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Unwanted duplicates sent.

RickGlaz
 

I was referred FROM the beta group to here because they might think it is "operator error".
It is not, and can tell one clearly marked GUI button from another.

Instead of listing lots of steps and symptoms that ARE 'repeatable'
I'd like to ask a simple question of the members here instead.

Does anyone use the 1+1 WEBmail hosting service to reply to messages from any Groups.IO group?
AKA I have multiple Owned Domains running from there.

The opinion on the Group I'm in seems to be I am the only one with the problem.
When I joined my first listserver around the time of Win3.11(WFWG) I discovered I was not
the only person with certain problems. The is the (or "a") wonderful thing about Groups.
The others include giving or getting help.

I'm looking for ANY others with odd duplicate messages complaints.

Disclaimer:
Why I don't just post at /g/CHAD/messages is another whole personal
requirements or personal preferences story. My position is you should be able to reply
from the interface of your choice. If it does not work for some reason, the cause needs
to be looked into and corrected by the proper people.

Rick

Sent from my 1+1-WEBmail. BCC: Me
 

Rick,

I'm looking for ANY others with odd duplicate messages complaints.

Disclaimer:
Why I don't just post at /g/CHAD/messages is another whole personal
requirements or personal preferences story.

Can you describe the duplicates?

That is, do multiple copies of your message arrive in the group (either pending, if moderated, or posted to the group's Messages section)? That would imply a glitch in the server-to-server transfer of the reply from your email service to Groups.io - it is possible for your service to believe the transfer failed and it tries again (producing the duplicate) yet Groups.io actually received the message each time.

Or does specifically the person you reply to receive a duplicate copy (one directly from your email, one via the group)? That would imply a "Reply to All" type of situation where your email interface addressed your reply to both the sender and the group.

Or something else?

Shal


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RickGlaz
 

Your second choice nails the "meat" of the problem. (Then comes all the buts...)
Thank You for being open today.

I send from 1+1, One message one time NOT TO ALL but it is repeatable to anyone I reply to
that I received through the .IO-Group. ( received AT 1+1...)

When replying to a message the last person in the message gets an ON group
reply and OFF group reply. I'm obviously involved but do NOT ask for that.

Members (and I) are saying this "CAN'T HAPPEN" but I assure you it can...
I was not able to track down IF the notation "VIA" has anything to do with this or not.
Some members are less than responsive in helping with this so I could tell you more.

To make this worse, starting yesterday, and BEFORE I first mentioned this AT 1+1,
I got e-mail bounces for SOME members showing their personal dup failed,
BUT NOT ALL the ones that were incorrectly sent. LOTS still got them.
To make all "that" worse, the guy's e-mail that bounces "this type" of message the MOST,
is one of the most nasty and uncooperative.

1+1 is also looking into that on their end, has a couple copies of different bounces,
and will get back to me. I was told it was escalated to the ADMIN Level there.
I've been on the phone with them a half dozen times.

You can have anything you want. Would group message numbers help?
Copies of the bounces?
"HERE", (this Group) is not the place I think, which is why I was just asking
the generic question, sound familiar to anyone. Thanks.

Rick

On March 30, 2018 at 1:42 PM Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:


Rick,

I'm looking for ANY others with odd duplicate messages complaints.

Disclaimer:
Why I don't just post at /g/CHAD/messages is another
whole personal
requirements or personal preferences story.

Can you describe the duplicates?

That is, do multiple copies of your message arrive in the group (either
pending, if moderated, or posted to the group's Messages section)? That
would imply a glitch in the server-to-server transfer of the reply from
your email service to Groups.io - it is possible for your service to
believe the transfer failed and it tries again (producing the duplicate)
yet Groups.io actually received the message each time.

Or does specifically the person you reply to receive a duplicate copy (one
directly from your email, one via the group)? That would imply a "Reply to
All" type of situation where your email interface addressed your reply to
both the sender and the group.

Or something else?

Shal
 

Rick,

Your second choice nails the "meat" of the problem.

And true to form, I received a copy direct and one via GMF.
?
Thank You for being open today.

Lunch break at work.
?
I send from 1+1, One message one time NOT TO ALL but it is repeatable to anyone I reply to
that I received through the .IO-Group. ( received AT 1+1...)

Regardless of what your user interface is telling you, it is quite apparent that the message was sent to both addresses:


When replying to a message the last person in the message gets an ON group
reply and OFF group reply. I'm obviously involved but do NOT ask for that.

I would expect there to be a control somewhere in your user interface for how the Reply function is handled. In Gmail there is a choice in the Settings page:


?
To make this worse, starting yesterday, and BEFORE I first mentioned this AT 1+1,
I got e-mail bounces for SOME members showing their personal dup failed,

Some people's email services may be set to reject all messages except those on a whitelist, or some of them may reject your direct message because they find your service's outbound server on a RBL (blacklist of spam sources).
?
1+1 is also looking into that on their end, has a couple copies of different bounces,
and will get back to me. I was told it was escalated to the ADMIN Level there.

Yeah, no email service really likes to have their users' outbound messages rejected, particularly if the stated reason impugns the reputation of the service.
?
"HERE", (this Group) is not the place I think, which is why I was just asking
the generic question, sound familiar to anyone.

GMF is a user-to-user group, no Groups.io staff here, if that's what you mean. Still, others have had this problem before (though I don't recall if 1+1 was involved) so I was curious to see which problem it was.

Shal


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RickGlaz
 

REply to #6737 by reference only.
Big change: THIS current reply is posted using the?GroupManagersForum page.

Thank you for your kind reply. I'm a very experienced user and no settings are wrong.
I mistook you for a staff member. Your answers were very good in the few weeks I
have been here.

After this it got worse.
For full disclosure, I do not do ANY type of auto forwards of any type in
any of my Domains or Email Accounts. "Keep it simple"...

That message #6737 wound up posted at Yahoo Groups as??#206538
and was not sent there by me.
All I added was the BCC.(the same address used to send this.)
This is getting crazier by the moment.
I sent from 1+1 WEBmail, to this Group, [email protected],
Not reply to all, but WITH a BCC to myself. (the same address used to send this.)
Not sure I needed that BCC.

As I said, a copy went to Yahoo and appears there.
It was apparently approved by T.H. as a courtesy because he knows
we are trying to fix this. The info it contains is WRONG there as it should not
be there. (So much for pronouns.)

I would assume I need to move up the chain and write to .IO support.
Thank you for your very detailed reply.

I'm VERY glad you have seen this before.
While I'd like to see this fixed it is becoming abundantly clear adding 1+1 into
the mix causes too many problems.

Rick
?
 

Rick -- I'm the one who suggested you post here instead of beta in hopes that someone here might have experienced a similar issue.

If you responded to a message here and it ended up in Yahoo without any action on your part you probably have an email worm of some kind. In any event there is nothing that groups.io support can do to keep your email server/client combo at 1&1 from sending out extra emails.

Regards,
Bruce

-- Sent from my humble desktop computer

----- Original Message -----
From: RickGlaz <rickglaz4742435@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Fri, 30 Mar 2018 17:35:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [GMF] Unwanted duplicates sent.

REply to #6737 by reference only.
Big change: THIS current reply is posted using the?GroupManagersForum page.

Thank you for your kind reply. I'm a very experienced user and no settings are wrong.
I mistook you for a staff member. Your answers were very good in the few weeks I
have been here.

After this it got worse.
For full disclosure, I do not do ANY type of auto forwards of any type in
any of my Domains or Email Accounts. "Keep it simple"...

That message #6737 wound up posted at Yahoo Groups as??#206538
and was not sent there by me.
All I added was the BCC.(the same address used to send this.)
This is getting crazier by the moment.
I sent from 1+1 WEBmail, to this Group, [email protected],
Not reply to all, but WITH a BCC to myself. (the same address used to send this.)
Not sure I needed that BCC.

As I said, a copy went to Yahoo and appears there.
It was apparently approved by T.H. as a courtesy because he knows
we are trying to fix this. The info it contains is WRONG there as it should not
be there. (So much for pronouns.)

I would assume I need to move up the chain and write to .IO support.
Thank you for your very detailed reply.

I'm VERY glad you have seen this before.
While I'd like to see this fixed it is becoming abundantly clear adding 1+1 into
the mix causes too many problems.

Rick
RickGlaz
 

Thanks, I just quit the Yahoo Group as we were all moving to "here" anyway.
That problem is solved. (Nothing NEW shows up there when no membership exists.)

I'm a little confused how a worm can affect my 1+1 WEBmail, but I really do not want
to use that anymore as it is way too much trouble here. I use Google Chrome with
almost no extensions.

It worked perfect for many years but at Yahoo I generally posted from the Yahoo Group
WEB site Message Poster Page.
OR My Yahoo branded Yahoo WEBmail account. I thought the Yahoo to Yahoo thing
might/should work better and it 'most times' did until Yahoo started circling the drain.
Plus the e-mail address was free.

The Domain I'm using is about a month or two old and has never been used with
any local client email program. This happens from multiple devices.
Those devices by design are not networked.
The entire situation is way to crazy for me.

One other thing about the odd stuff... I joined "here" using my Yahoo
WEBmail address, but as that had intermittent outages I switched my
"membership"? email address "globally"? here to what you see now.

Thanks for your help, Rick


On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 03:12 pm, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Rick -- I'm the one who suggested you post here instead of beta in hopes that someone here might have experienced a similar issue.

If you responded to a message here and it ended up in Yahoo without any action on your part you probably have an email worm of some kind. In any event there is nothing that groups.io support can do to keep your email server/client combo at 1&1 from sending out extra emails.

Regards,
Bruce

-- Sent from my humble desktop computer

[excess quote trimmed by moderator]
 

Rick,

Thank you for your kind reply. I'm a very experienced user and no settings are wrong.

That may be. But I can tell you unequivocally that your email service sent your reply to (at least) my personal address and to GMF's posting address. As I showed you, those were both in the To field. So whatever is going on, is happening on your service.
?
That message #6737 wound up posted at Yahoo Groups as??#206538
and was not sent there by me.

Possibly its View Source, if I had access to it, would show how my message got there. Any GMF member could have forwarded it.
?
All I added was the BCC.(the same address used to send this.)

BCC means what it says (Blind), so I have no way of knowing where else your service may have sent your reply.

Not sure I needed that BCC.

It has the advantage of allowing you to see the message's source (original) headers, if your interface has that feature. You can verify for yourself that the message as sent contains both my personal address and GMF's posting address.

I would assume I need to move up the chain and write to .IO support.

At this point I agree with Bruce: it looks like the trouble is all outside of Groups.io - and inside your email service.
?
Shal


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Rick,

One other thing about the odd stuff... I joined "here" using my Yahoo
WEBmail address, but as that had intermittent outages I switched my
"membership"? email address "globally"? here to what you see now.

I see no change of address for you in GMF's Activity logs, so perhaps you changed your address before joining this group on March 12th. In any case, yes, if you changed your address on your Account page that changes it for all of your Groups.io subscriptions.

Shal


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RickGlaz
 

Almost sent this from 1+1 but copy and pasted to .IO to prevent "the problem".
I should always just use this here. .IO

I looked at the outgoing headers in the sent box and "there" it does not show a BCC.
It does not show a send to Yahoo either.? not regular, CC or BCC.
I do not look at outgoing headers much and the BCC part is something I might
have never looked for before.
?
Bad news is, since the Yahoo post contained the wrong references to locations as
pronouns "it" was basically giving out bad info as a result. So I manually deleted it
from the Group archives.
AND quit that Group at the same time so this could never happen again.
Certain members of the .IO Group get into a feeding frenzy when having to see problems
like this. I got the one off Yahoo Groups as fast as I could, almost.
I would be happy to send that as the copy I Got in my now former Yahoo Groups account
as WEBmail at 1+1WEBmail. That would be what every other member would have gotten
using a local client email program.
IF that is just as good, and is acceptable, just ask. I see your email address using my 1+1.
?
According to what I TRIED to do,
The BCC to self should have come within 3-5 seconds of hitting the send/reply button.
A little later, after moderation, BOTH of us would have gotten it. If sent from 1+1 you would
get two... I'm starting to loose track. I'm on my fifth typo search and add...
?
I never got the BCC, and there is nothing here that says I sent to Yahoo.
?
We need to stop because I am not trying to drive you crazy, but I'm getting there.
?
I do accept your advice in the sense that using 1+1 here is not wise for whatever reason.
I no longer want to pursue this on a semi-public forum.
?
I do appreciate your efforts but when someone tells you impossible things are
happening they (I) might seem demented.?

Throwing in the towel, Rick? ? Email copy offer above still stands.

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 05:01 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
Rick,

Thank you for your kind reply. I'm a very experienced user and no settings are wrong.
?
That may be. But I can tell you unequivocally that your email service sent your reply to (at least) my personal address and to GMF's posting address. As I showed you, those were both in the To field. So whatever is going on, is happening on your service.
?
That message #6737 wound up posted at Yahoo Groups as??#206538
and was not sent there by me.
?
Possibly its View Source, if I had access to it, would show how my message got there. Any GMF member could have forwarded it.
?
?
All I added was the BCC.(the same address used to send this.)
?
BCC means what it says (Blind), so I have no way of knowing where else your service may have sent your reply.

Not sure I needed that BCC.
?
It has the advantage of allowing you to see the message's source (original) headers, if your interface has that feature. You can verify for yourself that the message as sent contains both my personal address and GMF's posting address.

I would assume I need to move up the chain and write to .IO support.
?
At this point I agree with Bruce: it looks like the trouble is all outside of Groups.io - and inside your email service.
?
Shal


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RickGlaz
 

Thanks for the date, it made it way easier.
Here Is what I see at my "joining account" email.
To see the time, scroll to the right. Or repeated here:?Mar 11 at 5:22 PM

The logs apparently are wrong? Stuff happens?
OR, did I close that in a day and open as another?
I think the first, but could be wrong.
Could a change that quick miss being logged?
I do appreciate your efforts and do not want either of us to look bad or wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Groups.io?<[email protected]>
To:rickglaz4742435@...
?
Mar 11 at 5:22 PM
?

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in the?[email protected]?group at Groups.io. If you did not request or do not want to join [email protected], please ignore this message.

If you only want to send and receive messages from [email protected], reply to this email to confirm your email address and activate your membership.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 05:31 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
Rick,

One other thing about the odd stuff... I joined "here" using my Yahoo
WEBmail address, but as that had intermittent outages I switched my
"membership"? email address "globally"? here to what you see now.
?
I see no change of address for you in GMF's Activity logs, so perhaps you changed your address before joining this group on March 12th. In any case, yes, if you changed your address on your Account page that changes it for all of your Groups.io subscriptions.

Shal


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RickGlaz
 

I forgot the e-mail might not show.
The last part is @YAHOO.com


On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 06:14 pm, RickGlaz wrote:
Thanks for the date, it made it way easier.
Here Is what I see at my "joining account" email.
To see the time, scroll to the right. Or repeated here:?Mar 11 at 5:22 PM

The logs apparently are wrong? Stuff happens?
OR, did I close that in a day and open as another?
I think the first, but could be wrong.
Could a change that quick miss being logged?
I do appreciate your efforts and do not want either of us to look bad or wrong.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Groups.io?<[email protected]>
To:rickglaz4742435@...
?
Mar 11 at 5:22 PM
?

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in the?[email protected]?group at Groups.io. If you did not request or do not want to join [email protected], please ignore this message.

If you only want to send and receive messages from [email protected], reply to this email to confirm your email address and activate your membership.

[excess quote trimmed by moderator]
RickGlaz
 
Edited

Back up the truck and pull the emergency brake.
Same Thread:?/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/16637346#6731
Less reading here:?
?/g/GroupManagersForum/message/6758

I got a better tech rep at 1+1 that understood the problem better than their others.

Thanks to suggestions from Shal, 1+1 (general support) and I did a deep dive
together and found that the "Quick Reply" button at 1+1 WEBmail (the one next to "reply all")
is awful when working or dealing with Groups. TheGroup.IO site for sure. (In full.)

1+1 WEB-mail "Quick Reply" runs off and does all sorts of bizarre things.
A BCC triggers all sorts of stuff even harder to believe. (Not getting into that now.)

I was shown a more hidden way to start a "reply" that actually brings up
a "center of screen dialog box" with questions and additional selections.
The odd thing is? --- THAT dialog box defaults to "reply all" and asks if
you really meant to do that.
(Really<???>) Default is incorrect (IMHO) two times in a row?

Thanks again to Shal, we were searching for the the non-existent setting of
How to reply -- default. (No setting...)

"You can't make this stuff up"

I have not tested ANY of that yet...

Rick
 

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 08:28 am, RickGlaz wrote:
"You can't make this stuff up"
Indeed...they're making Y!Mail sound reputable. Switch to GMail and save yourself the trouble.

Bruce
RickGlaz
 

I'm an award winning volunteer beta tester . ( Not there.)
My theory is let them know so they can fix it.
That is best for everyone.

Rick


On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 12:21 pm, Bruce Bowman wrote:
On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 08:28 am, RickGlaz wrote:
"You can't make this stuff up"
Indeed...they're making Y!Mail sound reputable. Switch to GMail and save yourself the trouble.

Bruce
RickGlaz
 

ALL quoting removed.
Thanks again Shal, your places to look helped 1+1 at least understand the problem.

Part 1)
I'm at 1+1WEBmail and would like to post a picture of these "stupid" buttons.
(Sent from it here might only look attached I guess?)
(If that fails I'll resend it from .IO-WEB)

Part 2)
I'm using a "1+1-workaround" for the dups problem as part of this send.
I'm asking SHAL ONLY to say if he got one or two replies.

IF he says one, ON Group, the thread will seem closed and can be locked.
Thanks to everyone.

Rick

Sent from my 1+1 WEBmail.

1+1-choices-Capture.JPG

 

Rick,

I'm asking SHAL ONLY to say if he got one or two replies.
Only the one via GMF this time.

Shal


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RickGlaz
 

Thanks Shal, Everyone here was correct, 1+1 has to fix the actual problem.
I have a MINIMUM of five ways I can work around it if they do not.

Thanks for everyone's help and patience in this matter.
"Case Closed", Yea!!!

To remind everyone what the root problem IS:
Don't use the "Quick Reply" button.
Broken, at least for Groups.

Rick


On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 03:59 pm, Shal Farley wrote:
Rick,

> I'm asking SHAL ONLY to say if he got one or two replies.

Only the one via GMF this time.

Shal

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