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aliceposta accounts in hard bounce


 

Checking the Bouncing members list in my group, I have noticed that several members with accounts on aliceposta.it are in hard bounce status with the same error message:
"smtp.aliceposta.it: 550 mail not accepted from blacklisted IP address [66.175.222.12]"
The IP number is always the same.

I am not sure about the cause and no member has complained about this problem so far.
Is there anything that I can do?

Thank you for your help.
Marina


 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 03:47 AM, Marina wrote:
Is there anything that I can do?
No.? That is the IP address of the email server at GIO.? For some reason, aliceposta has decided that no email should be allowed from GIO, so they've put it on a blacklist.? If members do complain, it's up to them to contact the service to explain that they do want to receive email from the lists.

Duane
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The problem with that logic is that the intended receiver does not even know about the bounce.? Bounce messages are returned to the SENDER, so the sender would have to notify the receiver or the ISP.
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K4HM
HANK? MONTGOMERY
Hank@...


 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 02:58 PM, Hank Montgomery wrote:
The problem with that logic is that the intended receiver does not even know about the bounce.
Unless you have an account on the service in question, they'll ignore you.? That's why the people using it are the ones that need to complain.? They'll eventually realize they're bounced when they don't get any messages from any group.

Duane
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Hank,

Bounce messages are returned to the SENDER, so the sender would have
to notify the receiver or the ISP.
Groups.io (the sender in this case) does notify the intended recipient by the only means available: a notice when that member visits the Groups.io web site.

Other than that it is incumbent on the member to notice that they're not receiving group messages and check in to see what's up. Or up to a generous group moderator to attempt to contact the member via the mods' own email address (which hopefully isn't also blocked).

It is possible, especially if aliceposta is bouncing *all* messages from Groups.io
that Groups.io's deliverability tracking will raise the alert. If Aliceposta has any means for a postmaster to contact them then it is possible that Groups.io can
try to work out the issue with them, as recently happened with comcast.

But if aliceposta is rejecting occasional messages based on an RBL (real-time
blacklist) then this situation might go unnoticed until the member raises a ruckus with aliceposta's tech support.

Shal


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On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 08:01 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

It is possible, especially if aliceposta is bouncing *all* messages from
Groups.io
I have checked more in detail and all group members with aliceposta.it and alice.it accounts with mail delivery enabled are in hard bounce status.
The only members with alice.it/aliceposta.it accounts who are not bouncing are those in Nomail or Special options.
The same applies to members with tin.it and tim.it accounts, which is not surprising as alice.it, aliceposta.it, tim.it, tin.it all belong to Telecom Italia, the largest Italian telecommunications services provider.

So, apparently, Telecom is blocking all mails from GIO.
:-(

Thank you for your help.
Marina


 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 08:00 AM, Marina wrote:
as alice.it, aliceposta.it, tim.it, tin.it all belong to Telecom Italia
If you can find a user of one of those services that has some extra time (and it seems many of us do right now ;>), you could work with them to try to get this changed.? Maybe the service doesn't realize that GIO is a legitimate group site.? Or they're using a blacklisting service that is way behind.

Duane
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Unless you have an account on the service in question, they'll ignore you.? That's why the people using it are the ones that need to complain.? They'll eventually realize they're bounced when they don't get any messages from any group.

That's where I find my (paid for) email hosting company to be helpful.? If I get a bounce when SENDING an email, I just notify them that THEIR IP address is being blocked and they can usually take care of the problem.? I think a reputable internet service gets more cooperation from the recipient's email service provider than an individual user can expect to get.? I realize that this puts a burden on the sending email service, but in my case that's part of the service I pay for, and is the best way to handle it.? If enough pressure is put on by respectable email services then maybe the flaws in the spam protection methods like using blacklists (they typically don't just blacklist a single IP address, they blacklist a whole block of addresses at a time) and restricting list services would get corrected.?

But GIO is not an email service provider, it is more like an email list, and many email lists track bounces and stop sending to addresses that exceed a reasonable bounce rate.? But if I understand the GIO process, they are the only service I have ever heard of that shuts off a recipient on a single bounce.? To me this is just adding a bad response on top of a bad situation!? It seems like 2 services fighting each other and the users who were intended recipients, and who did nothing wrong, are the victims. There has to be a better way!

IMHO - we need to move toward secure email account registration and tracking as a much better method.? By ONLY accepting email from a registered secure account you could virtually eliminate SPAM.? Yes a burden at first, and inconvenient when you change services, but if the spam problem is averted then there is less reason to be changing accounts as often as your socks!? I would be willing to pay for such service, but it would only be effective when the majority if email users buy-into it, and that isn't likely to happen.? As long as free email is available people will just put up with SPAM - and complain about it.

--
K4HM
HANK? MONTGOMERY
Hank@...


 

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 12:01 PM, Hank Montgomery wrote:
they are the only service I have ever heard of that shuts off a recipient on a single bounce
On the first bounce, GIO will still try to send bounce probes every 3 days unless it's one of the specifc hard bounces looked for.? That allows for minor disruptions to be corrected and things go back to normal.? (No sense trying to send xx emails to someone until there's an indication that they're not bouncing any more.)? It's only after repeated failures over the course of many days that the person is placed in Bounced status and has to do something to continue receiving messages.? There's a good explanation of the process at /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/9674

Duane
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