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One of the members on the Group I moderate has reported that email deliveries to him stopped earlier today. His delivery option is "Individual Emails", and a check of his email delivery history shows no bounces, and that messages are being successfully sent and delivered.? (i.e. 2.0.0. applies)
He has reported that email deliveries from other Groups.io groups are working normally, and that his ISP's? (Videotron) response is "nothing to do with us mate" or words to that effect. "Normal" emails to him work all right, although I haven't tried emailing him via Groups.io yet; that's next on the list.
Has anyone else here experienced anything similar, and if so what was the cause?
Chris
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On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 10:19 PM, I wrote:
I haven't tried emailing him via Groups.io yet; that's next on the list.
In the event that didn't get through either. Chris
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On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 06:19 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
One of the members on the Group I moderate has reported that email deliveries to him stopped earlier today. His delivery option is "Individual Emails", and a check of his email delivery history shows no bounces, and that messages are being successfully sent and delivered.? (i.e. 2.0.0. applies)
He has reported that email deliveries from other Groups.io groups are working normally, and that his ISP's? (Videotron) response is "nothing to do with us mate" or words to that effect. "Normal" emails to him work all right, although I haven't tried emailing him via Groups.io yet; that's next on the list.
Has anyone else here experienced anything similar, and if so what was the cause?
Chris
?One of the reasons has been that the user is subscribed to this group using a different email address. -- Gerald
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One of the members on the Group I moderate has reported that email deliveries to him stopped earlier today. His delivery option is "Individual Emails", and a check of his email delivery history shows no bounces, and that messages are being successfully sent and delivered.? (i.e. 2.0.0. applies)
Did he check his Spam / Junk folder? Messages diverted to Spam are considered successfully delivered as far as the email protocols are concerned.
Sometimes too an email service will delay the delivery of messages it thinks are suspicious. They can do this either by giving them a temporary rejection (4.x.x response code) or by accepting the message and holding onto it internally.
He has reported that email deliveries from other Groups.io groups are working normally, and that his ISP's? (Videotron) response is "nothing to do with us mate" or words to that effect.
Yeah, "that's what they all say". If the messages are being delayed they may not see that as a problem.
"Normal" emails to him work all right, although I haven't tried emailing him via Groups.io yet; that's next on the list.
That kind of selectivity feels like anti-spam processing to me. Normal mail processing is agnostic as to the source of the message, and is completely oblivious to the message content (apart from size limits or things like that).
Shal
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On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:22 AM, Gerald Boutin wrote:
One of the reasons has been that the user is subscribed to this group using a different email address.
Different to what, though? The situation here is that he was receiving (individual) emails up to some point in time, after which they simply didn't appear. The Groups.io delivery record shows that a test message was received by his Service Provider without demur (2.0.0.) but he still didn't receive it. Emails sent from "my" eamil address work fine; the test message was from me snet from the web UI as "Group Owner" and that didn't work. Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice. Chris
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On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:36 AM, Shal Farley wrote:
Did he check his Spam / Junk folder?
He certainly said that he had done that, and I have no reason to doubt him. I get the feeling that he is definitely IT - savvy enough to enable him to participate in a meaningful way (!!) and FWIW he had been in touch with his ISP before referring the matter to the triumvirate of Owner/Moderators. Definitely a puzzle. Chris
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On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 01:52 PM, I wrote:
Definitely a puzzle.
...which seems to be been resolved, at least for now. Our afflicted member has had another session with his ISP (videotron) and reported back to us as follows. The only edit I have carried out is to anonymise our Group
During the last month (December 2018) there have been 57 reports from one or several users of videotron.ca e-mail account(s) that the site <Groupname>@ groups.io is a SPAM one ! The e-mail server automated SPAM list triggers on, past a certain level (I guess that is 50 rports or more) and a new ¡°filter¡± is applied on the 1st day of the next month.
The automated action of the Videotron delivery system is then to simply DISCARD all the e-mails coming from the site, whoever the e-mail recipient !!! INCREDIBLE¡ but that explains why I stopped to receive messages from the site at noon, local time, on Jan 1!
Our member added The videotron engineer who talked to me is sure that the automated reaction was triggered by one or many users trying to unsubscribe by just using the SPAM button on their Videotron web-based e-mail interface!
A test email from the web UI cartainly worked when the system was tested again, but I am not entirely convinced by the explanation. We have a grand total of four members with videotron.ca email addresses, and two of them are set to Special Notices only, so if the reported explanation is correct it would suggest that this blockage was caused by a single member persistently reporting Groups.io messages from our group as spam.
What is a bit worrying is that an ISP would accept these "reports" as correct and simply stop passing the traffic to recipients while at the same time accepting them from their originator without comment, as evidenced by the 2.0.0. delivery reports.
We will have to keep an eye on this to see if it happens again. I might email the other "individual email" recipient to see if he noticed (or did!) anything untoward.
Chris
?
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During the last month (December 2018) there have been 57 reports from one or several users of e-mail account(s) that the site <Groupname>@ is a SPAM one ! The e-mail server automated SPAM list triggers on, past a certain level (I guess that is 50 rports or more) and a new ¡°filter¡± is applied on the 1st day of the next month.
The automated action of the Videotron delivery system is then to simply DISCARD all the e-mails coming from the site, whoever the e-mail recipient !!! INCREDIBLE¡ but that explains why I stopped to receive messages from the site at noon, local time, on Jan 1!
Please
send a copy of your member's report to [email protected] - clearly Mark
should be subscribed to Videotron's FBL list, if they operate one. But
in either case I'm sure he would appreciate knowing about this behavior.
Our member added The videotron engineer who talked to me is sure that the automated reaction was triggered by one or many users trying to unsubscribe by just using the SPAM button on their Videotron web-based e-mail interface!
Unfortunately, some users have been "trained" to handle unsubscription that way, confusing their legit email list subscriptions with unsolicited emails ("spam").
... if the reported explanation is correct it would suggest that this blockage was caused by a single member persistently reporting Groups.io messages from our group as spam.
A behavior that has been reported with some email services is that messages automatically diverted to the Spam folder, and then allowed to remain there until some auto-delete interval, will also trigger this behavior - without any explicit action by the user. That could artificially produce a large number of "reports".
What is a bit worrying is that an ISP would accept these "reports" as correct and simply stop passing the traffic to recipients while at the same time accepting them from their originator without comment, as evidenced by the 2.0.0. delivery reports.
Discarding an accepted message is very bad practice, unless the source of the message is solidly known to be invalid. Reports from a user would not qualify as such.
Shal
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We have a 20+ year old yahoo group mailing list with 7k+ members that we just switched over. We switched everyone on the list that had Selected "No Emails" to "Special Notices Only", then sent out an email outlining why we were switching and where to. And then let everyone know if they didn't want to follow us over to unsubscribe and that we were going initiate the transfer in a week from that email.
Still got lots of confused people. :)
Paul A. Grosse
On Thursday, January 3, 2019, 5:14:44 PM EST, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:
During the last month (December 2018) there have been 57 reports from one or several users of e-mail account(s) that the site <Groupname>@ is a SPAM one ! The e-mail server automated SPAM list triggers on, past a certain level (I guess that is 50 rports or more) and a new ¡°filter¡± is applied on the 1st day of the next month.
The automated action of the Videotron delivery system is then to simply DISCARD all the e-mails coming from the site, whoever the e-mail recipient !!! INCREDIBLE¡ but that explains why I stopped to receive messages from the site at noon, local time, on Jan 1!
Please
send a copy of your member's report to [email protected] - clearly Mark
should be subscribed to Videotron's FBL list, if they operate one. But
in either case I'm sure he would appreciate knowing about this behavior.
Our member added The videotron engineer who talked to me is sure that the automated reaction was triggered by one or many users trying to unsubscribe by just using the SPAM button on their Videotron web-based e-mail interface!
Unfortunately, some users have been "trained" to handle unsubscription that way, confusing their legit email list subscriptions with unsolicited emails ("spam").
... if the reported explanation is correct it would suggest that this blockage was caused by a single member persistently reporting Groups.io messages from our group as spam.
A behavior that has been reported with some email services is that messages automatically diverted to the Spam folder, and then allowed to remain there until some auto-delete interval, will also trigger this behavior - without any explicit action by the user. That could artificially produce a large number of "reports".
What is a bit worrying is that an ISP would accept these "reports" as correct and simply stop passing the traffic to recipients while at the same time accepting them from their originator without comment, as evidenced by the 2.0.0. delivery reports.
Discarding an accepted message is very bad practice, unless the source of the message is solidly known to be invalid. Reports from a user would not qualify as such.
Shal
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On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:14 PM, Shal Farley wrote:
Please send a copy of your member's report to [email protected] - clearly Mark should be subscribed to Videotron's FBL list, if they operate one. But in either case I'm sure he would appreciateknowing about this behavior.
That sounds like a good idea, but it won't be tonight as it is creeping towards bedtime in the UK!
?
Unfortunately, some users have been "trained" to handle unsubscription that way, confusing their legit email list subscriptions with unsolicited emails ("spam").
Perfectly true, but it shouldn't be the cause this time. There is only one other "individual email" member with a videotron address, and he has been a member since 2012 and thus a Groups.io subscriber since December 2017. The implication is that these supposed spam reports are a recent phenomenon, but to be fair it is only an implication. It is also worth noting that this other member appears to be wholly inactive having never posted anything in the 6+ years of membership. You mentioned videotron's FBL list; that assumes that there is one; on the face of it they simply stop forwarding the traffic to the recipient(s) without feeding anything back to the originator. I will send a suitable report to support, and will report back here if anything worth reporting back emerges. But not tonight, as explained above. I have already had to correct too many smelling errors in this post! Chris
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On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 05:22 PM, Chris Jones wrote:
There is only one other "individual email" member with a videotron address
It wouldn't necessarily just be members of your group that caused this.? Anyone with a videotron address could have marked a message on any group resulting in the 'blocking' of groups.io. Duane -- Help: /static/helpGMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiSearch button at the top of Messages list A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions
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On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:25 PM, Duane wrote:
It wouldn't necessarily just be members of your group that caused this.? Anyone with a videotron address could have marked a message on any group resulting in the 'blocking' of groups.io.
I don't think that is true. Videotron did not stop forwarding "Groups.io", just one particular group. The member's other groups (also hosted by Groups.io) continued to function normally. And it would seem that videotron have a trigger point at "50" spam reports. Chris.
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On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 02:31 AM, Chris Jones wrote:
just one particular group
Apologies, that was mentioned in passing.? Based on the information so far, I'd suspect the member that isn't very active.? One more session with videotron may totally solve this, if they're willing to help.? It seems like they would have a record of the address that marked the spam.? I doubt they would give that out, but maybe they could verify that it WASN'T the member with a problem (reverse confirmation.)? This is assuming that you haven't sent 50 special notices in a month. ;>) Unfortunately, as Shal mentioned, some services tell folks to mark messages as spam to unsubscribe instead of doing it properly. Duane -- Help: /static/helpGMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiSearch button at the top of Messages list A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions
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Shal Farley
Paul Grosse
Duane