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I've hit a problem with OccultWatcher tonight that I've never seen before:
The maximum active number of stations for your account has been reached. You cannot announce more stations.
First of all, I only have a single station for each event, as I am operating from a fixed observatory.
Second, there are two events for tomorrow evening that I cannot sign up for because of this.
Please advise.
Thanks,
David Oesper
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Hi David,
You have 300 announced stations for the 2 months from 1 Apr to 1 Jun. This is an average of 5 per night and looks like you have reported observations for almost all the ones that have passed.
This is pretty impressive! Do you have some sort of an automated unattended system or do you 'attend' those observations?
OW has a limit of allowing 300 submitted stations for a 2 month period as a precaution of denial of services attacks by malicious users. I thought that 5 events per night will be more than enough for most users.
I can increase your personal limit of stations but would be really curious to find out how do you manage to observe so many events?
Hristo.
On Sunday, May 30, 2021, 11:40:01 AM GMT+10, David Oesper via groups.io <oesper@...> wrote:
I've hit a problem with OccultWatcher tonight that I've never seen before:
The maximum active number of stations for your account has been reached. You cannot announce more stations.
First of all, I only have a single station for each event, as I am operating from a fixed observatory.
Second, there are two events for tomorrow evening that I cannot sign up for because of this.
Please advise.
Thanks,
David Oesper
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Hi Hristo,
Since David Herald allowed Occult to filter predictions by probability percent (a request from myself and others), I am adding all events with a probability > 1% where my observatory is in the predicted shadow in addition to all events where my MPCOrb or JPL Horizons probability is 10% or greater. Add to that a few long duration and bright star events with probability > 1%, and the number of potential events per night can sometimes exceed more than 5 per night. I find it helpful when planning each night's observing session to have several events to choose from, as sometimes there are two or more events during the same hour, for example, which makes an efficient use of my observing time. Of course, I always try to observe the events with more than one observer signed up, but many of the ones I publish where I am the only observer, I end up skipping and report as a "no observation". It hasn't helped my observation percentage that most of the past two months have been cloudy here, but at least I am always prepared when it is clear.
Thanks much,
Dave
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Hi Dave,
The idea of announcing a station is to show others a commitment to observe and if you cannot observe all the events you have signed up for, then I would suggest that you apply additional filtering and you sign up for less events so you don't exceed the limit of 300 stations for 60 days.
OW has an option to 'Add event for follow up' which will still add the event to your 'My events' but no station will be announced and others will not know that you may review this event later and decide to observe. You can always sign up for the event a day or so before the actual event if you seem determined to observe it.
I also see that you always announce a High commitment to observe but you said that you end up skipping, so the value of High commitment that you are using does not seem to indicate your actual commitment.
Happy to hear the views of other observers on the subject but I am thinking that you should not be submitting stations for so many events if you often don't end up observing them and therefore will likely not need to be able to submit more than 300 stations per 60 days.
Hristo.
On Sunday, May 30, 2021, 1:50:18 PM GMT+10, David Oesper via groups.io <oesper@...> wrote:
Hi Hristo,
Since David Herald allowed Occult to filter predictions by probability percent (a request from myself and others), I am adding all events with a probability > 1% where my observatory is in the predicted shadow in addition to all events where my MPCOrb or JPL Horizons probability is 10% or greater. Add to that a few long duration and bright star events with probability > 1%, and the number of potential events per night can sometimes exceed more than 5 per night. I find it helpful when planning each night's observing session to have several events to choose from, as sometimes there are two or more events during the same hour, for example, which makes an efficient use of my observing time. Of course, I always try to observe the events with more than one observer signed up, but many of the ones I publish where I am the only observer, I end up skipping and report as a "no observation". It hasn't helped my observation percentage that most of the past two months have been cloudy here, but at least I am always prepared when it is clear.
Thanks much,
Dave
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Thanks, Hristo, I will see what I can do. I am also trying to minimize the amount of time I spend each day calculating predictions, so would rather err on the side of caution and not miss any potentially good events.
I do have a high commitment to observe any event that someone else signs up for, but if I don't publish them, how will others know what I am prepared to observe?
Dave
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Hi David,
One of the issues that?OW Cloud () is trying to address is to make it easier for people find and share interesting events to observe with others.
While it is still far from getting there, it currently computes all events in the next two months involving all numbered asteroids and stars down to mag 16 and it makes those events discoverable by people who want to review them and further make them special by additionally tagging them with a certain tag.
Currently all OW feeds are implemented using this mechanisms i.e. the feed maintainers tag the events from their feed with the tag of the feed.
From what I understand you were computing personal predictions and then announcing stations for them, so you can make those events visible to other people. This is pretty much the same as maintaining a feed. One day all users will be able to search all OWC transient events directly and find what they want to observe, but currently events will need to be tagged in order for them to become visible in OW.
If you are interested Dave, you could set up your own tag and tag events in OWC. This would make those events visible to OW users and you will not have to announce a station to observe them as everyone interested will be able to see them.
A new tag could really be anything, for example 'good' events visible from a particular area, where you define what good means. Then you need to advertise your tag and see if observers will be interested to subscribe for your tag and observe your tagged events. The tag could be also something a bit more special - for example not just any event with a non-zero probability but actually events involving asteroids that present a particular scientific interest. You could use the new Community Tag mechanism to advertise such events.
In short trying to make your personal feed visible in OW by announcing stations for your events is not a great way to set up a feed. Also if not many of those events end up being observed by others could also mean that your selection criteria (non zero probability) may be doesn't make a very interesting feed / tag. If you have time to find events and point observers to them, you should try to find something else that makes the events interesting and I can then help you with OWC tagging to make those events visible in OW without you having to announce a station for them just to get them appear in OW.
If we don't try to find a special reason to observe an event and everyone starts producing personal feed with all non-zero probability events, then either there will be 20 million events in OW for everyone to additionally filter on, or everyone will be observing their own events for a single chord. Both options are not very exciting or useful. So we really need to start finding events that stand out from the rest if we want multiple chords and obtaining results that help us advance occultation science.
I hope this makes sense.
Hristo.
On Sunday, May 30, 2021, 2:47:32 PM GMT+10, David Oesper via groups.io <oesper@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
Thanks, Hristo, I will see what I can do. I am also trying to minimize the amount of time I spend each day calculating predictions, so would rather err on the side of caution and not miss any potentially good events.
I do have a high commitment to observe any event that someone else signs up for, but if I don't publish them, how will others know what I am prepared to observe?
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Hi Hristo,
Thanks for taking the time to explain the advantages of OW Cloud, and there's no question this is a huge step forward for all of us. Thanks for all your work on OW and OW Cloud and I will look into setting up a tag in the near future.
One question about the current setup. Am I permanently blocked from publishing additional events after hitting the "maximum active number of stations" error, or after several days of not publishing anything, will I automatically be allowed to publish again? I do appreciate the 'Add event for follow up' option and I am currently using that now to help me schedule my observing strategy for each clear night.
Thanks again,
Dave
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I am in awe of David's commitment!? Well done.??
However I have one comment/question.? In a previous reply, Hristo wrote,?
"I also see that you always announce a High commitment to observe but you said that you end up skipping, so the value of High commitment that you are using does not seem to indicate your actual commitment."
Actually, I have always interpreted the new "Count on Me" indicator to indicate the observer's (self-determined) likelihood of getting a successful observation, not simply an announcement to "Count on me to observe."??
I believe the best use of the "Count on me" indicator is for beginners who wish to get started in observing?to register their site, along with the indication of their own perception of their likelihood of success.? ?I always encourage beginners to head for a spot close to the center line to maximize their chances of getting a positive.? However, by specifying "Low or inexperienced" for the indicator they telegraph to the rest of the community that no one should feel they have to avoid the beginning observer's chord for fear of duplication.??
When I first got started I knew my chances of success were low, as I had a lot to learn about the equipment, finding the field, timing, etc.? ?I remember that I didn't? even want to announce my near-center-line sites on OW for fear someone would actually think I'd get good data and avoid my chord.? (Ha!? That took many, many attempts...)? Then my (likely) subsequent failure would leave the center line uncovered.??
With the introduction of the "Count on me" indicator, it is now possible for beginners (or people experimenting with new equipment or techniques) to announce their site in a way that does not discourage other, more experienced observers from covering the same chord.? ?At least to me, this seems like a good use of the feature.
Ted B.
On Sat, May 29, 2021 at 9:17 PM hristo_dpavlov via <hristo_dpavlov= [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Dave,
The idea of announcing a station is to show others a commitment to observe and if you cannot observe all the events you have signed up for, then I would suggest that you apply additional filtering and you sign up for less events so you don't exceed the limit of 300 stations for 60 days.
OW has an option to 'Add event for follow up' which will still add the event to your 'My events' but no station will be announced and others will not know that you may review this event later and decide to observe. You can always sign up for the event a day or so before the actual event if you seem determined to observe it.
I also see that you always announce a High commitment to observe but you said that you end up skipping, so the value of High commitment that you are using does not seem to indicate your actual commitment.
Happy to hear the views of other observers on the subject but I am thinking that you should not be submitting stations for so many events if you often don't end up observing them and therefore will likely not need to be able to submit more than 300 stations per 60 days.
Hristo.
On Sunday, May 30, 2021, 1:50:18 PM GMT+10, David Oesper via <oesper= [email protected]> wrote:
Hi Hristo,
Since David Herald allowed Occult to filter predictions by probability percent (a request from myself and others), I am adding all events with a probability > 1% where my observatory is in the predicted shadow in addition to all events where my MPCOrb or JPL Horizons probability is 10% or greater. Add to that a few long duration and bright star events with probability > 1%, and the number of potential events per night can sometimes exceed more than 5 per night. I find it helpful when planning each night's observing session to have several events to choose from, as sometimes there are two or more events during the same hour, for example, which makes an efficient use of my observing time. Of course, I always try to observe the events with more than one observer signed up, but many of the ones I publish where I am the only observer, I end up skipping and report as a "no observation". It hasn't helped my observation percentage that most of the past two months have been cloudy here, but at least I am always prepared when it is clear.
Thanks much,
Dave
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Hi David,
The 300 limit is in a running 60 day window so stations will automatically clear up and become available again as time goes on.
Hristo
On Monday, May 31, 2021, 05:53:07 AM GMT+10, David Oesper via groups.io <oesper@...> wrote:
Hi Hristo, Thanks for taking the time to explain the advantages of OW Cloud, and there's no question this is a huge step forward for all of us. Thanks for all your work on OW and OW Cloud and I will look into setting up a tag in the near future. One question about the current setup. Am I permanently blocked from publishing additional events after hitting the "maximum active number of stations" error, or after several days of not publishing anything, will I automatically be allowed to publish again? I do appreciate the 'Add event for follow up' option and I am currently using that now to help me schedule my observing strategy for each clear night. Thanks again, Dave
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David Oesper
