A couple of comments and a question:

Just looked at Admin - Promote. That looks beefed up since the last time I looked! Several ways to promote your group, including links on your website, and through social media. Thanks for reminding me, Bruce.

Find a Group page - you can tweak your profile that appears on this page through your group Settings, Description. The search here has improved, but I would dearly love a category setting. Or a hashtag for the group and then searchable?

BTW, it took a bit of time to find the Shal's new help group in the Find a Group page. I searched by the name search, selected G, then selected results page, clicking to get to page 9 in the G's. (I did skip ahead obviously since "gr" is further along in the alphabet!)

Shal, your two groups about groups - this is the first time I remember hearing about your other group, Group_Help. Is this a more appropriate spot to refer newbies or would-be's? My daughter belongs to a home schooling group in YahooGroups. They are looking for a new home.

Frances

Many thanks, Shal and everyone else who jumped in here.

I tried using my Groups.io groups using my iPhone 7 and Safari, and, voila!,?everything worked perfectly.? Not so much when I used Google Chrome, but my testing with Chrome may have been flawed.

Something I really like about Groups.io: almost every time I need something, it turns out that the developer team has been down that road before me and come up with a better solution that I've have imagined.? :-)? Like Christmas every day,? Bravo!

Milt Baker

Thanks for the explanation about the DMARC issue. I will pass the info on to my member.
Annick

Don,

I have a member that ‘attached’ a picture to his email to the group,
and his picture is not stored in Emailed Photos.

Does the picture show in the group's Messages? As part of the message body or as an attachment?

Same question for the message if you received it in individual email.

There are several possibilities. Two of which involve the image being displayed as part of a formatted (HTML) message body. In the View source (aka Show Original) of the message these would be:

<img src="http:... Or https:...

These would be an image file fetched from a web site. The image file wasn't attached to the message, and would not appear in Emailed Photos. This form is often referred to as a "remote" image, and many email interfaces will defer loading them until you explicitly ask to show the image.

<img src="data:...

The image file is carried inline in the HTML of the message body. This is also technically not an attachment, but I think Groups.io ought to treat it as if it were.

I asked if they ‘embedded’ the picture, and they said no.

Well, members aren't always clear on what the terms mean, and the various email interfaces out there aren't often very clear on just how they will represent an image, whether placed by drag-n-drop, copy and paste, or with an Add Image dialog box can affect the representation, as can the source of the image (a file finder/explorer versus a web browser, for example).

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Reminder:
Group Managers Forum subscription reminder #admin

When:
Monday, 1 October 2018

Description:

This is your monthly subscription reminder for the Group Managers Forum. We are glad you joined our group.

• Our GMF Group's web resources are open and public. Our Messages archives and Wiki are viewable and searchable by non-members. GMF message archives are indexed by major search engines. Unfortunately, due to Groups.io restrictions, you must be a member of GMF and logged in to access our Files and Photos sections.

• We expect members to post and act responsibly. Please respect your fellow members' time and attention: strive to be clear, concise and courteous. Our subject matter naturally includes matters of opinion; if you happen to disagree with another member please do so without being rude. Personal attacks are not allowed. Solicitations are off topic and will be deleted without comment. Listing your groups in your signature is perfectly acceptable, but just make sure there's also on-topic content in your post.

• Attachments are allowed and the judicious use of screen shots and other illustrations is encouraged!

• All messages sent to GMF are moderated. This is done to avoid malicious attachments, spam, off-topic messages, and messages from spoofed or compromised mail accounts. Despite these measures, be aware that the bad guys are clever so there's no guarantee that we'll always succeed; you are encouraged to be vigilant against any and all threats arriving via email. Your GMF moderators make no guarantees regarding the safety of emails arriving from this or any other Groups.io address.

• We are always looking for suggestions from our members to make this group better for all. Feel free to address any questions, comments, or concerns directly to the group moderators via email to [email protected].

GMF Mission Statement:

We strive to be a resource of the highest quality for owners and moderators of Groups.io groups. We allow as much information as possible from our group to be accessed by visitors! Would you like to be a better Groups.io group owner and/or moderator? Would you like to see even more improvements in Groups.io groups? We discuss our experiences as both group owners and moderators, share ideas for promoting and customizing the content areas, and offer various techniques for managing groups.

To send a message to the members of this group, simply send email to [email protected].

If you do not wish to belong to GroupManagersForum you may unsubscribe by using the link in the footer of this (or any) message, or by sending an email to [email protected].

To see all of your group subscriptions, go to .

We thank you for your interest and for your contributions.

Shal, Founder & Owner
David, Moderator
Duane, Moderator
Latest revision: 2016-09-05

View Event.

开云体育

The repetition occurs when the person replying by email doesn't delete the photo from their reply.? The other steps are the way the site works.? Suggestions have been made on improving these steps, but there have been no changes recently.? Specific suggestions for things like this should be made on the , the official suggestion box of the site.

Duane
--
Help: /static/help
GMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Search button at the top of Messages list
A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions

开云体育

Annick,

One of my group members noticed that when she sends a message to our
group her return address looks like this:

user@...

Welcome to email according to DMARC.

It is not a bug.
/static/help#dmarc

It is Groups.io's work-around for certain email services' demand that any message from one of their users, if not delivered directly by them, be rejected by the receiver. The result, if Groups.io did not do this, is that messages from members using Yahoo, AOL, and various other services would be uniformly rejected when Groups.io forwards them to (other) members.

So the work-around is for Groups.io to re-write the From address so that the message is actually "From" the groups.io domain.

Yahoo Groups adopted a similar workaround, but they apply it uniformly to all messages, and the made the mistake (IMO) of using the group's posting address as the actual From email address in all messages. Which causes grave confusion in some email clients, especially mobile ones.

Search GMF for DMARC and you'll likely find more than you ever wanted to know about it.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

No, it's not a bug, it's a result of services that use DMARC: /static/help#why-are-emails-from-some-people-changed-to-be-via-groups-io

Duane
--
Help: /static/help
GMF's Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Search button at the top of Messages list
A few site FAQs: /static/pricing#frequently-asked-questions

Jim,

Yes... and to that I'd add that Yahoo.com isn't an ISP so anyone using
them for email delivery also has another option for email delivery at
the ISP they pay for Internet access.

It isn't always that straightforward. In recent years many ISPs have farmed out their email service to Yahoo, MSN, Google or other major mailbox providers, rather than run their own mailservers.

In fact, my current ISP doesn't offer email services at all. That's the primary reason I'm using Gmail at present - previously I'd been using the service that came with my ISP, but in my last switch I had to go find an independent mailbox provider.

That said, your point is valid: there are still several choices out there for mailbox service, despite all the consolidation in the industry.

A call to their ISP's Tech Support should tell them if that ISP uses
FBL and whether there's a setting to bypass all filtering and accept
all mail.

I tried that long ago to no avail - my ISP would not admit to having any filtering, yet I had pretty clear evidence of at least greylisting and sometimes outright rejecting my Yahoo Group messages. But then, it was Verizon DSL (back when they ran their own mailservers).

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

One of my group members noticed that when she sends a message to our group her return address looks like this:

Received from Bob Cook at 9/30/2018 01:31 PM UTC:

If you think you are going to "educate" these people, you are TOTALLY WRONG. They don't need to be a mechanic to drive their car. They should not have to learn to do something (every month or week!) to use groups.io. They have no idea how to access their spam folder or successfully move a message out of the spam/trash folder.

They don't have to be a full fledged mechanic to drive a car, but they darn sure need to know to change their oil and check fluid levels and tire pressure periodically - or pay someone else to do this on a reasonable schedule - if they want that car to keep running. One of the first things I did after my son got his driver's license... before he was let loose alone with the car... was to teach him how to change a tire.

And to continue with the car analogy, many (if not most) younger people can't drive a stick shift and would be thoroughly frustrated if pushed to learn. But I bet their grandfather can drive one and took the learning of it in stride at the time.

It really isn't that hard to find a JUNK folder and once there marking a message as "Not spam" is trivial. It **IS** hard to do if anger is allowed to override reason. In my experience the members who have the most problems dealing with problems are the one who are most angry about the problem. I tell them to lose the attitude and I'll be glad to help them. Abuse me and they're on their own.

Also in my experience, those who are concerned about "old people" (etc) are underrating most of their older members. And for those oldsters (infirm , etc) who really need outside help there's one of their children, grandchildren, perhaps even great grandchildren, or even the high school kid next door. I've pointed to those potential sources of help for those I couldn't help via email... with very good success.

Some people don't adapt well to change, but they will if they have no other choice AND if shown how at the same time.

Coming from years on Yahoo, this policy is a HUGE step backwards for my group.

Yahoo is not only too big to block, but they don't deal adequately with spammers operating from Yahoo Stores because they know they're too big to block. Groups.io isn't too big to block so they unsubscribe people who flag their messages as spam in order to avoid a bad reputation that will get even more of their mail blocked. It's a matter of survival. For me it's not even a matter of opinion which approach is more "backward."

Jim H

Received from Patty Sliney via Groups.Io at 9/29/2018 03:16 PM UTC:

And, we also include how to manage their Junk/Spam folders moving forward (teaching "old dogs new tricks" sort of thing.) I've gotten pushback from some of my list members about that last piece of advice. Our reply to them is: If you continue to just randomly empty your Junk/Spam folder without restoring authentic emails as "Not Spam", then you're going to be continually unsubbed from Groups.io, if there are emails from the same in your Junk/Spam folder. Bad Form. Not Best Practice. And perhaps our list is not the best place for you, then.

Harsh, but if someone isn't willing to make a small change in how they manage their email, nothing we can do about that.

A bit harsh sounding ONLY because it's missing the "why" part of why Gio does this. In my opinion that message above needs to be given exactly as straightforward as above... plus why. Then it needs to be read for comprehension and heeded... and then ignored at one's own peril. Refusing to recognize it as a currently inescapable reality and instead insist that Gio abandon its unsubscribed for marking as spam policy risks the future of Groups.io.

And, for what it's worth, for my lists, the most common email service unsubbed folks use are in order: @yahoo.com and @aol.com

Tho very few forced unsubs here, same experience in that Yahoo and AOL constitute most of them.

Yahoo is a web portal, not an ISP (OK so it IS an ISP, but under the SBC domain name). Folks using Yahoo.com as a delivery point for email have another email delivery option thru their own ISP. That's the option I recommend to my subscribers who are having problems with email at Yahoo. AOL and Yahoo are both marketed by Oath, which is a subsidiary of Verizon. It shouldn't come as a huge surprise that they share some of the same issues.

Jim H

Received from Duane at 9/30/2018 03:15 PM UTC:

On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 09:34 AM, Bob Cook wrote:
Coming from years on Yahoo, this policy is a HUGE step backwards for my group.

I think it's rather ironic that Yahoo is one of the main enforcers of the FBL policy when it comes to receiving emails, but don't seem to honor it when sending them. Until the FBL goes away, if ever, sites like Groups.io will need to honor it or face blacklisting from email services. It's also unnerving that Yahoo (and others) will decide that an email is spam, them use their seemingly arbitrary decision to send anything from that source to the spam folder. The main alternatives for now are to get folks to check for (possibly mislabeled) spam or change email providers to one that doesn't use FBL. Neither is a simple operation, but both work very well in most cases.

Yes... and to that I'd add that Yahoo.com isn't an ISP so anyone using them for email delivery also has another option for email delivery at the ISP they pay for Internet access. A call to their ISP's Tech Support should tell them if that ISP uses FBL and whether there's a setting to bypass all filtering and accept all mail.

Jim H

Received from Gerald Boutin at 9/29/2018 06:17 AM UTC:

For example, it is very common practice on commercial websites that are trying to sell a product or service to require your contact information in order to obtain access to free services and information. The welcome email always seems to include the "please add our email address to your white-list". Note that this is done up front before they start spamming me.

That "please add our email address..." message should be a warning that their emailing reputation is - fairly or unfairly - not so good. This is precisely why I maintain several email addresses on Yahoo... addresses I use only when I absolutely must give an email address to someone I don't want to have my real email address. I'd give Yahoo's email filters a score of 9.9 out of 10 for effectiveness. Later on, if I unsubscribe and the unsubscription request isn't honored, I mark the next message as spam and Yahoo's filter takes care of them. I highly recommend this approach for use with sites you really don't want to have your main email address. And don't let the name "Yahoo" scare you. YahooGroups stinks on ice, but email is handled quite well.

Jim H

开云体育

Tony,

Is it not possible to see if it was the ISP marked the message as
spam? _or_if it was the Subscriber?

The information provided in FBL reports apparently varies with different email services. Mark has said that the ones causing this trouble do not provide any detail on why the message was reported.

I once suggested he use a heuristic to distinguish this: look at the delay from message delivery to it appearing in an FBL report. If the delay is on the order of 30 days or more then likely the message was auto-deleted from a spam folder. If it is relatively prompt (a day or two) it is likely the user marking it spam.

Mark was skeptical of this, noting that the email services tend to run their FBL reports in batches, so the timing would be suspect in either case. I don't know if he ever looked into the statistics to see if there would be a chance of making that work.

Simultaneously Groups.io tell the subscriber, if if possible, that
their ISP is denying delivery of emails they have subscribed for.

Delivery isn't being denied (that would be a "Bounce", aka message rejection). Rather delivery is being diverted to the member's spam folder.

Shal


--
Help: /static/help
More Help: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki
Even More Help: Search button at the top of Messages list

Not having gotten into the cell phone revolution until a couple years ago, I always wondered what an app was when I could already use my browser on my PC. I thought I might be missing something, but I think I've figured it out. Apps were invented collect ad revenue.?

To be a bit more coordinated with my information, I can also add that using groupsio via a browser on my cellphone works great.

--
Gerald

开云体育

Coming from years on Yahoo, this policy is a HUGE step backwards for my group.

I think it's rather ironic that Yahoo is one of the main enforcers of the FBL policy when it comes