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Locked
Re: Paypal
AND, you pay tax on $250.
73,
Gary
WB6OGD
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Locked
Re: Paypal
If you have "proof" that you are taking a loss (receipt from when you bought said radio for $800), you can use that to offset any gain. But if you don't have any gain (sold said radio for $250) you can't take the loss........... -----Original Message-----
From: Robert Needleman via groups.io <k3ac@...> To: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2022 10:39 am Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] Paypal Bob,
?
It's relevant because when selling Hallicrafters, and other vintage gear, you're usually doing it as a LOSS (at least that's almost always the case for me) , you have no documentation? (or rarely so) of your cost basis if you purchased it many years ago, etc. So what will happen is this item will add to the total amount of radio sales you do on PayPal and once you exceed $600/annum, that will trigger a 1099 from the IRS, reported by PayPal. You will have to pay tax on this amount, which IRS considers as income (as if you were a small internet business), even though you've sold these items at a LOSS. So you get screwed, having to pay tax on items in which you LOST MONEY, not made a profit, as regular business do selling merchandise. So you're going to wind up taking a bigger loss by accepting payment using Paypal, than if you had sold it by using another method like check/MO/bank transfer. It's not a matter of trying to avoid paying tax and cheating the IRS - it's a matter of being unfairly ltaxed on items you've sold where you've already taken a loss, and then have to pay tax on top of that, for an even bigger loss!
Got it?
?
Bob K3AC
In a message dated 9/22/2022 10:19:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, rwkembel@... writes: ?
Hi all,
?
Not sure I see the relevance of the discussion regarding the IRS as far as Hallicrafters radios. Unless you are cheating on your taxes, I don't see how additional IRS agents is likely to affect the majority of honest people. Unless ham radio is a business and you are actually making a profit on sales, then perhaps you should treat it as a business and report the income (and expenses on a Schedule C form). This allows you to deduct 'business' related expenses such as the acquisition costs, supplies, and other expenses. I would venture that most of us spend more on our "hobby business" than we make as income. I know that I spend much more on my hobby than anything I might get by selling the occasional restored radio. Yes it is a nuisance to treat your hobby as a business (if you are selling items), but it is nice to be able to offset that income with acquisition costs, test equipment, supplies (wire, solder, caps, resistors, tubes, mileage, hamfest admissions, etc).
?
On the other hand, we are all subsidizing those that don't pay their fair share of taxes.
?
"The IRS is woefully understaffed and will miss about $600 billion in uncollected taxes this year as it grapples with technology built before humans landed on the moon, according to Deputy Treasury Department Secretary Wally Adeyemo."
?
Those missed taxes work out to about $2000 per individual that we are all paying to subsidize those uncollected taxes. Nobody likes taxes, but since they are a fact of life, the least we can do is make sure that everyone pays their fair share.
?
Bob,? K7DYB
?
On 9/22/2022 9:28 AM, Larry Steeno wrote:
I wonder if the newly minted IRS agents will be posted at all the local ham fests and garage sales????
Larry
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Locked
Re: Paypal
You can then start singing "they're coming to take me away haha..." Bob. W4JFA On Thu, Sep 22, 2022, 9:28 AM Larry Steeno <oneets123@...> wrote:
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Locked
Re: Paypal
Just avoid using PayPal (receiving payment 'as merchandise'). Accept only PP? F/F cash transfers, or require payment by check/MO/interbank. For now at least, you should be able to avoid this issue entirely. Why I posted this to begin with. I'm ending my thread here as it's a bit off topic for this group but I wanted to get this information out as PayPal is now notifying individuals accepting payments for merchandise about their new 1099 policy.
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Bob K3AC
In a message dated 9/22/2022 10:55:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, johnk5mo@... writes: ?
"Unless ham radio is a business and you are actually making a profit on sales, then perhaps you should treat it as a business"
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So what the IRS has created is a situation where you're presumed to be in a business, even though one is NOT in a business. I have an extensive 40 yr collection of gear.? Of course I didn't keep a log of my cost basis because 99% of this equipment came from hamfests/garage sales, etc where no such thing is routinely given.? But with the IRS one is guilty until proven innocent.
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Hobbies (ALL hobbies) involve a great deal of buying and selling, and the $600 bar is set low enough to trigger most everyone into treating their hobby as a business, which it clearly isn't .
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Of course the very wealthy have accountants who structure wealth in such a way to avoid taxes, the poor pay none, and the middle class will bear the burden of 75,000 new IRS agents.
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As always.
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John K5MO
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On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 10:19 AM Robert Kembel <rwkembel@...> wrote:
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Locked
Re: Paypal
"Unless ham radio is a business and you are actually making a
profit on sales, then perhaps you should treat it as a business" So what the IRS has created is a situation where you're presumed to be in a business, even though one is NOT in a business. I have an extensive 40 yr collection of gear.? Of course I didn't keep a log of my cost basis because 99% of this equipment came from hamfests/garage sales, etc where no such thing is routinely given.? But with the IRS one is guilty until proven innocent. Hobbies (ALL hobbies) involve a great deal of buying and selling, and the $600 bar is set low enough to trigger most everyone into treating their hobby as a business, which it clearly isn't . Of course the very wealthy have accountants who structure wealth in such a way to avoid taxes, the poor pay none, and the middle class will bear the burden of 75,000 new IRS agents. As always. John K5MO On Thu, Sep 22, 2022 at 10:19 AM Robert Kembel <rwkembel@...> wrote:
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Locked
Re: Paypal
To my knowledge, sales between private individuals done at a hamfest are not subject to State tax. That however is a requirement if it is a sale by a merchant, regardless of whether it's at the hamfest (ie. within the State) or an online purchase, if your State has a State sales tax. Most online merchants are now adding State sales tax to internet purchases, as appropriate (eg. HRO, DX Engineering, etc).? I am not aware that PayPal is submitting sales information to individual State Depts. of Revenue, however that may be in the future?. Stay tuned! (Another reason I'm advising against using PayPal for selling your hallicrafters and other vintage gear).
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Bob K3AC
In a message dated 9/22/2022 10:40:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, thoyer1@... writes: ?
I attend several big car flea market events in Carlisle PA. The PA Dept of Revenue has been on the grounds handing out forms for payment of sales tax. Several of the out of state vendors as well as some local vendors have stopped attending due to this.
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Tom
W3TA -----Original Message-----
From: Larry Steeno <oneets123@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2022 9:28 am Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] Paypal I wonder if the newly minted IRS agents will be posted at all the local ham fests and garage sales????
Larry
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Locked
Re: Paypal
I attend several big car flea market events in Carlisle PA. The PA Dept of Revenue has been on the grounds handing out forms for payment of sales tax. Several of the out of state vendors as well as some local vendors have stopped attending due to this.
Tom
W3TA -----Original Message-----
From: Larry Steeno <oneets123@...> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, Sep 22, 2022 9:28 am Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] Paypal I wonder if the newly minted IRS agents will be posted at all the local ham fests and garage sales????
Larry
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Locked
Re: Paypal
Bob,
?
It's relevant because when selling Hallicrafters, and other vintage gear, you're usually doing it as a LOSS (at least that's almost always the case for me) , you have no documentation? (or rarely so) of your cost basis if you purchased it many years ago, etc. So what will happen is this item will add to the total amount of radio sales you do on PayPal and once you exceed $600/annum, that will trigger a 1099 from the IRS, reported by PayPal. You will have to pay tax on this amount, which IRS considers as income (as if you were a small internet business), even though you've sold these items at a LOSS. So you get screwed, having to pay tax on items in which you LOST MONEY, not made a profit, as regular business do selling merchandise. So you're going to wind up taking a bigger loss by accepting payment using Paypal, than if you had sold it by using another method like check/MO/bank transfer. It's not a matter of trying to avoid paying tax and cheating the IRS - it's a matter of being unfairly ltaxed on items you've sold where you've already taken a loss, and then have to pay tax on top of that, for an even bigger loss!
Got it?
?
Bob K3AC
In a message dated 9/22/2022 10:19:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, rwkembel@... writes: ?
Hi all,
?
Not sure I see the relevance of the discussion regarding the IRS as far as Hallicrafters radios. Unless you are cheating on your taxes, I don't see how additional IRS agents is likely to affect the majority of honest people. Unless ham radio is a business and you are actually making a profit on sales, then perhaps you should treat it as a business and report the income (and expenses on a Schedule C form). This allows you to deduct 'business' related expenses such as the acquisition costs, supplies, and other expenses. I would venture that most of us spend more on our "hobby business" than we make as income. I know that I spend much more on my hobby than anything I might get by selling the occasional restored radio. Yes it is a nuisance to treat your hobby as a business (if you are selling items), but it is nice to be able to offset that income with acquisition costs, test equipment, supplies (wire, solder, caps, resistors, tubes, mileage, hamfest admissions, etc).
?
On the other hand, we are all subsidizing those that don't pay their fair share of taxes.
?
"The IRS is woefully understaffed and will miss about $600 billion in uncollected taxes this year as it grapples with technology built before humans landed on the moon, according to Deputy Treasury Department Secretary Wally Adeyemo."
?
Those missed taxes work out to about $2000 per individual that we are all paying to subsidize those uncollected taxes. Nobody likes taxes, but since they are a fact of life, the least we can do is make sure that everyone pays their fair share.
?
Bob,? K7DYB
?
On 9/22/2022 9:28 AM, Larry Steeno wrote:
I wonder if the newly minted IRS agents will be posted at all the local ham fests and garage sales????
Larry
? |
Locked
Re: Paypal
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi all,
Not sure I see the relevance of the
discussion regarding the IRS as far as Hallicrafters radios.
Unless you are cheating on your taxes, I don't see how additional
IRS agents is likely to affect the majority of honest people.
Unless ham radio is a business and you are actually making a
profit on sales, then perhaps you should treat it as a business
and report the income (and expenses on a Schedule C form). This
allows you to deduct 'business' related expenses such as the
acquisition costs, supplies, and other expenses. I would venture
that most of us spend more on our "hobby business" than we make as
income. I know that I spend much more on my hobby than anything I
might get by selling the occasional restored radio. Yes it is a
nuisance to treat your hobby as a business (if you are selling
items), but it is nice to be able to offset that income with
acquisition costs, test equipment, supplies (wire, solder, caps,
resistors, tubes, mileage, hamfest admissions, etc).
On the other hand, we are all
subsidizing those that don't pay their fair share of taxes.
"The IRS is woefully understaffed and will miss
about $600 billion in uncollected taxes this year as
it grapples with technology built before humans landed on the
moon, according to Deputy Treasury Department Secretary Wally
Adeyemo."
Those missed taxes work out to about $2000 per
individual that we are all paying to subsidize those
uncollected taxes. Nobody likes taxes, but since they are a
fact of life, the least we can do is make sure that everyone
pays their fair share.
Bob,? K7DYB
On 9/22/2022 9:28 AM, Larry Steeno
wrote:
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Locked
Re: Paypal
Remember, the Government is your "Friend" and they are only going after the "rich." Think about what Reagan said about the government. 73 Bob |
Locked
Re: Paypal
I wonder if the newly minted IRS agents will be posted at all the local ham fests and garage sales???? Larry |
Locked
Re: Paypal
Yes, the $600 is for the entire year - and that includes the shipping you were paid.??You pay commission on the 'item's selling price + shipping'. And...shipping is included as income, so your 1099 form will be 'sold items + shipping' that you were paid. Of course, shipping is an expense and can be deducted. I'm not a tax guy, just a frequent seller on eBay.
Jeff KI4VGD |
Locked
Re: Paypal
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýI know i should not say this ??but?? with the new cameras everywhere? ?and all that face recognition software,? all the swap ¡°sites¡± and BARTERING ¡°sites¡±? will soon? be catching you ?bartering? and they will use an ebay-price list ?to look-up how much ?to tax you for that black box. ? Also ?way off topic ....?? Remember the time?? long ago when ?it cost a Nickel or dime? to use a stall in the washroom of ??the big department stores. They get you coming and going. Ok ill quit now Don VA3DRL ? From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of KW4H via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2022 2:46 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [HallicraftersRadios] Paypal ? Mike, ? The current solution to the tax grab is to simply not use PayPal or eBay to sell anything.? Next up, however, they will try to implement the digital dollar and dispense with cash and checks ¨C and try to control every cent you spend and tax everything coming in no matter the source.? At that point we move to barter (e.g., ¡°I¡¯ll restore your <fill in the blank> in trade for your <fill in the blank>¡±). ? 73 ¨C Steve, KW4H
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Locked
Re: Paypal
Gotta have? something for those 75,000 newly minted brown shi, errr...IRS agents to do. John k5mo On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 2:45 PM KW4H via <reedsteve=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: SX-111 w/speaker FS
Credit card transactions are not likely to ever be taxed because they are not considered "third party" payers. They are used largely by businesses and other large vendors, not private individuals. And credit cards can charge (often exorbitant) interest on purchases. This whole issue with notification of IRS by PayPal of private sales came about because of the rapid rise of private internet businesses cropping up on Ebay and elsewhere, where individuals are making huge amounts of money, not paying any tax on sales using PayPal, and other 'third party" payers and escaping their federal tax obligation as a business. That is my take on this issue and what will happen in the future regarding IRS policies is anyone's guess, but for now, it's my understanding that credit card transactions are outside of this issue.
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Bob K3AC
In a message dated 9/21/2022 2:55:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, drootofallevil@... writes: ?
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Re: SX-111 w/speaker FS
well again off topic? but what happens if? you use a credit card or some e-transfer .... does it go to govt for taxing??
ill? bet ? soon money orders? etc will get? taxed too? cheques too? only thing left is Hard cash?? ... just to to a track ..most want cash only. i am not a seller so dont know? all this stuff ...just asking I cant get paypal to work? any more has it for 22 years , BUT pw is problem ...still.. VA3DRL |
Locked
Re: Paypal
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýMike, ? The current solution to the tax grab is to simply not use PayPal or eBay to sell anything.? Next up, however, they will try to implement the digital dollar and dispense with cash and checks ¨C and try to control every cent you spend and tax everything coming in no matter the source.? At that point we move to barter (e.g., ¡°I¡¯ll restore your <fill in the blank> in trade for your <fill in the blank>¡±). ? 73 ¨C Steve, KW4H ? From: <[email protected]> on behalf of nm7x <Radionorthstar@...> ? So, does anybody know what happens if you sell your Novice station from the 1960s for less money then you paid for it, but don't have the original receipts? This policy has the potential to create a lot of landfill! Mike Gorniak, NM7X On 9/21/2022 1:17 PM, Robert Needleman via groups.io wrote:
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Locked
Re: Paypal
Mike - just don't accept PayPal as payment (as 'merchandise'). Otherwise your buyer can submit a warranty claim up to 6 months for a full or patial refund if the equipment develops a problem or they decide it's not exactly as you described it in your listing. Or, just donate it all to one of the school radio clubs and avoid the whole mess, and take it as a charitable deduction and beat the IRS at their own game, hi!
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Bob K3AC
In a message dated 9/21/2022 2:27:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, Radionorthstar@... writes: ?
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Locked
Re: Paypal
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýSo, does anybody know what happens if you sell your Novice station from the 1960s for less money then you paid for it, but don't have the original receipts? This policy has the potential to create a lot of landfill! Mike Gorniak, NM7X On 9/21/2022 1:17 PM, Robert Needleman
via groups.io wrote:
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Locked
Re: Paypal
Gary - a USPS MO is safe for the buyer. That's because if it's lost or stolen, you can get your money back. It will take several months to go through all the paperwork the USPS requires, but you will eventually get the money back (I've had to do that with a USPS MO that was lost in the mail a few years back).
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Bob K3AC
In a message dated 9/21/2022 1:17:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, garywinblad@... writes: ?
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