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Steve:

Lets take into account tool offsets!
As it stand now the display is no more than a rough estimation of
where the tool may go! It's caused more than one or two queries in the
past!!

Yes, this is an issue that I'd like to put to rest, unfortunately, its
much more difficult than most would think, unless I do a redraw all the
time. For example, you load a job, so the G-Code is translated to create a
toolpath. It has no choice but to use current offsets and locations as the
drawing parameters. This means if you change a tool, zero to a new position,
basically change anything, then the drawing is no longer accurate. A regen
is required. But you can imagine the problem if I do a redraw everytime some
one changes something. A 500,000 line drawing can take 2 seconds to redraw
on the slower machines, this means a 2 second redraw occuring possibly in
the worst possible moment and affecting the cut.
Luckily, this has affected some users more than others. Typically,
the more experienced ones with the more complex programs. The reason I'm
looking at redoing it all is that exact reason, in order to eliminate the
kludges which have created the trouble. (Actually, mill works much better
than turn does in terms of drawing, lately I have only fixed the mill
drawing , as I know turn will be the biggest challenge...)
That why this particular fix has one of the highest priorities...

Art
www.artofcnc.ca

A *VERY* useful feature in a sheet of nested parts

This can be a CAM function...


Olivier.

Robin, sorry for my bad english, you didn't understood all what i mean.

3D mapping is not a CAM feature. It is for compensating geometric distorsion
of the physical axis (bending, perpendicularity, linear lenght distorsion).
It is implemented on most or perhaps all professional controlers, but it
could be even more usefull on hobbist machines because their geometry is not
always perfect, and sometimes bad, specially for the Z axis
perpendicularity.

There is no need for lasers and high tech machines to create these 3D
compensation tables. just a good precision square and a caliper.For linear
compensation we could use a linear glass encoder with a mach2 macro to
create the table.


Gecko mode is for the gecko 2002.

Sometimes there is no need to go through a CAM program for simple parts.
G70, 71, 72 if i remeber are simple turn cycles for roughing - finishing.
There is too the G96 constant surface speed to implement in mach2.

Encoder feedback pointless ? : all professional machines have encoder
feedback, sometimes with a double feedback, even if they use steppers. If
there is a cutting problem on the machine, for example a breaked insert, or
a raimaining error in the program, the load will be so high on the motors
you will lost step most of the time. If there is no feedback you can :

- destroy the part

- destroy the tool

- destroy all things sitting on the machine table like fixture

- destroy the spindle and / or bend the machine frame

- destroy the operator


Mach2 give the possibility to use servo feedback with external gecko 302
drivers for example, that's fine. But there is actually no possibility to
use a linear encoder feedback system for a better precision / control.


Advanced digitizing : for example to digitize non rectangular parts. Did you
try to digitize a circular part ? the rectangular moves will wast a lot of
time.


Best regards,

Olivier.

Steve:

Am I going to get any advantage fitting this multi slot sensor?

I can easily change belt ratios and get smooth spindle speeds at
100rpm with the motor doing 1000rpm.

I don't think you will. All the tests youve been running for us over the
last several months gives me a fairly good view of your lathes stability and
its actually quite a stable beast. Single slot is probably good enough on
your system, but Multi slot might give a slight improvement when taking deep
cuts. (Course, you wouldn't do that....)


Art
www.artofcnc.ca

Hi Olivier:

I'll look into this, it puills upo the debugger on mine, but it mnay be a
different config of my system or soemthing...


Art
www.artofcnc.ca

HI Brian:

I hope you Have a great time in the Sun!! It is snowing here (Maine)
so it will be there soon ;0). The 4th axis is better and worse... I
think you did something to the only A move.

Very strange. No, I did nothing to the A only moves, the change I did
should have applied only to mixed moves including an angular component....I
have removed these changes and will investigate furhter when I return..
Something very queer going on here... I'll have to try something else when I
get back...

Thanks for the testing Brian, we'll get there eventualy...

Thanks,
Art

Hi Bengt:

No, that kind of computer looks like it should track any future changes
well.

Thanks,
Art
www.artofcnc.ca

On Friday 05 March 2004 22:50, Art wrote:

1) How intelligent should the toolpath be. What I intend at this point is
that the display will by default show the entire surface of your table
(Taken from the softlimits tables), the X, Y and Z position on that table,
the job as it sits on the table so you can see its position.

thats neat, I like that.

I'll settle for 'the display not being all wrong while cutting if you do a
G92 after loading the part' though ;)

I intend to
add the capability to drag that job around the table so that it will be cut
at that point.

probably not so useful. In reallity, all positioning will be done with
reference to the real materials, which are likely not the same size as the
bed ... positioning the cutter/torch is usually to the effective 0,0 of the
sheet .. I can see being able to position it top bottom, left, right on a
sheet being useful, but arbitary positioning is likely to be to use
part-sheets, and that will need reference to the actual material.

The X,Y, Z gantry will move during the cut showing the
position of all axis.

hmmm ... not so certain thats actually useful. It sounds fun to do from a
programming point of view ( a 3d modle of the machine etc), but Im not sure
its useful.

A few buttons will be included to select overall view

(as just described), zoom to part view, zoom to tool view (Showing a small
area arund the tool point) and the usual ISO, LEFT, RIGHT..etc.. views.
Some machines will not be able to display all this without trouble while
pulseing so it will be optional, but many should be able to (My 2.3Ghz
seems capable of it..).

This would allow for capabilities at some point
like "click and go" to go to a particular spot.

now That WOULD be useful .. one thing I continually get asked for is 'how can
I continue this cut from where the plasma went off' .. like it did the other
day as a customers compressor was not up to the job ,, you're stuffed at the
moment. no way to do a run from here as that system seems pretty much Mill
specific and the 'start spindle' functionality is not ideal. What really
needs to be doen is either some 'click on the toolpath' and then hit go, and
Mach2 figures out whether the plasma should be on or off at that point.
better yet would be a back-up, to reverse along the toolpath, but thats not
so easy I suspect.


A *VERY* useful feature in a sheet of nested parts (and htis would apply to
routers as well as plasma) would be to be able to click on a part on the
table and have mach 2 run the code from the start of that part. perhaps
specifying somewhere a regex that matches the comment line that appears at
the beginning of each part block.

Waht some BIG machines do is use a subroutine for each part, the main program
jsut calling subs, thats a lot easier to sort out then.

--
RapidCut CNC Technology

CNC Plasma Cutter

On Saturday 06 March 2004 10:25, Digital audio Pro wrote:

I'm right with you Steve. The toolpath display don't need a high priority
on "the list". Just a bug correction for the moment. According to me there
are others things to do before, like:

3D mapping,

this IMHO is a CAM feature not a controller feature

conversational screens,

yep, they are going to be handy

gecko mode,

not sure what you mean ... it works with geckos just fine

turn roughing - finishing cycles,

? almost certainly CAM features. writing machining strategies into your
controller is a very Bad Plan (tm) usually, as one persons idea of the
correct strategy is rarely what someone else wants.

encoder feedback on gecko

umm tricky. and probably pointless. If you have missed a step then htere
are two reasons:

mechanical (too much torque required) .. well there is nothing you can do,
the motor failed to move because forces where too high, then throwing more
pulses at it is not going to help is it?

electrical (noise, bad signal) ... well if the motor failed to step because
the signal was messed up, how do you know it wasn't the *encoder* signal that
was messed up? .. sort the wiring out and hte problem goes away.

mode, advanced digitizing...

advanced? in what way? ...

Olivier.







Yahoo! Groups Links

--
RapidCut CNC Technology

CNC Plasma Cutter

On Saturday 06 March 2004 10:13, Jeremy Taylor wrote:

Which versions of your software, have the capacity to figuring tooling
offset, or... bit diameter?
I already have Mach2, but I've been using Vector Engineering's .free quick
tools, and I have to "hand" offset my drawings by 3mm (diameter of bit) to
keep them true.

no you don;t :)

you can just put a 3.0mm dia tool in the tool table, select that tool and
then put G41 or whatever in your GCODE file and it will offset and apply
cutter radius compensation on the fly.

I'm looking for something that can automatically do this
for as little $$ as possible.

For automtaically doing it, Dolphin CAM is probably the most cost effective
option. For 3 axis stuff it simple to use compared to some of the more
bells&whistles packages likr VisualMill, but .. its all there. Hunt around
for the Mach2 special offer on Dolphin which brings it down to a very good
price.

Jeremy Taylor

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Milligan" <zen11777@...>
To: <mach1mach2cnc@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 2:30 AM
Subject: RE: [mach1mach2cnc] (First drawing software (was cnc plasma)

Scout

You can download Dolphin CAD for
Free, at the moment this is available from our
Website, www.dolphin.gb.com <> .

This will provide you with a 1st rate drawing
module which supports DXF export.

Regards

Michael
Dolphin Cad Cam Systems Ltd

-----Original Message-----
From: Hugh Smith [mailto:smithh@...]
Sent: 06 March 2004 01:48
To: mach1mach2cnc@...
Subject: Re: [mach1mach2cnc] (First drawing software (was cnc plasma)

Scout,

I just purchased QuickCad 8 from
for USD48.00 + the normal
S&H&T. I use AutoCAD a lot and for 2D work QuickCad is easier.
QuickCad does not do 3D and exports a dxf if wanted. Its been able to
do everything I've asked of it, and for $48.00 whats to lose.

Hugh
----- Original Message -----
From: dk32544
To: mach1mach2cnc@...
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 2:24 PM
Subject: [mach1mach2cnc] (First drawing software (was cnc plasma)


Well, thanks for all the great info. Looks like what I need to do is
just
get some drawing software and start practicing. Which leads me to my
next question.

For the near term future I'll be doing simple shapes - brackets and
such. I guess most 2D shapes are simple, but I won't be doing much
metal art until probably next year. So what software should I buy to
start out with: Corel Draw, Quickdraw, or something else? I have
heard of some problems with Corel Draw for this type of work, but
don't
remember what the issue was. P.S. I already have the ruler but I'm not

sure if it's Windows XP compatible. lol.

Scout



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RapidCut CNC Technology

CNC Plasma Cutter

I'm right with you Steve. The toolpath display don't need a high priority on
"the list". Just a bug correction for the moment. According to me there are
others things to do before, like 3D mapping, conversational screens, gecko
mode, turn roughing - finishing cycles, encoder feedback on gecko mode,
advanced digitizing...


Olivier.

Which versions of your software, have the capacity to figuring tooling
offset, or... bit diameter?
I already have Mach2, but I've been using Vector Engineering's .free quick
tools, and I have to "hand" offset my drawings by 3mm (diameter of bit) to
keep them true. I'm looking for something that can automatically do this
for as little $$ as possible.

Jeremy Taylor

On Friday 05 March 2004 22:24, dk32544 wrote:

Well, thanks for all the great info. Looks like what I need to do is just
get some drawing software and start practicing. Which leads me to my
next question.

For the near term future I'll be doing simple shapes - brackets and
such. I guess most 2D shapes are simple, but I won't be doing much
metal art until probably next year. So what software should I buy to
start out with: Corel Draw, Quickdraw, or something else?

Save your dollars. Why not download Dolphin ()
and use their CAD package, as its free. They have a CAM module as an add-on
that you pay for when you are ready. There is a special price for Dolphin
when used with Mach2 to keep it in the right ball-park and its a pretty good
deal for 3 axis machining.

I have some 'issues' with the CAM module for plasma though, so I'm waiting to
see if the next release with its scripting and customisation features
addresses those.

Whatever, the CAD software makes a pretty good drawing package and the DXF
exports are fine, you can use the DXF import facility of Mach2 to generate
toopaths striaght from the DXF exports of Dolphin, OK, so you dont get kerf
compensation or choice of lead-in, but if you are just hacking out brackets
to be welded up into parts, it may well be all you need.

--
RapidCut CNC Technology

CNC Plasma Cutter

Steve,

Pardon me for jumping into this discussion between you and Art. I
don't know anything about Art's code but my experience with large
mills is that about 10 PPR for a spindle speed sensor will give the
controller a much better idea of what the machine is doing.

As I understand his algorithm he is not trying to control spindle
speed but rather to measure it and it's absolute position so as to
make the carriage motion correct for the thread in question. A 10 PPR
spindle pulse with an index pulse for each revolution would seem to be
ideal for this operation.

The software can then make a very accurate determination of actual
spindle speed and the index pulse will tell where it is relative to
the cartridge. The best of both worlds.

If you look at this from 20,000 feet (or meters for Art) it's a
classic type 1 open loop servo. Feedback from the spindle sensor
controlling the carriage motion to produce a desired result but no way
of knowing if it did.

I these cases the best one can do is get the most accurate feedback
from the rotation sensor and hope the other axis did what is was told
to do. This is a very reasonable assumption with modern stepper or
servo controls.

Regards;

Ken

--- In mach1mach2cnc@..., Art <fenerty@a...> wrote:

Hi All:

1) How intelligent should the toolpath be. What I intend at this

point is

Anyway, I will be around tommorrow, then I'm burnt...I mean gone...

Thanks,
Art
www.artofcnc.ca

Hello Art, get brown a little, get drunk a little and get rid off
flu and have a splended break in the sun.

For intelligent toolpath how about seeing the millpad from the tool
along the toolpad and let the pad by visual all the time.
Thanks and regards
Cees

--- In mach1mach2cnc@..., Art <fenerty@a...> wrote:

Hi Bengt:

I recommend at least a 500Mhz, but 750 is preferred. 128Meg

minimum and XP

or Win2000

Thanks,
Art
www.artofcnc.ca

Hi Art,
Looking at future, is there any *real* issues using a 2G Celeron CPU,
256Mb and std graphics. Will it be *outdated* in near future as
regards speed?

I hope you will get a good relax in CanCun, *salt* *te***a* *lemon* :)

Regards from a cold Stockholm
Bengt

Scout

You can download Dolphin CAD for
Free, at the moment this is available from our
Website, www.dolphin.gb.com <> .

This will provide you with a 1st rate drawing
module which supports DXF export.

Regards

Michael
Dolphin Cad Cam Systems Ltd

I am fairly happy with the performance of the motors I have the only
major change I want to make is to my Z axis which tends to miss steps
due to the poor performance of the quasi linear bearing system
employed by Shopbot on this particualar machine. I already have a set
of bearing rods & a frame to replace the current axis (screen door
roller, pipe, & unistrut). I will be using the ballscrew & related
componenst of the stock Z. I have put a lot of miles on the motors
that came with the machine, and for what Im' doing I have no
complaints. So I guess the main thing is to figure out what point in
the controller box gets the step & direction and elimanate the...Uh I
donno I guess you would call it the interpereter?




Gavin

Chis and Mike,

The problem is that the Mastercam post that I uploaded was actually written back in the V5 era. The MPFAN.PST will output the clearance plane but there will be some recoding required in order to use it.

Servo

Mike Hammel <mycamel@...> wrote:
I have the exact same problem. I end up importing into mach 2 and editing to add a g0 z move at the start of the code. I hate having to rework code that is otherwise perfect.


Mike Hammel
www.fancyfoam.com
1704 Bullard
Arkansas City, KS
67005

I have the exact same problem. I end up importing into mach 2 and editing to add a g0 z move at the start of the code. I hate having to rework code that is otherwise perfect.


Mike Hammel
www.fancyfoam.com
1704 Bullard
Arkansas City, KS
67005