Initial Comments on the Review Process
I did the training on the Occultation Review process, "graduated", and have now reviewed 3 batches of 3 (total of 9, with only a single one with multi-chords) in the past week and a half.? What I'm seeing so far is it takes me nearly an hour to do each one (the first several took multi-hours, but I'm software challenged).? I think eventually I'll be able to get that down to between 30 and 45 minutes at best.? So the current rate of positive events (about 3.5 per day for North America) requires several hours per day of volunteer time, not including Norm's time riding herd on it all.? I can understand why they got behind, with only a handful of volunteers and the very quick ramp up in our rate of positives.
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It is a very manual process--I have a spreadsheet with all the steps on it that I use as a checklist.? It has well over 100 steps, and each with each review I edit it with more detail or new steps depending on what I learn.??
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Steve
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Steve:
Well, thanks for being a Beta-tester for the newest version!! I was contemplating trying it to see if it might solve the issue I had. 'Guess maybe it might. But be advised that if you run into issues, there IS a way to "revert back". [...And it's one reason I hesitate on updating].
And always follow "George's Rule": Never update an astronomy-related program just before an upcoming clear night. ;-)
-G
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I loaded the newest version, rebooted my computer, and started the process from scratch--now it works fine.? Another couple of hours of my life I'm not getting back...
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Steve
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From: George <georvisc@...>
To: OccultNEUS <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, 15 July 2024 1:09 PM EDT
Subject: Re: [OccultNEUS] Occult Problem
Steve:
I've also seen this happen before. However I have yet to get that 3rd line - "The request was aborted: ?Could not create SSL/TLS secure channel." That sounds like an Internet connection issue and not a Horizons issue.
...And I now see there is an even newer version - 2024.7.15. I haven't tried this yet.
I recently had issues with 2024.6.30 - when I ran a User File (generated from a List & Display of initial MPC rocks) and got Horizon-based predictions for the same rocks, it would "complete" (without errors), but I got a very shortened list - only 10% as many events as I would normally get.
I could not "fix" this so I dropped back to an earlier Occult4 version that was known to give me good outputs - 2024.5.27. After reverting back, I've had NO issues.
As a last resort, you can "revert back" to a previous version of Occult4.
Over a year ago I asked Dave Herald for a way to do this and he implemented a means to revert back to previous versions.
Essentially, each time you upgrade Occult4 it stores the original .ZIP file (containing files for the update) in the folder where Occult4 lives - under the subfolder "Updates". You simply copy the Zip file of a previous "good" version to a temporary folder somewhere on your computer, unzip its contents, then copy the unzipped files to the \Occult directory (parent folder of Occult). This will overwrite the new update and revert you back to the previous good version. From then on if you see a brand new update, you can simply update to that just like you normally would.
This may get you back up and running.
Also....... Since Occult4 now is storing all the .Zip files of all past updates, to save file space on your computer you may, every now and then, go to the \Update folder and manually delete very old .ZIP files of very old past updates.
You can see how many past updates are stored on your version of Occult4 by going to the Main Page and selecting "Updates...". For me it says, "8 previous versions are in the subdirectory 'Updates' "
George
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Steve:
I've also seen this happen before. However I have yet to get that 3rd line - "The request was aborted: ?Could not create SSL/TLS secure channel." That sounds like an Internet connection issue and not a Horizons issue.
...And I now see there is an even newer version - 2024.7.15. I haven't tried this yet.
I recently had issues with 2024.6.30 - when I ran a User File (generated from a List & Display of initial MPC rocks) and got Horizon-based predictions for the same rocks, it would "complete" (without errors), but I got a very shortened list - only 10% as many events as I would normally get.
I could not "fix" this so I dropped back to an earlier Occult4 version that was known to give me good outputs - 2024.5.27. After reverting back, I've had NO issues.
As a last resort, you can "revert back" to a previous version of Occult4.
Over a year ago I asked Dave Herald for a way to do this and he implemented a means to revert back to previous versions.
Essentially, each time you upgrade Occult4 it stores the original .ZIP file (containing files for the update) in the folder where Occult4 lives - under the subfolder "Updates". You simply copy the Zip file of a previous "good" version to a temporary folder somewhere on your computer, unzip its contents, then copy the unzipped files to the \Occult directory (parent folder of Occult). This will overwrite the new update and revert you back to the previous good version. From then on if you see a brand new update, you can simply update to that just like you normally would.
This may get you back up and running.
Also....... Since Occult4 now is storing all the .Zip files of all past updates, to save file space on your computer you may, every now and then, go to the \Update folder and manually delete very old .ZIP files of very old past updates.
You can see how many past updates are stored on your version of Occult4 by going to the Main Page and selecting "Updates...". For me it says, "8 previous versions are in the subdirectory 'Updates' "
George
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When I click the OK, it just pops up for the next asteroid on the list.? I'm going to try starting a new list from scratch (with reboot in between) and see if that helps--for now I'm dead in the water...
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Steve C
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From: Kevin <greenkevin01@...>
To: occultneus <[email protected]>
Date: Monday, 15 July 2024 10:18 AM EDT
Subject: Re: [OccultNEUS] Occult Problem
I get that Horizons notice frequently. It appears to be due to internet connection issues in my case. The screen is very annoying, because it halts the process until the "OK" button is clicked.
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On Monday, July 15, 2024 at 08:54:57 AM EDT, Steve C via groups.io <conard@...> wrote:
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Anyone else having an issue with refining predictions on Occult?? I'm on rev 4.2024.7.12.? When I try to go through the second round to refine the predictions using Horizons with the first list as an input, it pops up an error window saying:
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Error requesting data from Horizons
Horizons will be skipped for next 20 secs
The request was aborted:? Could not create SSL/TLS secure channel.
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This started Saturday.? I've tried rebooting, restarting Occult, etc., without success.? I guess the only thing I haven't tried yet is generating a new first list--I'll do that next.
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Thanks.
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Steve
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I get that Horizons notice frequently. It appears to be due to internet connection issues in my case. The screen is very annoying, because it halts the process until the "OK" button is clicked.
On Monday, July 15, 2024 at 08:54:57 AM EDT, Steve C via groups.io <conard@...> wrote:
Anyone else having an issue with refining predictions on Occult?? I'm on rev 4.2024.7.12.? When I try to go through the second round to refine the predictions using Horizons with the first list as an input, it pops up an error window saying:
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Error requesting data from Horizons
Horizons will be skipped for next 20 secs
The request was aborted:? Could not create SSL/TLS secure channel.
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This started Saturday.? I've tried rebooting, restarting Occult, etc., without success.? I guess the only thing I haven't tried yet is generating a new first list--I'll do that next.
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Thanks.
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Steve
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Anyone else having an issue with refining predictions on Occult?? I'm on rev 4.2024.7.12.? When I try to go through the second round to refine the predictions using Horizons with the first list as an input, it pops up an error window saying:
?
Error requesting data from Horizons
Horizons will be skipped for next 20 secs
The request was aborted:? Could not create SSL/TLS secure channel.
?
This started Saturday.? I've tried rebooting, restarting Occult, etc., without success.? I guess the only thing I haven't tried yet is generating a new first list--I'll do that next.
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Thanks.
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Steve
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Re: Zoom or Skype session on Occult4
Ah, summertime.... As I thought, it looks like an Occult4 session will be difficult to schedule, and I'm not wanting to spend a bunch of time trying to juggle days. Perhaps individual (or 2 at a time) sessions might be best. 4 persons have now expressed interest... Roxanne, Elizabeth, Rick and Michel (in Canada). I think I'll schedule a session with Rick & Michel soon and Roxanne and Elizabeth can coordinate among themselves for a time they can jointly be free - and let me know (they seem to have the greatest time constraints). Might be best to do semi-individual sessions anyway since I think there will be a wide degree of needs for those looking to get Occult4 running well. I'll get in touch with some folks off-list and schedule something... and maybe post the SET time here. If other can join, that will be fine.
-G
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Re: Multi-site Input in Occult4
I am also on travel with minimal Internet access.
I will try to join if available.
Clear Skies!
Elizabeth Warner
warnerem@...
301.405.6555
Get
On Jul 13, 2024, at 06:16, "R. Kamin" < rlkamin@...> wrote:
Good morning.? An online session regarding Occult would certainly be welcomed.??
Unfortunately, I'll be traveling out of state for a majority of the next 6 weeks.? Most for family, a few days for fun and another trip for SwRI in support of the Lucy Mission.? Yeah, by the end of August,? I'll need a quiet secluded observing vacation just to recover!
Please go ahead and schedule an Occult session at best time for all.? I'll? log in if possible (a welcomed break from family :-) ) . ? Roxanne
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On Sunday, July 7, 2024 at 05:57:13 PM EDT, George Viscome via groups.io <georvisc@...> wrote:
Steve - I just offered it as an example - not as a suggested object to observe.
But actually, IF such an object were a slow moving TNO, with a l-o-n-g duration event, then you could do exposures with your Astrid of 1 to several seconds and you might reach mag 15.5. (That's why I run my Occult4 searches to mag 16 Target Stars).
[With my 14.5-inch I can get to mag 16.4 with a 1 second exposure. My 12 will get mag 15.5 in 1 second - but of course you need multiple data points in the drop].
As it's been mentioned a few times now, let's plan on having a NEUS chat session on Occult4 somewhat soon. I'll look ahead and pick a nite that will be cloudy for all. A later topic might be doing mobile observations and picking sites.
?? -G
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Re: Zoom or Skype session on Occult4
I could do Wednesday. Not sure if that helps. Rick Bria?
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Re: Zoom or Skype session on Occult4
I am not critical to this discussion, but Tuesdays in general don't work for me as that's pub quiz night for our team.
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Steve
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From: George <georvisc@...>
To: OccultNEUS <[email protected]>
Date: Saturday, 13 July 2024 10:42 AM EDT
Subject: [OccultNEUS] Zoom or Skype session on Occult4
I know some are interested in an on-line session on Occult4. I have had it in mind (and don't profess to be any expert on it, tho I use it A LOT). I'd like to schedule a session on a night that I know will be cloudy (lately nights have teased me with clearing).
It looks like this upcoming Tuesday evening (say 7pm-ish) may be cloudy. How would that work?
It seems Roxanne and Elizabeth (I think also Rick) are the ones who have voiced most interest - so I'd like for any night we pick to be ok with them.
Let me know who might be interested and if this upcoming Tuesday 7pm might work.
-G
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Zoom or Skype session on Occult4
I know some are interested in an on-line session on Occult4. I have had it in mind (and don't profess to be any expert on it, tho I use it A LOT). I'd like to schedule a session on a night that I know will be cloudy (lately nights have teased me with clearing).
It looks like this upcoming Tuesday evening (say 7pm-ish) may be cloudy. How would that work?
It seems Roxanne and Elizabeth (I think also Rick) are the ones who have voiced most interest - so I'd like for any night we pick to be ok with them.
Let me know who might be interested and if this upcoming Tuesday 7pm might work.
-G
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Re: Multi-site Input in Occult4
Good morning.? An online session regarding Occult would certainly be welcomed.??
Unfortunately, I'll be traveling out of state for a majority of the next 6 weeks.? Most for family, a few days for fun and another trip for SwRI in support of the Lucy Mission.? Yeah, by the end of August,? I'll need a quiet secluded observing vacation just to recover!
Please go ahead and schedule an Occult session at best time for all.? I'll? log in if possible (a welcomed break from family :-) ) . ? Roxanne
*
On Sunday, July 7, 2024 at 05:57:13 PM EDT, George Viscome via groups.io <georvisc@...> wrote:
Steve - I just offered it as an example - not as a suggested object to observe.
But actually, IF such an object were a slow moving TNO, with a l-o-n-g duration event, then you could do exposures with your Astrid of 1 to several seconds and you might reach mag 15.5. (That's why I run my Occult4 searches to mag 16 Target Stars).
[With my 14.5-inch I can get to mag 16.4 with a 1 second exposure. My 12 will get mag 15.5 in 1 second - but of course you need multiple data points in the drop].
As it's been mentioned a few times now, let's plan on having a NEUS chat session on Occult4 somewhat soon. I'll look ahead and pick a nite that will be cloudy for all. A later topic might be doing mobile observations and picking sites.
?? -G
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Re: (2173) Maresjev on 19 July
Darn, Maresjev looks to be a good event to try from Cherry Springs... but alas, I'll still be on the road some where along I80. After spending a week or so with my family, it is doubtful that making a detour northwards to camp out overnight in the truck for an occultation will go over well with the hubby. ?? I'll have to pass.? - Roxanne.
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On Sunday, July 7, 2024 at 02:15:53 PM EDT, Steve C via groups.io <conard@...> wrote:
This amazing good event is about a week and a half away.? Looks like we've never managed to get any occultation data on this one.? Details:
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Star Mag:? 9.4
Mag Drop:? 7.2
Max Duration:? 4.3 sec
Alt/Az:? 50 @ 153 deg
Time:? 8:25 UT (4:25 EDT)
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Path:? Just south of Detroit, just south of Erie (PA), Warren (PA), Cherry Springs State Park, Scranton, Middletown (NY), West Point, and just south of New Haven.
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Currently there are 7 stations for this event--Steve M in Minnesota plus 6 of us from OccultNEUS.? As it gets closer, I may move my mobile stations to get a better spread of chords.? Anyone else thinking of trying this one?
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Steve C
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Both Kevin and Elizabeth bring up valuable factors to consider.? I'm limited to the Naylor, ROMR and Home fixed sites - for safety more than any other concern.? Plus toss in driving home through overly bright construction zones which blows out one's night vision, I'm becoming less comfortable driving home at odd/early hours.?
One chord or two?? I would have gone for the two single chords option.? IMHO, doing so provides a data contribution across two objects vs one, confirming the orbit of each asteroid and provides collaborating data for future related occultation events. Plus, who knows when another well placed occultation event will take place and the single cord data may be the only data collected on that object for a long time.? - Roxanne
On Sunday, July 7, 2024 at 04:22:48 PM EDT, Kevin Hartnett <kevin.nmi.hartnett@...> wrote:
Hmm...tough call...other factors I'd likely be "weighing" are the cloud cover throughout the area of my observing sites, the safety of the remote sites, whether either occultation was more highly valuable for any reason, and my energy level and commitments the next day.?
Understand that from me, these?thoughts are more academic than experiencial, as I don't really have a great mobile setup at present. I have to cannibalize pieces from my home observatory (a C8 SCT/ATLAS mount on wheels) and use them on a smaller scope - something I'm reluctant to do.The C8 SCT on wheels is WAY TOO MUCH WORK to disassemble and reassemble at a remote site.??
...Kevin? ? ?
I'm curious what others would have done with the situation I had last night.? I had two events 20 minutes apart, both with high probabilities from my home observatory.? The first was quite faint, so unlikely I could get data with my C-5/Astrid set-ups--and I'm getting too old to haul around my C9.25 for remote events.? The second was just bright enough for the C-5/Astrids, but short.? So I could have either (without multiple 2 AM car rides) observed both from home getting single chords (no other observers), or only observed the second but possibly get 2 or 3 chords on that event.? I chose the two single chord option, and did get two positives.? I'm thinking in hindsight I should have gone for multiple chords on the second event...
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Steve
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Re: Multi-site Input in Occult4
I have family in town and not be available Tue-Wed-Thu this week, but I'm not critical for the Occult discussion.
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Steve C
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From: George <georvisc@...>
To: OccultNEUS <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, 7 July 2024 5:57 PM EDT
Subject: Re: [OccultNEUS] Multi-site Input in Occult4
Steve - I just offered it as an example - not as a suggested object to observe.
But actually, IF such an object were a slow moving TNO, with a l-o-n-g duration event, then you could do exposures with your Astrid of 1 to several seconds and you might reach mag 15.5. (That's why I run my Occult4 searches to mag 16 Target Stars).
[With my 14.5-inch I can get to mag 16.4 with a 1 second exposure. My 12 will get mag 15.5 in 1 second - but of course you need multiple data points in the drop].
As it's been mentioned a few times now, let's plan on having a NEUS chat session on Occult4 somewhat soon. I'll look ahead and pick a nite that will be cloudy for all. A later topic might be doing mobile observations and picking sites.
?? -G
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Re: Multi-site Input in Occult4
Steve - I just offered it as an example - not as a suggested object to observe.
But actually, IF such an object were a slow moving TNO, with a l-o-n-g duration event, then you could do exposures with your Astrid of 1 to several seconds and you might reach mag 15.5. (That's why I run my Occult4 searches to mag 16 Target Stars).
[With my 14.5-inch I can get to mag 16.4 with a 1 second exposure. My 12 will get mag 15.5 in 1 second - but of course you need multiple data points in the drop].
As it's been mentioned a few times now, let's plan on having a NEUS chat session on Occult4 somewhat soon. I'll look ahead and pick a nite that will be cloudy for all. A later topic might be doing mobile observations and picking sites.
?? -G
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Re: Multi-site Input in Occult4
George,
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That one is a full magnitude plus fainter than I've even tried (plus the low elevation)--I'm pretty doubtful I'd get anything meaningful from it.
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Steve
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From: George <georvisc@...>
To: OccultNEUS <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, 7 July 2024 2:19 PM EDT
Subject: [OccultNEUS] Multi-site Input in Occult4
Oc-folks:
Just quickly... Whilst making up plans for tonight I ran across a good example of why it's nice to input the Lat & Long of other's sites into Occult4. (I can explain how to do this in a later chat).
In short, in the 2 attached images you can see the sites of other NEUS observers (the "dots"), and when the path is plotted it becomes instantly obvious if the path you are considering passes by anyone else. Here you can see an event I was considering also passes near Steve C and Michel M. If set up correctly you can even access Google Earth from Occult4 and zoom in (way in!) to see how close a path actually runs.
BTW, this event is a bit too faint (maybe?) - 15.5 combined, Max dur of 1.06 sec.
Steve -- I'll be responding to your "Thoughts?" post.... when I have spare moment. Now back to tonight's planning. (Got 1 Pos last night).
George
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Hmm...tough call...other factors I'd likely be "weighing" are the cloud cover throughout the area of my observing sites, the safety of the remote sites, whether either occultation was more highly valuable for any reason, and my energy level and commitments the next day.?
Understand that from me, these?thoughts are more academic than experiencial, as I don't really have a great mobile setup at present. I have to cannibalize pieces from my home observatory (a C8 SCT/ATLAS mount on wheels) and use them on a smaller scope - something I'm reluctant to do.The C8 SCT on wheels is WAY TOO MUCH WORK to disassemble and reassemble at a remote site.??
...Kevin? ? ?
I'm curious what others would have done with the situation I had last night.? I had two events 20 minutes apart, both with high probabilities from my home observatory.? The first was quite faint, so unlikely I could get data with my C-5/Astrid set-ups--and I'm getting too old to haul around my C9.25 for remote events.? The second was just bright enough for the C-5/Astrids, but short.? So I could have either (without multiple 2 AM car rides) observed both from home getting single chords (no other observers), or only observed the second but possibly get 2 or 3 chords on that event.? I chose the two single chord option, and did get two positives.? I'm thinking in hindsight I should have gone for multiple chords on the second event...
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Steve
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Re: Multi-site Input in Occult4
Elizabeth & All:
Be glad to do an Occult4 session. But there is a LOT involved with Occult4, so for anyone interested you probably should familiarize yourself with the past posts I did... the topics are Occult 101, 201, and 301. A least a read-thru so the details in even a basic chat won't be a bit much.
BTW: For planning tonight's adventures I'm sorting thru a list of 108 Occult4-generated potential events. It becomes a research project.
G
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Steve C
George Viscome
rickbria22
Kevin Hartnett