开云体育

Hi David,

* The recipients of the groups.io list receive a newly generated
message (with its own message-id).

That's optional.

In your Account preferences page there's a checkbox that is checked by default:
|_| I always want copies of my own messages

The effect of that checkbox is to cause the Message-Id to be replaced on messages you post. For some email services (Gmail notably among them) this allows you to see the message as returned from the group. Otherwise (if the Message-ID were left intact) Gmail would see a message with that same ID already in your account (the Sent folder) and would not display the "duplicate" message as received.

* Sometimes, the otherlist will be pruned from the headers, and
sometimes not (I haven't figured out the pattern here).

Possibly the distinction is whether the To or CC field was used? Also, there was a relevant change in late Jan or early Feb so that the CC field is no longer stripped. See the fifth item here:

* Replies on 'otherlist' tend to go to to the groups.io
list, which accepts it, at least if the group is
open to posting be non-members.

Accepted yes, but non-subscriber posts are always placed in moderation.

In addition, anyone on both lists/groups will get a separate copy of
each message, and it is unclear which one they should reply to.

Hmm...

Groups.io will insert a Reply-To field in the outbound header. The content of that header is set by one of your group's Settings. But none of the available choices will cause it to include the other group/list and if the member uses plain Reply that would likely exclude the other list, even if it were not removed from the To or CC. So I guess the member would need to use Reply-All to get the reply to go to both lists (and direct to the original poster).

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

There is an Email Integration designed to facilitate cross-posting INTO groups.io. If you can get the same thing set up in the other group (perhaps a dummy account with posting privileges but receiving "no email"), then your main problem will be getting people to STOP CC-ing both groups.

I admit I haven't thought this through carefully and the last thing you want to do is create a dupe loop. But I hope you get the idea. I know of no way to avoid creating a separate messageID, however. If that's the gist of your problem or there's other stuff in the message headers messing you up you're way beyond my ability to help.

Bruce

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:50:43PM -0700, Shal Farley wrote:

* The recipients of the groups.io list receive a newly generated
message (with its own message-id).

That's optional.

In your Account preferences page there's a checkbox that is checked by
default:
|_| I always want copies of my own messages

The effect of that checkbox is to cause the Message-Id to be replaced on
messages you post. For some email services (Gmail notably among them)
this allows you to see the message as returned from the group. Otherwise
(if the Message-ID were left intact) Gmail would see a message with that
same ID already in your account (the Sent folder) and would not display
the "duplicate" message as received.

This only affects messages that I send, right? Is there a way to set
this for everyone. I'll have to play with this a bit, though.

In addition, anyone on both lists/groups will get a separate copy of
each message, and it is unclear which one they should reply to.

Hmm...

Groups.io will insert a Reply-To field in the outbound header. The
content of that header is set by one of your group's Settings. But none
of the available choices will cause it to include the other group/list
and if the member uses plain Reply that would likely exclude the other
list, even if it were not removed from the To or CC. So I guess the
member would need to use Reply-All to get the reply to go to both lists
(and direct to the original poster).

It seems to just not insert a Reply-To for our list, which is pretty
important for cross posting to work (otherwise our group effectively
steals threads from every other list).

Thanks,
David

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 06:07:54PM -0700, Bruce Bowman wrote:

There is an Email Integration designed to facilitate cross-posting INTO
groups.io. If you can get the same thing set up in the other group (perhaps a
dummy account with posting privileges but receiving "no email"), then your main
problem will be getting people to STOP CC-ing both groups.

I do want them to be able to control when there is cross posting. It
certainly isn't the case that every message applies to both, in fact
most messages only apply to one or the other.

I admit I haven't thought this through carefully and the last thing you want to
do is create a dupe loop. But I hope you get the idea. I know of no way to
avoid creating a separate messageID, however. If that's the gist of your
problem or there's other stuff in the message headers messing you up you're way
beyond my ability to help.

It seems that if I uncheck "I always want copies of my own messages",
it doesn't generate new message IDs. At least I think that is what is
happening. I've asked someone to send me headers from one of my
messages on our list so that I can check if that is the case, or if
groups.io just avoided sending the message to me at all.

David

David,

|_| I always want copies of my own messages

This only affects messages that I send, right?

Correct.

Is there a way to set this for everyone.

No.

In particular note that it is an Account setting, not a Subscription setting. This means it affects all groups to which you have a subscription (under this address).

It seems to just not insert a Reply-To for our list, which is pretty
important for cross posting to work (otherwise our group effectively
steals threads from every other list).

I'm not certain what you mean here. As far as I know there's no way to prevent Groups.io from putting a Reply-To field in the header of outbound messages.

In any case, if you can resolve those cases where it appears that Groups.io removed the other list from the To or CC field then it seems like the right thing will happen if you set your Groups.io group to have Reply To the group, and for members to habitually use the Reply All feature of their email service. But...

1) The Reply All will most likely include a direct message to the sender, as well as both groups.

2) One possible reason for Groups.io not to pass the address of the other list would be if it was named in a BCC. In that case that address was never delivered to Groups.io from the sender's email service.

3) Reply All doesn't seem to be implemented uniformly among all email services. That is, I've read of odd cases where Groups.io messages are concerned (or any message with a Reply-To field).

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Thanks Shal!

I checked the settings of the list in question and it is currently set to "Reply to Sender"

Other options include: Group, Moderators, & Group and Sender.

If I'm reading the thread correctly, should our setting be updated to "Reply to Group"?

Brett,

If I'm reading the thread correctly, should our setting be updated to
"Reply to Group"?

If you're talking about David's group, yes. That would best enable what he wants (replies to his Groups.io and also another list).

To make it even better a suggestion could be posted on beta to add an "All Recipients" setting to the Reply-To option. Then when a member happens to cross-post to another list, that other list would be included in the Reply-To field generated by Groups.io.

If you're talking about some other group, then it would depend on the needs of the group. Some groups aren't really for conversations but more of a bulletin-board. Examples include Freecycle, Freegle, and other sharing-oriented groups; in this type of group it is more appropriate that replies to offers be sent only to the original poster.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Having played around a bit, this is my take on things.
The perception that groups.io is 'passing through' e-mails sent to a group via it is I think something of an over simplification. It seems to me that when groups.io receives such an e-mail, or has 'message to group' posted through the web interface, after moderation, etc., it adds it the group message archive and, for each member, depending on their settings (including whether they want their own messages) either sends them a 'new' (from groups.io) e-mail (with a new msg id, what was in the original e-mail, with extra/changed footer); adds the message to their digest or summary; or just lets them read it in the archive.
If an e-mail has multiple addressees, then a recipient of the groups.io-sent e-mail version will see the group (only) in the 'To:' field, and any CCs as such: if the Group was itself a cc, then it will appear in both the To (without any of the addresses in the original To: list) and CC fields. In other words an e-mail sent To: Group1 and A, CC: Group2 and B will arrive from Group2 as To: Group2, CC Group2 and B. That from Group1 will not mention A; only A and B will see all four addressees.?
A 'reply' in e-mail will default to whatever the group 'reply-to' (I think there may be some logic to remove specific 'sender' if they will get it as part of group) setting is (this can be changed), and 'reply-all' will also include the CC list. When using groups.io reply facility the only options are (I think) 'group' and 'sender'.?

I would agree there is a case for adding Show and Reply To 'All Recipients' options.

HTH,

Jeremy?

On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 08:17:07PM -0700, Shal Farley wrote:

If I'm reading the thread correctly, should our setting be updated to
"Reply to Group"?

If you're talking about David's group, yes. That would best enable what
he wants (replies to his Groups.io and also another list).

To make it even better a suggestion could be posted on beta to add an
"All Recipients" setting to the Reply-To option. Then when a member
happens to cross-post to another list, that other list would be included
in the Reply-To field generated by Groups.io.

I previously checked the headers, and the group was not getting a
Reply-To header. I think this is the best solution, since it just
leaves things for the email client to use (it allows people to reply
to just the author, or to everyone, etc). Trying to keep the "CC"
people as CC etc is not going to work if the reply-to header is set.

If you're talking about some other group, then it would depend on the
needs of the group. Some groups aren't really for conversations but more
of a bulletin-board. Examples include Freecycle, Freegle, and other
sharing-oriented groups; in this type of group it is more appropriate
that replies to offers be sent only to the original poster.

This is definitely conversation-based. Many people on the group will
be used to threaded reply views, and that kind of thing.

Thanks,
David

On Mon, Apr 09, 2018 at 05:22:03PM -0700, Jeremy Harrison via Groups.Io wrote:

A 'reply' in e-mail will default to whatever the group 'reply-to' (I think
there may be some logic to remove specific 'sender' if they will get it as part
of group) setting is (this can be changed), and 'reply-all' will also include
the CC list. When using groups.io reply facility the only options are (I think)
'group' and 'sender'.

Ideal would be to not insert a reply-to header in the message at all.
It isn't even something a mailing list should be setting, it should be
passed through so that the user can decide where they want replies to
go. At least for our list.

David

David,

Ideal would be to not insert a reply-to header in the message at all.
It isn't even something a mailing list should be setting, ...

You can argue with Mark on that point. There's a huge inertia in the groups that have come over from Y!Groups - which has done Reply-To this way for nearly two decades.

... it should be passed through so that the user can decide where they
want replies to go. At least for our list.

Mark got a lot of push-back recently when he added the List-Post header. You might search out those Topics on beta. Ultimately he made a change so that List-Post is added when the group is set to Reply to Sender.

So that might be the approach for your groups. It would mean that the normal Reply behavior would be reply to sender, but that the email interface might also offer a Reply List button to reply to the list.

That would still leave the question of whether Groups.io strips other recipients from the To field, and whether it strips the CC field, neither of which I've tested.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 11:26 am, Shal Farley wrote:

That would still leave the question of whether Groups.io strips other
recipients from the To field, and whether it strips the CC field,
neither of which I've tested.

See my post up topic for results of my testing

Jeremy

re: case for adding Show and Reply To 'All Recipients' options

Re-raising thread a year later to see if the above might be in the Groups.io near-term roadmap.

Our community has re-emphasized the need to not remove folks who are on Cc when Replying to message.

Our current list setting is "Reply to Sender"... although even if I updated to "Reply to Group" I don't believe this would solve the issue of not dropping folks added to Cc?