Hello all,

Newbie here.? Just transferred my group from Yahoo.? Thanks Mark and everyone involved for all your hard work at this stressful time!? So, as Mark is swamped at the mo, he advised me to put my question/s to you kind folks.? I didn't find anything on help or wiki.??

Following the transfer, Mark advised that he had trouble migrating the links due to a yahoo glitch, and I'm having to do those manually.? I went to the group's new home here to see if the messages had all transferred (if the number of messages were about the same), and discovered that the number of my last (most recent) post/message in the new/io group is , whereas, in the old (yahoo) group it is labeled #8537. I might expect a small discrepancy, if I had to delete a message or two (in yahoo group) due to human error here and?
there, (spammers didn't really get in because it was a private group, mostly by invitation).? So, maybe a handful of times at most I remember deleting a message to replace or correct it. (Hated having to do that because it messed up the number continuity!|? But 766 messages is a notable discrepancy.? When I asked if this indicated that not all messages were successfully migrated Mark replied:
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"Due to the high volume of support requests right now (aka we're a bit overwhelmed!), we're unfortunately unable to provide a specific answer to your question.

That said, I will say that we see a lot of duplicate emails in the Yahoo Group archives, due to past bugs in their system (and not mistakes from users). We do not import duplicates, so often times the number of messages we import will be lower. That does not mean that we missed any messages."

_______

So, I guess I'm asking for thoughts and if anyone here can relate or confirm anything. It sounds like he's supplying a plausible explanation but that there is no way to definitively tell whether all msgs were copied. Is this "apparent volume loss" a normal percentage to expect when migrating from Yahoo?? I want to believe this explanation!? But the thing is, I pretty much lived on that group (it was like a full time job), and paid attention to everything, even the message numbers.? I think I would have noticed if that volume of messages (or message numbers) were being duplicated because of a glitch.? But maybe somehow I didn't notice(??) ?

It is important to me to have a complete, searchable database particularly of my contributions (which accounts for most of the material), so I can gather together material for a book. ?

Also, is there an easy way to establish whether all messages were transferred other than random checks or some kind of exhaustive side by side comparison (days are numbered, remember)?

Thanks in advance for any ideas,

Droxine

Droxine,

At the end of the Easy Group Transfer process, you should receive a summary email that includes a list of items that were not able to be transferred. Did it say anything about how many messages could not be transferred?

There was another report recently that had a substantial discrepancy between messages on the Yahoo group and messages that were seen on GIO. That turned out to be an error in reading the number of messages on GIO. The user was looking? at the number of Topics instead of the number of messages.

When I transferred a group a while back, I also noticed a discrepancy in the number of messages, but there was no indication of missing messages in the summary email. I went back and started comparing the Yahoo and GIO messages to see what had happened. It didn't take me long to realize that there were quite a few messages that had been deleted over time and that the highest message number on Yahoo was not a representative count of the actual total number of messages.

It may be worth your time to take a couple months and do an actual comparison to see if there really are missing messages, or if the "deleted" messages likely make up the discrepancy in numbering.

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Gerald

On 12/7/2019 4:45 AM, Derek Milliner wrote:

Y! themselves give you an option to download all if your group data, but from reports here it's a bit hit and miss, takes some time to be available and it's not clear if it'll still be possible after the 14th, but you could at least make the request.
Derek

Here's an extract from a Yahoo email I received this morning:

"If your download request is made by 11:59pm PST on Saturday, December 14, 2019, your content will not be deleted until your download is complete. We are unable to accommodate any download requests made after this deadline.

"This is the final reminder to download your content. You can find additional information about the upcoming changes at: ."

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Bill

I found a similar discrepancy: our Y! message count is 650 messages higher than the number of messages that transferred over to GIO (27,500+). Comparing the Y! and GIO message history tables, I saw discrepancies in the monthly message counts all across our group's 13-year history. I worried that hundreds of messages had simply not transferred.?

So I got a direct download from Y! (which I received a mere 24 hours after requesting it). Here's what I found: there are approximately 500 fewer messages in the Y! download than Yahoo's own online message count suggests should be there. Seeing this, I'm now more inclined to believe the discrepancies are due to errors and/or losses on Yahoo's end, rather than a GIO transfer failure.?

Incidentally, before requesting the download, I'd tried migrating the messages to PG Offline but was unable to because of repeated Y! login failures -- a problem that apparently many PGO users are experiencing now.

Emma

At the end of the Easy Group Transfer process, you should receive a summary email that includes a list of items that were not able to be transferred. Did it say anything about how many messages could not be transferred?

No mention of messages.? Only a note to go through links.? So I wondered if this indicates a complete transfer (everything now available on yahoo) or if it was just hard to know.? I think I asked if Mark had a way of knowing for sure on his end, and if messages were missing, if he could tell which ones.? But again, he (understandably) couldn't give me individualised attention.

The user was looking? at the number of Topics instead of the number of messages.

Yes, that almost tripped me up too at first, but no, I am just looking at the number of the last (most recent) posting.

It didn't take me long to realize that there were quite a few messages that had been deleted over time and that the highest message number on Yahoo was not a representative count of the actual total number of messages.

I hope this is my case as well.? It's just hard for me to believe that 10% of messages were deleted (purposefully, not by yahoo glitch or something).? I was sole owner and mod, and think I'd remember.

It may be worth your time to take a couple months and do an actual comparison to see if there really are missing messages,

Yeah, I guess human eyeballs will tell the final tale.? Frustrating.? But thanks so much for your input Gerald and nice meeting you!

Droxine

The message loss noticed after our forum transfer was not quite as substantial in volume as some others here are reporting they experienced, but we did indeed have messages missing, and we can testify it's all on Yahoo, not on GIO. The monthly activity grids at our old Yahoo forum and its new GIO venue showed several obvious discrepancies, and upon checking to see what GIO had skipped, we found they'd skipped nothing -- entire blocks of posts had been lost or deleted by Yahoo, so there was nothing for GIO to pick up and transfer.
Yahoo, good riddance.

You've probably seen many of the references to PG offline. From your comments I think you have a use case beyond just backing up the Y! group (search etc), but in any case; PGO (subject to Yahoo not melting) would give you a second copy of your group, and if both GIO and the PGO download report the same messages then you can be fairly certain you're getting everything Y! is prepared to let you have. Worth a $25?punt, to be honest.

Hi, Derek.? I actually had somehow managed to miss PG Offline in all my research!? Thanks so much for bringing it up!? I am planning to DL it right now and follow your suggestion.? I watched the vid on it and it looks exactly what I need with its sorting and organizational functionality!? It doesn't appear to be "functional" in group terms but more of an archival format, right?? But that's mainly what I'm looking for anyway.? I already have the group here, if that want's to get busy again. ?

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?

As mentioned, Y! have not had a stellar record over the years, it is quite possible they've lost records here and there. Mark & co. can only work with what they're given, after all, so if the transfer glitched or Y! have lost records, game over.

I guess it would be good in a way to know that whatever damage may have occurred was on yahoo's end. I may be in the minority, but while working on the yahoo group, I never noticed any such glitches, repeated/copied messages or deleted messages.? But maybe it is a loss that wouldn't have been noticed unless searching for a specific thing and it was no longer there, for ex.

I had questioned whether another run at the migration process here might yield a higher gain of messages (if any were in fact missed); I'm not technical so I don't know how these things work.? But, anyway, thanks to you, I'll have another go with Personal Groupware Offline, if I can work that one out, so we'll see.

?

?

Y! themselves give you an option to download all if your group data, but from reports here it's a bit hit and miss, takes some time to be available and it's not clear if it'll still be possible after the 14th, but you could at least make the request.

I already DLed the group on this basic computer that just fell into my hands and was a friend's.? I've been trying to get it up to speed.? It doesn't have office suite or anything to read the files (zipped) they gave me, and I'm not even sure how much memory this thing has, so I'm not sure what I downloaded yet!? After PG I'll look into free alternatives to Word. ? Not sure how I feel about using the online free version.? I really like to work offline when that's an option.? I'd like something with easily convertible file types for sharing and interfacing with MS products.? Open to any rec's. ?

Really excited about the promise of PGO, though.? Thanks again!!

Droxine

there are approximately 500 fewer messages in the Y! download than Yahoo's own online message count suggests should be there. Seeing this, I'm now more inclined to believe the discrepancies are due to errors and/or losses on Yahoo's end, rather than a GIO transfer failure.?

Thanks for the info, Emma.? Do you remember having to delete a ton of spam or mistakes or were you as surprised as I was?

I'd tried migrating the messages to PG Offline but was unable to because of repeated Y! login failures -- a problem that apparently many PGO users are experiencing now.

Oh dear goodness.? Well wish me luck.? I'm going in.? I'll let you know what happens.? Thanks for the heads up!

Droxine

?upon checking to see what GIO had skipped, we found they'd skipped nothing -- entire blocks of posts had been lost or deleted by Yahoo, so there was nothing for GIO to pick up and transfer.

Butch, thanks for this.? I'm getting the picture now.? So sorry to you and everyone who lost messages.? I guess one consolation for me is that I got an email digest of my group sent to my gmail account.? It was years ago, so I hope everything is still there, at least.? I didn't trust Yahoo even then, ha.? Trust no one!? Not sure how searchable or practical it would be to find missing messages, but at least probably more of it is there (I presume).? Did you subscribe to email messages?

Droxine

If your download request is made by 11:59pm PST on Saturday, December 14, 2019, your content will not be deleted until your download is complete. We are unable to accommodate any download requests made after this deadline.

Thank you, Bill,

If anyone wants another way to protect any valuable files, other than backing up to the cloud,? put a copy under a different user account on your pc.? Make sure the main account you use is not the admin acct.? This way, if malware infects, it likely will not be able to grant itself admin privileges and will be contained to the user account currently in use.? You can then sign in as admin and fix the problems.? This is a little tip I recently picked up researching security.?

I did this with the Yahoo DL files of my group.? Since this is a time sensitive issue, as you remind us, I thought others might want to take advantage of this while they still can.? The DL link works multiple times.? You don't need to send a new request for each DL.? Just open your email client in the other user account and follow the same link to the DL page.? Similarly, you could DL to multiple devices. ?

(I can't help wondering, though, if you send multiple requests, would the material in each DL differ at all?? If it's that wonky over there, who knows?)

Nice meeting you, Bill.

Droxine

It didn't take me long to realize that there were quite a
few messages that had been deleted over time and that
the highest message number on Yahoo was not a
representative count of the actual total number of
messages.

I hope this is my case as well. It's just hard for me to
believe that 10% of messages were deleted (purposefully,
not by yahoo glitch or something). I was sole owner and
mod, and think I'd remember.

I can only offer my own experiences as possible explanations.

I transferred a couple of groups over from Y! over three years ago. After the transfer I noticed a similar thing and went into the archives looking for the gaps. What I found was that we had some members who had left had taken down their posts when they did. Since posts are technically the property of the author, and the poster holds the original copyright, they had the right to pull down their own posts on Y! just as a poster has the right to remove their own posts on groups.io. I found examples where an original post might not exist but a response in a following reply might quote part of the original message.

In another case, it appeared Yahoo had suggested at one time they were going to limit storage for messages, and a previous owner had obviously deleted what he thought were insignificant posts.

Yahoo's previous actions were also the cause of some curious things such as photos in the Files area. Yahoo at one time limited the size of photos and resized them, so poster were forced to share larger detailed photos as files instead.

Dano

Hi Droxine -- moot point, but just to answer your question...
Yeah, I was (ha! Ironically) the "tech guy" for our Yahoo forum -- rarely participated in discussions, but tried to keep it running properly and keep the members (almost a thousand, but only a few dozen who contributed regularly/frequently) informed about each fresh Yahoo glitch (lost count of how many over the years). Most members participated exclusively through the e-list and rarely visited the actual forum, and therefore were often unaware of Yahoo incompetence. I received (most of the time) all the e-mails pending moderator approval, but deleted them from my inbox once I could see they were posted to both the forum and the e-list.

That would be the thing to do, though, if one had the time and energy (and had saved all the e-list messages) -- check e-list messages against forum posts. For an even moderately busy forum, that seems a daunting undertaking. And as far as we know (we asked GIO tech support about this almost a month ago and have yet to receive any acknowledgment), messages can't be inserted into a GIO forum in the same order in which they first appeared in the Yahoo forum to which they were originally posted. They'd instead appear in the GIO forum as new posts. On top of which, one of Yahoo's recurring problems (especially once the godawful Neo platform was foisted upon users) was that sometimes messages would go through on the e-list but not appear on the forum, sometimes messages would post to the forum but not show up on the e-list, or, more commonly, messages sent (either via e-mail or submitted directly at the forum) would never show up on either the e-list or the forum.

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 04:45 PM, droxine5 wrote:

Do you remember having to delete a ton of spam or mistakes or were you as surprised as I was?

No, I don't recall anything of the kind. Although I was not always a moderator for our forum, the person who was would surely have reported such issues. Of course, there were some deliberate deletions over the years, but those couldn't have added up to more than a couple of dozen messages at most -- definitely not several hundred. So yes: the discrepancy was a big surprise.

Droxine,

It's just hard for me to believe that 10% of messages were deleted
(purposefully, not by yahoo glitch or something). I was sole owner
and mod, and think I'd remember.

What Dano said: it is possible that some of the members deleted some or all of their own messages.

You might be able to see if this was the case by opening the Activity Log in your Yahoo Group, select the Web tab, and select Conversations in the Search drop box. Then click the Search button. This should produce a list of actions (including deletions) taken by members or mods.

Note that Y!Groups activity logs are not 100% reliable: in some of my groups some of the tabs stopped updating months or years ago, so you may not get a complete list of deleted messages, particularly if the deletion was recent.

What Dano said about an earlier owner deleting "unnecessary" messages may not apply in your case, but it is true that when I first started using Yahoo Groups (in 2003) that groups had limited storage for messages, so there was a motive for deleting older or less useful messages.

Shal


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On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 12:45 AM, droxine5 wrote:

After PG I'll look into free alternatives to Word. ? Not sure how I feel about using the online free version.? I really like to work offline when that's an option

Droxine, glad I was able to give you a useful steer. As an alternative to things like Google Docs, take a look at Libre Office (). Unless you're doing using highly MS specific features (rare) it'll do 100% what you need. And it's free - although of course I always make and recommend making a donation to open source projects when you find them genuinely useful.

Derek

On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 03:03 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

You might be able to see if this was the case by opening the Activity Log in your Yahoo Group, select the Web tab, and select Conversations in the Search drop box. Then click the Search button. This should produce a list of actions (including deletions) taken by members or mods.

"Should". Well, maybe, but I just did a check and Deletions are not a choice on the list of Activities to filter on.


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Gerald

开云体育

Gerald:

"Should". Well, maybe, but I just did a check and Deletions are not a choice on the list of Activities to filter on.

Search on "Conversations":

There may be a few other types of entries mixed in, but that's as narrow as I can get it since the Actions drop-list is inactive (gray) for this choice.

Shal


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On Sun, Dec 8, 2019 at 05:12 PM, Shal Farley wrote:

There may be a few other types of entries mixed in, but that's as narrow as I can get it since the Actions drop-list is inactive (gray) for this choice.

Shal

More checking here. As I stated earlier, I did not see a Deleted record in the Activity list when I deleted an email today in my Yahoo test group.

However, I subsequently went back and checked for deleted activities for a long established group and indeed these records do show up in the Activity list.

To summarize, it used to show deletions and probably still does for old emails. It did not for a message deleted today.
?
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Gerald

Gerald,

To summarize, it used to show deletions and probably still does for
old emails. It did not for a message deleted today.

It might, for some groups, I don't know.

As I said:

Note that Y!Groups activity logs are not 100% reliable: in some of my
groups some of the tabs stopped updating months or years ago, so you
may not get a complete list of deleted messages, particularly if the
deletion was recent.

Among my Y!Groups the "stopped updating" date appears to be different for different Activity tabs and also different for the same tab in different groups. Some Activity tabs in some groups are still updating. So the best I can say is "Your mileage may vary".

Shal


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