Here is one more suggestion, which I'm putting here because it might help everyone.

In Grroups.io, when you see a button to "Leave Group", it means to permanently leave the group = unsubscribe from the group.? Do not click that button unless you really want to unsubscribe from the group.

If you are done for the moment and want to move on to something else, that is NOT the button to click.? You don't need to click anything.

Andy

Tony,?

I agree.

Shame that the current On-Semi data does not provide an I-V plane plot.?

All that said, however, a circle back to small signal data set is still useful and unfortunate in many cases
that will require further measurements.?

开云体育

On 23/02/2021 15:44, alan victor wrote:

While many devices do not have S, they do have other parameter sets, h or y, ?and that requires conversion to S. Finally direct measure of S may be required.?For the case of the 3904, either measure the S directly or use h parameters and convert to S. Some y parameters exist for the 3904 as well and the same process, conversion to S is required. At that point, ?with an available non linear model, the comparison to measured as well converted to S data is needed before one can trust a non linear model.?

Instances exist where no model is available, either linear or non linear. Then measured data is required. Stated previously, beginning with S measured data does provide a gateway to a reasonable first pass approach to a non linear design.

I admire your dedication to S-parameters, but I can't help thinking going via Y-parameters (which are rarely given in modern datasheets) is more work than deriving from scratch a half-decent SPICE model directly from the datasheet. For example, the current On-Semi (was Fairchild) 2N3904 provides almost everything needed except an Ic vs. Vce plot. It even has some H-parameter graphs, but unfortunately magnitude only at 1kHz (except Hfe) , so not that useful.

-- 
Regards,
Tony

Andy,

I'll be glad to share data.

As my time permits I will search for what I have and post. This was done quite some time ago.

Many of the files are on a HP Winchester CS 80? drive which was connected to a workstation and analyzer. So recovery and assembly?
of the data takes some doing.

Have a great day.?

Alan,

So, I guess you are unwilling to part with the 2N3904 data?

Why didn't you just say this?

Andy

Michael, let's take this discussion offline.

Please send further communications to the LTspice+owner email address.

Whatever you keep doing when you login to your account, you need to stop doing that.? Otherwise, I'm going to conclude that your only purpose is to annoy us and you don't deserve to be a member of this group.

Andy

Michael, your Groups.io account has no Bounces.? I guess you are receiving Bounces for another account that you didn't tell us about.

Andy

Ok, changed the password for Preh.de address.
(I am using chrome now, before it was edge or IE)

The Yahoo address is also mine for private use.

The Micron address is not mine and never was.

The *...*@w*...*.de I talked about was my error.
The *...*@p*...*.de was to obfuscate my Preh.de address (what Andy reviled).
So I "only" have 2 addresses.

Michael, stop unsubscribing yourself!

Whatever you are doing on the web, logged in to Groups.io, you are unsubscribing yourself.? Stop doing that!

? ? "I guess I need help from mail admin of Groups.io.
? ? ?What do you think?"

I doubt it.? They probably won't tell you anything we haven't already told you.? Whatever it is that you're doing, you need to stop doing it.? There is line after line of "haubmi1 <M*@*.De> left via web".? The only two ways this can happen are:

(1)? You did it.? Or,
(2)? Someone else knows your password, and logged in as you, and did it.? That's why I said to change your password NOW.

Andy

Michael,

You wrote that your gateway always bounces the first message from unknown mail servers.? IMO, this is a really BAD idea.? But anyway, it shouldn't matter, because by now your gateway knows about Groups.io (you have been receiving their messages for many months), so no more messages would be bounced.

When a message from Groups.io bounces, it registers as a "bounce" and does not unsubscribe you.? Bounces are tracked separately.? I see that you have no "bounce" messages any time in the last several months, so anyway that is not happening.

The changes to your Groups.io account are happening because someone (you?) is logging into your Groups.io account and making changes.

PLEASE DO THIS -->? Login to your Groups.io account now, and CHANGE YOUR PASSWORD ASAP.? Just in case someone else knows your password and is making changes on your behalf.

I guess maybe you have 4 accounts on Groups.io?? At least 3.? I don't know what the other *@*.de one is.? I guess that's the one you use for private email, not the one you're using now.

Andy

On 2/23/21 10:13 AM, haubmi1 via groups.io wrote:

I have seen parts of the logs of our mail gateway.
And I suspect following scenario:

-> from: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Our gateway bounces because unknown sender (but passed after 10
minutes, I see always one message passing through).
-> resend from: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Again bounced, because unknown sender.
-> resend from: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Again bounced, because unknown sender.
-> resend from: _bounce+number+number+number@...
<mailto:[email protected]>
Again bounced, because unknown sender.
-> resend from: _bounce+number+number+number+number@...
<mailto:[email protected]>
Groups.io server gives up, resets subscription to Summary and sends
the unsubscribed message.

I also see some from: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>.

I guess I need help from mail admin of Groups.io.
What do you think?

If as you show, groups.io keeps changing the sending email address, it
WILL have problems with some receiving email systems, at a minimum, it
should retry with the same address that it used the first time, or
'grey-listing' will be a major problem.

The receiving side can help with this by 'white-listing' groups.io and
not grey listing it.

--
Richard Damon

Hi Andy,?

Yes, allows conversion to S. As far as the 3904, the data I have I measured from a variety of manufacturers.?
The conversion from manufactured y or h and a comparison to measured S of the same device in some cases is quite good and in others, not so.

Regards,?
Alan

Michael,

The reason why your subscription is Daily Summary again, is because you unsubscribed and re-subscribed yourself, AFTER Tony made those changes.

Stop doing that!

You are set (again) to receive individual messages.? Don't change anything!? Leave it alone.? Don't touch your account.? Leave it alone.

Andy

I have seen parts of the logs of our mail gateway.
And I suspect following scenario:

-> from: [email protected]
Our gateway bounces because unknown sender (but passed after 10 minutes, I see always one message passing through).
-> resend from: [email protected]
Again bounced, because unknown sender.
-> resend from: [email protected]
Again bounced, because unknown sender.
-> resend from: [email protected]
Again bounced, because unknown sender.
-> resend from: [email protected]
Groups.io server gives up, resets subscription to Summary and sends the unsubscribed message.

I also see some from: [email protected].

I guess I need help from mail admin of Groups.io.
What do you think?

Hello Tony,

thanks for looking.
Its still not working.

When i login with my *..*@p*...*.de account,?I see it was set back to Summary.
I again received the unsubscribed message.

So what you did, had the same effect (fail), as what I can do by changing the subscription.
It always is mysteriously set back to Summary and I receive the message that I have been unsubscribed.
Very annoying and mysterious!

I remember that I had 2 accounts, the business account *…*蔼辫*...*.诲别 and a private mail account *…*蔼测*...*.诲别 (if I remember correctly).
I currently only use the business account. The other was to get urgent answers to mails from at home, which I don't use currently.

I talked to our IT.
They say that our mail gateway is always bouncing the first mail from any previously?unknown mail servers.
After the mail was resend, it would accept it and all mails send afterwards.
That is to prevent Spamers using 1time email addresses.
Did groops.io change their bouncing strategy, so 1 bounc is enough to trigger all that crap?

Cheers Michael

Alan wrote, "... they do have other parameter sets, h or y, ?and that requires conversion to S."

I think you meant to write "and that allows conversion to S."

I think Tony is still interested in the s-parameter data for the 2N3904.? Do you have a pointer to it?? Maybe when you wrote that you "gather" the s-parameters, you were speaking hypothetically?

Andy

On 23/02/2021 15:35, Andy I wrote:

For better or worse, it looks like plotting waveforms with @1 or @2 doesn't work right, but selecting them from the View > Select Steps menu does. Changing the plotwinsize option to make the timesteps smaller helps minimize the appearance of the problem, but it does not actually fix it.

It's strange, I use the @1, @2, etc. notation all the time and I very rarely see artefacts. It's essential when you need to use this feature in waveform arithmetic.

--
Regards,
Tony

While many devices do not have S, they do have other parameter sets, h or y, ?and that requires conversion to S. Finally direct measure of S may be required.?For the case of the 3904, either measure the S directly or use h parameters and convert to S. Some y parameters exist for the 3904 as well and the same process, conversion to S is required. At that point, ?with an available non linear model, the comparison to measured as well converted to S data is needed before one can trust a non linear model.?

Instances exist where no model is available, either linear or non linear. Then measured data is required. Stated previously, beginning with S measured data does provide a gateway to a reasonable first pass approach to a non linear design. ?

Regards,?
Alan?

Vlad wrote, "flat() and gauss() are also affected by the clock seed."

Thanks.? I remember experimenting with it to see if they were also affected, but that was a long time ago.

Andy

Hello Andy

Among the six, I think only mc() can be controlled by the
system clock to make it non-deterministic (if you change that setting in the
Control Panel).

flat() and gauss() are also affected by the clock seed. It has been so
since LTspice IV.

--
Vlad
______________________
ltspicegoodies.ltwiki.org v2:
quite universal analog/digital filter,
power electronics, signal processing,
easy to work with math functions,
digital models, and rants.