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Re: TPS43061 simulation not working right

 

Upload your .asc file (and any library or model files that are not
included in the LTspice installation) to our Temp directory and we might
be able to help.

If there is more than one file, zip them together (.zip, please; NOT rar
or 7z or gz or ...) No need for any .raw, .net, or any other files. And
definitely no useless image files (.jpg or .png or whatever.) They don't
simulate at all :-)

Donald.
--

On 2021-02-25 7:00 p.m., cedrichirschi.21@... wrote:
I started working on a single series lithium to 15V / 2A Boost converter
based on this design: .
I got this PSpice simulation model from TI themselves here:

After changing the file so that it works like described here:
,
I then got a simulation working:
[![Schematic of working spice simulation][1]][1]
?
Then, after saving everything and doing something else on my computer I
returned to the project and now the results make no sense anymore:
[![Output node of not wokring SMPS][2]][2]
(output of the converter)
[![enter image description here][3]][3]
(switching node of the converter)
[![enter image description here][4]][4]
(EN node of the TPS43061 (has to stay over 1.14V ?!)
?
Where do these weird transients come from? I don't remember changing any
simulation parameters, so they must be the standard ones.
Are there some parameters I could change to omit these strange errors?
The design has been proven to work before.
?
Files: !Ai1WNGQ9wFb7g5hYmVUygiMGqTib5w?e=Ww1wg7
?
Schematic of working circuit:
[![Schematic of wokring SMPS][5]][5]
?
maybe someone can even wokr out these errors:
```
Questionable use of curly braces in "b¡ìe_abmgate yint 0
v={if(v(a)>0.5|v(b)>0.5|v(c)>0.5|v(d)>0.5,0,1)} "
? ? Error: undefined symbol in:
"if([v](a)>0.5|v(b)>0.5|v(c)>0.5|v(d)>0.5,0,1)"
```
?
Cheers
?
? [1]:
? [2]:
? [3]:
? [4]:
? [5]:


TPS43061 simulation not working right

 

I started working on a single series lithium to 15V / 2A Boost converter based on this design: https://www.ti.com/tool/PMP8921.
I got this PSpice simulation model from TI themselves here: https://www.ti.com/lit/zip/slvm706.?
After changing the file so that it works like described here: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/393723,
I then got a simulation working:
[![Schematic of working spice simulation][1]][1]
?
Then, after saving everything and doing something else on my computer I returned to the project and now the results make no sense anymore:
[![Output node of not wokring SMPS][2]][2]
(output of the converter)
[![enter image description here][3]][3]
(switching node of the converter)
[![enter image description here][4]][4]
(EN node of the TPS43061 (has to stay over 1.14V ?!)
?
Where do these weird transients come from? I don't remember changing any simulation parameters, so they must be the standard ones.
Are there some parameters I could change to omit these strange errors?
The design has been proven to work before.
?
Files: https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ai1WNGQ9wFb7g5hYmVUygiMGqTib5w?e=Ww1wg7
?
Schematic of working circuit:
[![Schematic of wokring SMPS][5]][5]
?
maybe someone can even wokr out these errors:
```
Questionable use of curly braces in "b¡ìe_abmgate yint 0 v={if(v(a)>0.5|v(b)>0.5|v(c)>0.5|v(d)>0.5,0,1)} "
? ? Error: undefined symbol in: "if([v](a)>0.5|v(b)>0.5|v(c)>0.5|v(d)>0.5,0,1)"
```
?
Cheers
?
? [1]: https://i.stack.imgur.com/Fd4uZ.png
? [2]: https://i.stack.imgur.com/2IGC3.png
? [3]: https://i.stack.imgur.com/CuV6I.png
? [4]: https://i.stack.imgur.com/fRTpv.png
? [5]: https://i.stack.imgur.com/51xon.png


Re: BLDC Simulation

 

Good point. The OP asked about increasing speed, so I was thinking in
that direction. In the provided models, I didn't see any means to modify
commutation frequency (though I admit to not looking very hard.)

Donald.
--

On 2021-02-25 2:42 p.m., Richard Damon wrote:
On 2/25/21 1:36 PM, Donald H Locker wrote:
Again, increasing the supply voltage (the V source labelled VHV near the
top right of the schematic; it is set to 24V) will increase the motor
speed (and, consequently, the commutation frequency.)

Changing it to 12V will slow the motor to about half speed; increasing
it to 48V will approximately double the motor speed.

It is a brushless DC motor - speed is controlled primarily by the supply
voltage. Commutation frequency is a function of speed; speed is NOT a
function of commutation frequency. The way to change speed is to change
the supply voltage; commutation frequency will then also change.

Did I mention to change the supply voltage (change it from 24V) to
change the motor's speed?

Donald.
Actually, you CAN control speed with commutation frequency, but only
downwards, if you disengage that automatic commutation system normally
being used, you can get very tight speed control by using a fixed
frequency commutation. You do need to monitor the speed the motor is
going because if something does cause it to drop you may need to adjust
the commutation to keep it from loosing lock.


Re: temp vs tnom

Luca Capelli
 

Thank you all.


Re: BLDC Simulation

 

On 2/25/21 1:36 PM, Donald H Locker wrote:
Again, increasing the supply voltage (the V source labelled VHV near the
top right of the schematic; it is set to 24V) will increase the motor
speed (and, consequently, the commutation frequency.)

Changing it to 12V will slow the motor to about half speed; increasing
it to 48V will approximately double the motor speed.

It is a brushless DC motor - speed is controlled primarily by the supply
voltage. Commutation frequency is a function of speed; speed is NOT a
function of commutation frequency. The way to change speed is to change
the supply voltage; commutation frequency will then also change.

Did I mention to change the supply voltage (change it from 24V) to
change the motor's speed?

Donald.
Actually, you CAN control speed with commutation frequency, but only
downwards, if you disengage that automatic commutation system normally
being used, you can get very tight speed control by using a fixed
frequency commutation. You do need to monitor the speed the motor is
going because if something does cause it to drop you may need to adjust
the commutation to keep it from loosing lock.

--
Richard Damon


Re: LTspice fails to launch.

 

I agree. I need to straighten out my onedrive settings

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tony Casey
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2021 11:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [LTspice] LTspice fails to launch.

On 25/02/2021 16:33, garyminor@... wrote:
I think that your question concerning "Documents\LTspiceXVII\lib
directory tree on your C:\ drive" is the key. For some reason it
wanted to use D:\Onedrive\documents, which wasn't there. I added the
drive and folder, and now it launches. I have some work to do to find
out more about why this is happening, but at least I have some idea of
the problem.
Just a word of advice: you should probably avoid running LTspice with your default Schematics folder on Onedrive, if it's in your Documents tree.

Onedrive will attempt to synchronise all your .raw files. This has the potential to max out your internet connection as .raw files can be very large and change all the time.

--
Regards,
Tony


Re: BLDC Simulation

 

Hi Donald,

Agree with you, it performing as expected. Regarding increasing voltage, I have bit knowledge of BLDC motor so I thought lets change supply voltage instead of Back EMF for quick check.?

Kind Regards,
Jayal Pansuriya?

On Thu, 25 Feb 2021 at 18:38, Donald H Locker <dhlocker@...> wrote:
Again, increasing the supply voltage (the V source labelled VHV near the
top right of the schematic; it is set to 24V) will increase the motor
speed (and, consequently, the commutation frequency.)

Changing it to 12V will slow the motor to about half speed; increasing
it to 48V will approximately double the motor speed.

It is a brushless DC motor - speed is controlled primarily by the supply
voltage. Commutation frequency is a function of speed; speed is NOT a
function of commutation frequency. The way to change speed is to change
the supply voltage; commutation frequency will then also change.

Did I mention to change the supply voltage (change it from 24V) to
change the motor's speed?

Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
() no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\ <>

On 2021-02-25 1:02 p.m., Jayal Pansuriya wrote:
> Hi Gents,
>
> Thanks for your comments,
>
> Initially, my thought was motor will spin faster by changing commutation
> frequency. Anyways, I have managed to change motor speed by increasing
> input voltage as it is function of Back EMF.?
>
> Appreciate for your comments.?
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Jayal Pansuriya
>
> On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 23:51, Vlad <imbvlad@...
> <mailto:imbvlad@...>> wrote:
>
>? ? ?Hello Jayal
>
>? ? ?> I am have intermediate skill for simulation, just trying to
>? ? ?simulation BLDC
>? ? ?> motor from LTwiki example(
>? ? ?>
>? ? ?<>).
>? ? ?I managed to
>? ? ?> simulation with default parameters but not sure, if I can change
>? ? ?speed or
>? ? ?> commutation frequency.
>
>? ? ?The speed of the simulation is given (mostly) by the models. As for
>? ? ?the parameters, they are there, as long as you know what you're
>? ? ?changing, nobody is stopping you from testing.
>
>? ? ?--
>? ? ?Vlad







Re: BLDC Simulation

 

Again, increasing the supply voltage (the V source labelled VHV near the
top right of the schematic; it is set to 24V) will increase the motor
speed (and, consequently, the commutation frequency.)

Changing it to 12V will slow the motor to about half speed; increasing
it to 48V will approximately double the motor speed.

It is a brushless DC motor - speed is controlled primarily by the supply
voltage. Commutation frequency is a function of speed; speed is NOT a
function of commutation frequency. The way to change speed is to change
the supply voltage; commutation frequency will then also change.

Did I mention to change the supply voltage (change it from 24V) to
change the motor's speed?

Donald.
--
*Plain Text* email -- it's an accessibility issue
() no proprietary attachments; no html mail
/\ <>

On 2021-02-25 1:02 p.m., Jayal Pansuriya wrote:
Hi Gents,

Thanks for your comments,

Initially, my thought was motor will spin faster by changing commutation
frequency. Anyways, I have managed to change motor speed by increasing
input voltage as it is function of Back EMF.?

Appreciate for your comments.?


Kind Regards,
Jayal Pansuriya

On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 23:51, Vlad <imbvlad@...
<mailto:imbvlad@...>> wrote:

Hello Jayal

> I am have intermediate skill for simulation, just trying to
simulation BLDC
> motor from LTwiki example(
> http://ltwiki.org/files/LTspiceIV/examples/Motors\MotorTest01
<>).
I managed to
> simulation with default parameters but not sure, if I can change
speed or
> commutation frequency.

The speed of the simulation is given (mostly) by the models. As for
the parameters, they are there, as long as you know what you're
changing, nobody is stopping you from testing.

--
Vlad


Re: BLDC Simulation

 

Hi Gents,

Thanks for your comments,

Initially, my thought was motor will spin faster by changing commutation frequency. Anyways, I have managed to change motor speed by increasing input voltage as it is function of Back EMF.?

Appreciate for your comments.?


Kind Regards,
Jayal Pansuriya

On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 23:51, Vlad <imbvlad@...> wrote:
Hello Jayal

> I am have intermediate skill for simulation, just trying to simulation BLDC
> motor from LTwiki example(
> ). I managed to
> simulation with default parameters but not sure, if I can change speed or
> commutation frequency.

The speed of the simulation is given (mostly) by the models. As for
the parameters, they are there, as long as you know what you're
changing, nobody is stopping you from testing.

--
Vlad
______________________
v2:
quite universal analog/digital filter,
power electronics, signal processing,
easy to work with math functions,
digital models, and rants.






Re: temp vs tnom

 

Luca, this is how I see it:

Temp = the temperature used for this simulation.

Tnom = the temperature that was used to create the model.? Mostly, this means semiconductor models (but it also applies to resistors that have a temperature dependency).

So the transistor's model applies without adjustments when Temp = Tnom.? When the simulation's Temp differs from Tnom, then SPICE/LTspice needs to adjust the transistor formulas because of the difference Temp-Tnom, so that the result is correct for the current simulated temperature = Temp.

An analogy is this:? The normal human body temperature is 98.6F or 37C.? This is our Tnom.? Doctors know what is normal biology for a person at that temperature.? Using a thermometer, you can measure a person's actual temperature, which might not be 98.6F or 37C.? The actual temperature is his/her Temp.? It might be the same as Tnom (in which case we hope the person is healthy), or it might differ from Tnom (in which case the person might be unhealthy because his/her internal systems are not working normally).? Doctors know that a person with a higher or lower Temp has things that behave differently, because of that difference, Temp-Tnom.? If Temp>Tnom, they may have a fever.? If Temp<Tnom, they may have hypothermia.

Andy


Re: temp vs tnom

 

Maybe it will help a bit more to think of these in terms of a linear function:

f(x) = tnom + temp*x

tnom will set the initial value for the function, while temp will
determine the slope.

--
Vlad
______________________
ltspicegoodies.ltwiki.org v2:
quite universal analog/digital filter,
power electronics, signal processing,
easy to work with math functions,
digital models, and rants.


Re: temp vs tnom

 

Hello Luca

temp --> Default temperature for circuit element instances that don't
specify temperature.
tnom --> Default temperature at which device parameters were measured for
models that don't specify this temperature.
I've read the difference between those two parameters but I can't understand
their difference. when the first is used, when the other one is used?
If you look in the help under `LTspice > Circuit Elements > R.
Resistor`, you'll see a formula that's based on tnom and temp. That
tells you that tnom is used to modify the default value for the
resistance (or whatever <value> there is), while temp is used to
calculate the device's <value> at a certain temperature.

--
Vlad
______________________
ltspicegoodies.ltwiki.org v2:
quite universal analog/digital filter,
power electronics, signal processing,
easy to work with math functions,
digital models, and rants.


Re: LTspice fails to launch.

 

On 25/02/2021 16:33, garyminor@... wrote:
I think that your question concerning "Documents\LTspiceXVII\lib directory tree on your C:\ drive" is the key. For some reason it wanted to use D:\Onedrive\documents, which wasn't there. I added the drive and folder, and now it launches. I have some work to do to find out more about why this is happening, but at least I have some idea of the problem.
Just a word of advice: you should probably avoid running LTspice with your default Schematics folder on Onedrive, if it's in your Documents tree.

Onedrive will attempt to synchronise all your .raw files. This has the potential to max out your internet connection as .raw files can be very large and change all the time.

--
Regards,
Tony


Re: LTSpice group question

 

On 25/02/2021 17:12, Tony Casey wrote:
To be fair, this isn't a general design question. It's about SPICE defaults and the applicability of the two temperature keywords.
Sorry, I got my threads mixed up. The OP continued his questioning in a separate thread.

--
Regards,
Tony


Re: LTSpice group question

 

On 25/02/2021 16:52, BRUCE108 wrote:
Questions should be about the operations of the LTspice simulator, or with respect to particular designs and applications and their interactions with the simulator. This is not properly a forum for generic design questions.
To be fair, this isn't a general design question. It's about SPICE defaults and the applicability of the two temperature keywords.

--
Regards,
Tony


Re: LTSpice group question

 

Questions should be about the operations of the LTspice simulator, or with respect to particular designs and applications and their interactions with the simulator. This is not properly a forum for generic design questions.


Re: LTspice fails to launch.

 

Andy I,
I think that your question concerning "Documents\LTspiceXVII\lib directory tree on your C:\ drive" is the key. For some reason it wanted to use D:\Onedrive\documents, which wasn't there. I added the drive and folder, and now it launches. I have some work to do to find out more about why this is happening, but at least I have some idea of the problem.

Thanks to all those that responded.


temp vs tnom

Luca Capelli
 

Hi all
temp --> Default temperature for circuit element instances that don't specify temperature.
tnom --> Default temperature at which device parameters were measured for models that don't specify this temperature.
I've read the difference between those two parameters but I can't understand their difference. when the first is used, when the other one is used?
Thanks


Re: LTSpice group question

Luca Capelli
 

ok, thank you.


Re: Change subscription not working

 

Also, I apologize to Michael for thinking that what he did caused him to be unsubscribed.

Andy