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Mechanical switch

 


Where could I find a model of a real mechanical switch, including sparking during opening?
I'm interested in spark gaps in general, but particularly a switch (voltage controlled ideally) that behaves like a real switch WRT arcing when used with inductive loads.

I am only partially "on" the list here, my access does not include file downloads or web access to the group.

--
K1FZY (WA4TPW) SK? 9/29/37-4/13/15
 

Hello David,

You could make a bouncing switch with a V-source (PWL) as the control voltage for a switch SW.

You can see a "typical" bouncing switch on the top-left picture.
?

Best regards,
Helmut
 

The bounce is less interesting to me than the spark.? Think kettering ignition system.


On Aug 2, 2016 2:30 PM, "helmutsennewald@... [LTspice]" <LTspice@...> wrote:
?

Hello David,


You could make a bouncing switch with a V-source (PWL) as the control voltage for a switch SW.

You can see a "typical" bouncing switch on the top-left picture.
?

Best regards,
Helmut
 

David,

I don't remember now why you didn't have access to this group's webpages.? I think something was preventing you from signing up the "normal" way, so you had to subscribe via email only.

I think you really ought to subscribe the "normal" way, so you can get access to the group's Files.? Over the last 14 years, there have been questions about contact bounce and about modeling arcing (sparks), and files uploaded about them.? I don't remember how completely those questions were answered.? But I think you might benefit from being able to see those files.

Regards,
Andy
 

I tried to sign up normally. Its a catch 22.


On Aug 2, 2016 9:39 PM, "Andy ai.egrps@... [LTspice]" <LTspice@...> wrote:
?

David,

I don't remember now why you didn't have access to this group's webpages.? I think something was preventing you from signing up the "normal" way, so you had to subscribe via email only.

I think you really ought to subscribe the "normal" way, so you can get access to the group's Files.? Over the last 14 years, there have been questions about contact bounce and about modeling arcing (sparks), and files uploaded about them.? I don't remember how completely those questions were answered.? But I think you might benefit from being able to see those files.

Regards,
Andy
 

Hi, :

I guess the question would become ''how to describe the physics behavior about eg. ionization in the air in math equations, and cross voltage before/after acring, and so on..."

I am really interested in those topics, but I can't quite know the terminologies of those topics (about arcing, sparking behavior in physics).
I thinks that's the background knowledge required to built-in the model of spice.

If someone could provide any information about this ?

thank you

Best regards.

---In LTspice@..., <kc6ete@...> wrote :

The bounce is less interesting to me than the spark.? Think kettering ignition system.
 

There is a spark gap model in the group's files, maybe it can be combined with the bounce relay?


Vlad
______________________
-- holding, among others:
a universal analog/digital filter, block-level models
for power electronics (and not only), math blocks
with a more stream-lined approach, some digital
ADC, DAC, (synchronous-)counter, JKflop, etc.
 

Hi.
See file bounce.zip in TEMP folder.

Bordodynov.

03.08.2016, 09:44, "Vlad imbvlad@... [LTspice]" <ltspice@...>:

There is a spark gap model in the group's files, maybe it can be combined with the bounce relay?

Vlad
______________________
ltspicegoodies.ltwiki.org -- holding, among others:
a universal analog/digital filter, block-level models
for power electronics (and not only), math blocks
with a more stream-lined approach, some digital
ADC, DAC, (synchronous-)counter, JKflop, etc.
 

Hi, :

I found a article talking about the breakdown voltage when arcing happens.
At here:
(of course, I am not good at this, it's just discussed. Not sure what's the exact correct answer.)

From the article, it says through the Paschen's law, it could decide the breakdown voltage depends on the distance & gas pressure.It's not linearity.
So under some certain situation (fixed pressure, distance), in the instantaneous time point of the switch on -> off, the contact point where arcing happens should be the most tendency point referring to the "Paschen curve" where pd product is the value at which the breakdown voltage is the lowest.
So the breakdown voltage is able to be estimated, the current flowing through the inductor should be continuous ,supposed it's Ipeak, the instantaneous energy stored in the inductor is 1/2*L*Ipeak^2, and this energy should dissipated through the arcing time, which it's supposed to be V(t)*I(t)*dt (V(0)=breakdown voltage, I(0)=Ipeak, t=0 when arcing happens). Otherwise, maybe there is another path which also consumes the energy.

Just for simple reference.
Appreciate for any opinion to discuss this, so far , I can't find any further article which talking about this on internet.
(But I really like to know more about this.)

Best regards.

?
 

Hi,?Bordodynov:

.lib ..\sym\Source\source.lib

in the file, It can't find this.

Thank you for the file

Best regards.
 

Hi.
In a packed folder contains files:
bounce.asc
source.lib
bounce.asy
bounce.plt

I rechecked all the (symbol). But netlist showed not the correct link to the library. I was surprised and delete the symbol, and then put it in place. I restarted the file.
See file bounce.zip (update) in temp folder.
I am sorry.

Bordodynov.


03.08.2016, 13:50, "ericsson.sunshine@... [LTspice]" <ltspice@...>:

Hi,?Bordodynov:

.lib ..&#92;sym&#92;Source&#92;source.lib

in the file, It can't find this.

Thank you for the file

Best regards.
 

Go to Text editor file?bounce.asc.
Replace?.lib ..\sym\Source\source.lib to?.lib source.lib
I am sorry.

Bordodynov.
?
 

Yahoo! strongly brakes. I did half an hour as the update file and cover letter, and they still do not.
See?bounce.zip in temp folder.

Bordodynov.
?

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