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Locked R90s, Daytona Orange versus TT Silver Smoke
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Mac Kirkpatrick
Hi there R90s fans. The R90SWORLDNET@... is doing well. We now have
20 members and climbing. The following question came in via Ken Claus from Duwayne Nash, Dnash@... as follows: From Duwayne Nash:a question came up today, which is can you tell by the engine or frame numbers, which bike is daytona orange or silver smoke? when someone repaints an R90s, could you look up any numbers to tell which color it should be? thanks duke 1976 R90s silver smoke Duke: There is no way for the general public or dealers to tell from the engine number or the serial number (VIN) (these numbers will be the same if the engine and frame have not been changed) if an R90s was originally painted Daytona Orange or TT Silver Smoke when it left the factory. And many are repainted, many changing to Daytona Orange. The same issue comes up with other bikes such as 1978 R100RS Motorsports, as is this REALLY an original Motorsport or has it been repainted Motorsport colors? Only 200 were produced for the US market, more were made for the ROW (Rest of World). There is no serial number range for these particular bikes. (See ) However, see below, I think the BMW factory can tell you how a certain bike was made (ie, color, options, dealer to whom delivered, etc.) I know of at least one Motorsport that had its' bodywork traded to a guy for his '81 RS. Example: I spoke to a guy at the Midland, MI MOA National this year about his '78 R100RS which he said was a "Motorsport". It was a 1978 bike but it was painted as an '84 R100RS Last Edition with the orange around the headlight like a Motorsport. It was a beautiful bike, but I had to tell him it was very incorrect and was not portrayed correctly as a Motorsport. The Last Editions were painted Pearl White not the white of the Motorsport and the stripes were very different between the two bikes. Both the Motorsport and the Last Editions are beautiful bikes but they are very very different. You can tell from the serial number what MODEL year the bike was produced for and if the bike was made for the US market or the Rest of World (ROW) market. I believe '74 model R90s US bikes start with 495XXXX, '75 model year bikes are 498XXXX, and '76 model years start with 499XXXX (This information agrees with the four R90s serial numbers I own.) ROW bikes have a serial number from 407XXXX to 410XXXX. (Ref. "BMW Twins Restoration" by Mick Walker, Osprey Publishing, London). Further when any vehicle is produced the factory sends with the vehicle a CO (Certificate of Origin) also called an MSO (Manufacturers' Statement of Origin). This is a "birth certificate" for the vehicle and the division of motor vehicles in different states use it, along with the buyer's name and address and purchase date, to then make a title. The COs from the period of the R90s show the serial number, manufacturer or importer name, HP rating, weight, model, model year of the bike, number of cylinders, and the name of the dealer to whom the bike was sold. I am writing this with a copy of an original CO for a '74 R90s in my hand. There is no provision for mentioning color on the CO. However the factory can tell from the serial number exactly how they built the bike at the factory (including the color). I believe this information is available from Mobile Tradition within BMW. They can look up a particular serial number and tell, I BELIEVE the date it was produced, the color, the options on the bike and the dealer the bike was sent to for retail delivery. In other words they can tell you everything about the bike. BUT you and I don't know that information nor can we obtain it, as far as I know. BTW I am trying to contact Mobile Tradition to get information on my bikes' serial numbers and will let you know what information is available and the procedure to use to find this information. Best, Mac Kirkpatrick Glenmoore, PA USA Best, Mac Kirkpatrick Glenmoore, PA USA |
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Rick Griffith
I guess the one good thing is that if someone tries to sell you an original
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'74 R90s painted in Daytona Orange, you'll know they're trying to pull the wool as they were only painted in Silver Smoke that year. Rick Griffith -----Original Message----- |
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Darryl Richman
Mac Kirkpatrick [mailto:drbeemer@...] writes:
<snip> | I believe '74 model R90s US bikes start with 495XXXX, '75 model year bikes | are 498XXXX, and '76 model years start with 499XXXX (This | information agrees | with the four R90s serial numbers I own.) Is that really so? I'm the list owner for the eGroups /2 list, and in that respect, you can't tell what year a bike was made by its serial number. You can get a *feel* for whether it was early or late in the production range. I'll have to go have a look at the serial number on my '75 R90S. | However the factory can tell from the serial number exactly how they built | the bike at the factory (including the color). | | I believe this information is available from Mobile Tradition within BMW. | They can look up a particular serial number and tell, I BELIEVE | the date it | was produced, the color, the options on the bike and the dealer | the bike was | sent to for retail delivery. In other words they can tell you everything | about the bike. | | BUT you and I don't know that information nor can we obtain it, | as far as I | know. Yes, the factory knows what they did with each bike. And they will tell you. I've gotten origin info on my three vintage bikes (R60/2, R51/3, R12; hadn't really thought of asking them about my R90S). Write to Fred Jakobs at Historisches.Archiv@.... They are trying to get a certificate program going, where they will sell you a banknote egraved style certificate with personilzed origin info on it. I believe they are asking 70- DM (which is about $30 right now). You can see a sample over at the /2 web page: --Darryl Richman |
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Mac Kirkpatrick
Duwayne said: you are the first person i have heard call the silver smoke
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"TT". where does that come from? Mac responded: That is the official color name from BMW. I cannot tell you exactly where you will find that name but I imagine if you look in a dealer brochure (I am at work, my brochures are at home) you will see the name TT Silver Smoke. Also Duwayne you should have received an invitation to join this discussion group. It is just for discussion of the R90s model and the invite will come from www.egroups.com using the email address R90SWORLDNET@... Or if it is easier just let me know you want me to add you to our list and I will add you as a member. Then save the email address above and whenever you have a question just send it to that address and you will be addressing all the members of the R90s list. And you will benefit from their collective knowledge. And please contribute your knowledge to the list also. Questions like you asked are very good and are appreciated. Thanks. Best, Mac Kirkpatrick Glenmoore, PA USA ----- Original Message -----
From: Duwayne Nash <Dnash@...> To: <drbeemer@...> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2000 12:30 PM Subject: Re: R90s, Daytona Orange versus TT Silver Smoke mac, thanks for the info. just finished reading it. i guess that answers my question. i understand that you have 4 R90s', lucky you. i have a silver smoke and passed up a daytona orange a number of years ago because my one R90s was fine. now i wish i would have bought it. but anyway, thank you for your time in answering my questions. duwayne Hi there R90s fans. The R90SWORLDNET@... is doing well. We now have"Mac Kirkpatrick" <drbeemer@...> 10/26/00 08:41AM >>> 20 members and climbing. The following question came in via Ken Claus from Duwayne Nash, Dnash@... as follows: From Duwayne Nash:a question came up today, which is can you tell by the engine or frame numbers, which bike is daytona orange or silver smoke? when someone repaints an R90s, could you look up any numbers to tell which color it should be? thanks duke 1976 R90s silver smoke Duke: There is no way for the general public or dealers to tell from the engine number or the serial number (VIN) (these numbers will be the same if the engine and frame have not been changed) if an R90s was originally painted Daytona Orange or TT Silver Smoke when it left the factory. And many are repainted, many changing to Daytona Orange. The same issue comes up with other bikes such as 1978 R100RS Motorsports, as is this REALLY an original Motorsport or has it been repainted Motorsport colors? Only 200 were produced for the US market, more were made for the ROW (Rest of World). There is no serial number range for these particular bikes. (See ) However, see below, I think the BMW factory can tell you how a certain bike was made (ie, color, options, dealer to whom delivered, etc.) I know of at least one Motorsport that had its' bodywork traded to a guy for his '81 RS. Example: I spoke to a guy at the Midland, MI MOA National this year about his '78 R100RS which he said was a "Motorsport". It was a 1978 bike but it was painted as an '84 R100RS Last Edition with the orange around the headlight like a Motorsport. It was a beautiful bike, but I had to tell him it was very incorrect and was not portrayed correctly as a Motorsport. The Last Editions were painted Pearl White not the white of the Motorsport and the stripes were very different between the two bikes. Both the Motorsport and the Last Editions are beautiful bikes but they are very very different. You can tell from the serial number what MODEL year the bike was produced for and if the bike was made for the US market or the Rest of World (ROW) market. I believe '74 model R90s US bikes start with 495XXXX, '75 model year bikes are 498XXXX, and '76 model years start with 499XXXX (This information agrees with the four R90s serial numbers I own.) ROW bikes have a serial number from 407XXXX to 410XXXX. (Ref. "BMW Twins Restoration" by Mick Walker, Osprey Publishing, London). Further when any vehicle is produced the factory sends with the vehicle a CO (Certificate of Origin) also called an MSO (Manufacturers' Statement of Origin). This is a "birth certificate" for the vehicle and the division of motor vehicles in different states use it, along with the buyer's name and address and purchase date, to then make a title. The COs from the period of the R90s show the serial number, manufacturer or importer name, HP rating, weight, model, model year of the bike, number of cylinders, and the name of the dealer to whom the bike was sold. I am writing this with a copy of an original CO for a '74 R90s in my hand. There is no provision for mentioning color on the CO. However the factory can tell from the serial number exactly how they built the bike at the factory (including the color). I believe this information is available from Mobile Tradition within BMW. They can look up a particular serial number and tell, I BELIEVE the date it was produced, the color, the options on the bike and the dealer the bike was sent to for retail delivery. In other words they can tell you everything about the bike. BUT you and I don't know that information nor can we obtain it, as far as I know. BTW I am trying to contact Mobile Tradition to get information on my bikes' serial numbers and will let you know what information is available and the procedure to use to find this information. Best, Mac Kirkpatrick Glenmoore, PA USA Best, Mac Kirkpatrick Glenmoore, PA USA |
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