¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Date

Re: Using BV exp(), log() for numerical compression ,wrong result ?

 

Hello,

Even log(0) is a big problem. The result be -infinity which is useless in a real circuit. That's why my suggested IF() has used a limit of 1e-6.

Best regards,
Helmut


Re: Using BV exp(), log() for numerical compression ,wrong result ?

 

Hi, Helmut:

Thank you for the suggestions, but if I use the IF() as you mentioned, x couldn't be recovered as it was before compression.
But your answer seems LTspice couldn't treat the negative value of nature log very well, which normally return the complex value, eg: log(-2) =?0.6931 +? 3.1416i.
As I said, LTspice couldn't see the complex (imaginary) parts. And treat it very well, as it should be treated in the normal math world.

Though I found another solution, it's using the dc-bias in the source signal, after recovered it, eliminate the dc-bias, this could be done well, too. But I am thinking, why LTspice couldn't treat those math functions equal-footing, alternatively, some math functions are biased, while some are? "NOT SUPPORTED/PARTLY SUPPORTED". Is it fair , unfair ?

Best regards,
---In LTspice@..., <helmutsennewald@...> wrote :

Hello,

You have used log() from negative numbers. Normal calculators will fail in this case.

I recommend to use an IF() to workaround.

V=IF(V(x)<1e-6,0,log(V(x))

Be aware that log() is the same as ln(). log10() is the logarithm base 10.

Best regards,
Helmut


Re: CD4060 and CD4063 LTSpice models needed

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

4063 is a 4-bit magnitude comparator (for comparing the dimensions of 1 dollar bills?), so is a purely digital device and not very suitable for Spice simulation at all.

Best wishes
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-11-26 04:34, Andy ai.egrps@... [LTspice] wrote:

?
electronicafrind (Juan Esteban) wrote, "I need CD4060 and CD4063 LTSpice models, .subckt and .asy files."

When you joined this group, you read about the "Table of Contents" file (all_files.htm), which led you to the CD4060 model and symbol.? How did that work out for you?

Sorry, I can't help you with the CD4063.

Regards,
Andy



Re: Have anyone built black hole model already ?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hello, ES.

It's not easy to interpret your musings on space-time, but in your first paragraph you actually ask for two different, but related, things. There are many textbooks on semiconductor theory and design, but don't expect them to include the application of the theory to the design of Spice models. You might be lucky to find a book that does that, however. There are also textbooks and papers on the design of Spice models, but they start from a prior understanding of the concepts and relationships of semiconductor theory.

I can't give you references to actual publications, but I'm sure there are others here who can.

'CMOS circuit design and simulation' is, I think, about designing ICs, i.e. processes to make CMOS devices, device dimensions required for a given performance, interactions between nearby devices and many other things, This is neither the basic theory that you want or the link from basic theory to model design; it's more a 'workshop manual'.

Best wishes
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-11-26 02:38, ericsson.sunshine@... [LTspice] wrote:

?

Hello, John:


Thank you for the replies. Though several days ago, I would like someone could suggest some materials (textbook) about the semiconductors, electron-hole pairs, carriers, etc. Everything needed for a SPCE modeling. I even don't have the concept of where to begin. (Though I have heard "CMOS circuit design layout and simulation", but I am not sure if that's enough. And haven't done reading it yet.)

Though same "hole" things in this thread, but size is completely different. I have less things to say about black hole and the space things, I agree what you have said about the 1-dimension or 3-dimension, that's what I am familiar about, too. The idea is just an illusion. As you said , no one could prove it. Especially this/(those) body(ies) none exist in space (has no dimensions/size). No bodies...so that, I just think if the time-space is exchanged, time could be traveled, and space couldn't be traveled, but still in it, how to explain ? does that mean, fully filled the space , feel the all space ? Have (in) it all, but couldn't travel move forward/backward.

Just some interesting thoughts, has anyone ever dreamed about "being a small fish pursuit by a bigger one, and felt the bloody mouth of the hunter", thus feel the feeling/thoughts of the instances ?

Actually, this shouldn't be discussed here, so that, in fact, what I really hope to learn is , more inspirations about SPICE modeling.

If you could kindly help more inspirations.

Thank you very much.

Best regards.


---In LTspice@..., wrote :

Yes, there are many models of black holes, but none, I suppose, that are compatible with LTspice! No existing models are considered satisfactory. More research is, of course, needed.

There is a good explanation of the distorting effects of black hole gravity on space-time in 'From Eternity to Here' by Sean Carroll, ISBN9781-85168-795-4.

If the Universe is a black hole (as has indeed been suggested), we would almost certainly not be able to prove it, because we are inside it. Your question about 'outside it' is meaningless in terms of what we can know, and may be absolutely meaningless, by which I mean that if there are other black hole Universes, that might observe ours, no-one there could tell what is happening inside our Universe.

Opinion is divided on whether other Universes exist, and whether they could have different Laws of Physics, such as you suggest, where time-travel is easy and three-dimensional, but space is one-dimensional and space travel is not easy. Note that physical bodies cannot exist in a Universe with fewer than two space dimensions, and living bodies as we know them require three dimensions.

Best wishes
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-11-23 03:13, ericsson.sunshine@... [LTspice] wrote:
?

Hi, :


I am curious about the black hole, so though it's almost impossible, but ...maybe someone who might have studied that before...that's did anyone study hard about the black hole very well and? have built black hole model already ?


Recently, I heard that, there is theoretically sayings which states "in the black hole, the time-space is exchanged,? which says in the black hole, the moving-direction is only one way direction, and the time for the one inside the black hole is very slow (from viewpoint of the outside one from black hole), it seems meaning, in the black hole, space is only one way direction while the time could be varying forward ,backward, rightward, leftward, etc.(time-space exchanged)" , so that this saying caused me the question , is that possible that we are all living in a bigggggg BLACK HOLE, which includes the whole universe, and in this bigggggg BLACK HOLE, the time is one way direction, the space is traveling-abled,? as we experienced so far, but if this theory states is correct, would that means outside this bigggggg BLACK HOLE, OUT THERE, time is traveling-abled, and space is .....one way direction- LINED UP ? I don't quite know what's that, so that's why I'm here and the request, I hope to know more about the black hole , have anyone already built one ?


Thank you very much


Best regards.


Re: Using BV exp(), log() for numerical compression ,wrong result ?

 

Hello,

You have used log() from negative numbers. Normal calculators will fail in this case.

I recommend to use an IF() to workaround.

V=IF(V(x)<1e-6,0,log(V(x))

Be aware that log() is the same as ln(). log10() is the logarithm base 10.

Best regards,
Helmut


Re: Using BV exp(), log() for numerical compression ,wrong result ?

 

You know, if my window could tolerate a swing of 100, this method will help avoiding ruin my window. Since the swing could minimize from 1Mega to thirteen degree.
Wouldn't you like to know the answer, possible or impossible ?

Or still the old problem, LTspice could see the complex (imaginary) part. Which does exist in the real world.

Best regards.

---In LTspice@..., <ericsson.sunshine@...> wrote :

Hi, :

Please help, do you know how much powerful this will help, it could minimize the numerical value from 120dB to number '13.8155'. Which help to plot/sketch them in a single graph. Where stores much info and without distort it.

thank you very much.

---In LTspice@..., <ericsson.sunshine@...> wrote :

Hi, :


While I am thinking using a mathematical compression (limit the numerical values to a scaled range, then revert them) algorithm, I found that in the BV device, the exp(), log() (natural algorithm) couldn't work as expect, normally I wish to use the math equation, x = log ( exp(x) ) or x = exp( log(x) ), but the waveform output disappointed me, the result from BV makes the 'x ' won't be the source of the signal.


Does anyone know why ? Can it be fixed ? Do I need any bias in LTspice ? I pretty sure some tools didn't need bias.


I have uploaded a file '20181126_20181126_BV_exp_log_convert.zip' at the temp folder.


Thank you very much.


Best regards.


Re: Using BV exp(), log() for numerical compression ,wrong result ?

 

Hi, :

Please help, do you know how much powerful this will help, it could minimize the numerical value from 120dB to number '13.8155'. Which help to plot/sketch them in a single graph. Where stores much info and without distort it.

thank you very much.

---In LTspice@..., <ericsson.sunshine@...> wrote :

Hi, :


While I am thinking using a mathematical compression (limit the numerical values to a scaled range, then revert them) algorithm, I found that in the BV device, the exp(), log() (natural algorithm) couldn't work as expect, normally I wish to use the math equation, x = log ( exp(x) ) or x = exp( log(x) ), but the waveform output disappointed me, the result from BV makes the 'x ' won't be the source of the signal.


Does anyone know why ? Can it be fixed ? Do I need any bias in LTspice ? I pretty sure some tools didn't need bias.


I have uploaded a file '20181126_20181126_BV_exp_log_convert.zip' at the temp folder.


Thank you very much.


Best regards.


Using BV exp(), log() for numerical compression ,wrong result ?

 

Hi, :


While I am thinking using a mathematical compression (limit the numerical values to a scaled range, then revert them) algorithm, I found that in the BV device, the exp(), log() (natural algorithm) couldn't work as expect, normally I wish to use the math equation, x = log ( exp(x) ) or x = exp( log(x) ), but the waveform output disappointed me, the result from BV makes the 'x ' won't be the source of the signal.


Does anyone know why ? Can it be fixed ? Do I need any bias in LTspice ? I pretty sure some tools didn't need bias.


I have uploaded a file '20181126_20181126_BV_exp_log_convert.zip' at the temp folder.


Thank you very much.


Best regards.


Re: CD4060 and CD4063 LTSpice models needed

 

Hi Juan,
The CD4060 is there in the files. There are several locations. You need to unzip the file. In one of them you will see the symbol and the subckt with a test schematic. But the subckt is a .M00 file.
I tried the trial schematic. It works.
Best regards,
Eric


On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 11:38 PM Andy ai.egrps@... [LTspice] <LTspice@...> wrote:
?

electronicafrind (Juan Esteban) wrote, "I need CD4060 and CD4063 LTSpice models, .subckt and .asy files."

When you joined this group, you read about the "Table of Contents" file (all_files.htm), which led you to the CD4060 model and symbol.? How did that work out for you?

Sorry, I can't help you with the CD4063.

Regards,
Andy



MC33074, MC33072, MC34074P

 

Hi Bordodynov,


Thank you for your model of MC34074P. We have been using thousands of the MC33074 and MC33072 in our boards.? I designed the old school way of actual breadboarding and pcb proto before launching to final production. I just started LTSpice 3 mos ago as I just came accross it by accident through ready to test simulations of LT smps ic's. We use also a lot of LT and AD devices by the way. I found your MC34074P?(which is same family as MC33074/2/1) then in the LTspice Yahoo files, but I didn't know how to make use of it. Now I was already able to add it to my library and actually start simulating with it.?


Thanks to Andy for patiently tutoring me.?


Appreciate also all the hard work Helmut has been throwing in to make such a hugh volume of achives available to the community especially the newbies.


Best regards,

Eric


Re: CD4060 and CD4063 LTSpice models needed

 

electronicafrind (Juan Esteban) wrote, "I need CD4060 and CD4063 LTSpice models, .subckt and .asy files."

When you joined this group, you read about the "Table of Contents" file (all_files.htm), which led you to the CD4060 model and symbol.? How did that work out for you?

Sorry, I can't help you with the CD4063.

Regards,
Andy



Re: LTSpice Model for Photo Triac - VOM160

 

Hi Andy,
I like your suggestion. So now my backgound is dark gray! I'm ok with seeing the icons. So no problem whatever my default settings are.

Hi Bordodynov,
I have used another of your models. I have opened a new topic for it.

Thanks and best regards,
Eric

On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 4:52 AM §¡§Ý§Ö§Ü§ã§Ñ§ß§Õ§â §¢§à§â§Õ§à§Õ§í§ß§à§Ó BordodunovAlex@... [LTspice] <LTspice@...> wrote:

?

Hello Andy.
I occasionally have this situation (an additional extension txt is added). It annoys me. I do rename (delete txt). But since I rarely download models (I already have a lot of them), I put up with it.
?
Bordodynov.


25.11.2018, 11:52, "Andy ai.egrps@... [LTspice]" <ltspice@...>:
?

Eric, I imagine that the Chrome browser you use probably does the same thing as Windows Explorer: it displays the icon that Windows passes it, just the same as Windows Explorer does.

I've read that some web browsers change the filenames of some files when they downloaded them (by adding ".txt" for example to the end of the file).? I guess they probably do that to make it easier for you to open a text file even if the file you downloaded didn't already have a ".txt" on its filename.? I don't know if it's a setting you can change.? But not all web browsers do that.

Regarding the waveform plot colors, yes, a number of us change our color settings.? Me, I also find the blue waveform to be close to invisible on the black background, so I've always set my LTspice waveform colors differently.? What I do even differently from you, is to use a white (or very light grey) background.? I'm not the only one doing that.? I am not sure why I like dark waveforms on a light background, because oscilloscopes didn't do that; but I find it more pleasing to my eye.

Regards,
Andy



Re: Have anyone built black hole model already ?

 

Also, sometimes when I came cross the streets, I saw some ignorant little boys playing and sitting fat men aside , I always hope/remind myself, I should fulfill my mind soul, brain more, such that I could admire the life, instead of the eternity boring, collapse, when seeing all this.

So, how about do me a favor, help delight me more, the SPICE modeling.....

Thank you very much.


---In LTspice@..., <ericsson.sunshine@...> wrote :

Hello, John:

Thank you for the replies. Though several days ago, I would like someone could suggest some materials (textbook) about the semiconductors, electron-hole pairs, carriers, etc. Everything needed for a SPCE modeling. I even don't have the concept of where to begin. (Though I have heard "CMOS circuit design layout and simulation", but I am not sure if that's enough. And haven't done reading it yet.)

Though same "hole" things in this thread, but size is completely different. I have less things to say about black hole and the space things, I agree what you have said about the 1-dimension or 3-dimension, that's what I am familiar about, too. The idea is just an illusion. As you said , no one could prove it. Especially this/(those) body(ies) none exist in space (has no dimensions/size). No bodies...so that, I just think if the time-space is exchanged, time could be traveled, and space couldn't be traveled, but still in it, how to explain ? does that mean, fully filled the space , feel the all space ? Have (in) it all, but couldn't travel move forward/backward.

Just some interesting thoughts, has anyone ever dreamed about "being a small fish pursuit by a bigger one, and felt the bloody mouth of the hunter", thus feel the feeling/thoughts of the instances ?

Actually, this shouldn't be discussed here, so that, in fact, what I really hope to learn is , more inspirations about SPICE modeling.

If you could kindly help more inspirations.

Thank you very much.

Best regards.


---In LTspice@..., <jmw@...> wrote :

Yes, there are many models of black holes, but none, I suppose, that are compatible with LTspice! No existing models are considered satisfactory. More research is, of course, needed.

There is a good explanation of the distorting effects of black hole gravity on space-time in 'From Eternity to Here' by Sean Carroll, ISBN9781-85168-795-4.

If the Universe is a black hole (as has indeed been suggested), we would almost certainly not be able to prove it, because we are inside it. Your question about 'outside it' is meaningless in terms of what we can know, and may be absolutely meaningless, by which I mean that if there are other black hole Universes, that might observe ours, no-one there could tell what is happening inside our Universe.

Opinion is divided on whether other Universes exist, and whether they could have different Laws of Physics, such as you suggest, where time-travel is easy and three-dimensional, but space is one-dimensional and space travel is not easy. Note that physical bodies cannot exist in a Universe with fewer than two space dimensions, and living bodies as we know them require three dimensions.

Best wishes
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-11-23 03:13, ericsson.sunshine@... [LTspice] wrote:

?

Hi, :


I am curious about the black hole, so though it's almost impossible, but ...maybe someone who might have studied that before...that's did anyone study hard about the black hole very well and? have built black hole model already ?


Recently, I heard that, there is theoretically sayings which states "in the black hole, the time-space is exchanged,? which says in the black hole, the moving-direction is only one way direction, and the time for the one inside the black hole is very slow (from viewpoint of the outside one from black hole), it seems meaning, in the black hole, space is only one way direction while the time could be varying forward ,backward, rightward, leftward, etc.(time-space exchanged)" , so that this saying caused me the question , is that possible that we are all living in a bigggggg BLACK HOLE, which includes the whole universe, and in this bigggggg BLACK HOLE, the time is one way direction, the space is traveling-abled,? as we experienced so far, but if this theory states is correct, would that means outside this bigggggg BLACK HOLE, OUT THERE, time is traveling-abled, and space is .....one way direction- LINED UP ? I don't quite know what's that, so that's why I'm here and the request, I hope to know more about the black hole , have anyone already built one ?


Thank you very much


Best regards.


CD4060 and CD4063 LTSpice models needed

 

Hi everyone


I need CD4060 and CD4063 LTSpice models, .subckt and .asy files.


Thanks in advance.


Re: Have anyone built black hole model already ?

 

Hello, John:

Thank you for the replies. Though several days ago, I would like someone could suggest some materials (textbook) about the semiconductors, electron-hole pairs, carriers, etc. Everything needed for a SPCE modeling. I even don't have the concept of where to begin. (Though I have heard "CMOS circuit design layout and simulation", but I am not sure if that's enough. And haven't done reading it yet.)

Though same "hole" things in this thread, but size is completely different. I have less things to say about black hole and the space things, I agree what you have said about the 1-dimension or 3-dimension, that's what I am familiar about, too. The idea is just an illusion. As you said , no one could prove it. Especially this/(those) body(ies) none exist in space (has no dimensions/size). No bodies...so that, I just think if the time-space is exchanged, time could be traveled, and space couldn't be traveled, but still in it, how to explain ? does that mean, fully filled the space , feel the all space ? Have (in) it all, but couldn't travel move forward/backward.

Just some interesting thoughts, has anyone ever dreamed about "being a small fish pursuit by a bigger one, and felt the bloody mouth of the hunter", thus feel the feeling/thoughts of the instances ?

Actually, this shouldn't be discussed here, so that, in fact, what I really hope to learn is , more inspirations about SPICE modeling.

If you could kindly help more inspirations.

Thank you very much.

Best regards.


---In LTspice@..., <jmw@...> wrote :

Yes, there are many models of black holes, but none, I suppose, that are compatible with LTspice! No existing models are considered satisfactory. More research is, of course, needed.

There is a good explanation of the distorting effects of black hole gravity on space-time in 'From Eternity to Here' by Sean Carroll, ISBN9781-85168-795-4.

If the Universe is a black hole (as has indeed been suggested), we would almost certainly not be able to prove it, because we are inside it. Your question about 'outside it' is meaningless in terms of what we can know, and may be absolutely meaningless, by which I mean that if there are other black hole Universes, that might observe ours, no-one there could tell what is happening inside our Universe.

Opinion is divided on whether other Universes exist, and whether they could have different Laws of Physics, such as you suggest, where time-travel is easy and three-dimensional, but space is one-dimensional and space travel is not easy. Note that physical bodies cannot exist in a Universe with fewer than two space dimensions, and living bodies as we know them require three dimensions.

Best wishes
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-11-23 03:13, ericsson.sunshine@... [LTspice] wrote:

?

Hi, :


I am curious about the black hole, so though it's almost impossible, but ...maybe someone who might have studied that before...that's did anyone study hard about the black hole very well and? have built black hole model already ?


Recently, I heard that, there is theoretically sayings which states "in the black hole, the time-space is exchanged,? which says in the black hole, the moving-direction is only one way direction, and the time for the one inside the black hole is very slow (from viewpoint of the outside one from black hole), it seems meaning, in the black hole, space is only one way direction while the time could be varying forward ,backward, rightward, leftward, etc.(time-space exchanged)" , so that this saying caused me the question , is that possible that we are all living in a bigggggg BLACK HOLE, which includes the whole universe, and in this bigggggg BLACK HOLE, the time is one way direction, the space is traveling-abled,? as we experienced so far, but if this theory states is correct, would that means outside this bigggggg BLACK HOLE, OUT THERE, time is traveling-abled, and space is .....one way direction- LINED UP ? I don't quite know what's that, so that's why I'm here and the request, I hope to know more about the black hole , have anyone already built one ?


Thank you very much


Best regards.


Re: introduction of a new vacuum tube spice model approach

 

Oops!
Here the missed link...?


regards, Adrian


Re: introduction of a new vacuum tube spice model approach

 

Hi analogspiceman

A comparison is good idea - here it is.

As supposed, the two other models (Koren and Rydel) found here are not able to describe the "Anlauf" current. Also, the contact voltage seams to be just some mV, way off reality...
Furthermore, the Rydel model's gm factor is a hole decade to low - not recommendable for use!

kind regards, Adrian


Re: Adjusting Bode plot phase

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I have read the paper, and I recommend reading it, as it is very well written and fairly easy to understand. I agree with Andy that the voltage source should be applied at the left end of the line, not from one end to the other. One of the few faults in the paper is that it doesn't show the source in several cases; I suspect that for some of the models that the authors do not like the source should be a current source.

Distributed RC lines are quite interesting; they can even be used as tuned circuits.

Best wishes
John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
J M Woodgate and Associates 
Rayleigh, Essex UK
On 2018-11-25 07:07, Andy ai.egrps@... [LTspice] wrote:

?
Jerry, I have not read the paper you referred to, but regarding your simulation, I wonder why you connected a voltage source between the ends of the RC line?? Unless I'm wrong, it looks as if you still want to do that.? I'm wondering, why is that a useful thing to do, and what does it tell you?? I may be the "dummy" here, but it seems to me that the purpose of the RC ladder network was to have one end as the "input" and the other end as the eventual "output".? That doesn't happen if you connect a voltage source between the ends.

To show how much of a dummy I am, I didn't know what "EIS spectrum" meant, so I looked it up.? It is the Electrochemical Impedance Spectroscopy spectrum.? I think it has something to do with measuring the impedance of an electrochemical cell, which I think I understand, but there is a lot more to it that I don't understand.? Apparently it is customary to use Nyquist plots when doing this.? I don't know if it is the same kind of Nyquist plots that EEs are accustomed to using.

I'm just worried that we may not be speaking the same language as one another.

Regards,
Andy



Re: LTSpice Model for Photo Triac - VOM160

 

Hello Andy.
I occasionally have this situation (an additional extension txt is added). It annoys me. I do rename (delete txt). But since I rarely download models (I already have a lot of them), I put up with it.
?
Bordodynov.


25.11.2018, 11:52, "Andy ai.egrps@... [LTspice]" <ltspice@...>:

?

Eric, I imagine that the Chrome browser you use probably does the same thing as Windows Explorer: it displays the icon that Windows passes it, just the same as Windows Explorer does.

I've read that some web browsers change the filenames of some files when they downloaded them (by adding ".txt" for example to the end of the file).? I guess they probably do that to make it easier for you to open a text file even if the file you downloaded didn't already have a ".txt" on its filename.? I don't know if it's a setting you can change.? But not all web browsers do that.

Regarding the waveform plot colors, yes, a number of us change our color settings.? Me, I also find the blue waveform to be close to invisible on the black background, so I've always set my LTspice waveform colors differently.? What I do even differently from you, is to use a white (or very light grey) background.? I'm not the only one doing that.? I am not sure why I like dark waveforms on a light background, because oscilloscopes didn't do that; but I find it more pleasing to my eye.

Regards,
Andy



Re: LTSpice Model for Photo Triac - VOM160

 

Eric, I imagine that the Chrome browser you use probably does the same thing as Windows Explorer: it displays the icon that Windows passes it, just the same as Windows Explorer does.

I've read that some web browsers change the filenames of some files when they downloaded them (by adding ".txt" for example to the end of the file).? I guess they probably do that to make it easier for you to open a text file even if the file you downloaded didn't already have a ".txt" on its filename.? I don't know if it's a setting you can change.? But not all web browsers do that.

Regarding the waveform plot colors, yes, a number of us change our color settings.? Me, I also find the blue waveform to be close to invisible on the black background, so I've always set my LTspice waveform colors differently.? What I do even differently from you, is to use a white (or very light grey) background.? I'm not the only one doing that.? I am not sure why I like dark waveforms on a light background, because oscilloscopes didn't do that; but I find it more pleasing to my eye.

Regards,
Andy