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Re: Electrical Noise
开云体育Hi John There is nothing worse than a machine that you can't trust.? I feel your frustration.? I have an ethernet Smooth Stepper that has done 14 hour jobs and never missed a beat. Running on XP. Dave Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: John Dammeyer <johnd@...> Date: 29/01/2020 5:44 pm (GMT+00:00) Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise And mine is this one: ? For all I know this is causing a problem during homng. E-Stop, Fault, ERR/RST, and "Charge Pump" timeouts turn off all outputs without assistance from host software ? If for some reason the Fault or E-Stop inputs have a spurious pulse then I could see it stopping on homing Z.? ? Or if the MACH3 Homing Z software does something odd occasionally with the charge pump this would also cause issues.? And some sort of WIN-XP issues could cause the charge pump to vanish shortly after booting WIN-XP. ? That would also explain why the problem never shows up on LinuxCNC with the parallel port or the MESA Ethernet 7i92H.? If it comes back I may just 'borrow' the USB Smooth Stepper from my CNC router.? Another option is to set the dip switch on the PMDX-126 to disable Charge Pump.? ? May not be electrical at all. ? John ? ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of dave via Groups.Io ? Hi Spencer ? No.? Some are straight though... ? ? ? ? But read the spec on this one... ? ? ? Dave ? Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. ? ? -------- Original message -------- From: spencer@... Date: 29/01/2020 5:14 pm (GMT+00:00) Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise ? I have been following this thread but not carefully because I didn't think I had a problem. Now I am thinking that some minor drift I have over time could be missed steps not mechanical as I thought.? ? Is there any problem setting the debounce time as 10 or 20 us?? if this is input debouncing then what signals are being considers as noise sources, limit switches? there is no position feedback? ? also, aren't all break out boards opto issolated? ? ? ? Best regards, Spencer Chase ? ------ Original Message ------ From: "dave via Groups.Io" <qconvers@...> Sent: 1/29/2020 6:00:22 AM Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise ?
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Re: Electrical Noise
开云体育And mine is this one: ? For all I know this is causing a problem during homng. E-Stop, Fault, ERR/RST, and "Charge Pump" timeouts turn off all outputs without assistance from host software ? If for some reason the Fault or E-Stop inputs have a spurious pulse then I could see it stopping on homing Z.? ? Or if the MACH3 Homing Z software does something odd occasionally with the charge pump this would also cause issues.? And some sort of WIN-XP issues could cause the charge pump to vanish shortly after booting WIN-XP. ? That would also explain why the problem never shows up on LinuxCNC with the parallel port or the MESA Ethernet 7i92H.? If it comes back I may just 'borrow' the USB Smooth Stepper from my CNC router.? Another option is to set the dip switch on the PMDX-126 to disable Charge Pump.? ? May not be electrical at all. ? John ? ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of dave via Groups.Io
Sent: January-29-20 9:31 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise ? Hi Spencer ? No.? Some are straight though... ? ? ? ? But read the spec on this one... ? ? ? Dave ? Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. ? ? -------- Original message -------- From: spencer@... Date: 29/01/2020 5:14 pm (GMT+00:00) Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise ? I have been following this thread but not carefully because I didn't think I had a problem. Now I am thinking that some minor drift I have over time could be missed steps not mechanical as I thought.? ? Is there any problem setting the debounce time as 10 or 20 us?? if this is input debouncing then what signals are being considers as noise sources, limit switches? there is no position feedback? ? also, aren't all break out boards opto issolated? ? ? ? Best regards, Spencer Chase ? ------ Original Message ------ From: "dave via Groups.Io" <qconvers@...> Sent: 1/29/2020 6:00:22 AM Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise ?
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Re: Electrical Noise
开云体育Hi Dave, I have a PMDX-126 which is optically isolated for inputs and the control outputs.? The Step/Dir are not under the assumption that most drives are.? In my case they are. ? The problem has temporarily gone away again. No matter what I do, which includes twisting the stepper motor wire along the ESTOP and LIMIT switch wires, I can now home the Z without issue. ? I'm still going to rewire the Z motor cable but it's a perplexing problem. John ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of dave via Groups.Io
Sent: January-29-20 6:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise ? I've posted my solution to electrical noise on this forum a few times and no one has come back and said it did or didn't work for them, but when I had random missed steps? and spent a long time trying to find the fault... I fitted an Opto isolated BOB and I've never had a missed step since. Problem solved. ? Dave ? ? ? Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. ? ? -------- Original message -------- From: John Dammeyer <johnd@...> Date: 29/01/2020 12:55 am (GMT+00:00) Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise ? > chuck via Groups.Io |
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Re: Electrical Noise
开云体育Hi Spencer No.? Some are straight though... https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Breakout-board-BM01?search=Break%20out%20board But read the spec on this one... https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Breakout-board-CP0-10V-CNC-4-Axis-with-Charge-Pump?search=Break%20out%20board Dave Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: spencer@... Date: 29/01/2020 5:14 pm (GMT+00:00) Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise I have been following this thread but not carefully because I didn't think I had a problem. Now I am thinking that some minor drift I have over time could be missed steps not mechanical as I thought.? Is there any problem setting the debounce time as 10 or 20 us?? if this is input debouncing then what signals are being considers as noise sources, limit switches? there is no position feedback? also, aren't all break out boards opto issolated?
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Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550 Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... Spencer@... Spencer@... (425) 791-0309 (707) 223-8212 ------ Original Message ------
From: "dave via Groups.Io" <qconvers@...>
Sent: 1/29/2020 6:00:22 AM
Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise
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Re: Electrical Noise
I have been following this thread but not carefully because I didn't think I had a problem. Now I am thinking that some minor drift I have over time could be missed steps not mechanical as I thought.? Is there any problem setting the debounce time as 10 or 20 us?? if this is input debouncing then what signals are being considers as noise sources, limit switches? there is no position feedback? also, aren't all break out boards opto issolated?
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Best regards, Spencer Chase 67550 Bell Springs Rd. Garberville, CA 95542 Postal service only. Laytonville, CA 95454 UPS only. Spencer@... Spencer@... Spencer@... (425) 791-0309 (707) 223-8212 ------ Original Message ------
From: "dave via Groups.Io" <qconvers@...>
Sent: 1/29/2020 6:00:22 AM
Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise
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Re: Electrical Noise
开云体育I've posted my solution to electrical noise on this forum a few times and no one has come back and said it did or didn't work for them, but when I had random missed steps? and spent a long time trying to find the fault... I fitted an Opto isolated BOB and I've never had a missed step since. Problem solved. Dave Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone. -------- Original message -------- From: John Dammeyer <johnd@...> Date: 29/01/2020 12:55 am (GMT+00:00) Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise > have you tried the debounce input setting in general config? had a similar > issue long time ago and debounce cured it. don't remember what I had to set > it at but it worked. > haven't used Mach3 for quite a while. > Chuck Just tried that.? And the problem with working on these types of issues is what I just ran into.? I set it to 10x40uS.? Quit. Restarted MACH3 and homed over a 4" distance.? No problem.? Perfect.? Moved the knee back up. Set the debounce back to 0.? Shut down.? Restarted MACH3 and homed again over a 4" distance.? No failure.? Now it won't fail. Sigh.? I think I'll leave it at 5x40uS and see what happens while I fab up a new cable and connector that lets me deal with the shield better. If all was working right (as in wrong)? it would fail repeatedly without a debounce but succeed with a debounce.? Then I could change wiring, add ferrites etc. and watch the problem vanish.? But no.? It's going to be stubborn. John > |
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Re: Electrical Noise
chuck via Groups.IoJust tried that. And the problem with working on these types of issues is what I just ran into. I set it to 10x40uS. Quit. Restarted MACH3 and homed over a 4" distance. No problem. Perfect. Moved the knee back up. Set the debounce back to 0. Shut down. Restarted MACH3 and homed again over a 4" distance. No failure. Now it won't fail. Sigh. I think I'll leave it at 5x40uS and see what happens while I fab up a new cable and connector that lets me deal with the shield better. If all was working right (as in wrong) it would fail repeatedly without a debounce but succeed with a debounce. Then I could change wiring, add ferrites etc. and watch the problem vanish. But no. It's going to be stubborn. John |
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Re: Electrical Noise
have you tried the debounce input setting in general config? had a similar issue long time ago and debounce cured it. don't remember what I had to set it at but it worked.
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haven't used Mach3 for quite a while. Chuck ----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dammeyer" <johnd@...> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise I went into the config page and checked the 5kHz charge pump. The only repeatable failure I'm getting on a regular basis is when I home the Z axis. Here's what happens: 1. Ref All Home button. a. Z axis Knee (Gecko Stepper driver with 1200oz-in motor, 60VDC) heads down at about F10 b. Z axis knee stops with ESTOP message. c. This happens a number of times until it finally makes it to the home switch. d. Then X and Y (HP_UHU Brushed DC Servo 105VDC) silently move to their home positions no problems. 2. G00 X0 Y0 Z0 which is mid table and mid Z distance a. All axis move simultaneously. 3. G01 Z4.000 F10.0 to move knee back close to home/limit switch a. Moves perfectly at same speed as homing. So while moving the system theoretically is always looking for the limit switch. While Homing the system is looking for the home/limit switch. The only thing moving is the Z and at roughly the same speed as homing. But it won't stop with a move. 4 or 5 tries with an ESTOP while homing. None of this happens with the parallel port interface under LinuxCNC (same hardware, dual boot to other system). So I'd say the noise filtering on the home/limit switch is different for homing under MACH than it is under normal motion while under LinuxCNC the filtering is the same for both operations. Therefore I need to look at how the limit switches might be picking up noise of course and add some ferrites to the Stepper motor cable. They are Normally closed micro-switches connected directly to the PMDX-126 inputs. But that all the other motion operations do not have an ESTOP puts the issue squarely with MACH3 Homing operation. And the up side is that if I can rewire my Stepper Motor for the knee with better shielding and ferrites so that it doesn't ESTOP on homing then I know I'll have eradicated noise at the source. Which is a good thing. But still curious why only MACH and only with homing. Suggestions? Thanks John From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dan Mauch Sent: January-28-20 10:03 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise Years ago there was an issue with the charge pump frequency not associated with a laser. It was many years ago but you might try to do a search in the archives about charge pump freq. I vaguely recall that some devices had a problem and that they fixed it but not sure how. Dan Mauch |
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Re: Electrical Noise
开云体育I went into the config page and checked the 5kHz charge pump.? The only repeatable failure I'm getting on a regular basis is when I home the Z axis. ? Here's what happens: 1.????? Ref All Home button.? a.?????? Z axis Knee (Gecko Stepper driver with 1200oz-in motor, 60VDC) heads down at about F10 b.????? Z axis knee stops with ESTOP message. c.?????? This happens a number of times until it finally makes it to the home switch. d.????? Then X and Y (HP_UHU Brushed DC Servo 105VDC) silently move to their home positions no problems. 2.????? G00 X0 Y0 Z0 ?which is mid table and mid Z distance a.?????? All axis move simultaneously. 3.????? G01 Z4.000 F10.0 to move knee back close to home/limit switch a.?????? Moves perfectly at same speed as homing. ? So while moving the system theoretically is always looking for the limit switch.? While Homing the system is looking for the home/limit switch.? The only thing moving is the Z and at roughly the same speed as homing.? But it won't stop with a move.? 4 or 5 tries with an ESTOP while homing. ? None of this happens with the parallel port interface under LinuxCNC (same hardware, dual boot to other system). ? So I'd say the noise filtering on the home/limit switch is different for homing under MACH than it is under normal motion while under LinuxCNC the filtering is the same for both operations. ? Therefore I need to look at how the limit switches might be picking up noise of course and add some ferrites to the Stepper motor cable. They are Normally closed micro-switches connected directly to the PMDX-126 inputs.? But that all the other motion operations do not have an ESTOP puts the issue squarely with MACH3 Homing operation. ? And the up side is that if I can rewire my Stepper Motor for the knee with better shielding and ferrites so that it doesn't ESTOP on homing then I know I'll have eradicated noise at the source.? Which is a good thing.?? But still curious why only MACH and only with homing. ? Suggestions? ? Thanks John ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dan Mauch
Sent: January-28-20 10:03 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise ? Years ago there was an issue with the charge pump frequency not associated with? a laser. It was many years ago but you might try to do a search in the archives about charge pump freq. I vaguely recall that some devices had a problem and that they fixed it but not sure how. |
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Re: Electrical Noise
Years ago there was an issue with the charge pump frequency not associated with? a laser. It was many years ago but you might try to do a search in the archives about charge pump freq. I vaguely recall that some devices had a problem and that they fixed it but not sure how.
Dan Mauch |
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Re: Electrical Noise
开云体育What will that do?? Easy to try but I'm curious what you expect to see happen. Thanks for the feedback. John ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Dan Mauch
Sent: January-28-20 9:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise ? Sometimes making a problem worse provides the solution to the issue at hand. In Mach3 go to config>general config and on the right side clcik on the box for 5KHz for laser. See if that provides any insight to the problem. |
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Re: Electrical Noise
开云体育Hi Martin, Peter, I'll check.? Status on this part of the project is that all appears to be working even if not exactly the way I'd like.? I still have to cycle the ENABLE button on the MACH3 display in order to 'trick' the system after an ESTOP but theoretically I should never see an ESTOP anyway…right? ? In either case I now have the adaptor board that holds the little PWM to 10V analog output all working.? Op.tically isolates the ENABLE/STEP/DIR inputs and provides an open collector FAULT output.? Power is 16V unregulated from the second 12V winding of the transformer for the Gecko power supply.? The DB-25 goes directly to the Bergerda drive with the correct pinout for it.? The 0-10V output goes to that little green connector. ? I can set MACH3 to be PWM and set up the Bergerda AC Serco to use analog for speed control and the motor can be sent in either direction from about 200 RPM up to about 2950 RPM.? Or I can set the Bergerda up to use step/dir? pulses and check the other box for spindle stepping.? Now I get 0 to 3000 RPM.? There don't appear to be any noise issues and everything except for the spindle motor as shown in the attached picture is on the mill.? ? Nice seeing a G-Code program run and turn on/off the spindle automatically.? Now I've had that feature on the CNC router with a relay for years with the USB Smooth Stepper and PMDX-125.? But now I have variable speed on a 1.8kW AC Servo.? Very cool.? Can't wait to build the mounting plates for the motor now. ? ? Next up.? The MODIO. John Dammeyer ? ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Martin Connelly
Sent: January-13-20 7:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MachCNC] Electrical Noise ? Are both boots driving the parallel port to 0 volt and 5 volt levels? I think some parallel port drivers in Windows run closer to 3.5 volts. Check parallel port settings in the power on settings as well. Martin? |
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Re: mach3 configuration
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Re: mach3 reset not working
?The green light only indicates that you have 5V from the USB hub to the uc100. The LED on the other side is a blue LED that is on when the UC100 is initiated and starts up from Mach 3. If you don't see the other led turn on blue than you might have a setup problem.? In mach3 click on CONFIG, then on Config Plugins aand then click on check for new plugin version. If you have everything connected properly it should show and update. If not then the firewall may be preventing the UCC plugin to function. Last go to c:\mach3\plugins and make sure that the uc100.dll is there.
Dan Mauch |
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Re: mach3 reset not working
开云体育I had this happen as well. I went into config and unchecked the box on UC100 and rechecked and all was back to normal. ? Sent from for Windows 10 ? From: Rick via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2020 8:58 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [MachCNC] mach3 reset not working ? ok I have been running mach3 with the uc-100 controller on my laptop with no problems. The other day my computer gave up and went to a blue screen. I purchased a new computer , installed mach3, the license and the uc-100 driver. The reset will not clear and I cannot run the cnc router. I did the same with my desktop compter and got the same results. I hear the controller activate and the light on the uc-100 is solid green indicating all is well. HELP!!!! ? |
