|
Within seconds of getting the rush that your group has finally, successfully transferred, you start getting messages from members of the old YG list who have immediately quit the new list (unsubscribed)
This is disappointing, after the frustration of waiting for the transfer to complete, to have old list members quit without even investigating the new list.? At this point I will change the YG list to not allow new members or new posts.? But there is this impulse to remove these instant unsubscribers from the old YG list as well.? Make it a complete sweep on both lists...
ken
"It has always seemed strange to me," said Doc. "The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success."? Steinbeck - Cannery Row
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
|
I experienced many people leaving our group too, but I knew that was going to happen. About ever four years I would purge the group to get the true number of members in the group, as I’ve found out our membership numbers get falsely inflated over time. People come and go all the time, and a lot leave without unsubscribing. The last time I purged the group I started with about 280 members, and by the time the purge was done we had about 85 real members. By the end of February I’ll know the true number of members we have, and I’m guessing we’ll end up with around 85 again. In another 3 to 4 years I’ll do it all over again. ? Don
|
These are probably people who didn't even remember they were in the group and, when given an explicit opportunity, were reminded of it and made a clean break. It's very unlikely that they quit because of the move. I wouldn't go to the trouble and work of deleting them in the old group. Who cares? I would, however, close the old group to posting as soon as possible to avoid having to move posts around.
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:43 PM, SP4149 <ken@...> wrote:
Within seconds of getting the rush that your group has finally, successfully transferred, you start getting messages from members of the old YG list who have immediately quit the new list (unsubscribed)
This is disappointing, after the frustration of waiting for the transfer to complete, to have old list members quit without even investigating the new list.? At this point I will change the YG list to not allow new members or new posts.? But there is this impulse to remove these instant unsubscribers from the old YG list as well.? Make it a complete sweep on both lists...
ken
"It has always seemed strange to me," said Doc. "The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success."? Steinbeck - Cannery Row
Groups.io Links:
You receive all messages sent to this group.
View/Reply Online (#4809) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute This Topic | New Topic
Change Your Subscription
Group Home
Contact Group Owner
Terms Of Service
Unsubscribe From This Group
|
Don,
? The first time it happened, I took it personally, as some didn't want to move and stayed on the YG list.? But a couple of weeks I didn't want to moderate the old YG list anymore and closed it down to activity and deleted YG members who refused to move to groups.io but still wanted the YG list to remain active.
ken
"It has always seemed strange to me," said Doc. "The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success."? Steinbeck - Cannery Row
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2018-02-19 23:07, Don wrote:
I experienced many people leaving our group too, but I knew that was going to happen. About ever four years I would purge the group to get the true number of members in the group, as I've found out our membership numbers get falsely inflated over time. People come and go all the time, and a lot leave without unsubscribing. The last time I purged the group I started with about 280 members, and by the time the purge was done we had about 85 real members. By the end of February I'll know the true number of members we have, and I'm guessing we'll end up with around 85 again. In another 3 to 4 years I'll do it all over again.
?
Don
|
I haven’t closed our Y group yet, but I will soon. I was concerned new people were not going to find our new group by searching for us, so I edited our YG home page to tell them we moved, and where we moved too. Do date since our transfer I haven’t had one request to join the Y group, but I’ve had many requests to join us at the new Group.io group…They must have read the note I left on the YG home page. Once I put the old Y group out of its misery, people will then find us much easier during a search. ? Don
|
Ken -
This is a phenomenon that has been noted for quite some time. There are a lot of theories, but no real clear answer. After I moved my groups almost a year ago, I started saving the notices for those who left after transfer and I think maybe half later came back. More frustrating are those who have transferred but can't quite sort out the subscribe process to access the new group web page. (I think recent changes may help that.) I lost a few that way. You'll also lose a few to the "marked a message as spam" situation with DMARC, who just don't find the resubscribe message groups.io also sends out.
But you'll also find people who had problems under Y! and then find the new group on groups.io and excitedly join without problems. And as things progress, you'll find a number of people who unsubscribed from the old Y! group because of frustrations as well. There's nothing much you can do but watch and remember that your focus is on the ones that remain.
As for the old list, don't delete members. Just set it to moderate all posts and other activity and tell members who post that they're responding to the old group location. Most of the posts I saw were people that had simply not changed the email address in their Address Books/Contacts. You may also see people request to join who have just found the old group. They can be directed to the new group, and they are generally grateful for that. And change your old group description to note the new group location.
Dano - [MILW] and [MILWmodelers] head janitor
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
----- Original Message -----
Within seconds of getting the rush that your group has finally, successfully transferred, you start getting messages from members of the old YG list who have immediately quit the new list (unsubscribed)
This is disappointing, after the frustration of waiting for the transfer to complete, to have old list members quit without even investigating the new list. At this point I will change the YG list to not allow new members or new posts. But there is this impulse to remove these instant unsubscribers from the old YG list as well. Make it a complete sweep on both lists...
ken
|
On Tuesday, February 20, 2018, 3:53:44 AM EST, Don <dgrass1@...> wrote:
>I haven’t closed our Y group yet, but I will soon. I was concerned new people were not going to find our new group by searching for us, so I edited our YG home page to tell them we moved, and where we moved too. Do date since our transfer I haven’t had one request to join the Y group, but I’ve had many requests to join us at the new Group.io group…They must have read the note I left on the YG home page. Once I put the old Y group out of its misery, people will then find us much easier during a search. Don =========================== Hi Don,
I would not be hasty to Delete the Verizon/Yahoo group. With your edited homepage you have another source of members that appears to be working well & Groups.io is not, as of yet, well known. I intend to do the same when my main group is transferred.?
Paul, Ohio, USA Gedmatch A228451, Cousin CGW A428058 & Cousin CSWC A866649
|
Maybe this is related to the confusion, that I mentioned in a previous post, of members mistakenly thinking they had been added to a new group they did not request a subscription to. As I also mentioned, it is too easy in the welcome message to unsubscribe (just click on the highlighted word or words). I had earlier suggested removing this ability, but apparently this suggestion has been rejected. On thinking about this some more, I remember that some people might be reluctant to be part of a group they know nothing about - their email address might be used for commercial purposes, for example. However, at this point they are already part of the group. So, instead of making it so easy to unsubscribe at lightening speed, why not
a) make it clearer that they are being transferred from the yahoo group (maybe even name it) and to either contact the owner of the IO group to be removed (and the welcoming message could contain the email address of the owner), or
b) instead of this link in the welcoming message to instantaneously unsubscribe, just provide a link to the new group web site. They can then scroll down the the page and find the email address to unsubscribe.
Again, they are already in the group when they get the welcome message. So what would be the problem of them taking a little more time to unsubscribe? By having to take a little more extra time to unsubscribe, they might finally understand the situation, or if the welcoming message is modified according to option 'a', then the owner could more better explain what happened. The suggestion has been made that an email message could be sent out informing the members of the yahoo group about the transfer and to not unsubscribe (unless they really want to). I had already done this for the small group I am waiting to be transferred. However, first, remember that since this is yahoo and we know about all the problems yahoo is experiencing, maybe not all members will get the message. Second, since the transfer is taking a week, two weeks, maybe even a month or months, I'd bet that some of the members in my larger group I want to transfer to IO will have forgotten the message informing them of the transfer and informing them not to unsubscribe.
Stan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/19/2018 11:43 PM, SP4149 wrote:
Within seconds of getting the rush that your group has finally, successfully transferred, you start getting messages from members of the old YG list who have immediately quit the new list (unsubscribed)
This is disappointing, after the frustration of waiting for the transfer to complete, to have old list members quit without even investigating the new list. At this point I will change the YG list to not allow new members or new posts. But there is this impulse to remove these instant unsubscribers from the old YG list as well. Make it a complete sweep on both lists...
*ken*
"It has always seemed strange to me," said Doc. "The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success." *Steinbeck - Cannery Row*
[footers trimmed by moderator]
|
Don,
This is something I have also thought about. I wonder how many actual members I have due to members that are already gone (new email address) and not taking the time to unsubscribe, or dying (this happened in my group to an individual I personally knew). I sort of cringe at what my actual membership may be. I might actually be 30%, like yours, of the membership stated in YG's.
Stan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/20/2018 12:07 AM, Don wrote:
I experienced many people leaving our group too, but I knew that was going to happen. About ever four years I would purge the group to get the true number of members in the group, as I’ve found out our membership numbers get falsely inflated over time. People come and go all the time, and a lot leave without unsubscribing. The last time I purged the group I started with about 280 members, and by the time the purge was done we had about 85 real members. By the end of February I’ll know the true number of members we have, and I’m guessing we’ll end up with around 85 again. In another 3 to 4 years I’ll do it all over again.
Don
|
Ken/all,
? Another possible explanation is that they see the invite from groups.io
? ? ? ? ?===> and treat it as spam.
If you don't read the invite it's easy to reach the "what's this?" state
and follow it with a conditioned response to "just delete" (opt out).??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Jim B.
|
On 2/20/2018 12:20 AM, J_Catlady wrote: These are probably people who didn't even remember they were in the group and, when given an explicit opportunity, were reminded of it and made a clean break. It's very unlikely that they quit because of the move. I know first hand that members in one group I belong to quit because of the move. They thought they had been added to a new group, that they did not request be added to, not related to the yahoo group they belong to. They said this in email messages in the yahoo group (before it was shut down). Again, this gets to the ability to unsubscribe to the IO group with lightening speed in the welcoming message that I mentioned in a message days ago and just now again in a response within the past half hour. Stan [excess quote trimmed by moderator]
|
Jim,
? I've been saving the unsubscribe notices/e-mails and after a month may just send a follow-up notice in case they did exactly what you said.
ken
"It has always seemed strange to me," said Doc. "The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success."? Steinbeck - Cannery Row
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2018-02-20 07:35, Jim Betz wrote:
Ken/all,
? Another possible explanation is that they see the invite from groups.io
? ? ? ? ?===> and treat it as spam.
If you don't read the invite it's easy to reach the "what's this?" state
and follow it with a conditioned response to "just delete" (opt out).??
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?- Jim B.
|
You don’t think Groups.io is working well? I do! We did our transfer maybe five weeks ago, after testing our new group out for about ten days before that. I turned everything off at the old group (No new members have been accepted there), and the only thing I use it for now is a sign post to redirect potential new members. I did a Google search for our group about three weeks ago, and our old Y group would come up on the first search results page, and the Groups.io group would be 3-4 pages back. The other day I did another search, and our Groups.io site came up on the first page. I could be wrong, but I’m thinking maybe the activity at the Groups.io group, is causing it to come up first over the Y group. Once a week I send out a post from both groups reminding the members that the old site is shutting, and if they are staying with the new group to do the poll or email me personally. With those names I keep a list of members staying, and at the end of the month I’ll be doing some house cleaning of the membership, then shut down the old site for good. If things get intolerable at Groups.io, I can always go back to Y and make a new group if I wanted too…If that will be possible. ? Don ? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul, Ohio, USA via Groups.Io Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 5:08 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [GMF] After the transfer, some YG subscribers immediately opt out of new list on groups.io ? I would not be hasty to Delete the Verizon/Yahoo group. With your edited homepage you have another source of members that appears to be working well & Groups.io is not, as of yet, well known. I intend to do the same when my main group is transferred.?
|
Stan,
Would you be doing something different if your membership was?actually be 30% smaller?
Bob
|
Any time you move, a household or an office or an informal group, things get broken and lost. If you move the entire membership list that includes all of the lurkers – percentages vary but say it is 50%. Many of them are dead or gone and never know about the move. Others suddenly wake up and decide they lost interest long ago anyway.
?
What matters is the number of active, current participants. That is the core.
?
If you have PG Offline database you can tell exactly who they are with a statistics builder report, and target the ones that matter.
?
Don’t waste time or emotional stress over the rest.
?
Cheers, Life is Good
Scott Bonacker CPA – McCullough and Associates LLC – Springfield, MO
?
?
?
From: [email protected] [mailto: [email protected]] On Behalf Of SP4149 Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 12:43 AM To: [email protected]Subject: [GMF] After the transfer, some YG subscribers immediately opt out of new list on groups.io
?
Within seconds of getting the rush that your group has finally, successfully transferred, you start getting messages from members of the old YG list who have immediately quit the new list (unsubscribed)
This is disappointing, after the frustration of waiting for the transfer to complete, to have old list members quit without even investigating the new list.? At this point I will change the YG list to not allow new members or new posts.? But there is this impulse to remove these instant unsubscribers from the old YG list as well.? Make it a complete sweep on both lists...
ken
[group footer trimmed by moderator]
|
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 07:26 am, Stan Gorodenski wrote:
Maybe this is related to the confusion, that I mentioned in a previous
post, of members mistakenly thinking they had been added to a new group
they did not request a subscription to.
I agree with Stan. In spite of all the transfer special notices I have sent in the list (I had put a notice on the YG group homepage, too), just after the transfer was successfully completed, one of the first mails I received was a rude message from a subscriber (totally unknown to me) stating that she never asked to be subscribed to any list and ordering me to delete her account from ALL lists. It turned out that she'd been a member (obviously of her own choice) of my YG group since 2013 and was in nomail. She clearly hadn't a clue about the transfer. I was so annoyed by her unnecessarily harsh tone that I happily deleted her from Yahoo and Groups.io. This morning, however, I received this notice: "This is to notify you that [YG member's address] has been unsubscribed from your group [email protected] because they marked a message as spam." It's the second time that I get an unsubscribe notice mentioning spam. Marina
|
>
About ever four years I would purge the group...
Running into something?similar myself.? ?I've moved groups I own over to .? ?But took that time to look at all my own personal Y! subscriptions.? ?I'd say 80% of the lists I was a member of hadn't posted in years, or only had 1-2 messages/year.? ?Between missing owners, and people discussing things on FB or forums, I was surprised how many once-active emails lists had just faded away.
|
Thanks, Marina. Your situation, of the person having had her profile set to nomail, made me think that maybe what I need to do is download a member list (which I have done other times in the past) and laboriously send each one a message from me, not through the discussion group, telling them about what is to happen. I will also discover how many members no longer exist because of non-delivery messages.
I don't understand the groups.io message you got about spam. Are you saying that if a member accidentally, or the internet provider purposely, codes a message as spam that this action gets sent back to IO and then the person is unsubscribed, without the group owner's approval, because of it?
Stan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2/21/2018 4:06 AM, Marina wrote: On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 07:26 am, Stan Gorodenski wrote:
Maybe this is related to the confusion, that I mentioned in a previous
post, of members mistakenly thinking they had been added to a new group
they did not request a subscription to.
I agree with Stan. In spite of all the transfer special notices I have sent in the list (I had put a notice on the YG group homepage, too), just after the transfer was successfully completed, one of the first mails I received was a rude message from a subscriber (totally unknown to me) stating that she never asked to be subscribed to any list and ordering me to delete her account from ALL lists.
It turned out that she'd been a member (obviously of her own choice) of my YG group since 2013 and was in nomail. She clearly hadn't a clue about the transfer.
I was so annoyed by her unnecessarily harsh tone that I happily deleted her from Yahoo and Groups.io.
This morning, however, I received this notice:
"This is to notify you that [YG member's address] has been unsubscribed from your group [email protected] because they marked a message as spam."
It's the second time that I get an unsubscribe notice mentioning spam.
Marina
|
On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 08:03 am, Stan Gorodenski wrote:
Are you saying that if a member accidentally, or the internet provider purposely, codes a message as spam that this action gets sent back to IO and then the person is unsubscribed, without the group owner's approval, because of it?
Yes, that's what happens.? There have been several discussions about it, here and on beta@, but the gist is that it's required by some ISPs so that Groups.io isn't black listed by them. Duane -- Help: /static/helpGMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wikiSearch button at the top of Messages list
|
>> It turned out that she'd been a member (obviously of her own
>> choice) of my YG group since 2013 and was in nomail.
If you send out your notification of the transfer as a Special Notice, it should go out to everyone regardless of their email preferences.
But in the case of this person it probably would only have given them an earlier opportunity to be rude.
Bruce
|
SP4149
Don Grass
D R Stinson
Jim Betz
Robert Schechter
John McLachlan
Duane
Bruce