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Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Pahlavi on Palm Sunday 24.3.42 - JULIAN LANG

 

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This research is wonderful, we find stuff and correct it, because in the past everyone, most everyone had a guess and all research material was either locked up in Hoover or Sikorski or randomly thrown about the internet, but through KS Group we are bringing all this together with truthful facts and information.? Well done group.

Hania, if you can let them know of the mistake.

Lenarda, Australia

?

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of Anne Kaczanowski
Sent: Saturday, 23 March, 2013 4:05 PM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Pahlavi on Palm Sunday 24.3.42 - JULIAN LANG

?

?

This is my dad's old war buddy..The date is wrong..it should say 29th.

?

hania

?

From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:03:15 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Pahlavi on Palm Sunday 24.3.42 - JULIAN LANG

?

Quote - Viktor and I arrived in Pahlavi on Palm Sunday, March 24, 1942. I was enlisted in Polish forces under British command. My identification was Lance-Corporal 1922/1II. I was first enlisted in 9th Medium Artillery then transferred to 10th Medium Artillery (Light Aid Detachment, Type B). Our army later became known as Polish 2nd Corps.

?

?

Lenarda, Australia

?


New Zealand's First Refugees: Pahiatua's Polish Children - Taken north to Siberia (Pahlavi) 1942

 

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New Zealand's First Refugees: Pahiatua's Polish Children

Taken north to Siberia

?

Lenarda, Australia


Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Pahlavi on Palm Sunday 24.3.42 - JULIAN LANG

 

This is my dad's old war buddy..The date is wrong..it should say 29th.
?
hania

From: Lenarda Szymczak
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:03:15 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Pahlavi on Palm Sunday 24.3.42 - JULIAN LANG
?
Quote - Viktor and I arrived in Pahlavi on Palm Sunday, March 24, 1942. I was enlisted in Polish forces under British command. My identification was Lance-Corporal 1922/1II. I was first enlisted in 9th Medium Artillery then transferred to 10th Medium Artillery (Light Aid Detachment, Type B). Our army later became known as Polish 2nd Corps.
?
?
Lenarda, Australia
?


Pahlavi on Palm Sunday 24.3.42 - JULIAN LANG

 

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Quote - Viktor and I arrived in Pahlavi on Palm Sunday, March 24, 1942. I was enlisted in Polish forces under British command. My identification was Lance-Corporal 1922/1II. I was first enlisted in 9th Medium Artillery then transferred to 10th Medium Artillery (Light Aid Detachment, Type B). Our army later became known as Polish 2nd Corps.

?

?

Lenarda, Australia

?


ANDERS ODYSSEY September 1939

 

Hello everyone,

I wanted to?share this great website. So far, I am reading the Anders Odyssey. Have not gotten to the other contents. I recommend it!

LINK:

Have a wonderful weekend!

Monica Jurecki
MT, U.S.


Stan and John......Krasnowodsk to Pahlevi

 

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_Pu%C5%82k_U%C5%82an%C3%B3w_Krechowieckich
25 marca 1942, w zwi?zku ze zmniejszeniem ilo?ci porcji dla wojska, pu?k w ramach pierwszej ewakuacji odp?yn?? z Krasnowodska do Pahlevi. Zako¨½czy? si? pierwszy etap funkcjonowania odrodzonego 1 Pu?ku U?an¨®w Krechowieckich.
?
http://leopoldokulickilegungenkomendant.blogspot.ca/2012/09/gen-leopold-okulicki-u-polskich-sierot.html
W dniach 24 marca do 4 kwietnia ewakuowano 33 069 ?o?nierzy, w tym 1603 oficer¨®w, 1759 ochotniczek i 1880 junak¨®w, a tak?e 10 789 os¨®b cywilnych, w tym 3100 dzieci. 19 W?r¨®d przyby?ych na Bliski Wsch¨®d odnotowano wzrost zachorowa¨½, g?¨®wnie na tyfus plamisty, dyzenteri?, malari? i inne choroby.
?
Picture
?
20-23.03.1942, Morze Kaspijskie
Ewakuacja Armii Polskiej ze Zwi?zku Radzieckiego. Podr¨®? grupy lotnik¨®w i marynarzy z Krasnowodska do Pahlewi.
Fot. NN, Instytut Polski im. Gen. Sikorskiego w Londynie
?
?
http://a-philips.blogspot.ca/
25 marca 1942, w zwi?zku ze zmniejszeniem ilo?ci porcji dla wojska, pu?k w ramach pierwszej ewakuacji odp?yn?? z Krasnowodska (ZSRR) do Pahlevi (Iran
?


Film on Netflix

 

There is an interesting film on Netflix about a Polish single mother in Kazakhstan called "Beyond the Steps".
It's in Polish but dubbed in English. It reminds me of the stories my mother told me of her journey.

Chris Gorski


FAREWELL TO AFRICA - polish resettlement camps in the uk 1946

 

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A story of transition by Polish people from Kresy, with links to other sites of memory.

?

in Gloucestershire

List and Information

on other family

Polish Boarding Schools

of? Polish DPs from Africa and Europe.

1946-1948

Messageboard and

Your

personal

Contact

?

?

?

Lenarda, Australia


Soviet Merchant Marine Losses in WW2 (Black Sea, Caspian and Pacific)

 

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Good maps of Caspian Sea with names of Ports, photos and ships names and how lost, around 1942

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Soviet Merchant Marine. Lend Lease Ships

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use the directories ?within the site to get around and there is masses of information available.

?

Lenarda, Australia

?


Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] off topic - DIRECT LINK TO POLISH ARCHIVES IN POLAND

 

Chris,
You have to start here:

Do your searches.
If you locate any of your family proceed to the next step.

On the far right columns you will see headings for the archive location of the documents requested by the form.
I believe all of these are from parish (parafia) records so you choose 436 - parish records in the archive type.

If you need more help I also gave the email for the support person there.

I hope that helps!

Bernie

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., Chris W <wroblew705@...> wrote:

But what does he mean by?? - you must locate the archive coordinates- ?
Sorry but I don't follow?


Chris Calgary


________________________________
From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 2:31:54 PM
Subject: RE: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] off topic - DIRECT LINK TO POLISH ARCHIVES IN POLAND


??
Bernie, thank you so much for the clarification, this is a big help in our research.
Warmest regards,
Lenarda, Australia
??
From:Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of bstar53
Sent: Saturday, 23 March, 2013 12:49 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] off topic - DIRECT LINK TO POLISH ARCHIVES IN POLAND
??
??
Since Lenard shared the information about AGAD I thought I would expand on it a bit and how I came across it.

There is a free online service for looking up deat, birth and marriage records at the site wolyn-metryki.pl.

The name is somewhat deceptive since it clearly contains records from outside Wolyn as well.

This archive ends around 1869 but I have found a least a few records from 1870. Later records did not make it to Warsaw and are at the Ukrainian archive at Zhitomyr which Lenarda has also relayed.

What I may not have fully conveyed to Lenarda is that before you can request records from the AGAD site you must locate the archive coordinates here.

For example this is a search I did looking for Starzewski and to my amazement up came the marriage record for my pra-pra-pradziadekovie Wincenty and Lucyna (Tomozewska)!



What surprised me is that this town of Burkacze was totally unknown to us yet the names and approximate date is too perfect to discount.

You may enter a partial name or place name in the search criteria. For example just entering Starzewsk will show both men and women from my family.

The following are the instructions I received from AGAD in Warsaw:

Skan lub kserokopie mozna zam??wic przez internet. Tu jest formularz:

Wpiszesz sw??j adres.
Wybierzesz zesp??l nr 436, wpiszesz sygnature 14, strona 30.
Rodzaj reprodukcji - zaznacz "skan z mikrofilmu"
Spos??b odbioru - "e-mail"
Trzeba jeszcze podac, na kogo ma byc wystawiony rachunek.
Dostaniesz rachunek mailem. Placi sie przelewem. W ciagu okolo 30 dni od dokonania zaplaty dostaniesz mailem skan. Cena 1 skanu wynosi 1,5 zl. Mozna placic w dolarach - przeliczenie wedlug sredniego kursu NBP.

Translation:
Scan or copies can be ordered via the internet. Here is the form:

You enter your address.
Select team # 436, enter the signature 14, page 30
Reproduction Type - select "scan from microfilm"
Receive e - "e-mail"
You still need to enter the number of who is to be billed.
You will receive e-mail account. Pay by bank transfer. Within about 30 days after the payment you will get a scan mail. 1 scan rate of 1.5 zl. You can pay in U.S. dollars - translated at the average exchange rate.

These instructions are specific to the record I found. You must substitute the signature and page from your own if you find them.

Questions may be directed to Danuta Wojtowicz <wodanka@...>;
I have found this beyond value and hope that it may aid some of you in your searches as well!

Bernie


Soviet Merchant Marine Losses in WW2 (Black Sea) - Ships Nostalgia

 

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List of ships lost on Black Sea/Caspian Sea around 1942 and their names. ?Sorry if posted before, but found ship name, see below

?

21.04.1942 ¨C Kalinin (§¬§Ñ§Ý§Ú§ß§Ú§ß - One of Soviet Union Leaders) / 4156 BRT / Black Sea State Shipping Co. / Capt.P.L.Bezais; Novorossiysk; She was sunk by German aircrafts.

?

Lenarda,Australia


Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Anna Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you

 

Ed, thanks for this, and Happy Easter to you too!
?
Mark T.
Canada
From: ed Bator <edijadzia@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 8:41:43 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Anna Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you
?
Haloooo Mark !
?
Janek was quite an active and patriotic guy, also Stefan , his naxt brother.? Both were a members of "Strzelec", ?para-military
organization and in reserve,?also members of sport clubs in Janowa Dolina, Kostopol, Wolyn.? Janek took training in?summer 1938,
something in a way of an Air Force and Baloon operations, this must have got him involved with "paratrooping".? He also had some
sort of leadership in his organization and this probably made him "spit in Stalins soup".? Stefan also got arested and sent to gulag.
He managed to join?Anders Army, an later, on?Monte Casino, met-up with 4 yrs younger brother Mietek.? This left 2 yrs younger
than Mietek, sister Halina who in Persia? "learned to lie about her age"? and wounup as a "Pestka" i Scotland. that left, 2 yrs
again, Staszek and yours trully,? again 2 yrs, as junaki in Palestine.? One maried sister, as a seperate family was not exiled.
?
?
?
Father joined Anders Army in Kazakhstan and was released in Persia due to typhus, spent rest of the war in India.? Mother died
on the way out of Stalins paradice, not sure where she is buried - Krasnowodsk or Caspian.
?
?
Now, as a last member of a 2 yrs spaced "clan", it's my duty to shut up and wish all K-S population a Very Happy Easter and
Smacznego Jajka i Smingus Dyngus? (thats Easter Monday -? Oblewany Poniedzialek)
?
?
?
?
Ed (stary junak) N.C.? USA
?
?
?
?
?

From: Mark
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..."
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Anna Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you
?
Hi Ed,
Please disregard this message if at all intrusive, but I have interest in the Katyn List (Ukraine) because my grandfather died there.
I noticed that Jan Bator was one of 13 victims under 20 years old.
I see in the Hall of Memories that he was a 19 year old paratrooper.
I read that alot of non-officers were sent to camps instead of death, and some soldiers even went home eventually.
In?alot of?cases the victims were officers, and in many cases, victims were?Pilsduski patriots whom I?surmise to be revenge targets going back to the Batle of Warsaw.
I am curious why these young people were on the List and not spared and faced?such ultimate fate?
Since older retired people were also on the list, so it doesn't make sense these youngsters were killed only for fear of?being the future army?
Thanks
?
?
?
Mark T. Canada
From: ed Bator
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..."
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:09:23 AM
Subject: [] Re: Anna Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you
?
Hi Anna.?
?
I am trying to get your photos of "Bykownia & Poland" in a Dropbox, but I'm not so swift with the PC and hawing hard time with it.
?
You did sent me?months ago, but I had some problems with computer and lost most of my pictures.? One was of a grave marker
of my brother Jan Bator that I used as a screen picture, this was lost also.
?
Could you send me again?? Please.
?
Ed (s.j.) NC USA

Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you
? --- In mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com, Dropbox wrote: > > Anna (annapacewicz@...) wants to share a folder called "Bykownia & Poland" with you. > > "Hi, > > These are a selection of photographs from my trip to Poland and the Katyn-Bykownia, Ukraine ceremony last September 2012. > > Kind regards > Anna Pacewicz" > > View "Bykownia & Poland" > > > Enjoy! > - The Dropbox Team >


The General Langfitt Story - Leaving the USSR 1942

 

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Quote - The General Langfitt Story (courtesy of Australian Government and Google books)

Chapter 4 - Amnesty and the Journey South (continued)

Leaving the USSR

People were desperate to leave the Soviet Union and many mothers took advantage of the Polish army's 'ploy' of enrolling children in the army as cadets, regardless of age or gender. While this was no doubt a pragmatic decision in the face of continuing uncertainty, it was clearly not an easy decision for many mothers to make. Like Ryszard Pawlowski's mother, these women had battled so hard to bring their families to safety and now the best prospect of saving their children was to hand them over to the care of the army.

Xxxx ¨C how does this count in the numbers of soldier and cadets?

?

Quote - We were taken to a place that was surrounded by barbed wire. It was very hot, there was no water and the Caspian Sea was very dirty. Children who drank that water became very ill. Afterwards they put us on a merchant ship with very deep holds. They were not for people. It was so crowded and I was still very sick with dysentery so we stayed on the deck, with all the sick people. It was awful. Worse than animals. You could not move and some people were so sick they couldn't control themselves. There were a lot of accidents. The smell was terrible and nobody could clean it up. Nobody cared because we were just happy to be on the ship. We were just waiting to go.

?

And this quote is horrendously sad - This ship was the last transport from Krasnovodsk and people were packed on board in the coal holds. Polish soldiers started to remove possessions so that more people would fit, but still some were left behind. Everyone was aware that this was the last boat so people jumped into the water to swim after the boat. They all drowned. (Zbigniew Patro)

?

Quote - Clothes were removed for burning and replaced with an odd assortment of garments, which, along with blankets and sheets, were donated by Polish organisations in America through the Red Cross. Many people remembered with wry humour the 'silly old things' they found themselves wearing: boys could find themselves wearing girls' combinations, some women were given nightdresses or even men's pyjamas, and many who were children recalled having to double up the legs of men's shorts and tie up the waists. No one complained; these were simply observations hinting at the range of indignities which accompany refugee status. As Aleksandra Wisniewska observed, it didn't matter while they were all together in the Pahlavi camp but 'when we got to Tehr¨¤n you can imagine how we felt when people looked at us!'

?

Sorry John and Stan, no dates only years and months.

Regards,

Lenarda, Australia

?


Easter 5 April 1942 Pahlevi

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Copied from Rymaszewski site.

In Pahlevi we camped on the sand along the edges of oil polluted Caspian Sea.

Two days later, on the 5 April, we celebrated on the beach our first Easter since leaving Poland.

PHOTO >>>
5 April 1942: Easter Sunday Mass celebrated by our Polish Army unit (part of 10th Infantry Division from Logovoy) on the beach sand in the Persian port Pahlevi where we camped after evacuation from the Soviet Union. In front one can see folded overcoats, rucksacks and haversacks.

Regards,

Lenarda, Australia

?


Soviet Merchant Marine Losses in WW2 (Black Sea) - Ships Nostalgia 1942

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi John and Stan, both of you should be in the same room together, doing wonderful research, but with all the difficulties, you still achieve amazing results. Well done.

?

I am thinking on track but in different direction and ?found some imformation which may be of assistance.

?

Regards,

Lenarda, Australia


Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Anna Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Witam Edek, it is delightful and nice to hear you speak, naturally as you do.? It reminds me of home and the way things used to be. Thank you for the memory.

Regards,

Lenarda, Australia

?

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of ed Bator
Sent: Saturday, 23 March, 2013 11:42 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Anna Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you

?

?

Haloooo Mark !

?

Janek was quite an active and patriotic guy, also Stefan , his naxt brother.? Both were a members of "Strzelec", ?para-military

organization and in reserve,?also members of sport clubs in Janowa Dolina, Kostopol, Wolyn.? Janek took training in?summer 1938,

something in a way of an Air Force and Baloon operations, this must have got him involved with "paratrooping".? He also had some

sort of leadership in his organization and this probably made him "spit in Stalins soup".? Stefan also got arested and sent to gulag.

He managed to join?Anders Army, an later, on?Monte Casino, met-up with 4 yrs younger brother Mietek.? This left 2 yrs younger

than Mietek, sister Halina who in Persia? "learned to lie about her age"? and wounup as a "Pestka" i Scotland. that left, 2 yrs

again, Staszek and yours trully,? again 2 yrs, as junaki in Palestine.? One maried sister, as a seperate family was not exiled.

?

?

?

Father joined Anders Army in Kazakhstan and was released in Persia due to typhus, spent rest of the war in India.? Mother died

on the way out of Stalins paradice, not sure where she is buried - Krasnowodsk or Caspian.

?

?

Now, as a last member of a 2 yrs spaced "clan", it's my duty to shut up and wish all K-S population a Very Happy Easter and

Smacznego Jajka i Smingus Dyngus? (thats Easter Monday -? Oblewany Poniedzialek)

?

?

?

?

Ed (stary junak) N.C.? USA

?

?

?

?

?

From: Mark <turkiewiczm@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Anna Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you

?

Hi Ed,

Please disregard this message if at all intrusive, but I have interest in the Katyn List (Ukraine) because my grandfather died there.

I noticed that Jan Bator was one of 13 victims under 20 years old.

I see in the Hall of Memories that he was a 19 year old paratrooper.

I read that alot of non-officers were sent to camps instead of death, and some soldiers even went home eventually.

In?alot of?cases the victims were officers, and in many cases, victims were?Pilsduski patriots whom I?surmise to be revenge targets going back to the Batle of Warsaw.

I am curious why these young people were on the List and not spared and faced?such ultimate fate?

Since older retired people were also on the list, so it doesn't make sense these youngsters were killed only for fear of?being the future army?

Thanks

?

?

?

Mark T.Canada

From: ed Bator <edijadzia@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:09:23 AM
Subject: [] Re: Anna Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you

?

Hi Anna.?

?

I am trying to get your photos of "Bykownia & Poland" in a Dropbox, but I'm not so swift with the PC and hawing hard time with it.

?

You did sent me?months ago, but I had some problems with computer and lost most of my pictures.? One was of a grave marker

of my brother Jan Bator that I used as a screen picture, this was lost also.

?

Could you send me again?? Please.

?

Ed (s.j.) NC USA

?

Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you

? --- In mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com, Dropbox <annapacewicz@...> wrote: > > Anna (annapacewicz@...) wants to share a folder called "Bykownia & Poland" with you. > > "Hi, > > These are a selection of photographs from my trip to Poland and the Katyn-Bykownia, Ukraine ceremony last September 2012. > > Kind regards > Anna Pacewicz" > > View "Bykownia & Poland" > > > Enjoy! > - The Dropbox Team >


Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.

John Halucha
 

Hi, Stan.
As I stress, this is only guessing. Here is how it looks to me:

It was a beautiful day, at the start [Friday, March 27]
...?Then fog arrived, and a storm started.?[still Friday, March 27]
...?the ship was damaged during the night, during the storm?[Friday night, Saturday morning, March 27-28]
...?We drifted on the Caspian Sea for about three days [Saturday, Sunday, Monday, March 28-30] - Note "about" - which introduces more uncertainty into the computation.
...?It was not until the fourth day that a different ship drew up and we transferred to it [Tuesday, March 31]
We arrived at Pahlevi, Iran, on April 1, 1942 [Wednesday] - This assumes that they arrived in Pahlevi the next day after transfer, but it could be that they arrived on the same day as transferred. If so, then all the above would be one day later.

The only place I have seen "Karamin" was in the book?"Polish Spirit" by Wladyslaw Wojcik. It was partially quoted earlier on the forum and I did not fully grasp the meaning until I got and read the book. The pertinent passages are on pages 147-8:
"Moored by the quayside was the Karamin, a Soviet merchantman on which we were destined to sail to freedom."
...
"It was the 25th March 1942 when, relieved beyond telling, I gratefully stepped ashore. ... We landed at the Persian port of Pahlevi... I was privileged to be on the very first ship out which carried virtually all of the 1387 airmen and sailors ear-marked for onward transfer to Great Britain under Operation Scrivener."

From the earlier paraphrasing it was not clear to me whether Wojcik was saying that he departed March 25 or he arrived March 25. This makes it clear he said he arrived in Pahlevi March 25, which means he departed Krasnovodsk on March 24. This agrees with most other sources.
Also, while Wojcik is saying that virtually all the 1387 airmen and sailors transferred under Operation Scrivener were on the first ship, he is not saying that they were the only people on that ship. It could well have been carrying many more, including civilians.
Note that he is calling Karamin a merchantman, not a tanker or coal ship, not a fishing boat. Maybe this will help in the search.

"Karamin" was also quoted on this forum March 2 by?Ewa D., Nevada, from?"Deportation and Exile Poles in the Soviet Union 1939-48" by Keith Sword :?"The first ship Karamin left Krasnovodsk on 24 March...arrived in Pahlevi 25 March". It is possible that Sword was using Wojcik as his reference, but I do not have Sword's book yet and can't check. Maybe Ewa or someone else can tell us.

Like you, I am very interested in finding out when that terrible storm happened on the Caspian. Since a ship sank in the storm, maybe that can help pinpoint the date. Probably overnight March 27-28 or overnight March 28-29.

John Halucha
Sault Ste Marie, Canada


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..."
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 6:12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.

?
Dear John,

Of course, you are probably right! Its hard to me to understand?living English text . The girls were saying, that I understand that they departed on March 24.
Now I think they were in the same storm that A.Chroscielewski.
You guessed storm began on March 27 - as departure A.Chroscielewski. I think - one day later, and a day later he was leaving Krasnovodsk.

Now I think that in the morning on March 24 was send only one official ship, which arrived in Pahlavi morning 25.

The source said that? FIRST ship was called "Karamin" - but this is a mistake. That ship was not in the Caspian Sea, the Russian word means nothing.
Close by name two words:
1) tanker "Komintern" (Lenin series) - but he could?take more?passengers than 1387, - three times as much.
2) the kind of ship, code-named "Karamzin" - the Russian translation is added only one letter "z" - was a well-known Russian historian. But I have not found such?ship in all known lists.

Based on your words, commenting on the interview A.Chroscielewski.
?
I assume that the storm aws March 28 in the late afternoon (or night), and hence his departure was not 27 March (as you think through indirect sources, which are not shown).

This is why.
He says that they were picked up at sea another ship on the fourth day and then delivered to?Pahlavi. Let's consider those.
In March - 31 days.
If the origine ship had left Krasnowodsk on March 27 at 2 pm, even picking up from March 31 - get 5 days on the road, and if he picked April 1 - 6 days all the way!
Therefore ship (of A. Chroscielewski could leave only at 2 pm on March 28, to bring a storm on the night of 28/29, to be picked up on March 31 in a day, and in the morning 01 April - arrived in Pahlavi.

Maybe I'm wrong. Let's discuss it. We need to find information abot storm in Caspij 27 or 28 March.

Stan.

From: John Halucha
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..."
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.
?
Frances, is?Francis Omylak your father? The site that Lenarda shared tells quite the story!
Can you tell us precisely how your father's documents express that he arrived at Pahlevi March 27? If they say "Arrival at Pahlevi March 27" then that is very concrete, but if there is some room for interpretation as there was in my father's documents, this date may not be hard and fast.
My father is listed as signing up with the 8th Infantry Division in the Soviet Union on March 30, and coming under British Command in Persia on April 1. For some time, I assumed this meant he arrived in Pahlevi April 1. However, following extensive discussion of this date on forum several of us feel confident now that April 1 was a "deemed" date for coming under British Command because some of us know for certain that arrival was prior to or some days after April 1. So I raise the question in case your father, as an aviator, may have been deemed to have arrived in Pahlevi March 27 as soldiers like my father were deemed to come under British Command April 1 even if they had not yet arrived.
Another possibility is that your father arrived earlier than March 27 but it took a day or two before he was processed by the bureaucrats on that date. Depending on actual wording in the documents, all this may be cleared up very easily.

Stan, what confirms that there was a big storm on March 25 and there was no ship traffic that day?
The girl you mention is at?
http://www.siberianexiles.org/journals/11-alina-byrski-and-iwona-rommer
but she does not give precise a precise date: ?"It was March 1942; Some 2 years after our arrest; Alina and I were now sixteen. From Krasnovodsk we were put on a fishing ship to Pahlevia in Persia (now Iran). There was a terrible storm on the Caspian Sea that night; the ship was crashing through the waves and was so crowded there wasn?€?t room to stand. Everything went over board ?€¡° the vomit, the excreta, and the dead. (A similar vessel with Poles on board sunk that night, with all souls)."

There is mention of a storm in a video of?Antoni Chroscielewski video at
?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQUyIQjvyQE&feature=related?
My translation from the Polish no doubt could use improvement, but more or less he says:
"It was a beautiful day, at the start [date not given, but from context I make it March 27], and everyone was ecstatic to at last be escaping that hell. The ship departed about 2 p.m. The sea was very calm, but after awhile there were gentle long waves that you couldn't see, but we could start to feel it. Then fog arrived, and a storm started. Many of the people started to get sick. It turned out that there was no drinking water on the ship. After that salty soup and salted fish, after those herrings, there was no water. It was a tragedy, truly.
The storm was so huge on this sea, the Caspian, that it was literally throwing the ship around. Water was flowing over the deck, where the people were, and several were probably washed overboard without anyone knowing about it. I had to run to the side every so often to be sick. If the ship had tilted and a wave came, I also would have been washed overboard since there was no way I could hold on the the sort of barrier there.
Unfortunately, the ship was damaged during the night, during the storm. The rudder was ripped off or something like that. We drifted on the Caspian Sea for about three days, without water, without anything. I had to endure the sun because there was no kind of shade, so you had to stay out in the sun. By the third day you didn't care if the ship would sink or not, a person was so exhausted. We even tried to haul up some water, from the sea, but that made for an even worse effect. It was not until the fourth day that a different ship drew up and we transferred to it - on the sea, on the very sea.
We arrived at Pahlevi, Iran, on April 1, 1942"

From this, it appears to me that the storm was March 27 or later rather than on March 25.

What makes you conclude that there was no shipment on March 25? Some sources speak of the first arrivals being that day and mention no storms. In fact, it may be that one of our own, Ed Bator, arrived on March 25. Ed, do I have that right?

John Halucha
Sault Ste Marie, Canada

From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..."
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:45:52 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.
?
Thank you dear Francis! This is an important clarification.

1. It indirectly confirms that March 25 was a big storm and a small boat with Poles sank - about it somebody wrote (the girl, I do not remember the name).
2. Confirms that on March 25 there was no shipment, as it was a storm. Evacuation was continued on 26 March.

Stan from M.

From: Frances
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.
?
Hello Stan The date of departure from Kermine was 22 Msrch 1942; from Krasnovodsk 24 March - and arrival in Pahlevi 27 March. I have my father's documents showing these dates. Frances


Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Anna Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you

 

Haloooo Mark !
?
Janek was quite an active and patriotic guy, also Stefan , his naxt brother.? Both were a members of "Strzelec", ?para-military
organization and in reserve,?also members of sport clubs in Janowa Dolina, Kostopol, Wolyn.? Janek took training in?summer 1938,
something in a way of an Air Force and Baloon operations, this must have got him involved with "paratrooping".? He also had some
sort of leadership in his organization and this probably made him "spit in Stalins soup".? Stefan also got arested and sent to gulag.
He managed to join?Anders Army, an later, on?Monte Casino, met-up with 4 yrs younger brother Mietek.? This left 2 yrs younger
than Mietek, sister Halina who in Persia? "learned to lie about her age"? and wounup as a "Pestka" i Scotland. that left, 2 yrs
again, Staszek and yours trully,? again 2 yrs, as junaki in Palestine.? One maried sister, as a seperate family was not exiled.
?
?
?
Father joined Anders Army in Kazakhstan and was released in Persia due to typhus, spent rest of the war in India.? Mother died
on the way out of Stalins paradice, not sure where she is buried - Krasnowodsk or Caspian.
?
?
Now, as a last member of a 2 yrs spaced "clan", it's my duty to shut up and wish all K-S population a Very Happy Easter and
Smacznego Jajka i Smingus Dyngus? (thats Easter Monday -? Oblewany Poniedzialek)
?
?
?
?
Ed (stary junak) N.C.? USA
?
?
?
?
?

From: Mark
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..."
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Anna Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you
?
Hi Ed,
Please disregard this message if at all intrusive, but I have interest in the Katyn List (Ukraine) because my grandfather died there.
I noticed that Jan Bator was one of 13 victims under 20 years old.
I see in the Hall of Memories that he was a 19 year old paratrooper.
I read that alot of non-officers were sent to camps instead of death, and some soldiers even went home eventually.
In?alot of?cases the victims were officers, and in many cases, victims were?Pilsduski patriots whom I?surmise to be revenge targets going back to the Batle of Warsaw.
I am curious why these young people were on the List and not spared and faced?such ultimate fate?
Since older retired people were also on the list, so it doesn't make sense these youngsters were killed only for fear of?being the future army?
Thanks
?
?
?
Mark T.Canada
From: ed Bator
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..."
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 11:09:23 AM
Subject: [] Re: Anna Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you
?
Hi Anna.?
?
I am trying to get your photos of "Bykownia & Poland" in a Dropbox, but I'm not so swift with the PC and hawing hard time with it.
?
You did sent me?months ago, but I had some problems with computer and lost most of my pictures.? One was of a grave marker
of my brother Jan Bator that I used as a screen picture, this was lost also.
?
Could you send me again?? Please.
?
Ed (s.j.) NC USA

Pacewicz wants to share "Bykownia & Poland" with you
? --- In mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com, Dropbox wrote: > > Anna (annapacewicz@...) wants to share a folder called "Bykownia & Poland" with you. > > "Hi, > > These are a selection of photographs from my trip to Poland and the Katyn-Bykownia, Ukraine ceremony last September 2012. > > Kind regards > Anna Pacewicz" > > View "Bykownia & Poland" > > > Enjoy! > - The Dropbox Team >


Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Francis Omylak - Kermine ......

John Halucha
 

Thanks, Frances.
This makes it very clear that your father boarded on Tuesday, March 24 and arrived Friday, March 27.
Most of the voyages seem to have take a bit longer than 24 hours unless there was a problem. Even if he left very late on the 24th and arrived just after midnight on the 27th, that was an unusually long trip. Wouldn't it be interesting to find out why, eh? Good luck with that, and if I come across any clue you will be the first to know.
John Halucha
Sault Ste Marie, Canada


From: Frances
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 10:54:20 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Francis Omylak - Kermine ......

?

John - sorry for typo.

Should read:

24.III.42 Przyjazd i odjazd z Krasnowodzka do Persji

Frances

--- In Kresy-Siberia@..., "Frances" wrote:
>
>
> Yes, John - and from my father's handwritten document 'Zeszyt Ewidencyjny' is the following, :
>
> 22.III.42 Wyjazd z Kermine do postu Krasnowodzk
>
> 24.IV. 42 Przyjazd i odjazd z Krasnowodzka do Persji
>
> 27.III.42 Przyjazd do Pahlevi (Persja)
>
> 6.IV.42 Przyjazd do Achwazu (Persja)
>
> From previous entries it seems my father enlisted in the army on 30.I.42 in Guzarze. On 6.III.42 there was an evacuation i.e "Ewak. Stacj. Zbornej Lotu. i Marynarki z Kermine."
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Frances
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Kresy-Siberia@..., John Halucha wrote:
> >
> > Frances, is??Francis Omylak your father? The site that Lenarda shared tells quite the story!
> > Can you tell us precisely how your father's documents express that he arrived at Pahlevi March 27? If they say "Arrival at Pahlevi March 27" then that is very concrete, but if there is some room for interpretation as there was in my father's documents, this date may not be hard and fast.
> > My father is listed as signing up with the 8th Infantry Division in the Soviet Union on March 30, and coming under British Command in Persia on April 1. For some time, I assumed this meant he arrived in Pahlevi April 1. However, following extensive discussion of this date on forum several of us feel confident now that April 1 was a "deemed" date for coming under British Command because some of us know for certain that arrival was prior to or some days after April 1. So I raise the question in case your father, as an aviator, may have been deemed to have arrived in Pahlevi March 27 as soldiers like my father were deemed to come under British Command April 1 even if they had not yet arrived.
> > Another possibility is that your father arrived earlier than March 27 but it took a day or two before he was processed by the bureaucrats on that date. Depending on actual wording in the documents, all this may be cleared up very easily.
> >
> > Stan, what confirms that there was a big storm on March 25 and there was no ship traffic that day?
> > The girl you mention is at??
> >
> >
> > but she does not give precise a precise date: ??"It was March 1942; Some 2 years after our arrest; Alina and I were now sixteen. From Krasnovodsk we were put on a fishing ship to Pahlevia in Persia (now Iran). There was a terrible storm on the Caspian Sea that night; the ship was crashing through the waves and was so crowded there wasn?€?t room to stand. Everything went over board ?€" the vomit, the excreta, and the dead. (A similar vessel with Poles on board sunk that night, with all souls)."
> >
> > There is mention of a storm in a video of??Antoni Chroscielewski video at
> > ????
> > My translation from the Polish no doubt could use improvement, but more or less he says:
> > "It was a beautiful day, at the start [date not given, but from context I make it March 27], and everyone was ecstatic to at last be escaping that hell. The ship departed about 2 p.m. The sea was very calm, but after awhile there were gentle long waves that you couldn't see, but we could start to feel it. Then fog arrived, and a storm started. Many of the people started to get sick. It turned out that there was no drinking water on the ship. After that salty soup and salted fish, after those herrings, there was no water. It was a tragedy, truly.
> > The storm was so huge on this sea, the Caspian, that it was literally throwing the ship around. Water was flowing over the deck, where the people were, and several were probably washed overboard without anyone knowing about it. I had to run to the side every so often to be sick. If the ship had tilted and a wave came, I also would have been washed overboard since there was no way I could hold on the the sort of barrier there.
> > Unfortunately, the ship was damaged during the night, during the storm. The rudder was ripped off or something like that. We drifted on the Caspian Sea for about three days, without water, without anything. I had to endure the sun because there was no kind of shade, so you had to stay out in the sun. By the third day you didn't care if the ship would sink or not, a person was so exhausted. We even tried to haul up some water, from the sea, but that made for an even worse effect. It was not until the fourth day that a different ship drew up and we transferred to it - on the sea, on the very sea.
> > We arrived at Pahlevi, Iran, on April 1, 1942"
> >
> > From this, it appears to me that the storm was March 27 or later rather than on March 25.
> >
> > What makes you conclude that there was no shipment on March 25? Some sources speak of the first arrivals being that day and mention no storms. In fact, it may be that one of our own, Ed Bator, arrived on March 25. Ed, do I have that right?
> >
> > John Halucha
> > Sault Ste Marie, Canada
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski
> > To: "Kresy-Siberia@...Kresy-Siberia@...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:45:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.
> >
> >
> > ??
> > Thank you dear Francis! This is an important clarification.
> >
> > 1. It indirectly confirms that March 25 was a big storm and a small boat with Poles sank - about it somebody wrote (the girl, I do not remember the name).
> > 2. Confirms that on March 25 there was no shipment, as it was a storm. Evacuation was continued on 26 March.
> >
> > Stan from M.
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Frances
> > To: Kresy-Siberia@...
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:52 AM
> > Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.
> >
> >
> > ??
> >
> > Hello Stan
> >
> > The date of departure from Kermine was 22 Msrch 1942; from Krasnovodsk 24 March - and arrival in Pahlevi 27 March.
> >
> > I have my father's documents showing these dates.
> >
> > Frances
> >
>




Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Stan from M.

?

Hello, you have such big job, thank you.? the ship Karamin, could they have been speaking of departing or arriving at Kermine before Krasnovodsk?

§¢§Ý§Ñ§Ô§à§ã§Ý§à§Ó§Ö§ß§Ú§ñ (Blessings)

Lenarda, Australia

?

From: Kresy-Siberia@... [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@...] On Behalf Of Stanislaw Zwierzynski
Sent: Saturday, 23 March, 2013 9:13 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.

?

?

Dear John,

Of course, you are probably right!
Its hard to me to understand?living English text . The girls were saying, that I understand that they departed on March 24.
Now I think they were in the same storm that A.Chroscielewski.

You guessed storm began on March 27 - as departure A.Chroscielewski. I think - one day later, and a day later he was leaving Krasnovodsk.

Now I think that in the morning on March 24 was send only one official ship, which arrived in Pahlavi morning 25.

The source said that? FIRST ship was called "Karamin" - but this is a mistake. That ship was not in the Caspian Sea, the Russian word means nothing.
Close by name two words:
1) tanker "Komintern" (Lenin series) - but he could?take more?passengers than 1387, - three times as much.
2) the kind of ship, code-named "Karamzin" - the Russian translation is added only one letter "z" - was a well-known Russian historian. But I have not found such?ship in all known lists.

Based on your words, commenting on the interview A.Chroscielewski.

?

I assume that the storm aws March 28 in the late afternoon (or night), and hence his departure was not 27 March (as you think through indirect sources, which are not shown).

This is why.
He says that they were picked up at sea another ship on the fourth day and then delivered to?Pahlavi.
Let's consider those.

In March - 31 days.

If the origine ship had left Krasnowodsk on March 27 at 2 pm, even picking up from March 31 - get 5 days on the road, and if he picked April 1 - 6 days all the way!
Therefore ship (of A. Chroscielewski could leave only at 2 pm on March 28, to bring a storm on the night of 28/29, to be picked up on March 31 in a day, and in the morning 01 April - arrived in Pahlavi.

Maybe I'm wrong.
Let's discuss it. We need to find information abot storm in Caspij 27 or 28 March.

Stan.

?

From: John Halucha <john.halucha@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.

?

Frances, is?Francis Omylak your father? The site that Lenarda shared tells quite the story!

Can you tell us precisely how your father's documents express that he arrived at Pahlevi March 27? If they say "Arrival at Pahlevi March 27" then that is very concrete, but if there is some room for interpretation as there was in my father's documents, this date may not be hard and fast.

My father is listed as signing up with the 8th Infantry Division in the Soviet Union on March 30, and coming under British Command in Persia on April 1. For some time, I assumed this meant he arrived in Pahlevi April 1. However, following extensive discussion of this date on forum several of us feel confident now that April 1 was a "deemed" date for coming under British Command because some of us know for certain that arrival was prior to or some days after April 1. So I raise the question in case your father, as an aviator, may have been deemed to have arrived in Pahlevi March 27 as soldiers like my father were deemed to come under British Command April 1 even if they had not yet arrived.

Another possibility is that your father arrived earlier than March 27 but it took a day or two before he was processed by the bureaucrats on that date. Depending on actual wording in the documents, all this may be cleared up very easily.

?

Stan, what confirms that there was a big storm on March 25 and there was no ship traffic that day?

The girl you mention is at?

but she does not give precise a precise date: ?"It was March 1942; Some 2 years after our arrest; Alina and I were now sixteen. From Krasnovodsk we were put on a fishing ship to Pahlevia in Persia (now Iran). There was a terrible storm on the Caspian Sea that night; the ship was crashing through the waves and was so crowded there wasn?€?t room to stand. Everything went over board ?€¡° the vomit, the excreta, and the dead. (A similar vessel with Poles on board sunk that night, with all souls)."

?

There is mention of a storm in a video of?Antoni Chroscielewski video at

??

My translation from the Polish no doubt could use improvement, but more or less he says:

"It was a beautiful day, at the start [date not given, but from context I make it March 27], and everyone was ecstatic to at last be escaping that hell. The ship departed about 2 p.m. The sea was very calm, but after awhile there were gentle long waves that you couldn't see, but we could start to feel it. Then fog arrived, and a storm started. Many of the people started to get sick. It turned out that there was no drinking water on the ship. After that salty soup and salted fish, after those herrings, there was no water. It was a tragedy, truly.

The storm was so huge on this sea, the Caspian, that it was literally throwing the ship around. Water was flowing over the deck, where the people were, and several were probably washed overboard without anyone knowing about it. I had to run to the side every so often to be sick. If the ship had tilted and a wave came, I also would have been washed overboard since there was no way I could hold on the the sort of barrier there.

Unfortunately, the ship was damaged during the night, during the storm. The rudder was ripped off or something like that. We drifted on the Caspian Sea for about three days, without water, without anything. I had to endure the sun because there was no kind of shade, so you had to stay out in the sun. By the third day you didn't care if the ship would sink or not, a person was so exhausted. We even tried to haul up some water, from the sea, but that made for an even worse effect. It was not until the fourth day that a different ship drew up and we transferred to it - on the sea, on the very sea.

We arrived at Pahlevi, Iran, on April 1, 1942"

?

From this, it appears to me that the storm was March 27 or later rather than on March 25.

?

What makes you conclude that there was no shipment on March 25? Some sources speak of the first arrivals being that day and mention no storms. In fact, it may be that one of our own, Ed Bator, arrived on March 25. Ed, do I have that right?

?

John Halucha

Sault Ste Marie, Canada

?

From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@..." <Kresy-Siberia@...>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 4:45:52 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.

?

Thank you dear Francis! This is an important clarification.


1. It indirectly confirms that March 25 was a big storm and a small boat with Poles sank - about it somebody wrote (the girl, I do not remember the name).
2. Confirms that on March 25 there was no shipment, as it was a storm. Evacuation was continued on 26 March.

Stan from M.

?

From: Frances <frncsgts@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@...
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Francis Omylak - Kermine Krasnovodsk Pahlevi Ahwazu Llyda Suez Glasgow - pre-war aviator.

?

Hello Stan The date of departure from Kermine was 22 Msrch 1942; from Krasnovodsk 24 March - and arrival in Pahlevi 27 March. I have my father's documents showing these dates. Frances