Moderator Access
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Mick,
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In the main menu Owners can select "Admin" and obtain access to a range of options to select. Moderators only get two option links. Yes. The Admin pages available to a moderator depends on the permissions you give that moderator.
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If you open up a moderator's page (from the Members list or the Moderators list), immediately below the Role selection will be a Moderator Permissions section with a list checkboxes for individual permissions. The one "all powerful" permission in that list is Set Moderator Privileges -- with that privilege a moderator is effectively an owner.
Alternatively, can you have more than one Owner? Yes.
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Changing someone's Role to Owner does not affect your own Role (or anyone else's).
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Note however that all owners have equal powers, including the power to demote, remove, or ban other owners. So choose your co-owners wisely. With that caveat, I do generally recommend that a group have at least one or two? additional owners just in case the founder of the group becomes unable to run it, for whatever reason.
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Shal
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¿ªÔÆÌåÓýShal, ? These are hypothetical questions, since you¡¯re suggesting a group have more than one owner. ? Can one owner ban another owner? Can the paying owner of a premium group be banned by a non-paying owner? If there are multiple owners does one owner have any control over the other owners or do all owners have equal control? ? Don |
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It does make sense to have more than one Owner of a group as back up in case one of them leaves or passes away.
But maybe the original Owner of a group could be an Uber-Owner (to suggest a distinguishing moniker for it) and that Uber-Owner could not be banned by any of the other regular Owners nor would those Owners have the permission to delete the group but they could be given all other permissions. And those regular Owners could still ban one another. In case the Uber-Owner should die or disappear and showed no activity on the group for a reasonable length of time, then the one Owner who had the longest tenure as an Owner could become the next Uber-Owner and would then be able to delete the group but could no longer be banned by the other regular Owners. There surely would be a few fine points to iron out but this might be a way to prevent loss of full access to a group when the original Owner is no loger around, for whatever reason. Just ponderng FWIW . . . . Paul M. |
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Paul,
But maybe the original Owner of a group could be an Uber-Owner (toI don't see the advantage of this arrangement over having one owner, and giving these others moderator permissions. In case the Uber-Owner should die or disappear and showed no activityThis is a fairly reasonable rule of succession, but it could apply equally well to a single owner and a pool of moderators. Most senior moderator gets promoted to owner. There surely would be a few fine points to iron out ...A key detail is when to trigger the succession rule. In general one won't know why the owner isn't responsive, only that he/she hasn't taken a visible action. Additionally, Groups.io might internally keep information about the last date/time that each owner's account has visited Groups.io's pages, but that probably won't add much to the picture. I'm a little skeptical about trying to establish a one-size-fits-all timeout for owner activity. Maybe that could be a setting that the group owner establishes. And maybe setting that time could be an opt-in means for automatic succession. In Yahoo Groups there was a time when a group member or moderator could petition to Customer Care to initiate a succession action. CC would require that the person calling for succession show evidence of attempting to contact the owner(s), with no response for a set time. Once the time expired the petitioner was required to run a poll of the membership to nominate a new manager for the group. Yahoo hedged by not removing the original owner, and not promoting a new one. Instead they would give the selected member or moderator full moderator privileges. In this way the original owner(s) could re-assert control if they ever became active again. Now I'm not entirely sure Yahoo's method is worth emulating, but it does have its merits so I put it out there for discussion. Shal -- Help: /static/help More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list |
¿ªÔÆÌåÓý? ? ¡°On Sun, Jul 14, 2019 at 11:40 AM, Holly wrote: How is the moderator promoted to owner if the single owner has disappeared before doing that?¡± ? In my mind, I think assigning a new owner is more of an inheritance issue than a promotion. In my case my group had already been established back in 2000 on YG by the original owner, and a medical issue came up for the original owner which required the group to have a new owner, or the group would be no more. The owner had been looking for a member to help moderate their group while they were going to be incapacitated, but none one in the group at least five years after it was formed, wanted to help the owner moderate except me. What I didn¡¯t know at the time, but maybe the other members did, was the owner was looking for someone to hand off the group too. After about month I got an email from the owner through the group, telling me they were not going to be able to carry on with their group, and they had made me the new owner of the group. I guess since I was the only person that showed any interest in helping the owner, I should be the one that inherits the group. The old owner is still alive, and still a member of the group, but not an active member. So, in my case the owner did not disappear, they just did not want to be the owner anymore. ? Maybe assigning a new owner to a group could be looked at like a Trust, where there the old owner is the trustor, Mark of Groups.io is the trustee, and a named member or members are the beneficiaries. Of course a form would have to be developed, and the trust process would have to be triggered by an action. Just a thought. ? Don ? |
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This seems like a solution in search of a problem.
I like ownership and moderation the way they are and recommend multiple owners as a best practice. I don't like the idea of a super owner that can't be banned because a hacked super account would be difficult to deal with. I prefer rules and procedures for ownership and moderator succession be left to the groups to work out as agreements among the owners, moderators, and group members, and not burn universal rules into the system. Best, Marv |
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Holly,
How is the moderator promoted to owner if the single owner hasMy understanding of Paul's suggestion is that this would be automatic, but the question of how it would be triggered was left as a "fine point". It could be made entirely automatic simply by establishing an inactivity timeout that triggers the succession mechanism. I tend to agree with Geoff and Marv that the current mechanism is sufficient for any group that makes its own succession plans. Hence in my comment I suggested that an automatic timeout be optional - an opt-in that is enabled by setting the inactivity time. Shal -- Help: /static/help More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list |
This seems like a solution in search of a problem.I can see how someone would think that if they've never been in that situation. Having been through two group transfers, one voluntary and one caused by the abandonment of an owner, I understand that this is something that groups.io is going to have to face, if they haven't already. We have also heard from owners who added a second owner and were then pushed out of their own groups. I've had a similar situation where I transferred ownership of a group to another person because I didn't have the time. That person later made a new person an owner, and that person then kicked most of the original members off. Any time you're dealing with humans and bestowing authority, a lot of unexpected things can happen. I don't know if Mark has any kind of an unwritten policy on this, or if it's something he deals with on a case-by-case basis. I can understand how he would need to be the ultimate arbitrator in strange cases, but if an owner had a way to indicate preferred succession, that might be helpful to him. Dano |
Mick Anderson
Shal Farley
Don Grass
Epicatt2
Marvin Waschke
D R Stinson