Re: The choice of "Outlook (classic)" and "Outlook (new)" should both be available under M365 Family (and probably Personal) at this time
Brian, With all due respect, the new Outlook is a half baked product. Neither Microsoft nor FS have said it has accessibility or feature parity with the classic Outlook.? I will be avoiding it until it does. There are multiple years until it becomes the go to Outlook, at least 2029 for M365.? Until then, closer to 2029 it should be more polished. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2025 3:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] The choice of "Outlook (classic)" and "Outlook (new)" should both be available under M365 Family (and probably Personal) at this time? On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 04:20 PM, Leo Bado wrote: My point.? Without a comprehensive coverage of New Outlook possibilities for screen reader users, it is absolutely irresponsible to advice in favor of is usage ?for daily activities.
Leo, just stop.? You seem to thing that anyone, blind or sighted, is presented with comprehensive tutorials of any given thing before they're forced to use them.? Well, that's never been so, ever. In the case of New Outlook, no one is forcing anyone to use it.? Those of us who have long history with these rollouts are strongly encouraging those who feel the desire to play with New Outlook, alongside Outlook Classic, during the 4 years both will be available. There has already been at least one member, I seem to recall several, who have already transitioned to New Outlook entirely of their own choosing.? Just because you intensely dislike it does not make your opinion the only one that matters. You are the one being irresponsible, so stop.? And this is coming directly from a group moderator speaking in that role, not me speaking as a member. Brian? · ♂? · ???? · ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) . . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to have a gym. ????? ~ Bret Stephens, in New York Times Op-Ed, , June 18, 2019
|
I don’t have this problem myself. In the case where you’re using alt+q and ending up in the ribbon, it sounds like the system is thinking your hitting the alt key and
then hitting the q key. You might try making sure you’re holding both keys down at the same time to see if that helps.
?
--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Ardell, Kristi SDPR:EX via groups.io
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2025 10:24 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [M365-Accessibility] searching in outlook
?
On the topic: has anybody else found searching in Outlook inconsistent? No matter if I use control plus e or
alt+q, sometimes it decides to create a new message and sometimes my focus lands somewhere in the ribbons. I’d say less than half the time my curser does land in a search field. In my work I need to do
these searches a lot and it feels like at one time it was a lot easier and more consistent than it has been for the last couple of years. If anybody has advise or tips to improve this process for me, I’d deeply appreciate it!
Thanks
?
|
Re: Full updated tutorial for the New Outlook in Microsoft 365
I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone advocate for the new Outlook or claim that it’s as screen reader friendly as the Classic Outlook. For me, I just recently pointed out that the Classic Outlook
also has a steep learning curve, or at least it did for me. In the past, I’ve talked about giving the new Outlook a spin and pointing out some of the things I like about it. I’ve probably also mentioned that you can do quite a bit in it, although there is
a learning curve and not everything is as easy as it is in Classic Outlook.
?
I don’t know of a screen reader based tutorial for the new Outlook and I’m not going to write one myself. Although I’m sure they’re out there, I also don’t know of a screen reader based
tutorial for Classic Outlook. For my part, I have four years to play around with the new Outlook myself and wait for webinars from Freedom Scientific, so I’m not worried at all for the moment.
?
--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA
?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Leo Bado via groups.io
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2025 7:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [M365-Accessibility] Full updated tutorial for the New Outlook in Microsoft 365
?
Hello. I have seen how people like myself expressing poor opinions about the New Outlook have been moderated in this mailing list. However, this is not the subject of this message although it is absolutely
related. If moderators want to cast out all disparaging remarks about a service, product or app, then by antonomasia they become an either explicit or implicit advocator of such application. If I follow this logic under the assumption that someone is acting
in good faith, as I also believe I’m doing myself, then advocators of the New Outlook should provide irrefutable proofs that this interface is as screen reader friendly as it is the Classic Outlook in M365 environment. They should do this by covering an extensive
range of functionalities present for years in Outlook Classic in which the most extended and used screen readers (NVDA and Jaws)? have no trouble at all when interacting directly with the interface. Additionally, advocators should take into consideration that
not only positive outcomes are important, meaning completion of a task, but also the strategic possibility that an interface provides for the user, meaning “how to do stuff” is directly related to cognitive differences among users. Let me portray this last
statement. If we have here a mailing list? in which people is getting acquainted with the command alt plus q, and how to create a folder in Outlook, and how to filter messages, and how to rearrange accounts: well, it is only logical that advocators must give
also the step by step guide to do the same in the New Outlook, which brings me to my real question because I’m also operating under the assumption that advocators are advanced users and I’m just an ignorant on this new interface. ?
?
Could you, please, share a full tutorial about all the functionalities in this new outlook interface as if I were a 7 year old kid?
?
Salute!
?
Cheers,
Leo Bado.
?
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
Pravin Lal.
?
|
Re: Full updated tutorial for the New Outlook in Microsoft 365
Quoting: In the 60s, they just shoved the blind or deaf into a private school, or basically kept them out of public schools with the idea that they didn’t belong there. End quote: Of course, they did; I being one of those, believe it was/is the right thing to do. There is no one in public school and I do mean no one, sighted or otherwise, who could/can teach me what those people taught me in blind school (braille jail). I trusted those people explicitly because they were just as blind as I am and so I trusted and respected them completely. I do not have that trust today with the public school racket. I would never send my blind child to a public school what so ever. ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David Diamond
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2025 9:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] Full updated tutorial for the New Outlook in Microsoft 365? If moderators want to cast out all disparaging remarks about a service, product or app, then by antonomasia they become an either explicit or implicit advocator of such application. Hey Leo, quit throwing out those big words. ?LOL.? I found out when I got to grade 8 in school, that I wasn’t really passing to the next grade, just being pushed to the next one because they didn’t want to deal with a blind person.? In the 60s, they just shoved the blind or deaf into a private school, or basically kept them out of public schools with the idea that they didn’t belong there. The spell checker/grammar checker is my best friend.? ?? ? ? ? On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 08:37 AM, Leo Bado wrote: If moderators want to cast out all disparaging remarks about a service, product or app, then by antonomasia they become an either explicit or implicit advocator of such application.
1. That's a logical fallacy because no one has even tried to "cast out all disparaging remarks." 2. Not wanting any group to become the "let's pile on complaining about Application X" group is entirely reasonable.?? 3. If you, or any other member, has an issue with moderation policy on any given group, then the appropriate avenue for pursuing that is with the Owner via that group's owner address.? Questioning moderation policy in public is really poor form.? Be prepared to have a rationale for your own position if you do choose to challenge existing policy. Anyone who wants to ask "how to" questions about New Outlook should feel entirely free to do so and venting of frustrations during a learning curve are perfectly fine.? Rants about New Outlook being utterly inaccessible will be summarily shut down, because they are false and not helpful. The tutorial you want does not exist, since New Outlook is currently only in the 2nd stage, Opt Out, of its release.? I don't think anyone's written a comprehensive tutorial on using New Outlook with a screen reader.? What I know I have learned via trial and error, which is entirely usual when brand new user interfaces hit the street. For the time being, if you or anyone else has a specific question about how to do something in New Outlook, ask it. Brian? · ♂? · ???? · ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) . . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to have a gym. ????? ~ Bret Stephens, in New York Times Op-Ed, , June 18, 2019
|
Re: The choice of "Outlook (classic)" and "Outlook (new)" should both be available under M365 Family (and probably Personal) at this time
On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 04:20 PM, Leo Bado wrote:
My point.? Without a comprehensive coverage of New Outlook possibilities for screen reader users, it is absolutely irresponsible to advice in favor of is usage ?for daily activities.
-
Leo, just stop.? You seem to think that anyone, blind or sighted, is presented with comprehensive tutorials of any given thing before they're forced to use them.? Well, that's never been so, ever.
?
In the case of New Outlook, no one is forcing anyone to use it.? Those of us who have long history with these rollouts are strongly encouraging those who feel the desire to play with New Outlook, alongside Outlook Classic, during the 4 years both will be available.
?
There has already been at least one member, I seem to recall several, who have already transitioned to New Outlook entirely of their own choosing.? Just because you intensely dislike it does not make your opinion the only one that matters.
?
You are the one being irresponsible, so stop.? And this is coming directly from a group moderator speaking in that role, not me speaking as a member.
--
Brian? · ♂? · ???? · ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
. . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to have a gym.
????? ~ Bret Stephens, in New York Times Op-Ed, , June 18, 2019
|
Re: Full updated tutorial for the New Outlook in Microsoft 365
Quote 2. Not wanting any group to become the "let's pile on complaining about Application X" group is entirely reasonable.??
Unquote ? Yes it is reasonable, but I’m not piling up useless complaints, but the serious limitations in terms of accessibility and usability of the new interface at least for productive usage. It is one thing to say, “I don’t like it,” as I say it over and over as to use NVDA, and a very different ?thing is to highlight the pitfalls and flaws of the product in terms of screen reader’s interactivity. Subjective gibberish versus factual, objective first-hand ?experience. ? As for communicating directly to moderators, it was never my intention to do it since I want people to request, even more, demand, a full tutorial coverage? on the New Outlook to those who promote its use or at least express in favor of switching, and I also want people reading this lines to open an important discussion that concerns every member, not just moderators. Consensus is reached through open discussion, policies and rules should just reflect such consensus, otherwise tyrannical stances will be waiting around the corner. ? Cheers, Leo Bado. ? "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." Pravin Lal. ? ? On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 08:37 AM, Leo Bado wrote: If moderators want to cast out all disparaging remarks about a service, product or app, then by antonomasia they become an either explicit or implicit advocator of such application.
1. That's a logical fallacy because no one has even tried to "cast out all disparaging remarks." 2. Not wanting any group to become the "let's pile on complaining about Application X" group is entirely reasonable.?? 3. If you, or any other member, has an issue with moderation policy on any given group, then the appropriate avenue for pursuing that is with the Owner via that group's owner address.? Questioning moderation policy in public is really poor form.? Be prepared to have a rationale for your own position if you do choose to challenge existing policy. Anyone who wants to ask "how to" questions about New Outlook should feel entirely free to do so and venting of frustrations during a learning curve are perfectly fine.? Rants about New Outlook being utterly inaccessible will be summarily shut down, because they are false and not helpful. The tutorial you want does not exist, since New Outlook is currently only in the 2nd stage, Opt Out, of its release.? I don't think anyone's written a comprehensive tutorial on using New Outlook with a screen reader.? What I know I have learned via trial and error, which is entirely usual when brand new user interfaces hit the street. For the time being, if you or anyone else has a specific question about how to do something in New Outlook, ask it. Brian? · ♂? · ???? · ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) . . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to have a gym. ????? ~ Bret Stephens, in New York Times Op-Ed, , June 18, 2019
|
Re: The choice of "Outlook (classic)" and "Outlook (new)" should both be available under M365 Family (and probably Personal) at this time
My point.? Without a comprehensive coverage of New Outlook possibilities for screen reader users, it is absolutely irresponsible to advice in favor of is usage ?for daily activities. ? Cheers, Leo Bado. ? "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." Pravin Lal. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of David Diamond via groups.io
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2025 1:50 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] The choice of "Outlook (classic)" and "Outlook (new)" should both be available under M365 Family (and probably Personal) at this time? I hope some time there is a tutorial.? Why?? Because I enabled? outlook N, and it only showed me one of my email addresses, not this one.? So how would one switch email addresses?? This one is the default email, so I muse why the N outlook went to another email address.? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io
Sent: January 10, 2025 10:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [M365-Accessibility] The choice of "Outlook (classic)" and "Outlook (new)" should both be available under M365 Family (and probably Personal) at this time ? Just as there's been lots of discussion of New Outlook here, there's lots of discussion regarding it elsewhere, too, particularly on one forum I'm on for IT technicians. For the longest time, I could only have Outlook open either using the New Outlook UI or the classic, using the toggle to go back and forth between the two.? It appears that now both "skins" of Outlook are available directly, and you can find them via Windows search, using the correct "(X"? right after Outlook were that X will be either c for classic or n for new. You are also able to run both side by side, simultaneously, which will be a big plus during the learning period.? I had not been able to have side-by-side instances of both New Outlook and Outlook Classic running and today was the first time that worked for me.? It's come about sometime over the last month or so. Brian? · ♂? · ???? · ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) . . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to have a gym. ????? ~ Bret Stephens, in New York Times Op-Ed, , June 18, 2019
|
Re: The choice of "Outlook (classic)" and "Outlook (new)" should both be available under M365 Family (and probably Personal) at this time
Then make certain to enter "Outlook (new)" in its entirety as the search (sans quotes, of course).
?
It sounds like you opened Outlook for Windows, which is the replacement for the Windows 10/11 Mail, Calendar, and People apps and with a UI that's virtually indistinguishable from New Outlook.? However, the accounts set up in New Outlook and Outlook Classic should be one and the same, while what's set up in Outlook for Windows may or may not be, as it is its own world.
--
Brian? · ♂? · ???? · ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
. . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to have a gym.
????? ~ Bret Stephens, in New York Times Op-Ed, , June 18, 2019
|
Re: The choice of "Outlook (classic)" and "Outlook (new)" should both be available under M365 Family (and probably Personal) at this time
I hope some time there is a tutorial.? Why?? Because I enabled? outlook N, and it only showed me one of my email addresses, not this one.? So how would one switch email addresses??
This one is the default email, so I muse why the N outlook went to another email address.?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io
Sent: January 10, 2025 10:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [M365-Accessibility] The choice of "Outlook (classic)" and "Outlook (new)" should both be available under M365 Family (and probably Personal) at this time
?
Just as there's been lots of discussion of New Outlook here, there's lots of discussion regarding it elsewhere, too, particularly on one forum I'm on for IT technicians.
For the longest time, I could only have Outlook open either using the New Outlook UI or the classic, using the toggle to go back and forth between the two.? It appears that now both "skins" of Outlook are available directly, and you can
find them via Windows search, using the correct "(X"? right after Outlook were that X will be either c for classic or n for new.
You are also able to run both side by side, simultaneously, which will be a big plus during the learning period.? I had not been able to have side-by-side instances of both New Outlook and Outlook Classic running and today was the first
time that worked for me.? It's come about sometime over the last month or so.
Brian?
·
♂?
·
????
·
?Virginia, USA?-
Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family;
Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
. . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to
have a gym.
????? ~ Bret Stephens, in
New York Times Op-Ed,
,
June 18, 2019
|
what I used to do is just stay in the inbox and hit control plus
E. then my curser would always land in the search field.
I have no idea if this willhelp but those are my observations.
Thanks and happy Friday.
Sarah Alawami | Salesforce Administrator | Accessibility
Consultant | Educator
Follow me on
On 1/10/2025 8:23 AM, Ardell, Kristi
SDPR:EX via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On the
topic: has anybody else found searching in Outlook
inconsistent? No matter if I use control plus e or
alt+q,
sometimes it decides to create a new message and sometimes
my focus lands somewhere in the ribbons. I’d say less than
half the time my curser does land in a search field. In my
work I need to do these searches a lot and it feels like at
one time it was a lot easier and more consistent than it has
been for the last couple of years. If anybody has advise or
tips to improve this process for me, I’d deeply appreciate
it!
Thanks
?
-- ---------- Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.???to read my story.?
Microsoft Windows Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621) workstation AMD64 [64 bit]
NVDA 2023.3 [32 bit]
Microsoft Office?16.0.17029.20028 [64 bit]
|
The choice of "Outlook (classic)" and "Outlook (new)" should both be available under M365 Family (and probably Personal) at this time
Just as there's been lots of discussion of New Outlook here, there's lots of discussion regarding it elsewhere, too, particularly on one forum I'm on for IT technicians.
?
For the longest time, I could only have Outlook open either using the New Outlook UI or the classic, using the toggle to go back and forth between the two.? It appears that now both "skins" of Outlook are available directly, and you can find them via Windows search, using the correct "(X"? right after Outlook where that X will be either c for classic or n for new.
?
You are also able to run both side by side, simultaneously, which will be a big plus during the learning period.? I had not been able to have side-by-side instances of both New Outlook and Outlook Classic running and today was the first time that worked for me.? It's come about sometime over the last month or so.
--
Brian? · ♂? · ???? · ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
. . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to have a gym.
????? ~ Bret Stephens, in New York Times Op-Ed, , June 18, 2019
|
On the topic: has anybody else found searching in Outlook inconsistent? No matter if I use control plus e or
alt+q, sometimes it decides to create a new message and sometimes my focus lands somewhere in the ribbons. I’d say less than half the time my curser does land in a search field. In my work I need to do
these searches a lot and it feels like at one time it was a lot easier and more consistent than it has been for the last couple of years. If anybody has advise or tips to improve this process for me, I’d deeply appreciate it!
Thanks
?
|
Re: microsoft trying to push out the New Outlook to replace the classic in M365
Ah Ok so my memmory is still correct. that's good to know.
Thanks and happy Friday.
Sarah Alawami | Salesforce Administrator | Accessibility
Consultant | Educator
Follow me on
On 1/10/2025 7:31 AM, Brian Vogel via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 10:22 AM, Chris Smart wrote:
CTRL+Q searches for features and commands.
-
Not in Outlook, or at least not exclusively in Outlook like
it does in the other Office programs.
?
If I use Alt + Q in Outlook Classic and start typing the list
below the box displays "Suggested Searches" first, which are
focused on mail content, and then there's a second section for
Recent Actions and a third for Suggested Actions.? It can be
used for searching in the broadest sense.? Ctrl + E brings up
precisely the same thing.
?
Microsoft? Outlook?
for Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2412 Build 16.0.18324.20092)
64-bit
--
Brian?
·
♂?
·
????
·
?Virginia,
USA?-
Windows
11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android
13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
.
. . too many colleges are beginning to look like country
clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational
institutions that happen to have a gym.
????? ~ Bret Stephens,
in New York Times Op-Ed, ,
June
18, 2019
-- ---------- Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.???to read my story.?
Microsoft Windows Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621) workstation AMD64 [64 bit]
NVDA 2023.3 [32 bit]
Microsoft Office?16.0.17029.20028 [64 bit]
|
Re: Full updated tutorial for the New Outlook in Microsoft 365
If moderators want to cast out all disparaging remarks about a service, product or app, then by antonomasia they become an either explicit or implicit advocator of such application. Hey Leo, quit throwing out those big words. ?LOL.? I found
out when I got to grade 8 in school, that I wasn’t really passing to the next grade, just being pushed to the next one because they didn’t want to deal with a blind person.? In the 60s, they just shoved the blind or deaf into a private school, or basically
kept them out of public schools with the idea that they didn’t belong there. The spell checker/grammar checker is my best friend.? ??
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io
Sent: January 10, 2025 7:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] Full updated tutorial for the New Outlook in Microsoft 365
?
On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 08:37 AM, Leo Bado wrote:
If moderators want to cast out all disparaging remarks about a service, product or app, then by antonomasia they become an either explicit or implicit advocator of such application.
1. That's a logical fallacy because no one has even tried to "cast out all disparaging remarks."
2. Not wanting any group to become the "let's pile on complaining about Application X" group is entirely reasonable.??
3. If you, or any other member, has an issue with moderation policy on any given group, then the appropriate avenue for pursuing that is with the Owner via that group's owner address.? Questioning moderation policy in public is really poor
form.? Be prepared to have a rationale for your own position if you do choose to challenge existing policy.
Anyone who wants to ask "how to" questions about New Outlook should feel entirely free to do so and venting of frustrations during a learning curve are perfectly fine.? Rants about New Outlook being utterly inaccessible will be summarily
shut down, because they are false and not helpful.
The tutorial you want does not exist, since New Outlook is currently only in the 2nd stage, Opt Out, of its release.? I don't think anyone's written a comprehensive tutorial on using New Outlook with a screen reader.? What I know I have
learned via trial and error, which is entirely usual when brand new user interfaces hit the street.
For the time being, if you or anyone else has a specific question about how to do something in New Outlook, ask it.
Brian?
·
♂?
·
????
·
?Virginia, USA?-
Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family;
Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
. . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to
have a gym.
????? ~ Bret Stephens, in
New York Times Op-Ed,
,
June 18, 2019
|
Re: microsoft trying to push out the New Outlook to replace the classic in M365
On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 10:22 AM, Chris Smart wrote:
CTRL+Q searches for features and commands.
-
Not in Outlook, or at least not exclusively in Outlook like it does in the other Office programs.
?
If I use Alt + Q in Outlook Classic and start typing the list below the box displays "Suggested Searches" first, which are focused on mail content, and then there's a second section for Recent Actions and a third for Suggested Actions.? It can be used for searching in the broadest sense.? Ctrl + E brings up precisely the same thing.
?
Microsoft? Outlook? for Microsoft 365 MSO (Version 2412 Build 16.0.18324.20092) 64-bit
--
Brian? · ♂? · ???? · ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
. . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to have a gym.
????? ~ Bret Stephens, in New York Times Op-Ed, , June 18, 2019
|
Re: microsoft trying to push out the New Outlook to replace the classic in M365
CTRL+Q searches for features and commands. CTRL+E is for searching a mailbox for text. I hope that clears this up. Thanks Sarah. LOL ? ? ? ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of janet gross via groups.io
Sent: January 9, 2025 11:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] microsoft trying to push out the New Outlook to replace the classic in M365? Hello Richard and All, ? Thank you for this as I didn’t know this. I always use control plus e to search for messages in my box. This method is good to know. ? Kindly, ? Janet. ? ? ? IN my MS365 Outlook, alt+q defaults to searching your messages. You can tab to the advanced search which offers searching all mailboxes, all outlook items, and subfolders. I don’t use it much. ? ? ? Richard, “Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.” – Jane Wagner, from The Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe. ? My web site: ? ? ? ? Hi Chris, ? Can you please tell me what this ALT plus q searches for in MS 365? Are all of you talking about MS 365, or some other Outlook program. ? Thank you in advance. ? Kindly, ? Janet. ? ? ? The most useful keystroke in the Office applications for me at least is ALT+Q for Search. ? ? ? ? ? I think everything said here would apply to the Classic Outlook? for anyone using it the first time. I know when I started using it the first time, it was pretty overwhelming and there were some basic things that took me quite a while to figure out. I’m still stumbling over new and useful features, even after using Outlook for around 10 years. ? ? -- Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷ Chaltain at Outlook, USA ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of ?a?a???t?? ??t???p????? via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2025 1:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] microsoft trying to push out the New Outlook to replace the classic in M365 ? Hello Brian/all, Although I have not used new outlook as it looks to me tedious and incomprehensible for a quick use of it, I am not one of those who will just keep being vociferous against it. However, I feel that there is a need for a scratch explanation and instructions for its use, in my case, related to jaws. Also, I am not aware of scripts facilitating such a use. Maybe, someone like David Kingsbury will reflect on this, but the thing is that I want to be able to see and act with my mail and folders quickly, not have to go forward and backward trying to understand what is going on. I am willing to learn, but want my comfort as well. For instance, I have two accounts and if I am thrown to the new outlook I do not seem to be able to detect them, just as an example. Not meant as criticism. ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Cheers, ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Takis ? ? On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 07:17 PM, Jason White wrote: Meanwhile, any accessibility-related bugs in the New Outlook or in screen reader support (e.g., scripts) should be identified and reported, so they can be resolved before organizational users start encountering it as the default in 2026.
Indeed.? And the idea that bugs need to be reported, generally, applies.? Only when developers are made aware of issues, and their prevalence and impact in the user community, is there any hope of a fix and of accurate prioritization of making fixes. One of the reasons I don't understand the constant advice to avoid New Outlook is the fact that you (any you) will eventually have to use it.? Right now you have the option of toggling back and forth, and that's incredibly handy for learning about what's coming without the trauma of a flash cut.? But that also means you can't toggle for 5 minutes and make a definitive declaration about anything new. New Outlook was, without question, an accessibility nightmare in the preview stage.? That is simply no longer the case, and those who purport that it's inaccessible clearly have not worked with it, at all, recently, and I see that claim continuing to be made (though it was not here). Brian? · ♂? · ???? · ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0) . . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to have a gym. ????? ~ Bret Stephens, in New York Times Op-Ed, , June 18, 2019
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Re: Full updated tutorial for the New Outlook in Microsoft 365
On Fri, Jan 10, 2025 at 08:37 AM, Leo Bado wrote:
If moderators want to cast out all disparaging remarks about a service, product or app, then by antonomasia they become an either explicit or implicit advocator of such application.
-
1. That's a logical fallacy because no one has even tried to "cast out all disparaging remarks."
2. Not wanting any group to become the "let's pile on complaining about Application X" group is entirely reasonable.??
3. If you, or any other member, has an issue with moderation policy on any given group, then the appropriate avenue for pursuing that is with the Owner via that group's owner address.? Questioning moderation policy in public is really poor form.? Be prepared to have a rationale for your own position if you do choose to challenge existing policy.
?
Anyone who wants to ask "how to" questions about New Outlook should feel entirely free to do so and venting of frustrations during a learning curve are perfectly fine.? Rants about New Outlook being utterly inaccessible will be summarily shut down, because they are false and not helpful.
?
The tutorial you want does not exist, since New Outlook is currently only in the 2nd stage, Opt Out, of its release.? I don't think anyone's written a comprehensive tutorial on using New Outlook with a screen reader.? What I know I have learned via trial and error, which is entirely usual when brand new user interfaces hit the street.
?
For the time being, if you or anyone else has a specific question about how to do something in New Outlook, ask it.
--
Brian? · ♂? · ???? · ?Virginia, USA?- Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
. . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to have a gym.
????? ~ Bret Stephens, in New York Times Op-Ed, , June 18, 2019
|
Re: microsoft trying to push out the New Outlook to replace the classic in M365
Alt + Q provides a method to search for actions, words, and other
functions. I now utilize this instead of navigating through menus,
as it is considerably faster for me. In Outlook, if I recall
correctly, the shortcut is Ctrl + E, not Alt + Q. It has been
almost a year since I last used Outlook, so my memory might be
somewhat unclear.
Thanks and happy Friday.
Sarah Alawami | Salesforce Administrator | Accessibility
Consultant | Educator
Follow me on
On 1/9/2025 6:50 PM, janet gross via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Hi Chris,
?
Can you
please tell me what this ALT plus q searches for in MS 365?
Are all of
you talking about MS 365, or some other Outlook program.
?
Thank you in
advance.
?
Kindly,
?
Janet.
?
?
?
The
most useful keystroke in the Office applications for me at
least is ALT+Q for Search.
?
?
?
?
?
I
think everything said here would apply to the Classic
Outlook? for anyone using it the first time. I know when I
started using it the first time, it was pretty overwhelming
and there were some basic things that took me quite a while
to figure out. I’m still stumbling over new and useful
features, even after using Outlook for around 10 years.
?
?
--
Christopher
(AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain
at Outlook, USA
?
From:
[email protected]
<[email protected]>
On Behalf Of ?a?a???t?? ??t???p????? via
groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2025 1:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] microsoft
trying to push out the New Outlook to replace the
classic in M365
?
Hello
Brian/all,
Although
I have not used new outlook as it looks to me tedious and
incomprehensible for a quick use of it, I am not one of
those who will just keep being vociferous against it.
However, I feel that there is a need for a scratch
explanation and instructions for its use, in my case,
related to jaws. Also, I am not aware of scripts
facilitating such a use. Maybe, someone like David Kingsbury
will reflect on this, but the thing is that I want to be
able to see and act with my mail and folders quickly, not
have to go forward and backward trying to understand what is
going on. I am willing to learn, but want my comfort as
well. For instance, I have two accounts and if I am thrown
to the new outlook I do not seem to be able to detect them,
just as an example. Not meant as criticism.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Cheers,
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Takis
?
?
On Wed, Jan 8, 2025 at 07:17 PM, Jason
White wrote:
Meanwhile, any accessibility-related
bugs in the New Outlook or in screen reader support (e.g.,
scripts) should be identified and reported, so they can be
resolved before organizational users start encountering it
as the default in 2026.
Indeed.? And the idea that bugs need to
be reported, generally, applies.? Only when developers are
made aware of issues, and their prevalence and impact in the
user community, is there any hope of a fix and of accurate
prioritization of making fixes.
One of the reasons I don't understand the
constant advice to avoid New Outlook is the fact that you
(any you) will eventually have to use it.? Right now you
have the option of toggling back and forth, and that's
incredibly handy for learning about what's coming without
the trauma of a flash cut.? But that also means you can't
toggle for 5 minutes and make a definitive declaration about
anything new.
New Outlook was, without question, an
accessibility nightmare in the preview stage.? That is
simply no longer the case, and those who purport that it's
inaccessible clearly have not worked with it, at all,
recently, and I see that claim continuing to be made (though
it was not here).
Brian?
· ♂? ·
????
·
?Virginia,
USA?-
Windows
11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family; Android 13
(Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
.
. . too many colleges are beginning to look like country
clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational
institutions that happen to have a gym.
?????
~ Bret Stephens, in
New
York Times Op-Ed,
,
June
18, 2019
-- ---------- Sarah Alawami, owner of flying Blind.???to read my story.?
Microsoft Windows Windows 11 22H2 (10.0.22621) workstation AMD64 [64 bit]
NVDA 2023.3 [32 bit]
Microsoft Office?16.0.17029.20028 [64 bit]
|
Full updated tutorial for the New Outlook in Microsoft 365
Hello. I have seen how people like myself expressing poor opinions about the New Outlook have been moderated in this mailing list. However, this is not the subject of this message although it is absolutely related. If moderators want to cast out all disparaging remarks about a service, product or app, then by antonomasia they become an either explicit or implicit advocator of such application. If I follow this logic under the assumption that someone is acting in good faith, as I also believe I’m doing myself, then advocators of the New Outlook should provide irrefutable proofs that this interface is as screen reader friendly as it is the Classic Outlook in M365 environment. They should do this by covering an extensive range of functionalities present for years in Outlook Classic in which the most extended and used screen readers (NVDA and Jaws)? have no trouble at all when interacting directly with the interface. Additionally, advocators should take into consideration that not only positive outcomes are important, meaning completion of a task, but also the strategic possibility that an interface provides for the user, meaning “how to do stuff” is directly related to cognitive differences among users. Let me portray this last statement. If we have here a mailing list? in which people is getting acquainted with the command alt plus q, and how to create a folder in Outlook, and how to filter messages, and how to rearrange accounts: well, it is only logical that advocators must give also the step by step guide to do the same in the New Outlook, which brings me to my real question because I’m also operating under the assumption that advocators are advanced users and I’m just an ignorant on this new interface. ? ? Could you, please, share a full tutorial about all the functionalities in this new outlook interface as if I were a 7 year old kid? ? Salute! ? Cheers, Leo Bado. ? "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master." Pravin Lal. ?
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Re: microsoft trying to push out the New Outlook to replace the classic in M365
For me, if I hit alt+q, type in a search string and then start hitting down arrow I see best matches, suggested searches and actions.
?
--
Christopher (AKA CJ) =>÷
Chaltain at Outlook, USA
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Brian Vogel via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2025 10:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [M365-Accessibility] microsoft trying to push out the New Outlook to replace the classic in M365
?
On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 10:54 PM, Richard Turner wrote:
IN my MS365 Outlook, alt+q defaults to searching your messages.
Same here.? In all of the other M365 Office Suite programs, Alt + Q defaults to an "actions" search, that is, searches for functionality.? Not Outlook, though.
Since this topic is on Outlook, if we're looking at mail it should be a messages/mail content search in that context.? In Contacts it searches those and the same for Calendar.
Brian?
·
♂?
·
????
·
?Virginia, USA?-
Windows 11 Pro, Version 24H2, Build 26100; M365 Family;
Android 13 (Xiaomi HyperOS 1.0.10.0)
. . . too many colleges are beginning to look like country clubs that happen to teach stuff, not educational institutions that happen to
have a gym.
????? ~ Bret Stephens, in
New York Times Op-Ed,
,
June 18, 2019
|
Brian Vogel
Sarah k Alawami
Chris Smart