Re: Directory for custom symbols

开云体育

On 22/05/2025 03:02, Jeff Kayzerman via groups.io wrote:

Thanks Tony, I am indeed talking about a network drive that is mapped to all engineers computers as the "M:" drive. I am not an EE, I am a software dev helping them out with some automation so I don't fully understand how all of this works.

?

Does it make sense to have a top level directory in the M: drive, "LTspice Common" (or something to that extent). Then under that have some folder structure where there is one folder for "models", "symbols", "libraries" etc... and those directories are flat with just files.

?

Then which paths go into which boxes in control panel? Obviously symbols would go into "Symbol Search Path[*]". Libraries goes in "Library Search Path[*]". Models, .dio, anything else all needs to go into the top "User Libraries Directory"? Just guessing here.

?

Since you're an "Software Dev", you'll understand the complications involved when users are creating, sharing, using and updating remote files. For that reason, I suggest you don't use the simple mapped M: drive on all users' machines.

I (mostly) don't have multiple users sharing LTspice libraries etc. and other documents, but I do have multiple machines. For this and other reasons, I use a change control system (Subversion) on my central server, and all other machines have the Subversion client. In this scenario, you don't require mapped network drives, you keep synced copies of the shared resources on each machine. This has the advantage that all (well, nearly all) files are still available if (when) the server isn't available, which otherwise wouldn't be the case, and everyone's work would stop. A perfect case of single point failure.

In that situation, each machine has local copies of "user files" in the locations previously discussed in this thread, and listed in Settings (formerly Control Panel) > Search Paths. So, no wheels need inventing. Machines could be set up to e.g.: "svn update" in the morning and "svn commit" in the evening. (Other change control options are available.)

The other advantage with a change control system, is the built-in capability to easily revert to a previous version if someone messes up any particular file(s), which then causes issues.

I'm sure as a software dev, you're used working this way, but hardware engineers not so much...

--
Regards,
Tony

Re: Directory for custom symbols

#160566

Hello Jeff,

?

The following hierarchy mirrors LTspice's native file hierarchy.

The mirror hierarchy makes browsing LTspice's native files and my user files look similar.

It simplifies finding LTspice's standard.bjt and my user.bjt so they can be compared in a text editor.

?

I set up mine somewhat similar to this:

?

The lib\cmp folder holds the user.??? files only.

The lib\sub folder holds all model files and libraries of model files and must, for now, ramain flat.

The lib\sym folder holds all symbols and has been reported to be hierarchical from LTspice v24.1.8 forward.

?

All for now

eewiz

?

Show quoted text

?

Sent:?Wednesday, May 21, 2025 at 9:02 PM
From:?"Jeff Kayzerman via groups.io" <jkayzerman@...>
To:[email protected]
Subject:?Re: [LTspice] Directory for custom symbols

Thanks Tony, I am indeed talking about a network drive that is mapped to all engineers computers as the "M:" drive. I am not an EE, I am a software dev helping them out with some automation so I don't fully understand how all of this works.

?

Does it make sense to have a top level directory in the M: drive, "LTspice Common" (or something to that extent). Then under that have some folder structure where there is one folder for "models", "symbols", "libraries" etc... and those directories are flat with just files.

?

Then which paths go into which boxes in control panel? Obviously symbols would go into "Symbol Search Path[*]". Libraries goes in "Library Search Path[*]". Models, .dio, anything else all needs to go into the top "User Libraries Directory"? Just guessing here.

?

Thanks

Re: Directory for custom symbols

#160565
Edited

Libraries are Models.? Same thing, but Library implies a few models together in each file.

?

Somewhat separate from that (but not entirely) are the "standard.*" and "user.*" model files (or libraries).? Those are limited to (libraries of) a certain kind of model of specific devices only.? (e.g., transistors and diodes -- whereas other libraries of models can represent complete integrated circuits as well as individual transistors and diodes.? It's a SPICE thing that these differ at all.)

?

Andy

Re: Directory for custom symbols

#160564

Thanks Tony, I am indeed talking about a network drive that is mapped to all engineers computers as the "M:" drive. I am not an EE, I am a software dev helping them out with some automation so I don't fully understand how all of this works.

?

Does it make sense to have a top level directory in the M: drive, "LTspice Common" (or something to that extent). Then under that have some folder structure where there is one folder for "models", "symbols", "libraries" etc... and those directories are flat with just files.

?

Then which paths go into which boxes in control panel? Obviously symbols would go into "Symbol Search Path[*]". Libraries goes in "Library Search Path[*]". Models, .dio, anything else all needs to go into the top "User Libraries Directory"? Just guessing here.

?

Thanks

Re: plotting group delay multiplied by frequency

#160563

On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 01:03 PM, Kendall Castor-Perry wrote:

... (though it was momentarily confusing that the value axis was on the left, with a meaningless phase number on the right, presumably because everything the viewer plots is complex).? ...

As you probably know, you can turn off that right axis, after it has been plotted.? And yes, it is because everything there is technically complex.

?

Andy

?

Re: plotting group delay multiplied by frequency

#160562

Thanks Frank and everyone else who chipped in, sorry to be slow in replying.? In the end I managed to get my head around the issue by plotting phase multiplied by frequency, which works fine (though it was momentarily confusing that the value axis was on the left, with a meaningless phase number on the right, presumably because everything the viewer plots is complex).? As it happens, the insight I was looking to test turned out to be wrong.? I though there might be something useful in a highpass filter which had flat phase*frequency in a working band, but there was not.? It's going to niggle for a while but I have pushed it down the list.? Feature request though - why not support differentiation for more arguments, like phase?? You have to manage this carefully through regions where both im() and re() disappear but hey, just interpolate through those points, I do in my own routines...? thanks again all.

Re: Directory for custom symbols

#160561

Yes, "Simulation Library Search Path" is not recursive. Only the symbol search paths are.

?

Best Regards,

Mathias

?

On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 05:08 PM, eetech00 wrote:

Show quoted text

LTspice 24.1.8, the "Simulation Library Search Path [*]:" doesn't appear to be recursive.

?

I have multiple paths defined for use by multiple computers to use shared libraries on a NAS.

For example,? my "Simulation Library Search Path [*]:" contains multiple paths:

?

.........

S:\ltc\lib\sub\CD4000

S:\ltc\lib\sub\74HC

.........

?

When it was mentioned in this thread that the paths were recursive, I change this to a single path to test:

?

S:\ltc\lib\sub

?

LTspice can no longer find the subcircuit definitions.

?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding its use?

?

?

Re: Directory for custom symbols

#160560

On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 12:43 AM, Mathias Born wrote:

Yes, it is recursive. This was changed precisely to address your use case. Simply update to LTspice 24.1.8. You'll find the help also improved accordingly.

?

Best Regards,
Mathias

?

?

LTspice 24.1.8, the "Simulation Library Search Path [*]:" doesn't appear to be recursive.

?

I have multiple paths defined for use by multiple computers to use shared libraries on a NAS.

For example,? my "Simulation Library Search Path [*]:" contains multiple paths:

?

.........

S:\ltc\lib\sub\CD4000

S:\ltc\lib\sub\74HC

.........

?

When it was mentioned in this thread that the paths were recursive, I change this to a single path to test:

?

S:\ltc\lib\sub

?

LTspice can no longer find the subcircuit definitions.

?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding its use?

?

Re: Tabs in Waveform window

#160559

开云体育

On 21/05/2025 15:56, Andy I via groups.io wrote:

Sorry, I meant to write "File > Save Plot Settings As ...".? It is there but not obvious at first.

?

But the other one to open a new Plot Settings file is missing.

Yes, you're right. It's just the "Open Plot Settings File..." that is missing from the Right-click File menu. However, the Ctrl-O keyboard shortcut does work, provided it hasn't been changed. I can't remember what all the installation default V24 keyboard shortcuts are, but I remember I didn't like some of them, and reverted to my old settings.

--
Regards,
Tony

Re: Tabs in Waveform window

#160558

Sorry, I meant to write "File > Save Plot Settings As ...".? It is there but not obvious at first.

?

But the other one to open a new Plot Settings file is missing.

?

Andy

?

Re: Tabs in Waveform window

#160557
Edited

On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 08:08 AM, Tony Casey wrote:

However, I just realised there is a problem with floating plot windows: when in use, there is no way to access the "Save Plot Settings As..." and the "Open Plot Settings File..." menu options, you can only reload and save one plot settings file. This needs reporting.

That might be partially taken care of already.

?

With the floated plot window, you can right-click in the plot window, then from the pop-up menu, choose File > Save Plot Settings. or File > Save Plot Settings As, or File > Reload Plot Settings.? But there is no choice to Open a different Plot Settings File, as one had from the Plot Settings main menu tab.

?

Andy

?

Re: Tabs in Waveform window

#160556

开云体育

On 21/05/2025 13:18, J.C.A. Dekkers via groups.io wrote:

Thank you too and I am using that feature right now. From one of my previous lives I used a simulator where you can tabulate the output panes, which is quite useful since you can bundle results per subject.

In case you haven't come across it before, you can save any number of plot settings in separate .plt files, that define different plot configurations.

However, I just realised there is a problem with floating plot windows: when in use, there is no way to access the "Save Plot Settings As..." and the "Open Plot Settings File..." menu options, you can only reload and save one plot settings file. This needs reporting.

--
Regards,
Tony

Re: Tabs in Waveform window

#160555

Hi Andy,

?

Thank you too and I am using that feature right now. From one of my previous lives I used a simulator where you can tabulate the output panes, which is quite useful since you can bundle results per subject.

?

Regards,

Jacco

Re: Directory for custom symbols

#160554

On Wed, May 21, 2025 at 06:49 AM, eewiz wrote:

In addition to any symbol/library base folders there are also the standard.??? files.

For example, the standard.bjt file for transistors and standard.dio, .mos, .ind, .cap, .res and .bead files for those other parts.

All of those standard.??? files are just text files.

No, some of them are binary files.? Only the .bjt, .dio, .jft, and .mos ones are text, but those are the ones you are most likely to want to customize.? The others are binary files but can be edited inside of LTspice.

?

Andy

?

Re: Directory for custom symbols

#160553

Jeff

?

In reference to number "2. There is one top level to browse a location called "User libraries directory"" below.

?

There is a "User libraries directory" path entry but that item does not point to those symbol/library team directories asked about.

In addition to any symbol/library base folders there are also the standard.??? files.

For example, the standard.bjt file for transistors and standard.dio, .mos, .ind, .cap, .res and .bead files for those other parts.

All of those standard.??? files are just text files.

You may create empty text files named user.???.

Such as user.bjt, user.dio, user.mos, etc...

Put all of those user.??? files in any one directory, possibly your "TEAM" directory or somewhere deeper.
?

Make that "User libraries directory" path entry point to those user.??? files.

Now, whenever any schematic may call Q1 as a 2NOddBall, LTspice will search it's standard.bjt file first and if 2NOddBall is not found, LTspice will then search your "User libraries directory"\user.bjt file for the 2NOddBall transistor.

?

All for now,

eewiz

Show quoted text

?

Sent:?Wednesday, May 21, 2025 at 3:43 AM
From:?"Mathias Born via groups.io" <mathias.born@...>
To:[email protected]
Subject:?Re: [LTspice] Directory for custom symbols

Yes, it is recursive. This was changed precisely to address your use case. Simply update to LTspice 24.1.8. You'll find the help also improved accordingly.

?

Best Regards,
Mathias

?

On Tue, May 20, 2025 at 10:10 PM, Jeff Kayzerman wrote:

My team wants to have a shared directory where all Electrical Engineers can place their symbols and libraries so others can re-use them instead of re-creating it.

?

This is what the help doc says
Search Paths

This panel allows you to enter additional paths than the default to find symbols and libraries. When entering symbol and library search paths, list each directory on it's own line.

This panel also allows you to edit the directory where user-defined discrete component libraries are located, in the field labeled "Location of user.* component library files."

?

Questions:

1. Is the search recursive? I would imagine since the text says "list each directory on its own line" that it is not recursive. However one of my engineers says he has used a nested directory structure for his symbols for years

2. There is one top level to browse a location called "User libraries directory". Is this what I should be using to point to our shared location? If so, why would I need the "Symbol Search Path" and "Library Search Path" boxes that require one directory per line.

3. If someone edited a standard component will it take precedence if it is defined in one of these paths (presumably the "User libraries directory"?

?

Thank you

Re: Tabs in Waveform window

#160552

Jacco,

?

I am guessing that you already know about changing LTspice's "Default Window Tile Pattern" from the default (Horizontal) to Vertical.? That gives you a full-height plot window, which can be more comfortable for using multiple plot panes - although it does change to half-width (but does not need to stay that way).? ?You might use that as an alternative to "Floating" the plot window as Tony suggested.

?

Floating the plot window is useful even if you have only one monitor, but it is especially handy when you have two.

?

Andy

?

Re: plotting group delay multiplied by frequency

#160551

On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 10:23 AM, Tony Casey wrote:

Unfortunately, you can't plot gd(V(out)) as you can - say ph(V(out)). 
Neither can you plot d(ph(V(out))) - an irritating little box pops up 
telling you: "Ph() differentiation is not supported. Use the waveform 
viewer group delay display feature."I worked around this a long time ago by using complex math, see /g/LTspice/message/10802

Re: Tabs in Waveform window

#160550

Thank you Tony.

?

Regards,

Jacco

Re: Tabs in Waveform window

#160549

开云体育

On 21/05/2025 09:38, J.C.A. Dekkers via groups.io wrote:

Maybe this question has already been asked, but I couldn't find it. Sorry for that.

?

I am looking for multiple tabs/pages in the Waveform (results) window. One can easily add a plot pane above or below but it would be handy if one can add a tab en keep the number of panes limited to a small number. Is such thing possible?

No, this isn't possible. The only other thing you can do is to float the Waveform Viewer window: Right-click > Float Window. This is useful if you have multiple monitors.

--
Regards,
Tony

Re: Universal Comparator

#160548

开云体育

On 21/05/2025 02:48, Andy I via groups.io wrote:

I believe that your UniversalComp has a bug.? The subcircuit's code includes this fragment:

if(V(out)>0,-Hys,Hys)/2

But that compares V(out) against global Ground.? That's not OK.

?

It sort of works (the end result is OK) as long as the two supply voltages straddle 0V = Ground.? But for example, if one were to use V+ = +25V and V- = +20V, then V(out) is always >0 and the if() statement above always chooses -Hys on both rising and falling edges.? And then there is no hysteresis.

?

It even fails in your test schematic just by changing V2 to -1mV (V- = +1mV).

Well spotted! Thanks for looking. I did note this yesterday too, while checking a whole bunch of other things. I have uploaded a fixed model that addresses this.

I also amended the test circuit to address the issue brought to light yesterday about the naming syntax of .MEAS directives in 24.1.x (only alpha-numeric characters allowed). Also fixed .MEAS so propagation delay measurements are consistent regardless whether inverting or non-inverting configuration is used. I also did some benchmarking of other comparator models, for comparison. To get more reliable results, all analyses were .STEPed 100 times and repeated 5 times and averaged. Circuit???????????????????????????? Time/100 ?? Hysteresis??? Trise??? Tfall??? Tpd+??? Tpd- DiffSchmitt (A-device)??????????????? 2.82s?????? 10.0mV????? 22.0ns?? 22.0ns?? 17.3ns? 17.4ns Universal Comparator (BI version)???? 3.12s?????? 10.0mV????? 31.7ns?? 31.7ns?? 11.2ns? 11.2ns LT1720 (LT binary model)????????????? 3.75s?????? 3.5mV?????? 5.0ns??? 4.8ns??? 24.6ns? 11.6ns LM139ATC (Transistor level) RL=39k ?? 4.24s ?? ?? 0.0mV?? ? ? 23.0ns?? 26.0ns?? 10.9ns? 75.0ns LMV7219 (TI transistor level)???????? 5.79s?????? 15.0mV????? 2.1ns??? 2.1ns??? 9.1ns?? 15.8ns Notes:

With the DiffSchmitt device, the Vh parameter needs to be set to 1/2 of the desired total hysteresis, and Vt must be set to zero for asymmetrical power rails.
For the DiffSchmitt, Tau was set to the programmed Delay of the BI source, for comparison.
None of the other models have any programmable parameters.

--
Regards,
Tony