Rick,
Yes, go ahead and spot sand and fill the checks. One hint for fillers; try to make sure you don't use a lighter color to fill with. It's much less distracting to use filler slightly darker than the surrounding area.

Bob

Re: varnish woes..

#73

Bob these are the back part (inside) of the rail. So won't be seen. Could I spot grind those areas, then fill/varnish?

Thx.

Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?

From: Bob Taylor <woodwork@...>

Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 10:54:57 -0500

To: s227classassociation@...<s227classassociation@...>

Subject: [s227classassociation] varnish woes..

Woops. Those deep checks need to be filled before the varnish goes on.
Finish can't really act as a filler there. You might try to spot the
dips with varnish for a few days but keep in mind as the stuff builds
up it gets slow to dry. We've got time before launch though! If I was
in a hurry I would belt sand it all off and go again. I would fill
with one of those acetone type putties like Famowood.

varnish woes..

#72

Woops. Those deep checks need to be filled before the varnish goes on.  Finish can't really act as a filler there. You might try to spot the  dips with varnish for a few days but keep in mind as the stuff builds  up it gets slow to dry. We've got time before launch though! If I was  in a hurry I would belt sand it all off and go again. I would fill  with one of those acetone type putties like Famowood.

varnish woes..

#71

OK - so i am on coat #3 of varnish:

first coat - 50% thinned.
second coat - 25% thinned
3rd coat I just did (20 min ago) - and posted pix in photo section.  I am getting these valleys of no coverage in areas where there is deep grain (back side of handrails).

i sanded between coats - any thoughts where I am messing up?

Thx.

Rick

Re: Handrail refinish technique

#70

That must be a nice cruising area - do you go up to Chicago or St Joe, MI or further?

Went to school at IU Bloomington, a friend was from South Bend so went up there a few times.

Rick

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--- In s227classassociation@..., "Dave S." <uswa174@...> wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: rperret@...
[snip]
Dave - where do you live given that the Marina opens 4/1?   Here in connecticut nobody is really in the drink until 5/1 at the earliest.Southern Lake Michigan...I sail out of Washington Park Marina in Michigan City, Indiana.  Although April 1 is the opening date for the marina, the earliest I have launched is April 8, back before I owned my 27.  We have lots of powerboats who launch right away on April 1, though, since the Coho and Chinook salmon get active about that time, and many of those folks are hardcore fishermen.  For those who don't know, Lake Michigan is a tremendous salmon fishery...salmon were first introduced into Lake Michigan in the late 1950s and early '60s to control the alewife population, which came into the Great Lakes when the St Lawrence Seaway was opened (sea lampreys came in also, which killed off the walleyes).

We'll see how early I launch this year....they don't turn on the water to the docks until about April 15, though, due to the prospect of a late freeze.

Cheers!

Dave S.
s/v Clio
1987 S2 27, hull #80



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Re: Handrail refinish technique

#69

>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: rperret@...
>>>[snip]
>>>Dave - where do you live given that the Marina opens 4/1? Here in connecticut nobody is really in the drink until 5/1 at the earliest.

Southern Lake Michigan...I sail out of Washington Park Marina in Michigan City, Indiana. Although April 1 is the opening date for the marina, the earliest I have launched is April 8, back before I owned my 27. We have lots of powerboats who launch right away on April 1, though, since the Coho and Chinook salmon get active about that time, and many of those folks are hardcore fishermen. For those who don't know, Lake Michigan is a tremendous salmon fishery...salmon were first introduced into Lake Michigan in the late 1950s and early '60s to control the alewife population, which came into the Great Lakes when the St Lawrence Seaway was opened (sea lampreys came in also, which killed off the walleyes).

We'll see how early I launch this year....they don't turn on the water to the docks until about April 15, though, due to the prospect of a late freeze.

Cheers!

Dave S.
s/v Clio
1987 S2 27, hull #80

??

?

Re: Handrail refinish technique

#68

I like the Epifanes finish system because it allows me to thin the first coat to 50% to get a very deep penetration. If the subsequent coats go on promptly and are thinned progressively less, I feel the finished product will be pretty tenacious. It is great to work with on a brush too. Flows nice. I have only just begun using it in the past 6 months though, so I'll be watching for it's longevity. The project was a church restoration outside of Philadelphia. One pair of doors faces due south and will be punishing. I applied 6 coats altogether.
This progressive system is more akin to the way traditional varnishes are applied, and I hope it avoids the 'peeling plastic' look we see on some failing finishes out there.
The door frames were finished onsite by a subcontractor with McCloskey's (which doesn't allow thinning), so I'll have a side by side test going for the next few years.

Last spring I put the Sikkens clear coat product on my companionway boards. It looks nice going in to the second season, but to get their longest life they spec the tinted undercoat. I've used that system on white oak and douglas fir windows & mahogany doors and I don't care for the look.

What's best? There's a lot of variables. I'll use Epifanes on my handrails this spring and keep watching.

Bob

Re: Handrail refinish technique

#67

My friend used bristol on his coronado 25 weatherboards - they look beautiful - it was a rich red color and mirror gloss. But the stuff costs 2X epifanes...or in my case West Marine 5 star high gloss.

I feel the teak woodstock makes a difference too. Perhaps Bob has a perspective being in the woodworking business (I think). My rails are made of less than perfect stock - of course that may be due to PO neglect....

Dave - where do you live given that the Marina opens 4/1? Here in connecticut nobody is really in the drink until 5/1 at the earliest.

Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry?

From: "Dave S." <uswa174@...>

Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 07:43:12 -0500

To: <s227classassociation@...>

Subject: Re: [s227classassociation] Handrail refinish technique

Has anyone tried Bristol Finish? It is a two-part product, and I have heard that it is extremely durable. The PO of my boat used Epifanes on my handrails back in 2006, and they are now peeling/flaking badly. However, I don't know how he prepped the teak prior to coating the rails. I suspect that prep is the key to durability, regardless of the finishing material.

My marina opens April 1. :)

Dave S.
s/v Clio
1987 S2 27, hull #80

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: "Bob Taylor" [woodwork@taylorsmill.com]
Date: 02/02/2010 09:59 PM
To: s227classassociation@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [s227classassociation] Handrail refinish technique

Hi Rick & Mark,
Agreed, Epifanes is very good material. This fall I used several gallons
on an architectural restoration. Their recommendation to thin the first
coats and work up to full strength is exactly what I wanted in a finish.
I tried several others as well.
I'll be doing my handrails with it as soon as it's warm enough.

Bob

??

?

Re: Handrail refinish technique

#66

Has anyone tried Bristol Finish? It is a two-part product, and I have heard that it is extremely durable. The PO of my boat used Epifanes on my handrails back in 2006, and they are now peeling/flaking badly. However, I don't know how he prepped the teak prior to coating the rails. I suspect that prep is the key to durability, regardless of the finishing material.

My marina opens April 1. :)

Dave S.
s/v Clio
1987 S2 27, hull #80

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: "Bob Taylor" [woodwork@...]
Date: 02/02/2010 09:59 PM
To: s227classassociation@...
Subject: Re: [s227classassociation] Handrail refinish technique

Hi Rick & Mark,
Agreed, Epifanes is very good material. This fall I used several gallons
on an architectural restoration. Their recommendation to thin the first
coats and work up to full strength is exactly what I wanted in a finish.
I tried several others as well.
I'll be doing my handrails with it as soon as it's warm enough.

Bob

??

?

Re: Handrail refinish technique

#65

Hi Rick & Mark,
Agreed, Epifanes is very good material. This fall I used several gallons on an architectural restoration. Their recommendation to thin the first coats and work up to full strength is exactly what I wanted in a finish. I tried several others as well.
I'll be doing my handrails with it as soon as it's warm enough.

Bob

Re: Handrail refinish technique

#64

开云体育

Rick, I just finished my hand rails for the 6th time.? Once they are clean and sanded I hand rub three or four coats of tongue oil into the wood letting each coat dry for 24 hours or so.? Next I sand again and put the first coat of varnish on the entire rail.? Long 1/4 inch bolts in the first and third mounting holes make good handles.? I start at one end and do the top and bottom at the same time.? Let dry for at least a day, sand with 120 grit and do it again.? This time I have 4 coats of tongue oil and 6 coats of varnish sanding between each coat.? It will last about 3 years with one touch up the second year.? I have tired it all and the Epifanes gloss seems to be the best I have used.? It flows very well and looks fantastic, I do try to do it in a cold garage which makes it thicker and flow flatter.? I filled the stand off tubes with teak plugs?cut with a hole saw and epoxied in the tube.? I could do all of them at once that way and they should last for ever now the broom handles have rotted?away.? I have been using 5200 to bed them but think I will just use silicone this time, the 5200 is a PIA to get off the deck each time I varnish.

?

Mark

Nashville?

?

Show quoted text

----- Original Message -----

From: s227classassociation

To: s227classassociation@...

Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 10:01 PM

Subject: [s227classassociation] Handrail refinish technique

?

So the rails are finally sanded down and ready to refinish. I purchased a quart of west marine 5 star varnish which is the epicanes high gloss but labeled WM.

First I plan to varnish the inside portion (back) of the rail first. This is to get a feel for using the epifanes product and any mistakes won't be seen...also when I have to do the outer side I won't risk ruining the finish f I then needed to do the back.

I am also in the process of filling the standoff tubes with thickened epoxy. I did one tube and it went well. Once the rails are done, I reach a decision point...do I take the stand off tubes and bed them onto the rails first? If I do it this way the only beddeing I need to do in the spring are the ends of the standoff tubes that lie against the cabin top. Alternatively perhaps I could bed the tubes to the cabin top first? Then fit the rail after the fact??

Interested in your opinions?

Thx

Rick