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Civilian tragedy Totskoye

Anna Pacewicz All Messages By This Member #55601 Dear group, I hope that you can help me solve a mystery. I have two eye-witness accounts of Poles in the Orenburg oblast in winter 1941. I would like to find out more information about this tragic incident. My father Wladyslaw Pacewicz and also Sybirak Jadwiga Socha (z domu Jablonska, and first marriage surname was Raciborska) both enlisted at Tockoje in the 18th Infantry Regiment, in the 6th Infantry Division. My father enlisted on 1st December 1941. At the end of January 1942 the Division was transferred to Uzbekistan. Both my father, and Jadwiga, recall that a convoy of 23 - 25 wagons containing Polish civilians travelling to the Polish Army in the Winter of 1942 were kept on the sidings for THREE DAYS with the doors shut, with no food and with no fuel for heating. When the NKVD officer finally opened the door to the wagon both my father and Jadwiga saw the frozen, dead bodies of women and children. One woman was holding her baby – they were all frozen and dead. Jadwiga recalls the station was CZKA??W – it was in the Orenburg Oblast (note this has since been re-named Orenburg Station). Jadwiga recalls that she and small group of other Polish soldiers (about 6 - 7) were living near the station. The Polkownik and the small group of Polish soldiers were a sort of "welcoming committee". They were awaiting a trainload of Polish civilians being transported who were due to arrive at CZKA??W. Jadwiga recalls the following names who were with her in the group – they included a female doctor by the name of Dr. Maria Chmurzyna, a female soldier by the name of Kama and a male soldier by the name of Wladek (or Wojtek, but she thinks Wladek – we think my father Wladyslaw Pacewicz) and a Polkownik Gwozdziecki. The group's role was to wait at the station for trainloads of Polish civilians being transported and the Polkownik couldn't understand why days were passing and this particular train had not arrived. The group was waiting to meet the train and organise food to be given out at the station. When the Russian NKVD were asked about the train, they told the Poles that the train had gone through during the night and must have been missed by the waiting Polish soldiers. A few days later, the Polkownik was told (in confidence) by one of the Russians whom he had become friendly with that there was a train that had been re-directed to a siding about 2km before the station at CZKA??W. The Polkownik then made enquiries and, after a while, the train was "found". When the doors to the first wagon were opened by the Polkownik and the male soldiers, Jadwiga heard the Polkownik scream out "Oh my God" (Oj moj Boze). When Jadwiga and the remaining soldiers who were waiting behind him looked in the wagons, they saw a mass of frozen bodies. Jadwiga vividly recalls the first body she saw was a mother holding an infant to her breast, and the mother and infant had signs of charcoal around their mouths. She said the male soldiers then ran from wagon to wagon opening the doors and the same sight of masses of dead bodies greeting them as each of the doors was opened. Jadwiga recalls that the Polkownik officially reported the tragedy to the NKVD and his own superiors and General Anders. Jadwiga recalls the bodies were supposed to have been taken out of the wagons during the next two days. Jadwiga and the small group of Polish soldiers were told not to speak of the incident to anyone else and definitely not to tell anybody what they had seen. Jadwiga said that within two days, the Polkownik called the small group of Polish soldiers to a meeting, told them he had been given tickets for the group by the Russian station worker who had told him about the train being on the siding. The Polkownik told them they all had to escape from CZKA??W quickly as their lives were in danger. He told them that they were to be dressed and ready to escape; they were to wait in the dark near the station till a train that was leaving CZKA??W in the middle of the night was almost due to depart the station at CZKA??W, then on his signal they were to quickly get into a dark wagon. This is how they escaped with their lives. Personally, my father recalled the incident of the frozen women and children who had not been collected in time from the station to me many years ago. It was clearly a suppressed memory and on two occasions he recalled it, crying and distressed. He did not mention anything about "escaping" or their lives being in danger. I spoke to Jadwiga, a 99 year old Sybirak, this week regarding this incident. She still has a very good memory and remembered it vividly and was extremely upset. Her Wall of Names profile is: Jadwiga is convinced that Wladyslaw (my father) was one of the small group of Polish soldiers that she was part of waiting at the station. She says that is the only way he would have known about the mass of dead bodies, and she recalls a Wladek being with her group. Jadwiga's daughter recalls her mother speaking of this tragedy at least 55 years' ago, and on many occasions since then. Is this a story you have heard about? Do you know anything about the incident? Are these Polish civilians, women & children, buried at the Polish cemetery in Totskoye? I am going to contact Wanda in Orenburg, see what I can find in PISM and Hoover amongst Anders papers. How else can I corroborate this incident? Clearly, something happened for two survivors from the same 18th Infantry Regiment to have seen and recalled this event so many years later. By the way, my father died in 1998 in the UK. So the event has been recalled by my father and by Jadwiga separately. Thank you for any help, Anna Pacewicz Sydney
mark_oyun All Messages By This Member #55882 Dear Anna, I find the story quite believable. I dug this up: PDF Document 36 Dr Chmura writing to Lt Col Dr Szarecki of the Polish Army? medical staff report (12 December 1941) complaining that trains were being stopped at "Krasny Gorod" ?a freight terminal 2km from the allocated "Polish Platform" at Orenburg Station. Dr Chmur could be the Dr. Maria Chmurzyna from your post. ------------------ PDF Document 177 8^th May 1942 Zdislaw Zerebecki the regional delegate reports that the Orenburg Station's Army Outpost ?had been "liquidated"… I'm sure he means closed and not the more ominous meaning. This could be the fact that the group had to escape; but I'm speculating here. It could also be that the soldiers themselves were sent south for the transport out of the USSR. ?The office closed on the 8^th April 1942. Zerebecki complains how difficult it is to maintain the station as a transit centre without them. ------------------ I can find no reference to the incident in this file, but it is something worth pursuing. ?It is puzzling that not a word is mentioned of this in the reports. Cover-up? Conspiracy? Best regards, Mark Ostrowski ? toggle quoted message Show quoted text --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "annapacewicz" wrote: > > Dear group, > > I hope that you can help me solve a mystery. > > I have two eye-witness accounts of Poles in the Orenburg oblast in winter 1941. I would like to find out more information about this tragic incident. > > My father Wladyslaw Pacewicz and also Sybirak Jadwiga Socha (z domu Jablonska, and first marriage surname was Raciborska) both enlisted at Tockoje in the 18th Infantry Regiment, in the 6th Infantry Division. My father enlisted on 1st December 1941. At the end of January 1942 the Division was transferred to Uzbekistan. > > Both my father, and Jadwiga, recall that a convoy of 23 - 25 wagons containing Polish civilians travelling to the Polish Army in the Winter of 1942 were kept on the sidings for THREE DAYS with the doors shut, with no food and with no fuel for heating. When the NKVD officer finally opened the door to the wagon both my father and Jadwiga saw the frozen, dead bodies of women and children. One woman was holding her baby – they were all frozen and dead. > > Jadwiga recalls the station was CZKA??W – it was in the Orenburg Oblast (note this has since been re-named Orenburg Station). > Jadwiga recalls that she and small group of other Polish soldiers (about 6 - 7) were living near the station. The Polkownik and the small group of Polish soldiers were a sort of "welcoming committee". They were awaiting a trainload of Polish civilians being transported who were due to arrive at CZKA??W. > > Jadwiga recalls the following names who were with her in the group – they included a female doctor by the name of Dr. Maria Chmurzyna, a female soldier by the name of Kama and a male soldier by the name of Wladek (or Wojtek, but she thinks Wladek – we think my father Wladyslaw Pacewicz) and a Polkownik Gwozdziecki. > > The group's role was to wait at the station for trainloads of Polish civilians being transported and the Polkownik couldn't understand why days were passing and this particular train had not arrived. The group was waiting to meet the train and organise food to be given out at the station. When the Russian NKVD were asked about the train, they told the Poles that the train had gone through during the night and must have been missed by the waiting Polish soldiers. > > A few days later, the Polkownik was told (in confidence) by one of the Russians whom he had become friendly with that there was a train that had been re-directed to a siding about 2km before the station at CZKA??W. The Polkownik then made enquiries and, after a while, the train was "found". > > When the doors to the first wagon were opened by the Polkownik and the male soldiers, Jadwiga heard the Polkownik scream out "Oh my God" (Oj moj Boze). When Jadwiga and the remaining soldiers who were waiting behind him looked in the wagons, they saw a mass of frozen bodies. > > Jadwiga vividly recalls the first body she saw was a mother holding an infant to her breast, and the mother and infant had signs of charcoal around their mouths. She said the male soldiers then ran from wagon to wagon opening the doors and the same sight of masses of dead bodies greeting them as each of the doors was opened. > > Jadwiga recalls that the Polkownik officially reported the tragedy to the NKVD and his own superiors and General Anders. Jadwiga recalls the bodies were supposed to have been taken out of the wagons during the next two days. > > Jadwiga and the small group of Polish soldiers were told not to speak of the incident to anyone else and definitely not to tell anybody what they had seen. Jadwiga said that within two days, the Polkownik called the small group of Polish soldiers to a meeting, told them he had been given tickets for the group by the Russian station worker who had told him about the train being on the siding. The Polkownik told them they all had to escape from CZKA??W quickly as their lives were in danger. He told them that they were to be dressed and ready to escape; they were to wait in the dark near the station till a train that was leaving CZKA??W in the middle of the night was almost due to depart the station at CZKA??W, then on his signal they were to quickly get into a dark wagon. This is how they escaped with their lives. > > Personally, my father recalled the incident of the frozen women and children who had not been collected in time from the station to me many years ago. It was clearly a suppressed memory and on two occasions he recalled it, crying and distressed. He did not mention anything about "escaping" or their lives being in danger. > > I spoke to Jadwiga, a 99 year old Sybirak, this week regarding this incident. She still has a very good memory and remembered it vividly and was extremely upset. > > Her Wall of Names profile is: http://kresy-siberia.org/won/?page_id=19&lang=en&text=Socha&id=87835 > > Jadwiga is convinced that Wladyslaw (my father) was one of the small group of Polish soldiers that she was part of waiting at the station. She says that is the only way he would have known about the mass of dead bodies, and she recalls a Wladek being with her group. > > Jadwiga's daughter recalls her mother speaking of this tragedy at least 55 years' ago, and on many occasions since then. > > Is this a story you have heard about? Do you know anything about the incident? Are these Polish civilians, women & children, buried at the Polish cemetery in Totskoye? I am going to contact Wanda in Orenburg, see what I can find in PISM and Hoover amongst Anders papers. How else can I corroborate this incident? > > Clearly, something happened for two survivors from the same 18th Infantry Regiment to have seen and recalled this event so many years later. By the way, my father died in 1998 in the UK. So the event has been recalled by my father and by Jadwiga separately. > > Thank you for any help, > > Anna Pacewicz > Sydney >
Anna Pacewicz All Messages By This Member #55884 Dear Mark Ah it's great to have you back on the forum! What an amazing find - this is the first tangible piece of information I have found to connect the memories of Jadwiga Socha and my father. I have sent the link to Jadwiga's daughter, Elizabeth, who is helping me with this. The Director of the Hoover Archives is assisting in a search and IPN have promised to look into it. I have not had any luck contacting Wanda Selivanovska in Orenburg so I have just sent another email to her. But this document from PISM is a wonderful start. Question for you, if I may - as far as I am aware not all of the documents at PISM are digitalised, just a selection. Would it be worth spending a couple of days in the reading room to see what else might be there. Or do you suppose that this document is the extent of the official documentation from the Orenburg district in this time period? I don't speak Polish but I could organise for somebody to help me. Many thanks again. Not speaking Polish I would never have unearthed that document online. Best regards Anna Pacewicz Sydney toggle quoted message Show quoted text --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Mark and Oyun" <mark_oyun@...> wrote: Dear Anna, I find the story quite believable. I dug this up: <> PDF Document 36 Dr Chmura writing to Lt Col Dr Szarecki of the Polish Army medical staff report (12 December 1941) complaining that trains were being stopped at "Krasny Gorod" a freight terminal 2km from the allocated "Polish Platform" at Orenburg Station. Dr Chmur could be the Dr. Maria Chmurzyna from your post. ------------------ PDF Document 177 8th May 1942 Zdislaw Zerebecki the regional delegate reports that the Orenburg Station's Army Outpost had been "liquidated"… I'm sure he means closed and not the more ominous meaning. This could be the fact that the group had to escape; but I'm speculating here. It could also be that the soldiers themselves were sent south for the transport out of the USSR. The office closed on the 8th April 1942. Zerebecki complains how difficult it is to maintain the station as a transit centre without them. ------------------ I can find no reference to the incident in this file, but it is something worth pursuing. It is puzzling that not a word is mentioned of this in the reports. Cover-up? Conspiracy? Best regards, Mark Ostrowski --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "annapacewicz" wrote: Dear group, I hope that you can help me solve a mystery. I have two eye-witness accounts of Poles in the Orenburg oblast in winter 1941. I would like to find out more information about this tragic incident. My father Wladyslaw Pacewicz and also Sybirak Jadwiga Socha (z domu Jablonska, and first marriage surname was Raciborska) both enlisted at Tockoje in the 18th Infantry Regiment, in the 6th Infantry Division. My father enlisted on 1st December 1941. At the end of January 1942 the Division was transferred to Uzbekistan. Both my father, and Jadwiga, recall that a convoy of 23 - 25 wagons containing Polish civilians travelling to the Polish Army in the Winter of 1942 were kept on the sidings for THREE DAYS with the doors shut, with no food and with no fuel for heating. When the NKVD officer finally opened the door to the wagon both my father and Jadwiga saw the frozen, dead bodies of women and children. One woman was holding her baby – they were all frozen and dead. Jadwiga recalls the station was CZKA??W – it was in the Orenburg Oblast (note this has since been re-named Orenburg Station). Jadwiga recalls that she and small group of other Polish soldiers (about 6 - 7) were living near the station. The Polkownik and the small group of Polish soldiers were a sort of "welcoming committee". They were awaiting a trainload of Polish civilians being transported who were due to arrive at CZKA??W. Jadwiga recalls the following names who were with her in the group – they included a female doctor by the name of Dr. Maria Chmurzyna, a female soldier by the name of Kama and a male soldier by the name of Wladek (or Wojtek, but she thinks Wladek – we think my father Wladyslaw Pacewicz) and a Polkownik Gwozdziecki. The group's role was to wait at the station for trainloads of Polish civilians being transported and the Polkownik couldn't understand why days were passing and this particular train had not arrived. The group was waiting to meet the train and organise food to be given out at the station. When the Russian NKVD were asked about the train, they told the Poles that the train had gone through during the night and must have been missed by the waiting Polish soldiers. A few days later, the Polkownik was told (in confidence) by one of the Russians whom he had become friendly with that there was a train that had been re-directed to a siding about 2km before the station at CZKA??W. The Polkownik then made enquiries and, after a while, the train was "found". When the doors to the first wagon were opened by the Polkownik and the male soldiers, Jadwiga heard the Polkownik scream out "Oh my God" (Oj moj Boze). When Jadwiga and the remaining soldiers who were waiting behind him looked in the wagons, they saw a mass of frozen bodies. Jadwiga vividly recalls the first body she saw was a mother holding an infant to her breast, and the mother and infant had signs of charcoal around their mouths. She said the male soldiers then ran from wagon to wagon opening the doors and the same sight of masses of dead bodies greeting them as each of the doors was opened. Jadwiga recalls that the Polkownik officially reported the tragedy to the NKVD and his own superiors and General Anders. Jadwiga recalls the bodies were supposed to have been taken out of the wagons during the next two days. Jadwiga and the small group of Polish soldiers were told not to speak of the incident to anyone else and definitely not to tell anybody what they had seen. Jadwiga said that within two days, the Polkownik called the small group of Polish soldiers to a meeting, told them he had been given tickets for the group by the Russian station worker who had told him about the train being on the siding. The Polkownik told them they all had to escape from CZKA??W quickly as their lives were in danger. He told them that they were to be dressed and ready to escape; they were to wait in the dark near the station till a train that was leaving CZKA??W in the middle of the night was almost due to depart the station at CZKA??W, then on his signal they were to quickly get into a dark wagon. This is how they escaped with their lives. Personally, my father recalled the incident of the frozen women and children who had not been collected in time from the station to me many years ago. It was clearly a suppressed memory and on two occasions he recalled it, crying and distressed. He did not mention anything about "escaping" or their lives being in danger. I spoke to Jadwiga, a 99 year old Sybirak, this week regarding this incident. She still has a very good memory and remembered it vividly and was extremely upset. Her Wall of Names profile is: Jadwiga is convinced that Wladyslaw (my father) was one of the small group of Polish soldiers that she was part of waiting at the station. She says that is the only way he would have known about the mass of dead bodies, and she recalls a Wladek being with her group. Jadwiga's daughter recalls her mother speaking of this tragedy at least 55 years' ago, and on many occasions since then. Is this a story you have heard about? Do you know anything about the incident? Are these Polish civilians, women & children, buried at the Polish cemetery in Totskoye? I am going to contact Wanda in Orenburg, see what I can find in PISM and Hoover amongst Anders papers. How else can I corroborate this incident? Clearly, something happened for two survivors from the same 18th Infantry Regiment to have seen and recalled this event so many years later. By the way, my father died in 1998 in the UK. So the event has been recalled by my father and by Jadwiga separately. Thank you for any help, Anna Pacewicz Sydney
mark_oyun All Messages By This Member #55887 Dear Anna, It's good to be back. The PISM archive is massive and only a part of it has been digitised. I have been looking at the Delegatura documents but a better bet would be the Army archives of the area which may have been preserved but are too obscure to have been digitised. Dr Chmura was an army doctor writing to (if it is the same person) her CO, Dr Szarecki (who incidentally was the chief surgeon at Cassino and my Granddad's commander) about army matters. It is quite possible there is something at PISM under Army medical Services or Orenburg/Chkalov... an email wouldn't hurt. Ditto Hoover. They well might have something on this... some of the depositions might mention it in passing. Colonel Gwozdziecki is a good start too, but I'm having trouble tracking him down. Will have to work a little harder on this. Regards, Mark Ostrowski toggle quoted message Show quoted text --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "annapacewicz" <annapacewicz@...> wrote: Dear Mark Ah it's great to have you back on the forum! What an amazing find - this is the first tangible piece of information I have found to connect the memories of Jadwiga Socha and my father. I have sent the link to Jadwiga's daughter, Elizabeth, who is helping me with this. The Director of the Hoover Archives is assisting in a search and IPN have promised to look into it. I have not had any luck contacting Wanda Selivanovska in Orenburg so I have just sent another email to her. But this document from PISM is a wonderful start. Question for you, if I may - as far as I am aware not all of the documents at PISM are digitalised, just a selection. Would it be worth spending a couple of days in the reading room to see what else might be there. Or do you suppose that this document is the extent of the official documentation from the Orenburg district in this time period? I don't speak Polish but I could organise for somebody to help me. Many thanks again. Not speaking Polish I would never have unearthed that document online. Best regards Anna Pacewicz Sydney --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Mark and Oyun" <mark_oyun@> wrote: Dear Anna, I find the story quite believable. I dug this up: <> PDF Document 36 Dr Chmura writing to Lt Col Dr Szarecki of the Polish Army medical staff report (12 December 1941) complaining that trains were being stopped at "Krasny Gorod" a freight terminal 2km from the allocated "Polish Platform" at Orenburg Station. Dr Chmur could be the Dr. Maria Chmurzyna from your post. ------------------ PDF Document 177 8th May 1942 Zdislaw Zerebecki the regional delegate reports that the Orenburg Station's Army Outpost had been "liquidated"… I'm sure he means closed and not the more ominous meaning. This could be the fact that the group had to escape; but I'm speculating here. It could also be that the soldiers themselves were sent south for the transport out of the USSR. The office closed on the 8th April 1942. Zerebecki complains how difficult it is to maintain the station as a transit centre without them. ------------------ I can find no reference to the incident in this file, but it is something worth pursuing. It is puzzling that not a word is mentioned of this in the reports. Cover-up? Conspiracy? Best regards, Mark Ostrowski --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "annapacewicz" wrote: Dear group, I hope that you can help me solve a mystery. I have two eye-witness accounts of Poles in the Orenburg oblast in winter 1941. I would like to find out more information about this tragic incident. My father Wladyslaw Pacewicz and also Sybirak Jadwiga Socha (z domu Jablonska, and first marriage surname was Raciborska) both enlisted at Tockoje in the 18th Infantry Regiment, in the 6th Infantry Division. My father enlisted on 1st December 1941. At the end of January 1942 the Division was transferred to Uzbekistan. Both my father, and Jadwiga, recall that a convoy of 23 - 25 wagons containing Polish civilians travelling to the Polish Army in the Winter of 1942 were kept on the sidings for THREE DAYS with the doors shut, with no food and with no fuel for heating. When the NKVD officer finally opened the door to the wagon both my father and Jadwiga saw the frozen, dead bodies of women and children. One woman was holding her baby – they were all frozen and dead. Jadwiga recalls the station was CZKA??W – it was in the Orenburg Oblast (note this has since been re-named Orenburg Station). Jadwiga recalls that she and small group of other Polish soldiers (about 6 - 7) were living near the station. The Polkownik and the small group of Polish soldiers were a sort of "welcoming committee". They were awaiting a trainload of Polish civilians being transported who were due to arrive at CZKA??W. Jadwiga recalls the following names who were with her in the group – they included a female doctor by the name of Dr. Maria Chmurzyna, a female soldier by the name of Kama and a male soldier by the name of Wladek (or Wojtek, but she thinks Wladek – we think my father Wladyslaw Pacewicz) and a Polkownik Gwozdziecki. The group's role was to wait at the station for trainloads of Polish civilians being transported and the Polkownik couldn't understand why days were passing and this particular train had not arrived. The group was waiting to meet the train and organise food to be given out at the station. When the Russian NKVD were asked about the train, they told the Poles that the train had gone through during the night and must have been missed by the waiting Polish soldiers. A few days later, the Polkownik was told (in confidence) by one of the Russians whom he had become friendly with that there was a train that had been re-directed to a siding about 2km before the station at CZKA??W. The Polkownik then made enquiries and, after a while, the train was "found". When the doors to the first wagon were opened by the Polkownik and the male soldiers, Jadwiga heard the Polkownik scream out "Oh my God" (Oj moj Boze). When Jadwiga and the remaining soldiers who were waiting behind him looked in the wagons, they saw a mass of frozen bodies. Jadwiga vividly recalls the first body she saw was a mother holding an infant to her breast, and the mother and infant had signs of charcoal around their mouths. She said the male soldiers then ran from wagon to wagon opening the doors and the same sight of masses of dead bodies greeting them as each of the doors was opened. Jadwiga recalls that the Polkownik officially reported the tragedy to the NKVD and his own superiors and General Anders. Jadwiga recalls the bodies were supposed to have been taken out of the wagons during the next two days. Jadwiga and the small group of Polish soldiers were told not to speak of the incident to anyone else and definitely not to tell anybody what they had seen. Jadwiga said that within two days, the Polkownik called the small group of Polish soldiers to a meeting, told them he had been given tickets for the group by the Russian station worker who had told him about the train being on the siding. The Polkownik told them they all had to escape from CZKA??W quickly as their lives were in danger. He told them that they were to be dressed and ready to escape; they were to wait in the dark near the station till a train that was leaving CZKA??W in the middle of the night was almost due to depart the station at CZKA??W, then on his signal they were to quickly get into a dark wagon. This is how they escaped with their lives. Personally, my father recalled the incident of the frozen women and children who had not been collected in time from the station to me many years ago. It was clearly a suppressed memory and on two occasions he recalled it, crying and distressed. He did not mention anything about "escaping" or their lives being in danger. I spoke to Jadwiga, a 99 year old Sybirak, this week regarding this incident. She still has a very good memory and remembered it vividly and was extremely upset. Her Wall of Names profile is: Jadwiga is convinced that Wladyslaw (my father) was one of the small group of Polish soldiers that she was part of waiting at the station. She says that is the only way he would have known about the mass of dead bodies, and she recalls a Wladek being with her group. Jadwiga's daughter recalls her mother speaking of this tragedy at least 55 years' ago, and on many occasions since then. Is this a story you have heard about? Do you know anything about the incident? Are these Polish civilians, women & children, buried at the Polish cemetery in Totskoye? I am going to contact Wanda in Orenburg, see what I can find in PISM and Hoover amongst Anders papers. How else can I corroborate this incident? Clearly, something happened for two survivors from the same 18th Infantry Regiment to have seen and recalled this event so many years later. By the way, my father died in 1998 in the UK. So the event has been recalled by my father and by Jadwiga separately. Thank you for any help, Anna Pacewicz Sydney
mark_oyun All Messages By This Member #55895 Dear Anna PS: I've just had an "Ahha" moment! Urszula Muskus' Report Aktiubinsk Delegatura to Polish Embassy Kuibyshev, 3 January 1942. PDF PAGE 5 Your Colonel Gwozdziecki is probably Pulkownik Gozdziecki [diacritical mark over the first Z] who may well have been the Polish Army's liaison officer for Czkalovsk. I cannot confirm this as he seems to have dropped off the historical radar, but he seems to have been a person of some importance given the language of the various reports he is mentioned in.[See also PDF Page 126 Romuald Szumski's report 1-7 February 1942.] Possibly PISM or Hoover have heard of him. Regards, Mark ? toggle quoted message Show quoted text --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Mark and Oyun" wrote: > > Dear Anna, > > It's good to be back. The PISM archive is massive and only a part of it has been digitised. I have been looking at the Delegatura documents > but a better bet would be the Army archives of the area which may have been preserved but are too obscure to have been digitised. Dr Chmura was an army doctor writing to (if it is the same person) her CO, Dr Szarecki (who incidentally was the chief surgeon at Cassino and my Granddad's commander) about army matters. It is quite possible there is something at PISM under Army medical Services or Orenburg/Chkalov... an email wouldn't hurt. Ditto Hoover. They well might have something on this... some of the depositions might mention it in passing. > > Colonel Gwozdziecki is a good start too, but I'm having trouble tracking him down. Will have to work a little harder on this. > > Regards, Mark Ostrowski > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "annapacewicz" annapacewicz@ wrote: > > > > Dear Mark > > > > Ah it's great to have you back on the forum! What an amazing find - this is the first tangible piece of information I have found to connect the memories of Jadwiga Socha and my father. I have sent the link to Jadwiga's daughter, Elizabeth, who is helping me with this. > > > > The Director of the Hoover Archives is assisting in a search and IPN have promised to look into it. > > > > I have not had any luck contacting Wanda Selivanovska in Orenburg so I have just sent another email to her. > > > > But this document from PISM is a wonderful start. Question for you, if I may - as far as I am aware not all of the documents at PISM are digitalised, just a selection. Would it be worth spending a couple of days in the reading room to see what else might be there. Or do you suppose that this document is the extent of the official documentation from the Orenburg district in this time period? I don't speak Polish but I could organise for somebody to help me. > > > > Many thanks again. Not speaking Polish I would never have unearthed that document online. > > > > Best regards > > Anna Pacewicz > > Sydney > > > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Mark and Oyun" wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear Anna, > > > > > > I find the story quite believable. I dug this up: > > > > > > http://pism.co.uk/A7307/A7_307_11a.pdf > > > > > > > > > PDF Document 36 > > > > > > Dr Chmura writing to Lt Col Dr Szarecki of the Polish Army medical > > > staff report (12 December 1941) complaining that trains were being > > > stopped at "Krasny Gorod" a freight terminal 2km from the > > > allocated "Polish Platform" at Orenburg Station. > > > > > > Dr Chmur could be the Dr. Maria Chmurzyna from your post. > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > PDF Document 177 > > > > > > 8th May 1942 Zdislaw Zerebecki the regional delegate reports that the > > > Orenburg Station's Army Outpost had been "liquidated"… > > > I'm sure he means closed and not the more ominous meaning. This > > > could be the fact that the group had to escape; but I'm speculating > > > here. It could also be that the soldiers themselves were sent south for > > > the transport out of the USSR. The office closed on the 8th April 1942. > > > Zerebecki complains how difficult it is to maintain the station as a > > > transit centre without them. > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > I can find no reference to the incident in this file, but it is > > > something worth pursuing. It is puzzling that not a word is mentioned > > > of this in the reports. Cover-up? Conspiracy? > > > > > > Best regards, Mark Ostrowski > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "annapacewicz" wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear group, > > > > > > > > I hope that you can help me solve a mystery. > > > > > > > > I have two eye-witness accounts of Poles in the Orenburg oblast in > > > winter 1941. I would like to find out more information about this tragic > > > incident. > > > > > > > > My father Wladyslaw Pacewicz and also Sybirak Jadwiga Socha (z domu > > > Jablonska, and first marriage surname was Raciborska) both enlisted at > > > Tockoje in the 18th Infantry Regiment, in the 6th Infantry Division. My > > > father enlisted on 1st December 1941. At the end of January 1942 the > > > Division was transferred to Uzbekistan. > > > > > > > > Both my father, and Jadwiga, recall that a convoy of 23 - 25 wagons > > > containing Polish civilians travelling to the Polish Army in the Winter > > > of 1942 were kept on the sidings for THREE DAYS with the doors shut, > > > with no food and with no fuel for heating. When the NKVD officer finally > > > opened the door to the wagon both my father and Jadwiga saw the frozen, > > > dead bodies of women and children. One woman was holding her baby – > > > they were all frozen and dead. > > > > > > > > Jadwiga recalls the station was CZKA??W – it was in the > > > Orenburg Oblast (note this has since been re-named Orenburg Station). > > > > Jadwiga recalls that she and small group of other Polish soldiers > > > (about 6 - 7) were living near the station. The Polkownik and the small > > > group of Polish soldiers were a sort of "welcoming committee". They were > > > awaiting a trainload of Polish civilians being transported who were due > > > to arrive at CZKA??W. > > > > > > > > Jadwiga recalls the following names who were with her in the group > > > – they included a female doctor by the name of Dr. Maria Chmurzyna, > > > a female soldier by the name of Kama and a male soldier by the name of > > > Wladek (or Wojtek, but she thinks Wladek – we think my father > > > Wladyslaw Pacewicz) and a Polkownik Gwozdziecki. > > > > > > > > The group's role was to wait at the station for trainloads of Polish > > > civilians being transported and the Polkownik couldn't understand why > > > days were passing and this particular train had not arrived. The group > > > was waiting to meet the train and organise food to be given out at the > > > station. When the Russian NKVD were asked about the train, they told the > > > Poles that the train had gone through during the night and must have > > > been missed by the waiting Polish soldiers. > > > > > > > > A few days later, the Polkownik was told (in confidence) by one of the > > > Russians whom he had become friendly with that there was a train that > > > had been re-directed to a siding about 2km before the station at > > > CZKA??W. The Polkownik then made enquiries and, after a while, the > > > train was "found". > > > > > > > > When the doors to the first wagon were opened by the Polkownik and the > > > male soldiers, Jadwiga heard the Polkownik scream out "Oh my God" (Oj > > > moj Boze). When Jadwiga and the remaining soldiers who were waiting > > > behind him looked in the wagons, they saw a mass of frozen bodies. > > > > > > > > Jadwiga vividly recalls the first body she saw was a mother holding an > > > infant to her breast, and the mother and infant had signs of charcoal > > > around their mouths. She said the male soldiers then ran from wagon to > > > wagon opening the doors and the same sight of masses of dead bodies > > > greeting them as each of the doors was opened. > > > > > > > > Jadwiga recalls that the Polkownik officially reported the tragedy to > > > the NKVD and his own superiors and General Anders. Jadwiga recalls the > > > bodies were supposed to have been taken out of the wagons during the > > > next two days. > > > > > > > > Jadwiga and the small group of Polish soldiers were told not to speak > > > of the incident to anyone else and definitely not to tell anybody what > > > they had seen. Jadwiga said that within two days, the Polkownik called > > > the small group of Polish soldiers to a meeting, told them he had been > > > given tickets for the group by the Russian station worker who had told > > > him about the train being on the siding. The Polkownik told them they > > > all had to escape from CZKA??W quickly as their lives were in danger. > > > He told them that they were to be dressed and ready to escape; they were > > > to wait in the dark near the station till a train that was leaving > > > CZKA??W in the middle of the night was almost due to depart the > > > station at CZKA??W, then on his signal they were to quickly get into > > > a dark wagon. This is how they escaped with their lives. > > > > > > > > Personally, my father recalled the incident of the frozen women and > > > children who had not been collected in time from the station to me many > > > years ago. It was clearly a suppressed memory and on two occasions he > > > recalled it, crying and distressed. He did not mention anything about > > > "escaping" or their lives being in danger. > > > > > > > > I spoke to Jadwiga, a 99 year old Sybirak, this week regarding this > > > incident. She still has a very good memory and remembered it vividly and > > > was extremely upset. > > > > > > > > Her Wall of Names profile is: > > > http://kresy-siberia.org/won/?page_id=19&lang=en&text=Socha&id=87835 > > > > > > > > Jadwiga is convinced that Wladyslaw (my father) was one of the small > > > group of Polish soldiers that she was part of waiting at the station. > > > She says that is the only way he would have known about the mass of dead > > > bodies, and she recalls a Wladek being with her group. > > > > > > > > Jadwiga's daughter recalls her mother speaking of this tragedy at > > > least 55 years' ago, and on many occasions since then. > > > > > > > > Is this a story you have heard about? Do you know anything about the > > > incident? Are these Polish civilians, women & children, buried at the > > > Polish cemetery in Totskoye? I am going to contact Wanda in Orenburg, > > > see what I can find in PISM and Hoover amongst Anders papers. How else > > > can I corroborate this incident? > > > > > > > > Clearly, something happened for two survivors from the same 18th > > > Infantry Regiment to have seen and recalled this event so many years > > > later. By the way, my father died in 1998 in the UK. So the event has > > > been recalled by my father and by Jadwiga separately. > > > > > > > > Thank you for any help, > > > > > > > > Anna Pacewicz > > > > Sydney > > > > > > > > > >
mark_oyun All Messages By This Member #55897 Dear Anna, Last one for today. When you contact Hoover you can tell them you have the index card of the Colonel and the index number of his report on events in Chkalov. Don't get too excited, it's from November 1941... pre incident. It's here anyway: 429.jpg? or here: and his report is here: ?1120.jpg or here: However... The report gives him as: Pulk. Pol. Gozdziewski. Notice the W. This is an Army report so I'm sure the name is correct. The Delegates who wrote the previously cited reports may not have seen his name written down and just wrote it phonetically. The Pol I am sure stands for Police. In 1934 there was an Inspector of the State Police - Wladyslaw Godziewski. Guess what rank Inspector gives you in the Army?! This is the chap. A cop from Poznan until 1934, he became Chief of the Lwow Police from 34 until the invasion in 39. Held in Grazovyets NKVD POW camp he was very lucky to escape the fate of so many other police officers. 390. Inspektor PP. Gozdziewski Wladyslaw o. Stanislaw ur. 1887 Another step closer! Regards, Mark Ostrowski toggle quoted message Show quoted text --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Mark and Oyun" wrote: > > > Dear Anna > > PS: I've just had an "Ahha" moment! > > Urszula Muskus' Report Aktiubinsk Delegatura to Polish Embassy > Kuibyshev, 3 January 1942. > > http://pism.co.uk/A7307/A7_307_11b.pdf > > > PDF PAGE 5 > > Your Colonel Gwozdziecki is probably Pulkownik Gozdziecki [diacritical > mark over the first Z] who may well have been the Polish Army's > liaison officer for Czkalovsk. I cannot confirm this as he seems to have > dropped off the historical radar, but he seems to have been a person of > some importance given the language of the various reports he is > mentioned in.[See also PDF Page 126 Romuald Szumski's report 1-7 > February 1942.] Possibly PISM or Hoover have heard of him. > > Regards, Mark > > > > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Mark and Oyun" wrote: > > > > Dear Anna, > > > > It's good to be back. The PISM archive is massive and only a part of > it has been digitised. I have been looking at the Delegatura documents > > but a better bet would be the Army archives of the area which may have > been preserved but are too obscure to have been digitised. Dr Chmura was > an army doctor writing to (if it is the same person) her CO, Dr Szarecki > (who incidentally was the chief surgeon at Cassino and my Granddad's > commander) about army matters. It is quite possible there is something > at PISM under Army medical Services or Orenburg/Chkalov... an email > wouldn't hurt. Ditto Hoover. They well might have something on this... > some of the depositions might mention it in passing. > > > > Colonel Gwozdziecki is a good start too, but I'm having trouble > tracking him down. Will have to work a little harder on this. > > > > Regards, Mark Ostrowski > > > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "annapacewicz" annapacewicz@ > wrote: > > > > > > Dear Mark > > > > > > Ah it's great to have you back on the forum! What an amazing find - > this is the first tangible piece of information I have found to connect > the memories of Jadwiga Socha and my father. I have sent the link to > Jadwiga's daughter, Elizabeth, who is helping me with this. > > > > > > The Director of the Hoover Archives is assisting in a search and IPN > have promised to look into it. > > > > > > I have not had any luck contacting Wanda Selivanovska in Orenburg so > I have just sent another email to her. > > > > > > But this document from PISM is a wonderful start. Question for you, > if I may - as far as I am aware not all of the documents at PISM are > digitalised, just a selection. Would it be worth spending a couple of > days in the reading room to see what else might be there. Or do you > suppose that this document is the extent of the official documentation > from the Orenburg district in this time period? I don't speak Polish but > I could organise for somebody to help me. > > > > > > Many thanks again. Not speaking Polish I would never have unearthed > that document online. > > > > > > Best regards > > > Anna Pacewicz > > > Sydney > > > > > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Mark and Oyun" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Anna, > > > > > > > > I find the story quite believable. I dug this up: > > > > > > > > http://pism.co.uk/A7307/A7_307_11a.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > PDF Document 36 > > > > > > > > Dr Chmura writing to Lt Col Dr Szarecki of the Polish Army medical > > > > staff report (12 December 1941) complaining that trains were being > > > > stopped at "Krasny Gorod" a freight terminal 2km from the > > > > allocated "Polish Platform" at Orenburg Station. > > > > > > > > Dr Chmur could be the Dr. Maria Chmurzyna from your post. > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > > > PDF Document 177 > > > > > > > > 8th May 1942 Zdislaw Zerebecki the regional delegate reports that > the > > > > Orenburg Station's Army Outpost had been "liquidated"… > > > > I'm sure he means closed and not the more ominous meaning. This > > > > could be the fact that the group had to escape; but I'm > speculating > > > > here. It could also be that the soldiers themselves were sent > south for > > > > the transport out of the USSR. The office closed on the 8th April > 1942. > > > > Zerebecki complains how difficult it is to maintain the station as > a > > > > transit centre without them. > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > > > I can find no reference to the incident in this file, but it is > > > > something worth pursuing. It is puzzling that not a word is > mentioned > > > > of this in the reports. Cover-up? Conspiracy? > > > > > > > > Best regards, Mark Ostrowski > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "annapacewicz" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear group, > > > > > > > > > > I hope that you can help me solve a mystery. > > > > > > > > > > I have two eye-witness accounts of Poles in the Orenburg oblast > in > > > > winter 1941. I would like to find out more information about this > tragic > > > > incident. > > > > > > > > > > My father Wladyslaw Pacewicz and also Sybirak Jadwiga Socha (z > domu > > > > Jablonska, and first marriage surname was Raciborska) both > enlisted at > > > > Tockoje in the 18th Infantry Regiment, in the 6th Infantry > Division. My > > > > father enlisted on 1st December 1941. At the end of January 1942 > the > > > > Division was transferred to Uzbekistan. > > > > > > > > > > Both my father, and Jadwiga, recall that a convoy of 23 - 25 > wagons > > > > containing Polish civilians travelling to the Polish Army in the > Winter > > > > of 1942 were kept on the sidings for THREE DAYS with the doors > shut, > > > > with no food and with no fuel for heating. When the NKVD officer > finally > > > > opened the door to the wagon both my father and Jadwiga saw the > frozen, > > > > dead bodies of women and children. One woman was holding her baby > – > > > > they were all frozen and dead. > > > > > > > > > > Jadwiga recalls the station was CZKA??W – it was in the > > > > Orenburg Oblast (note this has since been re-named Orenburg > Station). > > > > > Jadwiga recalls that she and small group of other Polish > soldiers > > > > (about 6 - 7) were living near the station. The Polkownik and the > small > > > > group of Polish soldiers were a sort of "welcoming committee". > They were > > > > awaiting a trainload of Polish civilians being transported who > were due > > > > to arrive at CZKA??W. > > > > > > > > > > Jadwiga recalls the following names who were with her in the > group > > > > – they included a female doctor by the name of Dr. Maria > Chmurzyna, > > > > a female soldier by the name of Kama and a male soldier by the > name of > > > > Wladek (or Wojtek, but she thinks Wladek – we think my father > > > > Wladyslaw Pacewicz) and a Polkownik Gwozdziecki. > > > > > > > > > > The group's role was to wait at the station for trainloads of > Polish > > > > civilians being transported and the Polkownik couldn't understand > why > > > > days were passing and this particular train had not arrived. The > group > > > > was waiting to meet the train and organise food to be given out at > the > > > > station. When the Russian NKVD were asked about the train, they > told the > > > > Poles that the train had gone through during the night and must > have > > > > been missed by the waiting Polish soldiers. > > > > > > > > > > A few days later, the Polkownik was told (in confidence) by one > of the > > > > Russians whom he had become friendly with that there was a train > that > > > > had been re-directed to a siding about 2km before the station at > > > > CZKA??W. The Polkownik then made enquiries and, after a while, > the > > > > train was "found". > > > > > > > > > > When the doors to the first wagon were opened by the Polkownik > and the > > > > male soldiers, Jadwiga heard the Polkownik scream out "Oh my God" > (Oj > > > > moj Boze). When Jadwiga and the remaining soldiers who were > waiting > > > > behind him looked in the wagons, they saw a mass of frozen bodies. > > > > > > > > > > Jadwiga vividly recalls the first body she saw was a mother > holding an > > > > infant to her breast, and the mother and infant had signs of > charcoal > > > > around their mouths. She said the male soldiers then ran from > wagon to > > > > wagon opening the doors and the same sight of masses of dead > bodies > > > > greeting them as each of the doors was opened. > > > > > > > > > > Jadwiga recalls that the Polkownik officially reported the > tragedy to > > > > the NKVD and his own superiors and General Anders. Jadwiga recalls > the > > > > bodies were supposed to have been taken out of the wagons during > the > > > > next two days. > > > > > > > > > > Jadwiga and the small group of Polish soldiers were told not to > speak > > > > of the incident to anyone else and definitely not to tell anybody > what > > > > they had seen. Jadwiga said that within two days, the Polkownik > called > > > > the small group of Polish soldiers to a meeting, told them he had > been > > > > given tickets for the group by the Russian station worker who had > told > > > > him about the train being on the siding. The Polkownik told them > they > > > > all had to escape from CZKA??W quickly as their lives were in > danger. > > > > He told them that they were to be dressed and ready to escape; > they were > > > > to wait in the dark near the station till a train that was leaving > > > > CZKA??W in the middle of the night was almost due to depart the > > > > station at CZKA??W, then on his signal they were to quickly get > into > > > > a dark wagon. This is how they escaped with their lives. > > > > > > > > > > Personally, my father recalled the incident of the frozen women > and > > > > children who had not been collected in time from the station to me > many > > > > years ago. It was clearly a suppressed memory and on two occasions > he > > > > recalled it, crying and distressed. He did not mention anything > about > > > > "escaping" or their lives being in danger. > > > > > > > > > > I spoke to Jadwiga, a 99 year old Sybirak, this week regarding > this > > > > incident. She still has a very good memory and remembered it > vividly and > > > > was extremely upset. > > > > > > > > > > Her Wall of Names profile is: > > > > > http://kresy-siberia.org/won/?page_id=19&lang=en&text=Socha&id=87835 > > > > > > > > > > Jadwiga is convinced that Wladyslaw (my father) was one of the > small > > > > group of Polish soldiers that she was part of waiting at the > station. > > > > She says that is the only way he would have known about the mass > of dead > > > > bodies, and she recalls a Wladek being with her group. > > > > > > > > > > Jadwiga's daughter recalls her mother speaking of this tragedy > at > > > > least 55 years' ago, and on many occasions since then. > > > > > > > > > > Is this a story you have heard about? Do you know anything about > the > > > > incident? Are these Polish civilians, women & children, buried at > the > > > > Polish cemetery in Totskoye? I am going to contact Wanda in > Orenburg, > > > > see what I can find in PISM and Hoover amongst Anders papers. How > else > > > > can I corroborate this incident? > > > > > > > > > > Clearly, something happened for two survivors from the same 18th > > > > Infantry Regiment to have seen and recalled this event so many > years > > > > later. By the way, my father died in 1998 in the UK. So the event > has > > > > been recalled by my father and by Jadwiga separately. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for any help, > > > > > > > > > > Anna Pacewicz > > > > > Sydney > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Anna Pacewicz All Messages By This Member #55904 Dear Mark, My head is spinning, this is all amazing, amazing, amazing.... Very coincidentally I have just started reading "The Long Bridge" (poor Peter, it has only taken me a year since I bought it) and I had only just read about Urzula making the journey to Anders. It struck me that Orenburg/Chkalov was obviously a major inter-change/destination and that the scale of the humanitarian (military and civilian) crisis making its way from Kazakhstan to Orenburg was vast. I have sent off the Index Card information to Irena at Hoover and I greatly hope that she can uncover something. As I am in Australia it is impossible for me to get to PISM (this year anyway) so I will arrange to have somebody check in the Army / Medical archives for Orenburg. Colonel Gwozdziecki/Pulkownik Gwozdziecki must be the same person. What brilliant detective work to find him! Incidentally your link to the PP website was an additionaly great find as my grandfather Jan Pacewicz was listed under the Police killed by the Soviets in 1940 and it also gave information of his PP District XIII Wolyn (he has the number 13 on the appulettes of his uniform in the two photographs I have of him). When I met with Jadwiga Socha some weeks ago now she was telling us (Stefan, myself and her daughter Elizabeth) in part English/part Polish that she had enlisted at Tockoje. "Oh my Dad too" I said. Then she told us she was in the 18th Infantry Division. "Oh my Dad too!" I said again, always pleased when I find a connection. But then she started to talk about a train load of civilians kept on the sidings for days, and when the doors opened she saw the frozen, dead bodies of women & children. My hair literally stood on end. The ONLY time my Dad spoke about his exile was when I was studying history and watching a documentary on Stalin. It obviously surfaced traumatic memories for Dad and he started crying and telling me about the frozen, dead bodies of women & children who had not been collected from the station. It came to the surface like an erupting volcano and he spoke of it in detail as if he was seeing it right there and then in front of him. I had always assumed this was on his deportation journey but, of course, this makes no sense as he was deported on 13 April to Kazahkstah and it would have been practically summer when they arrived on the Steppe. It could only have been in the Winter of 1941/42 which was when he was in Tockoje (I know the exact dates from his MoD papers). Both Jadwiga and my father clearly have this event embedded in their memory. Though in her 90's Jadwiga recalled it in graphic and specific detail. Imagine recalling the names of those people, including a "Wladek" (my Dad?) after 70 years. I was beginning to be very unhopeful that I would ever get to the bottom of this and I feel now that there is clearly truth and evidence in this sad tale. For Jadwiga and my Dad, it remained a traumatic memory for their whole lives. Her daughter Elizabeth said that Jadwiga has spoken and cried about this event regularly over the last 50 years. So anyway, I just wanted to say thank you for helping to solve the mystery :) I will pursue Hoover, PISM and I have contacted Wanda again in Orenburg. I have also sent copies of all this information to Elizabeth, to relay to her mother in case it prompts anymore detail or memories. I did have one more vague thought. The 18th Infantry Division was a reserve division. My father was only 13 years old when he enlisted at Tockoje. Although he lied about his age, surely the authorities knew he could not have been 18. Jadwiga was a young woman. She had been imprisoned in Moscow, badly beaten and I cannot imagine she was in good shape. I wonder if this was why my Dad and Jadwiga were charged with meeting Poles at the train station as a welcoming committee as opposed to under-going military training? Thank you so much again... I am going to read through all the PDFs and links now at length. I will also contact Peter Muskus just in case there was any additional information in Urzula's writing/files on Orenburg. Best regards Anna Pacewicz Sydney
mark_oyun All Messages By This Member #55906 Dear Anna, A few musings in summary. We know: ----------- 12^th ?December 1941 Dr Chmura working as head of the Army Health Service, Orenburg Station She Complained about trains stopping at Kransny Gorod, a freight terminal 2km from Orenburg Station. This is the place. 2 Km from central Orenburg: ? Her December report begins… "My last report of 30.XI.1941…" Where are the others? ----------- The Commanding Officer of Orenburg Army Liaison Office was Colonel Wladyslaw Gozdziewski. There is very little detail about his war record after Russia. Presumably he sent reports. Where are they? I still have hopes for PISM. ? The liaison office closed 8th April, 1942. You wrote: It could only have been in the Winter of 1941/42 which was when he was in Tockoje (I know the exact dates from his MoD papers). What are the dates? This will narrow the window for searching. ----------- You further write: I wonder if this was why my Dad and Jadwiga were charged with meeting Poles at the train station as a welcoming committee as opposed to under-going military training? ? I think you are probably quite right. Before the war my granddad was a cabinet maker who had the misfortune of losing a thumb on his right hand; didn't prevent him making cabinets, but not so good for holding a rifle. He was directed into a field hospital as a medical orderly. Fit enough to carry stretchers and pick up body parts! May I ask what Jadwiga did after Orenburg. Obviously evacuated… what did she do during the war? 18^th Infantry Regiment went on to be part of 6^th Lwowska Infantry Division… but what did she actually do? Pestki? Medical service? ? actually mentions the recruitment commission in Czkalov: komisji poborowej w Czkalowie. ? Best regards, Mark Ostrowski toggle quoted message Show quoted text --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "annapacewicz" wrote: > > Dear Mark, > > My head is spinning, this is all amazing, amazing, amazing.... > > Very coincidentally I have just started reading "The Long Bridge" (poor Peter, it has only taken me a year since I bought it) and I had only just read about Urzula making the journey to Anders. It struck me that Orenburg/Chkalov was obviously a major inter-change/destination and that the scale of the humanitarian (military and civilian) crisis making its way from Kazakhstan to Orenburg was vast. > > I have sent off the Index Card information to Irena at Hoover and I greatly hope that she can uncover something. As I am in Australia it is impossible for me to get to PISM (this year anyway) so I will arrange to have somebody check in the Army / Medical archives for Orenburg. > > Colonel Gwozdziecki/Pulkownik Gwozdziecki must be the same person. What brilliant detective work to find him! Incidentally your link to the PP website was an additionaly great find as my grandfather Jan Pacewicz was listed under the Police killed by the Soviets in 1940 and it also gave information of his PP District XIII Wolyn (he has the number 13 on the appulettes of his uniform in the two photographs I have of him). > > When I met with Jadwiga Socha some weeks ago now she was telling us (Stefan, myself and her daughter Elizabeth) in part English/part Polish that she had enlisted at Tockoje. "Oh my Dad too" I said. Then she told us she was in the 18th Infantry Division. "Oh my Dad too!" I said again, always pleased when I find a connection. But then she started to talk about a train load of civilians kept on the sidings for days, and when the doors opened she saw the frozen, dead bodies of women & children. My hair literally stood on end. The ONLY time my Dad spoke about his exile was when I was studying history and watching a documentary on Stalin. It obviously surfaced traumatic memories for Dad and he started crying and telling me about the frozen, dead bodies of women & children who had not been collected from the station. It came to the surface like an erupting volcano and he spoke of it in detail as if he was seeing it right there and then in front of him. > > I had always assumed this was on his deportation journey but, of course, this makes no sense as he was deported on 13 April to Kazahkstah and it would have been practically summer when they arrived on the Steppe. It could only have been in the Winter of 1941/42 which was when he was in Tockoje (I know the exact dates from his MoD papers). > > Both Jadwiga and my father clearly have this event embedded in their memory. Though in her 90's Jadwiga recalled it in graphic and specific detail. Imagine recalling the names of those people, including a "Wladek" (my Dad?) after 70 years. > > I was beginning to be very unhopeful that I would ever get to the bottom of this and I feel now that there is clearly truth and evidence in this sad tale. For Jadwiga and my Dad, it remained a traumatic memory for their whole lives. Her daughter Elizabeth said that Jadwiga has spoken and cried about this event regularly over the last 50 years. > > So anyway, I just wanted to say thank you for helping to solve the mystery :) > > I will pursue Hoover, PISM and I have contacted Wanda again in Orenburg. I have also sent copies of all this information to Elizabeth, to relay to her mother in case it prompts anymore detail or memories. > > I did have one more vague thought. The 18th Infantry Division was a reserve division. My father was only 13 years old when he enlisted at Tockoje. Although he lied about his age, surely the authorities knew he could not have been 18. Jadwiga was a young woman. She had been imprisoned in Moscow, badly beaten and I cannot imagine she was in good shape. I wonder if this was why my Dad and Jadwiga were charged with meeting Poles at the train station as a welcoming committee as opposed to under-going military training? > > Thank you so much again... I am going to read through all the PDFs and links now at length. I will also contact Peter Muskus just in case there was any additional information in Urzula's writing/files on Orenburg. > > Best regards > Anna Pacewicz > Sydney >

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