Re: Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
I agree that Win32 is not a native Windows
folder, but the preference for running third-party apps is still
to put them in C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Programs\
Why risk trouble by not doing that?
On 2025-06-01 22:49, eewiz via
groups.io wrote:
Hello John:
?
Yep, except my seperated versions reside in C:\Win32\LTC.
?
C:\Win32 is
not a native folder in Windows 10 nor windows 11.
You may be
thinking of C:\Windows\System32, which is a Windows native
folder, which I am not using.
C:Win32 in no
more native to windows than C:\John or C:\William is.
?
Windows nor LTspice has any preference where LTspice is
installed.
There are places that the LTspice installer puts things
because the programmer of the installer decided to put them
there.
Those places are not "Preferred."
LTspice will run from wherever the Windows directory
points the .asc file extension to.
Or, wherever LTspice is installed if run directly.
?
You can even run multiple simultaneous copies of
different versions or simultaneous copies of the same
version.
The only restriction is that each copy must be
cranking a differently named schematic or there will be
temporary-file clash, since the .log and .raw files take
on the same name as the schematic.
?
All for now
Sent:?Sunday,
June 01, 2025 at 4:58 PM
From:?"John Woodgate via groups.io"
<jmw@...>
To:? [email protected]
Subject:?Re: [LTspice] Installing 24.1.9
Removed My 24.0.12
I'm not sure that it's good to
put non-Windows files in C:/WIN32. I'm pretty
sure that Windows 11 would like it here:?
C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Programs\ADI\LTspice\ltspice.exe
Of course, to keep more than one version, you
would need something like:
C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Programs\ADI\LTspice2x\ltspice.exe
for each version.
On 2025-06-01 21:48,
eewiz via groups.io wrote:
Hello Donald:
?
If bottles on WINE, are the same as,
folders on Windows, then the answer is yes.
?
My file structure:
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.1
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceIV
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceXVII
?
Each version is installed in it's own
folder.
Installing 24.1.9 creates a new folder
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9, and during the
installation process, erases all files in the
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12 folder which is
the current Windows registry holder.
If 24.1.9 interrogates the registry to
determine what the current installed version
is, it finds "C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12.
The 24.1.9 installer does not erase
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.1 nor
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceXVII, etc...
It only erases the current registry
holder which is version 24.0.12.
?
All for now
?
Sent:?Sunday,
June 01, 2025 at 4:24 PM
From:?"Donald H Locker via
groups.io" <dhlocker@...>
To:? [email protected]
Subject:?Re: [LTspice] Installing
24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
Speaking of LTspice on WINE - do
you use separate "bottles" for each
installation, or are they all in the
same bottle?
Donald.
On 6/1/25
08:35, Tony Casey via groups.io
wrote:
On
01/06/2025 11:05, Andy I via
groups.io wrote:
There might be problems if it
does that.? I don't know, but
I'm suggesting that there may
have been a good reason for
adding that check.
?
Previously, it was not an
issue and you could install
multiple versions of LTspice on
the same PC, even installing
them in random order.? But
users, and LTspice itself, need
to be careful about things like
preserving the libraries, and I
suspect that was the reason for
Analog Devices to add code to
check that it is not updating a
newer version with an older
one.? Maybe they want to reduce
the chances of really screwing
up your libraries.? (I don't
know - I'm only guessing here.)
I've had no problems installing 3
different version of LTspice on my
computer. (I used to keep LTspiceIV
as well, but gave up on that,
because it was too different, and
very few folk can still have that
installed, except for our friend in
Syria, who cannot access any more
recent versions.) As you know, I'm
primarily a Linux user, but Wine
supports a registry of sorts, too,
that is broadly compatible with the
Windows one insofar as necessary for
Windows programs to function
correctly. When I "upgrade" the
24.1.x version, I always download
and install the new one, so I always
have the installer program for the
future, as the problem with always
upgrading in situ is that you cannot
easily go back to any particular
setting you had in the past. I know
that, technically, Windows provides
this feature with the "System
Restore Points", but that never
seems to quite do what you want it
to.
The uninstall/removal issue only
happens if you try install the new
version into the same folder the old
version is located, in my
experience. In which case, the
installation program tells you the
folder already exists, and asks if
you want to install there anyway.
?
--
Regards,
Tony
--
Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own
Opinions Only If
something is true: * as far as we know - it's
science *for certain - it's mathematics
*unquestionably - it's religion
--
Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own Opinions Only
If something is true: * as far as we know - it's science *for
certain - it's mathematics *unquestionably - it's religion
|
Re: Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
Hello John:
?
Yep, except my seperated versions reside in C:\Win32\LTC.
?
C:\Win32 is not a native folder in Windows 10 nor windows 11.
You may be thinking of C:\Windows\System32, which is a Windows native folder, which I am not using.
C:Win32 in no more native to windows than C:\John or C:\William is.
?
Windows nor LTspice has any preference where LTspice is installed.
There are places that the LTspice installer puts things because the programmer of the installer decided to put them there.
Those places are not "Preferred."
LTspice will run from wherever the Windows directory points the .asc file extension to.
Or, wherever LTspice is installed if run directly.
?
You can even run multiple simultaneous copies of different versions or simultaneous copies of the same version.
The only restriction is that each copy must be cranking a differently named schematic or there will be temporary-file clash, since the .log and .raw files take on the same name as the schematic.
?
All for now
Sent:?Sunday, June 01, 2025 at 4:58 PM
From:?"John Woodgate via groups.io" <jmw@...>
To:[email protected]
Subject:?Re: [LTspice] Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
I'm not sure that it's good to put non-Windows files in C:/WIN32. I'm pretty sure that Windows 11 would like it here:? C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Programs\ADI\LTspice\ltspice.exe Of course, to keep more than one version, you would need something like: C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Programs\ADI\LTspice2x\ltspice.exe for each version.
On 2025-06-01 21:48, eewiz via groups.io wrote:
Hello Donald:
?
If bottles on WINE, are the same as, folders on Windows, then the answer is yes.
?
My file structure:
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.1
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceIV
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceXVII
?
Each version is installed in it's own folder.
Installing 24.1.9 creates a new folder C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9, and during the installation process, erases all files in the C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12 folder which is the current Windows registry holder.
If 24.1.9 interrogates the registry to determine what the current installed version is, it finds "C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12.
The 24.1.9 installer does not erase C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.1 nor C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceXVII, etc...
It only erases the current registry holder which is version 24.0.12.
?
All for now
?
Sent:?Sunday, June 01, 2025 at 4:24 PM
From:?"Donald H Locker via groups.io" <dhlocker@...>
To:? [email protected]
Subject:?Re: [LTspice] Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
Speaking of LTspice on WINE - do you use separate "bottles" for each installation, or are they all in the same bottle?
Donald.
On 6/1/25 08:35, Tony Casey via groups.io wrote:
On 01/06/2025 11:05, Andy I via groups.io wrote:
There might be problems if it does that.? I don't know, but I'm suggesting that there may have been a good reason for adding that check.
?
Previously, it was not an issue and you could install multiple versions of LTspice on the same PC, even installing them in random order.? But users, and LTspice itself, need to be careful about things like preserving the libraries, and I suspect that was the reason for Analog Devices to add code to check that it is not updating a newer version with an older one.? Maybe they want to reduce the chances of really screwing up your libraries.? (I don't know - I'm only guessing here.)
I've had no problems installing 3 different version of LTspice on my computer. (I used to keep LTspiceIV as well, but gave up on that, because it was too different, and very few folk can still have that installed, except for our friend in Syria, who cannot access any more recent versions.) As you know, I'm primarily a Linux user, but Wine supports a registry of sorts, too, that is broadly compatible with the Windows one insofar as necessary for Windows programs to function correctly. When I "upgrade" the 24.1.x version, I always download and install the new one, so I always have the installer program for the future, as the problem with always upgrading in situ is that you cannot easily go back to any particular setting you had in the past. I know that, technically, Windows provides this feature with the "System Restore Points", but that never seems to quite do what you want it to.
The uninstall/removal issue only happens if you try install the new version into the same folder the old version is located, in my experience. In which case, the installation program tells you the folder already exists, and asks if you want to install there anyway.
?
--
Regards,
Tony
--
Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own Opinions Only If something is true: * as far as we know - it's science *for certain - it's mathematics *unquestionably - it's religion
|
Re: Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
I'm afraid I can't really comment specifically on Win11 because I've
never used it. My desktop PC can run it, but my other machines can't
because either their motherboard BIOS or CPU don't support Safe
Boot. So, I've not considered using it. Linux is much more
accommodating. But at least one of my PCs must run Widows
(deliberate misspelling) because it
has ATE programs on it that aren't supported on Linux to any
reasonable degree.
--
Regards,
Tony
On 01/06/2025 23:18, John Woodgate via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I agree with your reasoning, but there are
many hidden rules in Win 11, and it's unwise, I think, not to
follow them, especially if there is no reason not to follow
them. I suspect some of the 'rules' are 'not specifically
intended' consequences of the Windows programmers assuming
that all the rules they know about are followed by the app
writers and the users.
On 2025-06-01 22:05, Tony Casey via
groups.io wrote:
On 01/06/2025 22:16, eewiz via
groups.io wrote:
1. Erase the C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9 folder.
Makes no difference to windows because 24.1.9 had already
been removed to allow re-installation of 24.0.12 yesterday.
Remember, today's existing 24.1.9 folder was copied there
yesterday after 24.0.12 was re-installed.
This also shows that an LTspice installation folder can
be copied anywhere just like you would a portable program
that has no installer.
In my case, 24.1.9 ran normally from that copied folder,
even though the windows registry contents now support
24.0.12.
It appears that LTspice actually is a portable program
with an installer to setup only file extensions in the
registry.
It appears to require no registry support at runtime.
If you're running from the executable, it make no difference.
If you're running from a shortcut, i.e. the Start Menu, and move
the target file, the shortcut will follow it, which is different
from a symbolic link, which does not follow the target.
If the folder name is unchanged but contains a different LTspice
version, it will also continue to work.
That's because the name of the executable is the same
(LTspice.exe) between all the different versions (17.* - 24.*).
Windows doesn't know which one it's running.
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Re: Diode charactoristic differences between modelling tools
That's the distinction I was trying to make, but obviously failed.
The OP mentioned "Shockley" diodes, but clearly meant "Schottky",
because of the mention of low Vf.
BTW, the Shockley equation works just the same with Schottky diodes,
but the diode parameters are different (specifically Is), due to the
lower energy gap. It even works for LEDs and UV laser diodes as well
as solar panels, so long as Is is chosen appropriately. The Is
default value of 1e-14 is appropriate for small BJT, but not for a
diode, even though the default value is the same.
These days, the equation is often not linked to Shockley, but simply
called the "Ideal Diode Equation", presumably due to Shockley's fall
from grace on account of his deeply unpopular predatory nature and
eugenics proclivities.
--
Regards,
Tony
On 01/06/2025 22:35, eewiz via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Not to be confused with
the Schottky metal contact diode that is not the subject of
the "Shockley Diode Equation."
|
Re: Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
I agree with your reasoning, but there are
many hidden rules in Win 11, and it's unwise, I think, not to
follow them, especially if there is no reason not to follow
them. I suspect some of the 'rules' are 'not specifically
intended' consequences of the Windows programmers assuming that
all the rules they know about are followed by the app writers
and the users.
On 2025-06-01 22:05, Tony Casey via
groups.io wrote:
On 01/06/2025 22:16, eewiz via
groups.io wrote:
1. Erase the C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9 folder.
Makes no difference to windows because 24.1.9 had already
been removed to allow re-installation of 24.0.12 yesterday.
Remember, today's existing 24.1.9 folder was copied there
yesterday after 24.0.12 was re-installed.
This also shows that an LTspice installation folder can be
copied anywhere just like you would a portable program that
has no installer.
In my case, 24.1.9 ran normally from that copied folder,
even though the windows registry contents now support 24.0.12.
It appears that LTspice actually is a portable program with
an installer to setup only file extensions in the registry.
It appears to require no registry support at runtime.
If you're running from the executable, it make no difference.
If you're running from a shortcut, i.e. the Start Menu, and move
the target file, the shortcut will follow it, which is different
from a symbolic link, which does not follow the target.
If the folder name is unchanged but contains a different LTspice
version, it will also continue to work.
That's because the name of the executable is the same
(LTspice.exe) between all the different versions (17.* - 24.*).
Windows doesn't know which one it's running.
--
Regards,
Tony
--
Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own Opinions Only
If something is true: * as far as we know - it's science *for
certain - it's mathematics *unquestionably - it's religion
|
Re: Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
On 01/06/2025 22:16, eewiz via
groups.io wrote:
1. Erase the C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9 folder.
Makes no difference to windows because 24.1.9 had already
been removed to allow re-installation of 24.0.12 yesterday.
Remember, today's existing 24.1.9 folder was copied there
yesterday after 24.0.12 was re-installed.
This also shows that an LTspice installation folder can be
copied anywhere just like you would a portable program that has
no installer.
In my case, 24.1.9 ran normally from that copied folder, even
though the windows registry contents now support 24.0.12.
It appears that LTspice actually is a portable program with
an installer to setup only file extensions in the registry.
It appears to require no registry support at runtime.
If you're running from the executable, it make no difference.
If you're running from a shortcut, i.e. the Start Menu, and move the
target file, the shortcut will follow it, which is different from a
symbolic link, which does not follow the target.
If the folder name is unchanged but contains a different LTspice
version, it will also continue to work.
That's because the name of the executable is the same (LTspice.exe)
between all the different versions (17.* - 24.*). Windows doesn't
know which one it's running.
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Re: Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
I'm not sure that it's good to put non-Windows
files in C:/WIN32. I'm pretty sure that Windows 11 would like it
here:?
C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Programs\ADI\LTspice\ltspice.exe Of
course, to keep more than one version, you would need something
like:
C:\Users\User\AppData\Local\Programs\ADI\LTspice2x\ltspice.exe
for each version.
On 2025-06-01 21:48, eewiz via
groups.io wrote:
Hello Donald:
?
If bottles on WINE, are the same as, folders on Windows,
then the answer is yes.
?
My file structure:
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.1
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceIV
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceXVII
?
Each version is installed in it's own folder.
Installing 24.1.9 creates a new folder
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9, and during the installation
process, erases all files in the C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12
folder which is the current Windows registry holder.
If 24.1.9 interrogates the registry to determine what the
current installed version is, it finds
"C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12.
The 24.1.9 installer does not erase
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.1 nor C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceXVII,
etc...
It only erases the current registry holder which is
version 24.0.12.
?
All for now
?
Sent:?Sunday, June
01, 2025 at 4:24 PM
From:?"Donald H Locker via groups.io"
<dhlocker@...>
To:? [email protected]
Subject:?Re: [LTspice] Installing 24.1.9 Removed
My 24.0.12
Speaking of LTspice on WINE - do you use separate
"bottles" for each installation, or are they all in
the same bottle?
Donald.
On 6/1/25 08:35, Tony
Casey via groups.io wrote:
On 01/06/2025 11:05,
Andy I via groups.io wrote:
There might be problems if it does that.? I
don't know, but I'm suggesting that there may
have been a good reason for adding that check.
?
Previously, it was not an issue and you could
install multiple versions of LTspice on the same
PC, even installing them in random order.? But
users, and LTspice itself, need to be careful
about things like preserving the libraries, and
I suspect that was the reason for Analog Devices
to add code to check that it is not updating a
newer version with an older one.? Maybe they
want to reduce the chances of really screwing up
your libraries.? (I don't know - I'm only
guessing here.)
I've had no problems installing 3 different version
of LTspice on my computer. (I used to keep LTspiceIV
as well, but gave up on that, because it was too
different, and very few folk can still have that
installed, except for our friend in Syria, who
cannot access any more recent versions.) As you
know, I'm primarily a Linux user, but Wine supports
a registry of sorts, too, that is broadly compatible
with the Windows one insofar as necessary for
Windows programs to function correctly. When I
"upgrade" the 24.1.x version, I always download and
install the new one, so I always have the installer
program for the future, as the problem with always
upgrading in situ is that you cannot easily go back
to any particular setting you had in the past. I
know that, technically, Windows provides this
feature with the "System Restore Points", but that
never seems to quite do what you want it to.
The uninstall/removal issue only happens if you try
install the new version into the same folder the old
version is located, in my experience. In which case,
the installation program tells you the folder
already exists, and asks if you want to install
there anyway.
?
--
Regards,
Tony
--
Best wishes John Woodgate RAYLEIGH Essex OOO-Own Opinions Only
If something is true: * as far as we know - it's science *for
certain - it's mathematics *unquestionably - it's religion
|
Re: Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
Hello Donald:
?
If bottles on WINE, are the same as, folders on Windows, then the answer is yes.
?
My file structure:
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.1
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceIV
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceXVII
?
Each version is installed in it's own folder.
Installing 24.1.9 creates a new folder C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9, and during the installation process, erases all files in the C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12 folder which is the current Windows registry holder.
If 24.1.9 interrogates the registry to determine what the current installed version is, it finds "C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12.
The 24.1.9 installer does not erase C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.1 nor C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceXVII, etc...
It only erases the current registry holder which is version 24.0.12.
?
All for now
?
Sent:?Sunday, June 01, 2025 at 4:24 PM
From:?"Donald H Locker via groups.io" <dhlocker@...>
To:[email protected]
Subject:?Re: [LTspice] Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
Speaking of LTspice on WINE - do you use separate "bottles" for each installation, or are they all in the same bottle?
Donald.
On 6/1/25 08:35, Tony Casey via groups.io wrote:
On 01/06/2025 11:05, Andy I via groups.io wrote:
There might be problems if it does that.? I don't know, but I'm suggesting that there may have been a good reason for adding that check.
?
Previously, it was not an issue and you could install multiple versions of LTspice on the same PC, even installing them in random order.? But users, and LTspice itself, need to be careful about things like preserving the libraries, and I suspect that was the reason for Analog Devices to add code to check that it is not updating a newer version with an older one.? Maybe they want to reduce the chances of really screwing up your libraries.? (I don't know - I'm only guessing here.)
I've had no problems installing 3 different version of LTspice on my computer. (I used to keep LTspiceIV as well, but gave up on that, because it was too different, and very few folk can still have that installed, except for our friend in Syria, who cannot access any more recent versions.) As you know, I'm primarily a Linux user, but Wine supports a registry of sorts, too, that is broadly compatible with the Windows one insofar as necessary for Windows programs to function correctly. When I "upgrade" the 24.1.x version, I always download and install the new one, so I always have the installer program for the future, as the problem with always upgrading in situ is that you cannot easily go back to any particular setting you had in the past. I know that, technically, Windows provides this feature with the "System Restore Points", but that never seems to quite do what you want it to.
The uninstall/removal issue only happens if you try install the new version into the same folder the old version is located, in my experience. In which case, the installation program tells you the folder already exists, and asks if you want to install there anyway.
?
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Re: Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
All in the same bottle: ~/.LTCAD. I also have LTspice helper
programs installed there, e.g. s2spice. although at one time, I did
compile a native Linux version of that.
--
Regards,
Tony
On 01/06/2025 22:24, Donald H Locker
via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Speaking of LTspice on WINE - do you use separate "bottles" for
each installation, or are they all in the same bottle?
Donald.
|
Re: Diode charactoristic differences between modelling tools
Hello All:
?
Below Tony wrote:
?
"BTW, the Allaboutcircuits calculator is invalid for Schottky (not Schockley) diodes"
?
Shockley developed the silicon diode equation;
I = IS (e(eV/kT) - 1), where IS is the reverse saturation current, e is the electron charge, V is the diode voltage, k is Boltzmann's constant, and T is the absolute temperature.
Not to be confused with the Schottky metal contact diode that is not the subject of the "Shockley Diode Equation."
A Shockley diode is a four-layer PNPN diode, also known as a thyristor, which is also not the subject of the "Shockley Diode Equation."
?
Sent:?Sunday, June 01, 2025 at 10:47 AM
From:?"Tony Casey via groups.io" <antoniustrevorum@...>
To:[email protected]
Subject:?Re: [LTspice] Diode charactoristic differences between modelling tools
On 01/06/2025 16:23, Andrew Lohmann via groups.io wrote:
At the very small current, I would expect a diode to have low forward voltage drop.? My moving coil multimeter for example the lowest AC voltage range is 1.5V and an impedance of 10K/V (100uA) and for that to work a diode bridge rectifier forward voltage drop must be much less than 1.5V
The AC scale for that range looks linear, like all the other voltage and current ranges.? But LTspice diodes do not behave like this, and neither do other spice tools such as SiMetrix.? ?When I did arithmetic I used square law, rather than e which is wrong but shows me it should work.? So here are two web based modelling tools they give about the same result for a 200mA, silicone diode Vforward = 10uV at 78uA at 25'C
?
?
But LTspice shows a much higher Vforward of 125mV for a 30mA Shockley diode at 100uA and 450mV for a 200mA silicon diode at 10uA.?
My multimeter is different to an AVO and does not use a transformer.
The figures you give are meaningless without the values that used. I checked the Allaboutcircuits calculator with:
Id = 75uA
Is = 1e-14A
n = 1
T = 300
.. and the voltage, Vd was 588mV.
What values were you using?
BTW, the Allaboutcircuits calculator is invalid for Schottky (not Schockley) diodes - it states: "This calculator solves for any single missing value in the ideal diode I-V equation for a forward-biased PN-junction diode." Schottky diodes are not PN junction diodes.
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Re: Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
Speaking of LTspice on WINE - do you use separate "bottles" for
each installation, or are they all in the same bottle?
Donald.
On 6/1/25 08:35, Tony Casey via
groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 01/06/2025 11:05, Andy I via
groups.io wrote:
There might be problems if it does that.? I don't know, but
I'm suggesting that there may have been a good reason for
adding that check.
?
Previously, it was not an issue and you could install
multiple versions of LTspice on the same PC, even installing
them in random order.? But users, and LTspice itself, need to
be careful about things like preserving the libraries, and I
suspect that was the reason for Analog Devices to add code to
check that it is not updating a newer version with an older
one.? Maybe they want to reduce the chances of really screwing
up your libraries.? (I don't know - I'm only guessing here.)
I've had no problems installing 3 different version of LTspice on
my computer. (I used to keep LTspiceIV as well, but gave up on
that, because it was too different, and very few folk can still
have that installed, except for our friend in Syria, who cannot
access any more recent versions.) As you know, I'm primarily a
Linux user, but Wine supports a registry of sorts, too, that is
broadly compatible with the Windows one insofar as necessary for
Windows programs to function correctly. When I "upgrade" the
24.1.x version, I always download and install the new one, so I
always have the installer program for the future, as the problem
with always upgrading in situ is that you cannot easily go back to
any particular setting you had in the past. I know that,
technically, Windows provides this feature with the "System
Restore Points", but that never seems to quite do what you want it
to.
The uninstall/removal issue only happens if you try install the
new version into the same folder the old version is located, in my
experience. In which case, the installation program tells you the
folder already exists, and asks if you want to install there
anyway.
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Re: Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
Hello All,
?
It's now tomorrow and I performed a 24.1.9 installation again.
?
1. Erase the C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9 folder.
Makes no difference to windows because 24.1.9 had already been removed to allow re-installation of 24.0.12 yesterday.
Remember, today's existing 24.1.9 folder was copied there yesterday after 24.0.12 was re-installed.
This also shows that an LTspice installation folder can be copied anywhere just like you would a portable program that has no installer.
In my case, 24.1.9 ran normally from that copied folder, even though the windows registry contents now support 24.0.12.
It appears that LTspice actually is a portable program with an installer to setup only file extensions in the registry.
It appears to require no registry support at runtime.
?
2. Dbl-click a schematic which starts 24.0.12 and start it simulating.
?
3. Run the 24.1.9 installer up to the destination dialog.
The installer presents 24.0.12's existing installation location of C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12.
Overtype the 0.12, changing it to 1.9, creating the new installation location of C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9 and cllck OK.
?
4. The 24.1.9 installer now runs until a "File in use" dialog appears.
The dialog states that a "SPICE Simulator w/ Schematic Capture" has files in use that the installer needs to continue.
?
5. Bring up the running 24.0.12, stop the simulation and close 24.0.12.
?
6. Click OK and the 24.1.9 installer to continues.
?
7. The 24.1.9 installation is complete.
?
8. The C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12 folder is now empty and the 24.0.12 shortcut on the desktop is blank.
The 24.1.9 installer erased all file contents from the C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12 folder.
It left behind one folder that I put there.
In each LTspice program folder I put an additional folder to identify which LTspice version it is.
For example, in my C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12 folder I add an empty folder named "_v24.0.12".
The underscore puts that folder at the top of the file list, making it easy to determine which one of the LTspice program folders I may be in at that moment.
?
9. Copy the C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9 folder to a backup area.
?
10. Remove version 24.1.9, clearing the registry, to allow 24.0.12 to be re-installed.
?
11. Re-install version 24.0.12 to C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12.
?
12. Copy the C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9 folder from the backup area, back to the C:\WIN32\LTC folder.
Now the registry points all file extensions to 24.0.12 and 24.1.9 will also run if started directly.
?
13. Run 24.0.12 and do a Component Update to get rid of the duplicate BJT's in the standard.bjt file that comes with 24.0.12.
?
Thirteen steps later I can use 24.0.12 every day and also experiment with 24.1.9.
?
For the less intrepid, here are the condensed results of running my simulation on 24.0.12 vs. 24.1.9 brought to the top.
?
My project contains:
A's 42
B's 21
C's 105
D's 93
E's 23
F's 9
G's 16
H's 3
I's 23
L's 35
M's 7
Q's 153
R's 269
S's 21
V's 41
tot: 861
?
The results are:
24.0.12 Normal Solver - 2137 DefCon's to finish in Total elapsed time: 1556.499 seconds.
24.0.12 Alternate Solver - No DefCon's to finish in Total elapsed time: 3046.351 seconds.
24.1.9 Normal Solver - Many Source Step's to FAIL with "Time step too small" in Total elapsed time: 52.671 seconds.
24.1.9 Alternate Solver - 115,007 Simulation tolerance relaxed Warnings to FAIL stalled with Total elapsed time: 6025.053 seconds.
?
Sent:?Sunday, June 01, 2025 at 5:39 AM
From:?"eewiz via groups.io" <eewiz@...>
To:[email protected]
Subject:?Re: [LTspice] Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
Hello Tony:
?
Yes I have each version in a different folder.
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.1
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceIV
C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspiceXVII
?
Yesterday, "C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9" did not exist and "C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12" was doing simulations.
Today, after installing "C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.1.9" the "C:\WIN32\LTC\LTspice24.0.12" folder was empty as described below.
I will repeat the entire 24.1.9 installation maneuver tomorrow to see if the the 24.0.12 folder gets erased again.
?
More to come...
?
I found that the 4 duplicate BJT's reentered the situation when I reinstalled 24.0.12 after it was erased by installing 24.1.9.
The standard.bjt file with the duplicated BJT's can be found in the lib.zip file that comes with 24.0.12.
?
All for now
?
?
Sent:?Sunday, June 01, 2025 at 4:56 AM
From:?"Tony Casey via groups.io" <antoniustrevorum@...>
To:[email protected]
Subject:?Re: [LTspice] Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
On 01/06/2025 04:17, eewiz via groups.io wrote:
I just installed 24.1.9 and the 24.1.9 installer removed my installation of 24.0.12.
I was running a sim in 24.0.12 when the 24.1.9 installer said that it needed to close other programs because they were using files required by the 24.1.9 installer.
So I stopped my sim, closed 24.0.12 and continued the 24.1.9 installation.
On completion I saw that my 24.0.12 desktop shortcut is now blank and the 24.0.12 program folder is now empty, WTF!
?
17.1.15 sits in a folder right next to the now empty 24.0.12.
The 24.1.9 installer didn't deem to erase it, 17.1.15 still works.
?
Now I have to decide to restore 24.0.12 from a backup which would leave all of the registry's default file settings pointing to 24.1.9.
Or, reinstall 24.0.12 to restore the default file pointers to point to 24.0.12.
If you wanted to retain 24.0.12, did you change the installation folder to be a non-default location during the actual installation process? I have 17.1.15, 24.0.12 and 24.1.9 all installed alongside each other. All were installed to different folders, e.g.:
C:\Program Files\ADI\<CustomFolderName>\
I have never had any conflict. I also have all three versions sharing libraries and the plots.def. 24.0.12 and 24.1.x also share the LTspice.ini file. I kept the 17.1.15 inifile separate, as quite a few settings are different. I have three separate desktop shortcuts that call three separate batch files that keep track any changes to the inifiles so that if things go wrong between any of the versions, I have three separate backup inifiles. I use LTspice running in Wine on Linux, but exactly the same can be done running directly in Windows. I don't rely on registry settings for opening files from Explorer by double-clicking, so that aspect doesn't affect me. I tend to drag'n'drop files into LTspice as the means of opening them, or from the Recent Files list.
I have generally found that despite my whinging about changes (mainly about the stricter syntax checking that can break backward compatibility), that 24.1.x is somewhat faster for many things and converges better for some circuits, but YMMV. Bear in mind that you might need different SPICE settings. Indeed the defaults are different.
?
--
Regards,
Tony
?
|
Re: Diode charactoristic differences between modelling tools
On 01/06/2025 16:23, Andrew Lohmann via
groups.io wrote:
The AC scale
for that range looks linear, like all the other voltage and
current ranges.? But LTspice diodes do not behave like this, and
neither do other spice tools such as SiMetrix.? ?When I did
arithmetic I used square law, rather than e which is wrong but
shows me it should work.? So here are two web based modelling
tools they give about the same result for a 200mA, silicone diode
Vforward = 10uV at 78uA at 25'C
?
But
LTspice shows a much higher Vforward of 125mV for a 30mA
Shockley diode at 100uA and 450mV for a 200mA silicon diode at
10uA.?
I think I worked out what you must have done. To get Vd=10μ with Id
= 78μA and T=300K:
Is = 201.512mA.
Is is NOT the rated diode current! That is completely irrelevant.
Look in Help > LTspice > LTspice? > Circuit Elements >
D. Diode for a definition of the parameters and the default values.
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Re: Diode charactoristic differences between modelling tools
On 01/06/2025 17:12, Tony Casey via
groups.io wrote:
For
comparison, at 75uA, a 1N914 gave 467mV in LTspice. But the values
for 1N914 in the LTspice model are:
Is = 2.95e-9A
N = 1.752
Putting those values into the Allaboutcircuits calculator gave
466mV. I wouldn't complain about 1mV difference!
Sorry I typed the wrong value, should be:
Is = 2.52e-9A
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Re: Diode charactoristic differences between modelling tools
On 01/06/2025 16:47, Tony Casey via
groups.io wrote:
The
figures you give are meaningless without the values that used. I
checked the Allaboutcircuits calculator with:
Id = 75uA
Is = 1e-14A
n = 1
T = 300
.. and the voltage, Vd was 588mV.
What values were you using?
BTW, the Allaboutcircuits calculator is invalid for Schottky (not
Schockley) diodes - it states: "This calculator solves for any
single missing value in the ideal diode I-V equation for a
forward-biased PN-junction diode." Schottky diodes are not PN
junction diodes.
For comparison, at 75uA, a 1N914 gave 467mV in LTspice. But the
values for 1N914 in the LTspice model are:
Is = 2.95e-9A
N = 1.752
Putting those values into the Allaboutcircuits calculator gave
466mV. I wouldn't complain about 1mV difference!
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Re: Diode charactoristic differences between modelling tools
On 01/06/2025 16:23, Andrew Lohmann via
groups.io wrote:
At the very
small current, I would expect a diode to have low forward voltage
drop.? My moving coil multimeter for example the lowest AC voltage
range is 1.5V and an impedance of 10K/V (100uA) and for that to
work a diode bridge rectifier forward voltage drop must be much
less than 1.5V
The AC scale for that range looks linear, like all the other
voltage and current ranges.? But LTspice diodes do not behave like
this, and neither do other spice tools such as SiMetrix.? ?When I
did arithmetic I used square law, rather than e which is wrong but
shows me it should work.? So here are two web based modelling
tools they give about the same result for a 200mA, silicone diode
Vforward = 10uV at 78uA at 25'C
?
But
LTspice shows a much higher Vforward of 125mV for a 30mA
Shockley diode at 100uA and 450mV for a 200mA silicon diode at
10uA.?
My multimeter is different to an AVO and does not use a
transformer.
The figures you give are meaningless without the values that used. I
checked the Allaboutcircuits calculator with:
Id = 75uA
Is = 1e-14A
n = 1
T = 300
.. and the voltage, Vd was 588mV.
What values were you using?
BTW, the Allaboutcircuits calculator is invalid for Schottky (not
Schockley) diodes - it states: "This calculator solves for any
single missing value in the ideal diode I-V equation for a
forward-biased PN-junction diode." Schottky diodes are not PN
junction diodes.
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Diode charactoristic differences between modelling tools
At the very small current, I would expect a diode to have low forward voltage drop.? My moving coil multimeter for example the lowest AC voltage range is 1.5V and an impedance of 10K/V (100uA) and for that to work a diode bridge rectifier forward voltage drop must be much less than 1.5V The AC scale for that range looks linear, like all the other voltage and current ranges.? But LTspice diodes do not behave like this, and neither do other spice tools such as SiMetrix.? ?When I did arithmetic I used square law, rather than e which is wrong but shows me it should work.? So here are two web based modelling tools they give about the same result for a 200mA, silicone diode Vforward = 10uV at 78uA at 25'C
?
But LTspice shows a much higher Vforward of 125mV for a 30mA Shockley diode at 100uA and 450mV for a 200mA silicon diode at 10uA.?
My multimeter is different to an AVO and does not use a transformer.
?
?
?
|
Re: Using exported gate signals from PLECS
On 01/06/2025 13:32, Pedro A via
groups.io wrote:
What's the point in coming here and asking for help,
then rejecting the help you're offered without even trying it?
Do you think I didn't try it?
It's called a discussion, I'm not sure you know the concept.
And I've tried it, that's why I was debating that.?
I've also noticed that "help" is not exactly what you are
providing here.
Post and files will be deleted since this discussion was/will
not be helpful for anyone, other than people who are trying to
learn how to write 'LTspice' with the correct caps.
Thanks to all the others.
I know the concept. I've been here many years. I think most people
here would say that I do provide help, or at least try. If you
choose to reject it - seemingly without trying it, that's your
prerogative.
Are you saying that you tried what I suggested and it didn't work?
If you wish, I can upload an example of what I suggested, but I did
mention what I did. I would have done that before, if you had asked,
but you didn't. It seems you misunderstood the context of
"monotonic". Your sequences were monotonic, in time (or at least the
example I quoted, because that's the one I tried), which is what
this statement refers to, even if it doesn't specifically say so.
I actually spent longer looking at your issue than it seems you did
in rejecting my suggestion.
If you're looking for an apology, I'm sorry you took offence.
In case you're wondering who approved the message that you just
sent, given that you unsubscribed from the group 2 days ago, I'm
guilty of that too.
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Re: Installing 24.1.9 Removed My 24.0.12
On 01/06/2025 11:05, Andy I via
groups.io wrote:
There might be problems if it does that.? I don't know, but
I'm suggesting that there may have been a good reason for adding
that check.
?
Previously, it was not an issue and you could install
multiple versions of LTspice on the same PC, even installing
them in random order.? But users, and LTspice itself, need to be
careful about things like preserving the libraries, and I
suspect that was the reason for Analog Devices to add code to
check that it is not updating a newer version with an older
one.? Maybe they want to reduce the chances of really screwing
up your libraries.? (I don't know - I'm only guessing here.)
I've had no problems installing 3 different version of LTspice on my
computer. (I used to keep LTspiceIV as well, but gave up on that,
because it was too different, and very few folk can still have that
installed, except for our friend in Syria, who cannot access any
more recent versions.) As you know, I'm primarily a Linux user, but
Wine supports a registry of sorts, too, that is broadly compatible
with the Windows one insofar as necessary for Windows programs to
function correctly. When I "upgrade" the 24.1.x version, I always
download and install the new one, so I always have the installer
program for the future, as the problem with always upgrading in situ
is that you cannot easily go back to any particular setting you had
in the past. I know that, technically, Windows provides this feature
with the "System Restore Points", but that never seems to quite do
what you want it to.
The uninstall/removal issue only happens if you try install the new
version into the same folder the old version is located, in my
experience. In which case, the installation program tells you the
folder already exists, and asks if you want to install there anyway.
--
Regards,
Tony
|
Re: Using exported gate signals from PLECS
On Thu, May 29, 2025 at 03:11 PM, Tony Casey wrote:
What's the point in coming here and asking for help, then rejecting the help you're offered without even trying it? Do you think I didn't try it?
It's called a discussion, I'm not sure you know the concept. And I've tried it, that's why I was debating that.?
I've also noticed that "help" is not exactly what you are providing here.
Post and files will be deleted since this discussion was/will not be helpful for anyone, other than people who are trying to learn how to write 'LTspice' with the correct caps.
Thanks to all the others.
|
John Woodgate
eewiz
Tony Casey