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R90s Serial Numbers/No BMW Information

Mac Kirkpatrick #267 From: Troy Nicks <htroyn@... On the subject of serial numbers, I was kinda wondering if I have one of the last R90S's made. The number is 4991123. According to the tables I've seen, that's 137 numbers from the end of the series, at least for US models. But, I thought the European number series might have been actually manufactured later. Anyone have a "newer" bike? Troy -------------------------------- From Mac Kirkpatrick to Troy: Troy: In looking at one of the boooks I have ("BMW Twins Restoration" by Mick Walker) there were two different series of serial numbers, one for USA and the other for ""rest of world" (ROW). US serial numbers (frame and engine both) were from 4950001 to 4960000 and from 4980001 to 5000000. ROW numbers were 4070001 to 4100000. No production dates are listed in this book. Wish I could help you out more..... Can anyone else help here? ----------------------------------- On another related subject which we have talked about a little Ron Cantor pursued getting a certificate for his R90s and emailed Fred Jakobs at BMW Historical Archives about obtaining a certificate for his bike. (Go to to see a sample certificate. A certificate is a piece of paper from BMW testifying as to the authenticity of a particular serial number, its' production date, color, delivering dealer, and options built on the bike.) What follows are several emails you can read through to see what Ron found out. It is VERY disappointing to find out what Ron was told, as you will see when reading this series of emails. Evidently BMW's recording keeping was deplorable!!!! Thanks for the following information from Ron Cantor!!! Read it and weep!!!! ------------------------------------------------ From Ron Cantor to Mac Kirkpatrick: Speaking of the certificate program, here is the second response I have received from "Fred" Ron -----Original Message----- From: s073817 [mailto:Historisches.Archiv@...] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 7:13 AM To: roncantor@... Subject: Re: 4980715 Dear Mr. Cantor, I'm sorry, I found a book with records for motorcycles between 4980001 and 4981738 (july 1974 - august 1975) but only 23 (!!!) numbers are filled with informations. So I can`t give you the informations you want. At my opinion your motorcycle was produced in january or february 1975 but I'm not sure. Im sorry but that I can nothing more to do for you. Best regards Fred roncantor@... schrieb: Hello again! I checked the frame number and did a rubbing. The number 4980715 is correct. However, there is , what appears to be a circular character after the "5" hbut it does not match the existing "0" between the "8" and the "7". I purchased this new, as an order from the factory, on May 5, 1975. The dealer was a friend and I was a minor investor in his dealership, which was PHiladelphia Cycles, 4000 North Broad Street, Philadelphia PA USA. The owner unfortunately died from an accident (not motorcycle related) a few years after I purchased the R90S. If there is any way to further research this I am grateful. Thank you. Ron Cantor PS Where is the engine number located? I will check to see if that matches -----Original Message----- From: s073817 [mailto:Historisches.Archiv@...] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 4:27 AM To: mrrcee@... Subject: Re: 4980715 Dear Mr. Cantor, please check your number again, because I can't find the 4980715 in our records or in a list of production numbers. We would also like to inform you that the records of the R 90 S are not complete. So there is no guarantee that we have your motorcycle in our records. Best regards Fred Jakobs - BMW Group, Historical archives mrrcee@... schrieb: I agree with above-mentioned conditions and ask you to send me the Certificate Type: R90S TT SMOKE Chassis No./VIN: 4980715 Engine No.: Postal adress: (NOTE: Mac deleted Ron's address in the interest of privacy. Ron can provide his address to you if he wishes.) RON CANTOR BALA CYNWYD PA USA Best regards Fred Jakobs - BMW Group Historical archives ------------------------------------------------------- Best, Mac Kirkpatrick Glenmoore, PA USA
Troy Nicks #269 Not to belabor this issue, Mac, but Knittel & Slabon's BMW MC Buyer's Guide (2nd Ed.) lists the end of the run at #4991260, not 5000000. Specifically, the US series were: 9/73-8/74 4950001-4960000 9/74-8/75 4980001-4990000 9/75-8/76 4990001-4991260 Obviously, 5000000 might be the end of the "reserved" number range, while 4991260 could be the actual last number used. Only der gnomes know, I reckon. Troy toggle quoted message Show quoted text ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mac Kirkpatrick" <drbeemer@...> To: <R90SWORLDNET@...> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 9:04 AM Subject: [R90SWORLDNET] R90s Serial Numbers/No BMW Information From: Troy Nicks <htroyn@... On the subject of serial numbers, I was kinda wondering if I have one of the last R90S's made. The number is 4991123. According to the tables I've seen, that's 137 numbers from the end of the series, at least for US models. But, I thought the European number series might have been actually manufactured later. Anyone have a "newer" bike? Troy -------------------------------- From Mac Kirkpatrick to Troy: Troy: In looking at one of the boooks I have ("BMW Twins Restoration" by Mick Walker) there were two different series of serial numbers, one for USA and the other for ""rest of world" (ROW). US serial numbers (frame and engine both) were from 4950001 to 4960000 and from 4980001 to 5000000. ROW numbers were 4070001 to 4100000. No production dates are listed in this book. Wish I could help you out more..... Can anyone else help here? ----------------------------------- On another related subject which we have talked about a little Ron Cantor pursued getting a certificate for his R90s and emailed Fred Jakobs at BMW Historical Archives about obtaining a certificate for his bike. (Go to to see a sample certificate. A certificate is a piece of paper from BMW testifying as to the authenticity of a particular serial number, its' production date, color, delivering dealer, and options built on the bike.) What follows are several emails you can read through to see what Ron found out. It is VERY disappointing to find out what Ron was told, as you will see when reading this series of emails. Evidently BMW's recording keeping was deplorable!!!! Thanks for the following information from Ron Cantor!!! Read it and weep!!!! ------------------------------------------------ From Ron Cantor to Mac Kirkpatrick: Speaking of the certificate program, here is the second response I have received from "Fred" Ron -----Original Message----- From: s073817 [mailto:Historisches.Archiv@...] Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 7:13 AM To: roncantor@... Subject: Re: 4980715 Dear Mr. Cantor, I'm sorry, I found a book with records for motorcycles between 4980001 and 4981738 (july 1974 - august 1975) but only 23 (!!!) numbers are filled with informations. So I can`t give you the informations you want. At my opinion your motorcycle was produced in january or february 1975 but I'm not sure. Im sorry but that I can nothing more to do for you. Best regards Fred roncantor@... schrieb: Hello again! I checked the frame number and did a rubbing. The number 4980715 is correct. However, there is , what appears to be a circular character after the "5" hbut it does not match the existing "0" between the "8" and the "7". I purchased this new, as an order from the factory, on May 5, 1975. The dealer was a friend and I was a minor investor in his dealership, which was PHiladelphia Cycles, 4000 North Broad Street, Philadelphia PA USA. The owner unfortunately died from an accident (not motorcycle related) a few years after I purchased the R90S. If there is any way to further research this I am grateful. Thank you. Ron Cantor PS Where is the engine number located? I will check to see if that matches -----Original Message----- From: s073817 [mailto:Historisches.Archiv@...] Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 4:27 AM To: mrrcee@... Subject: Re: 4980715 Dear Mr. Cantor, please check your number again, because I can't find the 4980715 in our records or in a list of production numbers. We would also like to inform you that the records of the R 90 S are not complete. So there is no guarantee that we have your motorcycle in our records. Best regards Fred Jakobs - BMW Group, Historical archives mrrcee@... schrieb: I agree with above-mentioned conditions and ask you to send me the Certificate Type: R90S TT SMOKE Chassis No./VIN: 4980715 Engine No.: Postal adress: (NOTE: Mac deleted Ron's address in the interest of privacy. Ron can provide his address to you if he wishes.) RON CANTOR BALA CYNWYD PA USA Best regards Fred Jakobs - BMW Group Historical archives ------------------------------------------------------- Best, Mac Kirkpatrick Glenmoore, PA USA To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: R90SWORLDNET-unsubscribe@...
Mac Kirkpatrick #274 From: Troy Nicks <htroyn@... Not to belabor this issue, Mac, but Knittel & Slabon's BMW MC Buyer's Guide (2nd Ed.) lists the end of the run at #4991260, not 5000000. ---------------------------- Mac Kirkpatrick said: Troy I see what you are saying, I am looking at the same book you mention above. Good point. Also the first edition of the book above gave NO R90s serial numbers at all! So who do you believe? One book says one serial number range and another book gives still different information..... AND THEN Mr. Fred Jakobs from BMW itself says they cannot tell Ron Cantor ANY information about his R90s!!!!: ----------------------------------------------- Dear Mr. Cantor, I'm sorry, I found a book with records for motorcycles between 4980001 and 4981738 (july 1974 - august 1975) but only 23 (!!!) numbers are filled with informations. So I can`t give you the informations you want. At my opinion your motorcycle was produced in january or february 1975 but I'm not sure. Im sorry but that I can nothing more to do for you. Best regards Fred ----------------------------------------------- Who do we believe and where can we get ANY information on serial numbers for our R90ss that is believable???? BTW this is not ALL bad. We (the R90s list) will continue to look further for good information. AND this is one reason I started this list, I believe there is SO much information out "there" that is bogus and not reliable. We can nail down the good information and eliminate rumors, which is all positive, and work on the rest of the information that is as yet unverified. Mac Kirkpatrick Glenmoore, PA USA

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