On Sun, Dec 6, 2015 Shal Farley wrote:

Quoting Olivia:>>It seems that "private archives" is not the same as "private group" in the yahoo sense. Here it just means that the old posts are not viewable by non-members. Is that correct?<<

Shal wrote:>>Correct.<<

Sorry to be replying to a December post, but don't you mean ALL posts are not viewable by non-members? Not just old ones?

Trying to sort this one out.

Brenda

Okay Shal,

I copied over parts of the post from Beta to here, so we can continue the discussion on Moderation and how it works both in Yahoo and in groups.io.

Owl wrote:>>Hmmm. Help me understand this? In MM, everyone who joined was allowed in without approval, but stayed on moderation until cleared to post. Default for the group, I thought, was moderated?<<

Shal wrote:>>The group control for message moderation in Yahoo Groups is slightly different from that in Groups.io, so bear with me.Your MM Yahoo Group is set to "Messages from new members require approval." In a Groups.io group this would be the equivalent of leaving the "Moderated" checkbox unchecked, and checking the "New Users Moderated" box.<<

Okay, John and I checked out MM's actual settings, and here is how it is set up.
It is set up as New Users are Moderated.

Problem is, there's nothing ever to indicate that they are ever UNMODERATED by the system. Therefore to me, that seems like New Users Are Moderated = Moderated group. Because that is the default, and the default doesn't decide to unmoderate anyone, only I do.

I found one entry that was put on default in the entire list, (might check again), and I'm pretty sure I didn't do that, because I always unmoderated the user once they posted a legit post...with the exceptions of those that I kept on permanent moderation.

So please help me understand how the default in there could still be unmoderated, when nothing unmoderated them but me???

Shal wrote:>>So no, the default in MM is that members' posts are generally not moderated. However, when a member joins their Posting Privilege is set to "Override - posts are moderated". Thus new members are moderated until you change that setting.<<

That's the other weird thing. Even when I changed the setting it was still override. It then said Override - Posts aren't moderated. Again though, default wouldn't have made them unmoderated, because default didn't know how to define a new user or not. Wouldn't default have to have been unmoderated to start with to do that? Owls are SO confused!

Shal wrote:>>You might have cleared them to post either be selecting "Default Group Policy" (which I recommend) or by selecting "Override - posts are not moderated" (which I generally recommend against).<<

But that was the only way I knew to do it, because default policy said new members are moderated, and didn't show me a way to make it aware when someone was no longer new. And no one ever told me differently, about how it worked.

Shal wrote:>>In your Yahoo Group, if you clear members to post by changing their Posting Privilege to "Default Group Policy" then they are unmoderated so long as the group's setting is either "Unmoderated" or "Moderated for new members" (which implicitly means unmoderated for "cleared" members).<<

Once again though, how would the group know they were no longer new, or cleared?

Shal wrote:>>This very confusion is one reason why I dislike Yahoo Groups' use of a single three-way radio button control for both the group's default policy and the initial setting of new members. In Groups.io those are separate checkboxes, which I feel is much clearer.<<

Owl wrote:>>Sorry, but that REALLY confused me...if you'd rather answer me in MMSanctuary, feel free...<<

Shal wrote:>>I thought about it, but confusion on this point is not uncommon among Yahoo Groups moderators (at least judging by the questions I've fielded in the moderator help groups). So I figured that since many of beta@'s members are migrating from Yahoo Groups, it might be worthwhile to highlight how Groups.io's controls are clearer for this purpose than Yahoo Groups'.<<

Okay, that makes sense.

Shal wrote:>>And also to highlight why one should always prefer "Default Group Policy" over the unmoderated override: it allows you to temporarily switch the group's policy to moderated to squelch a flame war. If some members are instead set to the unmoderated override then you have to squelch each of those members individually - a much more arduous task in a large active group.

If you want to discuss this further, perhaps we should take it over to the groups.io GMF.<<

Done. I'm here. Help me understand it, because I simply don't. Sorry. :(

Brenda

My transferred members in my test group had the same issue. They were only allowed to 'change' their password but not given an opportunity to create one. (They actually were creating one, but the UI was misleading and confused them.)

As Shal said, Mark has been working on the joining issues. I was planning on waiting for them to be resolved, but very recently Yahoo has been so flukey that I might just jump in before thst and transfer sooner rather than later. I figure I can explain away these issues to my members.
J

Sent from my iPhone

Xaun Loc wrote:

Yahoo routes everything inbound and outbound through a myriad of
task-specific servers. It is entirely possible for ONE server to do
something weird for a while.

Today's troubles seem to have affected a wide area, maybe all geographic areas to a varied degree.

No matter: the good news is that Y!G didn't "finally bite the dust". Yet.

I'm closing this thread because Yahoo problems are essentially off topic here in GMF@ of groups.io.

-- Shal
GMF owner

Hey everyone,

A member whom I transferred from a Yahoo Group to an io.group using Mark's transfer method, had this problem:
***
12/31/15

Hi Brenda,

Just to let you know that I struggled to join Groups.io at first.

Being Subscribed by you registered my email address with Groups.io, which locked me out of registering it myself. And I couldn’t Log In because I didn’t know my own password: remember Yahoo uses two-stage validation.

If anyone else asks, the trick is to try to Log In, then click the Lost Password button and ‘reset’ it from the resulting email.

David
***

Any suggestions to make for other people who might transfer and run into the same problems?

Brenda
Nightowl >8#

Yahoo routes everything inbound and outbound through a myriad of task-specific servers. It is entirely possible for ONE server to do something weird for a while. In general, Yahoo doesn't worry about individual servers being screwed up because of the way they constantly rotate using different servers. That is one of the reasons you will occasionally get a batch of Yahoo Group emails that are as much as a week late by the time the system catches up with itself.

I got that same message at one point today, did the same thing immediately and it worked. Most computers and online services have down time and wonkiness from time to time.



Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584
jwne@...

Same problem here in Michigan off and on all today

J_catlady,

Yahoo groups has been completely down for the past hour or so, with this
message, one I've never seen before.

I've had no problems reaching Yahoo Groups pages this morning or afternoon. It sounds like you're having some "internet weather" - a local or regional outage, or problems with Yahoo's edge servers.

-- Shal

开云体育

Vickie,

I said:

That way (assuming again you have "New Users Moderated" checked) the
joining member will be assigned the "Override: moderated" ('M') posting
privilege, which will stay in effect until you manually change it.

Oops, I made a mistake. Testing shows that having New Users Moderated checked results in the joining member being assigned the "Override: new user moderated" ('NuM') posting privilege, regardless of whether "Unmoderate After" is enabled or not.

No matter, it has the same effect: if Unmoderate after is not enabled the new member remains moderated until you manually change their posting privilege.

-- Shal

In beta@ Vickie wrote:
/g/beta/message/4852

The status badges I'm talking about refer only to posting privileges,
not to what they can access.

Ok so this is the same as yahoo.

Correct.

No I wouldn't until they reply to the group questionnaire
However they can still view the forum and read messages and members
emails are view-able.

I'm lost. Oh, maybe that's because you're talking about two different groups. I've inferred that the group in question has restricted membership, and that the archives are private. In that case, if you haven't approved these people as members they shouldn't be able to read messages or see emails.

1- First they must reply to the questionnaire upon joining. Once they
reply I would then approve their membership.

Right, that's what I've understood: group membership is restricted.

2- Once they submit the first post to the forum I can better judge the
members post to unmoderate the newbie member or not.

If you want to apply your own judgement to the merits of the newbie's posts then you should probably leave the "Unmoderate After" control set to Not Enabled. That way (assuming again you have "New Users Moderated" checked) the joining member will be assigned the "Override: moderated" ('M') posting privilege, which will stay in effect until you manually change it.

Shal, I have a few groups. I have one chat group and in my chat group
the members are free to view the forum. ...

However my giving group well, that is another matter..

Subgroups sounds like extra work.. I prefer to keep all members list in
one area..

Are these two groups on basically the same topic?

If so, and if the giving group members are all also members of the chat group (or if that could be made a requirement) then perhaps the giving group could be a subgroup of the chat group. Then you haven't added a new members list, just changed the way they're organized.

I am sorry I have taken up so much of everyone's time with my request.

;-)


-- Shal
/g/GroupManagersForum

Hi Jim,

Do you insert the "[excess quote trimmed by moderator]" manually?

I do.

I noticed that you use the Preformatted markup tag. I really like your
method.

In Yahoo Groups I had taken to using Lucida Console, a fixed-pitch font, to make my notes distinct from the member's text, without being too garish. In groups.io there isn't a font choice, so the nearest equivalent was selecting Preformatted. I think it looks ok.

-- Shal