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Hi All:

Version 5.0 is online. It is the start of a migration sequence to a new
format. The only differences in this version is the directory structure of
the macros. A new user will see no functional difference, but if you have a
custom profile name, then you MUST create a macro directory under that name
and put your macro's there. This means no more overwriting personal macro
files when upgrading. You may have as many macro directories as profiles,
and the tooltables are also saved in those directories, so each machine has
its own tool set.
This version fixes a few small bugs as posted earlier in my "Fixed for
next version.." messages. My desk is a mess and I will have to clean up
around here before I start the next round. I've been quite ill this week
with the flu and have been a little slow to respond, my appologies.

Please note that (As posted on the Web Site) ARTSOFT WILL BE CLOSED NEXT
WEEK FOR MARCH BREAK.

I will think of you all while I bask in the tropical rays oif the CanCun
sun. I do have a couple of questions for you all to consider while I'm gone
as I have reached a few decision points on the code for the next version 5.x
release....

1) How intelligent should the toolpath be. What I intend at this point is
that the display will by default show the entire surface of your table
(Taken from the softlimits tables), the X, Y and Z position on that table,
the job as it sits on the table so you can see its position. I intend to add
the capability to drag that job around the table so that it will be cut at
that point. The X,Y, Z gantry will move during the cut showing the position
of all axis. A few buttons will be included to select overall view (as just
described), zoom to part view, zoom to tool view (Showing a small area arund
the tool point) and the usual ISO, LEFT, RIGHT..etc.. views. Some machines
will not be able to display all this without trouble while pulseing so it
will be optional, but many should be able to (My 2.3Ghz seems capable of
it..). This would allow for capabilities at some point like "click and go"
to go to a particular spot.

2) How about the new single function screens. I intend at this point to
cheat the system a bit. In order to maintain compaability with everyones
screens goin way back, Mach2 will have its normal default screens. And a
list of user screens , each with their own directory and bitmap folders.
When a User Functional screen is selected, the main defaults will shut down,
and the new Functionals open up. This allows any Conversational or
Functional Screen set to be multiple pages, use the same screen designer,
and use any OEM numbers for controls and such with no interference with the
main screens. The entire program would appear to switch to that functional
type of program. Hitting "Done" would instantly flash it back to Mach2's
default screens. This really is more of a grouping of screens by function
type of change, but may make a lot of sense in the context of Conversational
work. It would allow for Wizard type of screen sets with Next and Back
buttons allowing a user to step through a complex process to create an end
result. Also, the screens usage will be encouraged to follow the new
teaching mode where all the code"xxmxmxmx" statements from scripts are
stored to a file which is automatically loaded when you hit done. So you
enter the functional domain, follow the instructions and a G-Code file is
created which is then autoloaded and your back in MAch2 ready to run it.
Seems to make more sense than having User screens do movement without being
on the proper screen for movement.


Anyway, these are just the things I plan for, your comments are welcome,
of course I have other parallel projects like finishing the Gecko and more
turning code. I like the thought of functional screens for turning as it may
allow a beginner to see a process step by step to a finished G-Code result.
Then run it.

Anyway, I will be around tommorrow, then I'm burnt...I mean gone...

Thanks,
Art
www.artofcnc.ca

Fantastic Art !
Jim

Hi All:

Version 5.0 is online. It is the start of a migration sequence

to a new

format. The only differences in this version is the directory

structure of

the macros. A new user will see no functional difference, but if

you have

a

custom profile name, then you MUST create a macro directory under

that

name

and put your macro's there. This means no more overwriting

personal macro

files when upgrading. You may have as many macro directories as

profiles,

and the tooltables are also saved in those directories, so each

machine

has

its own tool set.
This version fixes a few small bugs as posted earlier in

my "Fixed for

next version.." messages. My desk is a mess and I will have to

clean up

around here before I start the next round. I've been quite ill

this week

with the flu and have been a little slow to respond, my

appologies.

<SNIP>

Hello Art

I hope you Have a great time in the Sun!! It is snowing here (Maine)
so it will be there soon ;0). The 4th axis is better and worse... I
think you did something to the only A move. if I try to do a G00
A360.0 the motor will miss steps, Not even move. I can do anything to
the settings and it still will not work. I can move the X and A at
the same time!!! But the motor still seems to have problems with the
Accels that mach2 is giving it. I had to set the x and a Axis very
low to get it to run.

Have a good time (and THANK YOU)
Brian

PS Drink BEER (I am, will, and do !!)
PSS I don't drink things with worms in it...

Thanks Art for this version 5.0

I tried to use the Microsoft script debugger on it without success. I didn't
get mach2 in the "running documents" window of the debugger, even if there
is a running macro.


i'm using version 1.0.72.95



Have some nice holidays.

Olivier.

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 18:50:12 -0400, you wrote:

I will think of you all while I bask in the tropical rays oif the CanCun
sun. I do have a couple of questions for you all to consider while I'm gone
as I have reached a few decision points on the code for the next version 5.x
release....

1) How intelligent should the toolpath be.

How about

How intelligent should the toolpath "display" be?

Lets take into account tool offsets!

As it stand now the display is no more than a rough estimation of
where the tool may go! It's caused more than one or two queries in the
past!!

One turning job done recently used a long boring bar, after carefully
centering/zooming the "stock" - the toolpath displayed was completely
off view!!

Instead of concentrating on CAM/Macro functions, bells and whistles
let's get the controller fully funtional!

Toolpath display has been really neglected -how about fixing it
please!

--
Steve Blackmore

--- In mach1mach2cnc@..., Art <fenerty@a...> wrote:

Hi All:

1) How intelligent should the toolpath be. What I intend at this

point is

Anyway, I will be around tommorrow, then I'm burnt...I mean gone...

Thanks,
Art
www.artofcnc.ca

Hello Art, get brown a little, get drunk a little and get rid off
flu and have a splended break in the sun.

For intelligent toolpath how about seeing the millpad from the tool
along the toolpad and let the pad by visual all the time.
Thanks and regards
Cees

I'm right with you Steve. The toolpath display don't need a high priority on
"the list". Just a bug correction for the moment. According to me there are
others things to do before, like 3D mapping, conversational screens, gecko
mode, turn roughing - finishing cycles, encoder feedback on gecko mode,
advanced digitizing...


Olivier.

On Saturday 06 March 2004 10:25, Digital audio Pro wrote:

I'm right with you Steve. The toolpath display don't need a high priority
on "the list". Just a bug correction for the moment. According to me there
are others things to do before, like:

3D mapping,

this IMHO is a CAM feature not a controller feature

conversational screens,

yep, they are going to be handy

gecko mode,

not sure what you mean ... it works with geckos just fine

turn roughing - finishing cycles,

? almost certainly CAM features. writing machining strategies into your
controller is a very Bad Plan (tm) usually, as one persons idea of the
correct strategy is rarely what someone else wants.

encoder feedback on gecko

umm tricky. and probably pointless. If you have missed a step then htere
are two reasons:

mechanical (too much torque required) .. well there is nothing you can do,
the motor failed to move because forces where too high, then throwing more
pulses at it is not going to help is it?

electrical (noise, bad signal) ... well if the motor failed to step because
the signal was messed up, how do you know it wasn't the *encoder* signal that
was messed up? .. sort the wiring out and hte problem goes away.

mode, advanced digitizing...

advanced? in what way? ...

Olivier.







Yahoo! Groups Links

--
RapidCut CNC Technology

CNC Plasma Cutter

On Friday 05 March 2004 22:50, Art wrote:

1) How intelligent should the toolpath be. What I intend at this point is
that the display will by default show the entire surface of your table
(Taken from the softlimits tables), the X, Y and Z position on that table,
the job as it sits on the table so you can see its position.

thats neat, I like that.

I'll settle for 'the display not being all wrong while cutting if you do a
G92 after loading the part' though ;)

I intend to
add the capability to drag that job around the table so that it will be cut
at that point.

probably not so useful. In reallity, all positioning will be done with
reference to the real materials, which are likely not the same size as the
bed ... positioning the cutter/torch is usually to the effective 0,0 of the
sheet .. I can see being able to position it top bottom, left, right on a
sheet being useful, but arbitary positioning is likely to be to use
part-sheets, and that will need reference to the actual material.

The X,Y, Z gantry will move during the cut showing the
position of all axis.

hmmm ... not so certain thats actually useful. It sounds fun to do from a
programming point of view ( a 3d modle of the machine etc), but Im not sure
its useful.

A few buttons will be included to select overall view

(as just described), zoom to part view, zoom to tool view (Showing a small
area arund the tool point) and the usual ISO, LEFT, RIGHT..etc.. views.
Some machines will not be able to display all this without trouble while
pulseing so it will be optional, but many should be able to (My 2.3Ghz
seems capable of it..).

This would allow for capabilities at some point
like "click and go" to go to a particular spot.

now That WOULD be useful .. one thing I continually get asked for is 'how can
I continue this cut from where the plasma went off' .. like it did the other
day as a customers compressor was not up to the job ,, you're stuffed at the
moment. no way to do a run from here as that system seems pretty much Mill
specific and the 'start spindle' functionality is not ideal. What really
needs to be doen is either some 'click on the toolpath' and then hit go, and
Mach2 figures out whether the plasma should be on or off at that point.
better yet would be a back-up, to reverse along the toolpath, but thats not
so easy I suspect.


A *VERY* useful feature in a sheet of nested parts (and htis would apply to
routers as well as plasma) would be to be able to click on a part on the
table and have mach 2 run the code from the start of that part. perhaps
specifying somewhere a regex that matches the comment line that appears at
the beginning of each part block.

Waht some BIG machines do is use a subroutine for each part, the main program
jsut calling subs, thats a lot easier to sort out then.

--
RapidCut CNC Technology

CNC Plasma Cutter

HI Brian:

I hope you Have a great time in the Sun!! It is snowing here (Maine)
so it will be there soon ;0). The 4th axis is better and worse... I
think you did something to the only A move.

Very strange. No, I did nothing to the A only moves, the change I did
should have applied only to mixed moves including an angular component....I
have removed these changes and will investigate furhter when I return..
Something very queer going on here... I'll have to try something else when I
get back...

Thanks for the testing Brian, we'll get there eventualy...

Thanks,
Art

Hi Olivier:

I'll look into this, it puills upo the debugger on mine, but it mnay be a
different config of my system or soemthing...


Art
www.artofcnc.ca

Robin, sorry for my bad english, you didn't understood all what i mean.

3D mapping is not a CAM feature. It is for compensating geometric distorsion
of the physical axis (bending, perpendicularity, linear lenght distorsion).
It is implemented on most or perhaps all professional controlers, but it
could be even more usefull on hobbist machines because their geometry is not
always perfect, and sometimes bad, specially for the Z axis
perpendicularity.

There is no need for lasers and high tech machines to create these 3D
compensation tables. just a good precision square and a caliper.For linear
compensation we could use a linear glass encoder with a mach2 macro to
create the table.


Gecko mode is for the gecko 2002.

Sometimes there is no need to go through a CAM program for simple parts.
G70, 71, 72 if i remeber are simple turn cycles for roughing - finishing.
There is too the G96 constant surface speed to implement in mach2.

Encoder feedback pointless ? : all professional machines have encoder
feedback, sometimes with a double feedback, even if they use steppers. If
there is a cutting problem on the machine, for example a breaked insert, or
a raimaining error in the program, the load will be so high on the motors
you will lost step most of the time. If there is no feedback you can :

- destroy the part

- destroy the tool

- destroy all things sitting on the machine table like fixture

- destroy the spindle and / or bend the machine frame

- destroy the operator


Mach2 give the possibility to use servo feedback with external gecko 302
drivers for example, that's fine. But there is actually no possibility to
use a linear encoder feedback system for a better precision / control.


Advanced digitizing : for example to digitize non rectangular parts. Did you
try to digitize a circular part ? the rectangular moves will wast a lot of
time.


Best regards,

Olivier.

A *VERY* useful feature in a sheet of nested parts

This can be a CAM function...


Olivier.

Steve:

Lets take into account tool offsets!
As it stand now the display is no more than a rough estimation of
where the tool may go! It's caused more than one or two queries in the
past!!

Yes, this is an issue that I'd like to put to rest, unfortunately, its
much more difficult than most would think, unless I do a redraw all the
time. For example, you load a job, so the G-Code is translated to create a
toolpath. It has no choice but to use current offsets and locations as the
drawing parameters. This means if you change a tool, zero to a new position,
basically change anything, then the drawing is no longer accurate. A regen
is required. But you can imagine the problem if I do a redraw everytime some
one changes something. A 500,000 line drawing can take 2 seconds to redraw
on the slower machines, this means a 2 second redraw occuring possibly in
the worst possible moment and affecting the cut.
Luckily, this has affected some users more than others. Typically,
the more experienced ones with the more complex programs. The reason I'm
looking at redoing it all is that exact reason, in order to eliminate the
kludges which have created the trouble. (Actually, mill works much better
than turn does in terms of drawing, lately I have only fixed the mill
drawing , as I know turn will be the biggest challenge...)
That why this particular fix has one of the highest priorities...

Art
www.artofcnc.ca

Thanks art. Wich debugger are you using ? the free one on the Microsoft site
or an embedded visual studio one ? perhaps they are not the same.

Olivier.

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 07:47:20 -0400, you wrote:

Lets take into account tool offsets!
As it stand now the display is no more than a rough estimation of
where the tool may go! It's caused more than one or two queries in the
past!!

Yes, this is an issue that I'd like to put to rest, unfortunately, its
much more difficult than most would think, unless I do a redraw all the
time. For example, you load a job, so the G-Code is translated to create a
toolpath. It has no choice but to use current offsets and locations as the
drawing parameters. This means if you change a tool, zero to a new position,
basically change anything, then the drawing is no longer accurate. A regen
is required. But you can imagine the problem if I do a redraw everytime some
one changes something. A 500,000 line drawing can take 2 seconds to redraw
on the slower machines, this means a 2 second redraw occuring possibly in
the worst possible moment and affecting the cut.

A regen whilst paused during tool changes shouldn't cause any problem
should it? Maybe give the option of ignoring tool/work offsets
completely for display purposes.

Luckily, this has affected some users more than others. Typically,
the more experienced ones with the more complex programs. The reason I'm
looking at redoing it all is that exact reason, in order to eliminate the
kludges which have created the trouble. (Actually, mill works much better
than turn does in terms of drawing, lately I have only fixed the mill
drawing , as I know turn will be the biggest challenge...)
That why this particular fix has one of the highest priorities...

Thanks. As it stands it's impossible to tell if the gcode is going to
do what you expect without using an external program when tool offsets
are used.

--
Steve Blackmore

On Saturday 06 March 2004 11:45, Digital audio Pro wrote:

Robin, sorry for my bad english, you didn't understood all what i mean.

3D mapping is not a CAM feature. It is for compensating geometric
distorsion of the physical axis

right, understood. This is already implemented in EMC to some extent (the
forward/reverse kinematics and the leadscrew non-linearity compensation
tables) so I suspect it can be added to mach2 easily enough, as the hooks
might already be there to some extent.

Gecko mode is for the gecko 2002.

right, I thought you meant for G201 etc ...understood.

Sometimes there is no need to go through a CAM program for simple parts.
G70, 71, 72 if i remeber are simple turn cycles for roughing - finishing.
There is too the G96 constant surface speed to implement in mach2.

hmm ... agreed. these are machine specific features, but yes, adding them
does help I guess. I have some specific features I;d like to see for plasma,
so I undertand this.

Encoder feedback pointless ? : all professional machines have encoder
feedback, sometimes with a double feedback, even if they use steppers.

OK, I havent seen any pro machines with steppers and encoders, but if you say
they exist .. I'll believe you. What is probably not possible to do in Mach2
is use the encoder as part of the feedback loop, as in true servo control.
many of the the encoders can end up outputting quadrature pulses af several
hundred kilohertz and reading it into the parallel port of Mach2 is probably
not feasible. You'd need a proper dedicated counter and some way of reading
it I guess ... and even then, what do you do if they are in error? All I can
see to do with a stepper is abort the program, recovery could be difficult.

Using linear scales liek Rennishaw encoders etc to provide real feedback
would also need a servo card .. I cant see how it would fit in with the
current scheme, but Art would have to answer that to be sure.

Advanced digitizing : for example to digitize non rectangular parts. Did
you try to digitize a circular part ? the rectangular moves will wast a lot
of time.

yes, but really that is not a digitizing question, that is a post processing
of the digitized data. IMHO, Mach2 should be capable of getting the data as
a point cloud, but the act of identifying features (such as circles, straight
edges, corners) and producing machining strategies is the job of an external
application ...


--
RapidCut CNC Technology

CNC Plasma Cutter

IMHO, Mach2 should be capable of getting the data as

a point cloud, but the act of identifying features (such as circles,
straight
edges, corners) and producing machining strategies is the job of an external
application ...

Or a "Single Funcion Screen set..." ;)

Art
www.artofcnc.ca

Setup worksheets.

Monte
(sorry, couldn't resist)

On Sat, 06 Mar 2004 23:20:05 -0000, you wrote:

Setup worksheets.

CAM function!

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Neither could I..
--
Steve Blackmore