Thanks Shal for the details. The notice I got from Groups.io was dated yesterday and the last Earthlink outage was on Feb 27th, e.g. the message was generated more recently.

According to my group's Activity list, there were two Earthlink subscribers who bounced yesterday - myself and one other person - and another of my group members (also Earthlink) who bounced this afternoon. Apparently something is going on at Earthlink that is causing unusual behavior; outages of the breadth and duration that occurred twice this past week are rare, and now this bouncing problem. I expect they are related but not necessarily in an obvious way.

One of my members has a subscription problem, as stated below.

Any suggestions as to how to assist him?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Model Railroads of Southern California

Railroad Citrus Industry Modeling Group

Railway Bull Shippers Group

++++

A few days ago I stopped getting emails from Groups.io. Yesterday they sent me an email saying messages to me were bouncing and gave me instructions to reset my account so messages to me would not bounce. After I went through the reset one email from PassengerCarList got to me yesterday afternoon then nothing since.

Today I tried changing the email address on my account to one of my other addresses to see if that would help. The change went though but needed a password reset. They sent me an email to reset the password but I never got it. It probably also bounced.

So now my email has changed but I have no way to get to my subscriptions without the password reset.

Is there any way to contact a live person at Groups.io?

Joe,

And that the Groups ummm "Brain" has stopped sending E-Mails to my
address from every group I am a member of.

That's because the "bouncing" status is connected to your email address, not to any particular group subscription.

Thing is I never have e mails get bounced NEVER EVER.

You have now.

Looking at your GMF subscription I see that several recent messages were rejected ("bounced") by your email service. They gave the following Reason:

554 Failed: Malformed MIME field: Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2019 08:17:05 +0100
(Hora es [0xE1] ...

Interestingly, the bounced messages were all from the same Topic: "Subscriber was removed for marking a message as spam?"

Maybe their service has a bug with message Subjects that end with a question mark? or maybe the word "spam".

You can get a comprehensive (all groups) view of the messages your email service has rejected by looking at the Recent Bounces page in your Groups.io Account.

In any case, you probably need to contact the technical support of your email service to ask them for details on that error response. It seems like they have a bug in their MIME processing.

You could also ask [email protected] about it, but given that no one else has reported this problem it is more likely to be your email service.

Shal


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I just got a message telling me that bouncing messages to me.

And that the Groups ummm "Brain" has stopped sending E-Mails to my address from every group I am a member of. Not just whatever was bouncing. Thing is I never have e mails get bounced NEVER EVER.

But they provided a link to re set all again.

Odd.

Joe WB9SBD

Hi all,

I’m the owner Brian is talking about. In a few minutes I will send out an admin notice to my group asking folks to help convince Earthlink to try to minimize this problem in the future.

Cheers,

Joseph

?

?

Virginia,

I do have the footer with the options for "Reply to Sender" etc turned
on. However, when that link is clicked, it opens in my desktop mail
app and strips out the message I'm replying to ...

More accurately, it fails to insert a copy of the original. Most email interfaces don't support the parameter needed to fill in the message body from a mailto: style link, so to avoid confusion Groups.io doesn't use it.

Those links do not technically create replies - they create new messages. Groups.io adds parameters to fill in the To: and Subject: fields, but not the body.

... but most of the group members will just click Reply in their mail
app out of habit - after all everything else works that way - so why
does email received via Groups.io require a special technique?

Clicking Reply is what I generally do, and it generally works as intended. Those links are provided for members who want to do something different than the group's default.

Now, with messages sent via Groups.io, clicking Reply sends one copy
to the originator and one to the group;

Because that's what you set it to: Group and Sender. Try just Sender.

Shal


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Samuel,

It appears that the options in the dropdown list under Reply To in the
group settings apply only to the web interface, and doesn't have any
effect on messages being sent via e-mail.

That is not correct.

In messages sent by email it controls the Reply-To header field.

Most (not all, dammit) email interfaces will take the Reply-To header field to supersede the From address for the purpose of its Reply function. In particular this is how discussion groups (like GMF) cause email messages to reply to the group.

How do you get a Reply All button in Groups.io's web interface?

I believe Virginia was only discussing email interfaces w.r.t. Reply All.

In Groups.io's web interface the buttons that are shown to send a Reply are more directly controlled by the group's Reply To option. The button on the left under the composition window is Group or Sender according to the Group's option, and if the group allows it there's a button on the right to switch to the other one.

Shal



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Virginia,

Our group's Reply To option is set to "Group and Sender" thinking that
would work the same as it did in Yahoo Groups, where clicking Reply
sends a response only to the Sender and Reply All goes to both the
sender and the group.

That's not what "Group and Sender" means. It means that Reply should go to both. I suspect that your Yahoo Group was actually set to "Sender".

That would cause the Reply-To field to have the sender's address.

The behavior of Reply-All is much more varied with various email interfaces, but it would customarily include all recipients of the message, so it would reply to both the sender (taken from the Reply-To field) and the group (taken from the To field).

In Groups.io setting the group's "Reply All" to "Sender" also might do what you want.

In Thunderbird it gives me two buttons: Reply (goes to sender) and Reply List (goes to group). If I go to the menu and pick Reply All it goes to both.

Shal


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Hi all,

This week's change log:



Feel free to reply to this topic if you'd like to comment on the
changes. Or better yet, if you expect a lot of discussion start a new
topic (or rejoin an existing one) about a specific change.

CHANGE: Wording change in the pending group approval message. Thanks
Shal and J.

And thanks to Stephanie (#15040) for pointing out the awkward wording.

NEW: We use the DNS MX domains when sending email to determine if a
person's email is hosted by Gmail or by Outlook 365. If such, we re-
write the From header, if appropriate.
NEW: In the account prefs page, we display if we are re-writing the
From line of messages sent to you because your email is hosted by
Gmail or Exchange.
NEW: We now have two internal lists of domains: domains hosted by
Gmail and domains hosted by Exchange. For gmail hosted domains, we
re-write the From line for messages we send back to the sender. For
Exchange hosted domains, we re-write the From lines for all
messages.

These all go together, and relate to issues some members were having. The bottom line is that Mark has added some automatic means of detecting email addresses that need to be handled, in addition to his internal lists. Hopefully this means affected members will have a better experience with message delivery going forward.

The Gmail issue is continued fall-out from the Spoof warning that cropped up some time ago. It turns out that some members' email is processed by Gmail under a different domain name and Mark hadn't yet added them to his internal list; so they were still experiencing the problem.
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/13433

The Exchange issue had to do with Exchange rejecting messages that were from the same domain (not just the same member) but arrived from outside. Munging the From address in those cases eliminates the problem.


Comments about these are welcome:

API: Updated the /getmessages api.
SYSADMIN: Increased security of internal systems.
SYSADMIN: Added an additional web server.
NEW: Internal infrastructure to substitute email headers in group
messages more easily.
CHANGE: Updated API docs with latest version, generated using the new
automated tools.
SYSADMIN: Moved disaster recovery backups off the main database server
to a replica to reduce load.
CHANGE: We were virus scanning files that are uploaded to the files
section, but we weren't blocking them when they tested positive. We
now block and log them.

Please call out any you find significant.

Shal


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开云体育

Jim,

? ? ? ? ? Thanks for that.? On one of the groups I moderate this afternoon a message came in to the owner from a subscriber using Earthlink.? I pointed the owner to this topic but also copied and pasted your offering for him directly.

? ? ? ? ? ?My final sentences in my e-mail to the owner were:?
Groups.io needs to be whitelisted and the more customers that complain to their e-mail service providers about this the faster it will happen.?
--

Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

???? I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

? ? ? ? ?~ Galileo Galilei

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 03:34 PM, Shal Farley wrote:

I did not interpret Brian's use of the word "moderated" in that context to refer to message moderation

For the sake of clarity (or maybe not) I consider even having to approve a single message as a member being moderated, until they're not.

I have dealt with services where that was not required and could be set.? Apparently it cannot be here, which is a shame were it to be wanted, which is why I asked.
?
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Brian - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134

???? I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

? ? ? ? ?~ Galileo Galilei

Jim,

"Posts to this group require approval from the moderators..." in which
case neither group accepts members as "immediately accepted and not
moderated."

Did I miss something?

Maybe I did.

I did not interpret Brian's use of the word "moderated" in that context to refer to message moderation. I read it as meaning "immediately accepted as opposed to requiring moderator approval" - referring to the membership itself.

Shal


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Received from Shal Farley at 3/2/2019 04:39 PM UTC:
?

Brian,

Is it possible to set up a group where a subscribe request is just automatically processed and the member is immediately accepted and not moderated?

Yes. Beta and GMF both operate this way.

Shal,

I'm confused. I read the settings you posted (above) as saying that subscriptions to Beta and GMF are immediately accepted, but that "Posts to this group require approval from the moderators..." in which case neither group accepts members as "immediately accepted and not moderated."

Did I miss something?

Jim H

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 02:16 PM, Peter Rawbone wrote:

xxxxx@gmail.com?has twice tried to respond and under Activity is this: “础肠迟颈惫颈迟测	Created?
A Pending member?xxxxxxxx@...?attempted to send message "Application information as requested." via email”

The response is being diverted because this person is not a subscriber yet.

It's generally best to instruct people replying to the Pending Subscription member notice to send it to the group's +owner address. Alternatively, you can change your group settings to allow non-subscribers to post (see Admin>Settings>Message Policies), in which case the response can be sent to the group posting address but will be moderated.?

Is it possible for a Moderator to resend a pending message and if so, how?

Go to Admin>Members and open the Pending subscriber's record. Scroll to the bottom of the resulting page and click on Send Message. Below the message editor on the resulting page is a pull-down "Notices" menu that you can use to select and resend the notice.
?
Hope this helps,
Bruce
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Received from Brian Vogel at 3/2/2019 04:26 PM UTC:

This spins off a related question, but since I'm moderating groups all of which require approval I can't answer:
Is it possible to set up a group where a subscribe request is just automatically processed and the member is immediately accepted and not moderated? I'd have to believe there is, and if so, that could be at play here.

I'd say NO. As I understand it the anti-spam settings require that either the subscription request requires approval... or else if approval isn't required then the first X messages will be moderated. No such thing as automatic approval without initial moderation.

Jim H

I'm the owner of a restricted group that directs replies to the person who originated the message and when I reply via my personal email client the reply is addressed only to the originator of the email.

I suspect some of your subscribers are using email clients that either don't properly observe the "Reply-To:" header or that have been configured to "reply to all" when clicking "reply."

Jim H



Received from Virginia at 3/2/2019 03:40 AM UTC:

Received from Olympia Friends Meeting at 3/2/2019 01:51 AM UTC:

This is now also happening to all three of the subscribers on my small (and new to groups.io) list who have earthlink.net email addresses.

Is there something I can tell them to do to fix it on their end short of switching to gmail.com?

thanks,
Gabi

Tell them to visit the link below and follow directions found there. The IP address for Groups.io mail server is 66.175.222.12



They can also complain to Earthlink about non-spam mail from a MAILING LIST SERVICE like Groups.io being blocked. They don't block Yahoo or GoogleGroups, so why Groups.io? The info for doing that can be found here...


I suggest initiating both a live chat and a phone call. If enough do that it will get their attention. They need to point out that Groups.io is a reputable and legitimate subscription mailing list service that requires subscribers to verify their intent to subscribe by verifying their email addresses... after which the messages from various interest groups hosted by Groups.io are solicited and are NOT spam. As Shal said, "Groups.io should be whitelisted as a legit email service."

Having worked the abuse desk for a small local ISP quite some years ago, I'm aghast at the careless blocking practices being employed these days... and Gmail isn't the solution.

Jim H