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Incorrect Rise and Fall time calculations with LTSpice .MEAS command


 

Dear Group Members,

I have been attempting to use the following commands to calculate the output rise and fall times of an inverter and the propagation delay with the following voltage source:

PULSE(0 3.3 1n 1.5n 1.5n 5n 10n)

.MEAS TRAN fall_delay
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1

.MEAS TRAN rise_delay
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.1 TD=0NS RISE=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0NS RISE=1

.MEAS TRAN propagation_fall
+ TRIG V(Vin) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 RISE=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 FALL=1

.MEAS TRAN propagation_rise
+ TRIG V(Vin) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 FALL=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 RISE=1

Unfortunately the results from the .MEAS text do not agree with manual plotting and reading of the waveforms.

i.e.

From Waveform, Rise time = 118ps, Fall time = 152ps

From text, Rise time = 6.7ns, Fall time = 1.6ns

Clearly, I am doing something fundamentally wrong with the .MEAS command but I have been unable to resolve this further. I would really appreciatte some feedback and can supply the circuit schematic and inverter model if required.

Many thank, Ken Potter.


 

--- In LTspice@..., "kpotter999" <kpotter999@...> wrote:

Dear Group Members,

I have been attempting to use the following commands to calculate the output rise and fall times of an inverter and the propagation delay with the following voltage source:

PULSE(0 3.3 1n 1.5n 1.5n 5n 10n)

.MEAS TRAN fall_delay
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1

.MEAS TRAN rise_delay
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.1 TD=0NS RISE=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0NS RISE=1

.MEAS TRAN propagation_fall
+ TRIG V(Vin) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 RISE=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 FALL=1

.MEAS TRAN propagation_rise
+ TRIG V(Vin) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 FALL=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 RISE=1

Unfortunately the results from the .MEAS text do not agree with manual plotting and reading of the waveforms.

i.e.

From Waveform, Rise time = 118ps, Fall time = 152ps

From text, Rise time = 6.7ns, Fall time = 1.6ns

Clearly, I am doing something fundamentally wrong with the .MEAS command but I have been unable to resolve this further. I would really appreciatte some feedback and can supply the circuit schematic and inverter model if required.

Many thank, Ken Potter.
PLEASE IGNORE THE TYPING ERROR the 3rd line should say 3.3*0.1

.MEAS TRAN fall_delay
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1


 

--- In LTspice@..., "kpotter999" <kpotter999@...> wrote:

Dear Group Members,

I have been attempting to use the following commands
to calculate the output rise and fall times of an inverter
and the propagation delay with the following voltage source:

PULSE(0 3.3 1n 1.5n 1.5n 5n 10n)

.MEAS TRAN fall_delay
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1

.MEAS TRAN rise_delay
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.1 TD=0NS RISE=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0NS RISE=1

.MEAS TRAN propagation_fall
+ TRIG V(Vin) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 RISE=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 FALL=1

.MEAS TRAN propagation_rise
+ TRIG V(Vin) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 FALL=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 RISE=1

Unfortunately the results from the .MEAS text do not
agree with manual plotting and reading of the waveforms.

i.e.

From Waveform, Rise time = 118ps, Fall time = 152ps

From text, Rise time = 6.7ns, Fall time = 1.6ns

Clearly, I am doing something fundamentally wrong with
the .MEAS command but I have been unable to resolve
this further. I would really appreciatte some feedback
and can supply the circuit schematic and inverter model
if required.

Many thank, Ken Potter.

Hello Ken,

I have uplaoded an example for you.

Files > Tut > MEASURE > TRAN >RC_measure_rise_fall_delay.asc



I have used the following MEASURE-commands.

.MEAS t1r WHEN V(out)=0.1*5 TD=0 RISE=2
.MEAS t2r WHEN V(out)=0.9*5 TD=0 RISE=2

.MEAS t1f WHEN V(out)=0.9*5 TD=0 FALL=2
.MEAS t2f WHEN V(out)=0.1*5 TD=0 FALL=2

.MEAS tdr1 WHEN V(in)=0.5*5 TD=0 RISE=2
.MEAS tdr2 WHEN V(out)=0.5*5 RISE=2

.MEAS tdf1 WHEN V(in)=0.5*5 TD=0 FALL=2
.MEAS tdf2 WHEN V(out)=0.5*5 TD=0 FALL=2

.MEAS trise PARAM t2r-t1r
.MEAS tfall PARAM t2f-t1f
.MEASURE tdelay_rise PARAM tdr2-tdr1
.MEASURE tdelay_fall PARAM tdf2-tdf1

Best regards,
Helmut


 

--- In LTspice@..., "Helmut" <helmutsennewald@...> wrote:

--- In LTspice@..., "kpotter999" <kpotter999@> wrote:

Dear Group Members,

I have been attempting to use the following commands
to calculate the output rise and fall times of an inverter
and the propagation delay with the following voltage source:

PULSE(0 3.3 1n 1.5n 1.5n 5n 10n)

.MEAS TRAN fall_delay
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1

.MEAS TRAN rise_delay
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.1 TD=0NS RISE=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0NS RISE=1

.MEAS TRAN propagation_fall
+ TRIG V(Vin) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 RISE=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 FALL=1

.MEAS TRAN propagation_rise
+ TRIG V(Vin) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 FALL=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 RISE=1

Unfortunately the results from the .MEAS text do not
agree with manual plotting and reading of the waveforms.

i.e.

From Waveform, Rise time = 118ps, Fall time = 152ps

From text, Rise time = 6.7ns, Fall time = 1.6ns

Clearly, I am doing something fundamentally wrong with
the .MEAS command but I have been unable to resolve
this further. I would really appreciatte some feedback
and can supply the circuit schematic and inverter model
if required.

Many thank, Ken Potter.

Hello Ken,

I have uplaoded an example for you.

Files > Tut > MEASURE > TRAN >RC_measure_rise_fall_delay.asc



I have used the following MEASURE-commands.

.MEAS t1r WHEN V(out)=0.1*5 TD=0 RISE=2
.MEAS t2r WHEN V(out)=0.9*5 TD=0 RISE=2

.MEAS t1f WHEN V(out)=0.9*5 TD=0 FALL=2
.MEAS t2f WHEN V(out)=0.1*5 TD=0 FALL=2

.MEAS tdr1 WHEN V(in)=0.5*5 TD=0 RISE=2
.MEAS tdr2 WHEN V(out)=0.5*5 RISE=2

.MEAS tdf1 WHEN V(in)=0.5*5 TD=0 FALL=2
.MEAS tdf2 WHEN V(out)=0.5*5 TD=0 FALL=2

.MEAS trise PARAM t2r-t1r
.MEAS tfall PARAM t2f-t1f
.MEASURE tdelay_rise PARAM tdr2-tdr1
.MEASURE tdelay_fall PARAM tdf2-tdf1

Best regards,
Helmut
Dear Helmut,

Thank you very much for your reply, I will go and figure this out.

Regards, Ken.


 

--- In LTspice@..., "Ken" <kpotter999@...> wrote:



--- In LTspice@..., "Helmut" <helmutsennewald@> wrote:

--- In LTspice@..., "kpotter999" <kpotter999@> wrote:

Dear Group Members,

I have been attempting to use the following commands
to calculate the output rise and fall times of an inverter
and the propagation delay with the following voltage source:

PULSE(0 3.3 1n 1.5n 1.5n 5n 10n)

.MEAS TRAN fall_delay
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0 FALL=1

.MEAS TRAN rise_delay
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.1 TD=0NS RISE=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.9 TD=0NS RISE=1

.MEAS TRAN propagation_fall
+ TRIG V(Vin) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 RISE=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 FALL=1

.MEAS TRAN propagation_rise
+ TRIG V(Vin) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 FALL=1
+ TRIG V(Vout) VAL=3.3*0.5 TD=0 RISE=1

Unfortunately the results from the .MEAS text do not
agree with manual plotting and reading of the waveforms.

i.e.

From Waveform, Rise time = 118ps, Fall time = 152ps

From text, Rise time = 6.7ns, Fall time = 1.6ns

Clearly, I am doing something fundamentally wrong with
the .MEAS command but I have been unable to resolve
this further. I would really appreciatte some feedback
and can supply the circuit schematic and inverter model
if required.

Many thank, Ken Potter.

Hello Ken,

I have uplaoded an example for you.

Files > Tut > MEASURE > TRAN >RC_measure_rise_fall_delay.asc



I have used the following MEASURE-commands.

.MEAS t1r WHEN V(out)=0.1*5 TD=0 RISE=2
.MEAS t2r WHEN V(out)=0.9*5 TD=0 RISE=2

.MEAS t1f WHEN V(out)=0.9*5 TD=0 FALL=2
.MEAS t2f WHEN V(out)=0.1*5 TD=0 FALL=2

.MEAS tdr1 WHEN V(in)=0.5*5 TD=0 RISE=2
.MEAS tdr2 WHEN V(out)=0.5*5 RISE=2

.MEAS tdf1 WHEN V(in)=0.5*5 TD=0 FALL=2
.MEAS tdf2 WHEN V(out)=0.5*5 TD=0 FALL=2

.MEAS trise PARAM t2r-t1r
.MEAS tfall PARAM t2f-t1f
.MEASURE tdelay_rise PARAM tdr2-tdr1
.MEASURE tdelay_fall PARAM tdf2-tdf1

Best regards,
Helmut
Dear Helmut,

Thank you very much for your reply, I will go and figure this out.

Regards, Ken.
Dear Helmut,

Just to let you know that worked perfectly! Very gratefull, Ken.