sally.suzy,

When clicking "reply", the "to" email address comes up as
"[email protected]" ...

That's odd.

Maybe it is getting that from the Return-Path header field, but if so that's a mistake. It should use the From: address for a reply.

If this is something it does in general it isn't going to be too useful, because normal group messages use the Return-Path field for bounce tracking. Every reply she'd have to override it and enter the group's posting address.

Apart from boosting to Premium, the only other thing I can think of to suggest is to contact [email protected] and see if they'd be willing to confirm her address for you.

However, if this really is a case of using an email gateway to a feature phone's SMS messaging then I can't imagine she's in for a satisfactory experience.

Shal



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On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 03:45 PM, Shal Farley wrote:

truncated the confirmation reply address

something like that might be happening.? When clicking "reply", the "to" email address comes up as "[email protected]" (instead of the full confirmation address that is unique to her account? -- with various numbers/letters/encoding or whatever). ? If she knew what that unique confirmation address was, she'd reply to that -- but it's not visible.

sally.suzy,

She tried that but it didn't work. I have just figured out why. The
email service she uses sends her outgoing messages from a different
address than her account address. So she's sending a confirmation
reply from an address that groups.io doesn't recognize.

Actually, Groups.io is supposed to understand that. If the confirmation reply comes back from a different address it fills the returning address into the account's Email Alias automatically. Or is supposed to. Thereafter her replies should work from that address as if they had been sent from the subscribed address.

But maybe something else her interface did to the reply may have caused the failure. Long ago I tried to set up the email gateway on my flip-phone as a member of a Yahoo group. The problem I ran into was that the phone truncated the confirmation reply address, causing it to fail.

I had to resort to Direct Add to overcome that, which Y!Groups had at the time, but I found the result useless anyway because the address and subject text used up the allotted characters, leaving little or nothing for the message contents. Your mileage may vary of course.

Is there some way for me as the admin to add a second
email to her unconfirmed account, so she can confirm it.

No. Because accounts may be subscribed to multiple groups, there is very little that a group owner can do that affects an account.

There are a few exceptions that apply when the account is brand new (being created automatically during a group join), but those are the Timezone, Time Display, Date Display, and Calendar formats - which fill in from your group's Default Sub Settings tab on the Settings page.

I know you said that getting a premium membership for a month would
help, so that I could just add her and skip the confirmation process.

You don't need to Direct Add her again (in fact you can't if her address is already in the Members list), just confirm her address. You can do that through her page in the Members list.

... so I can't just join them add them in all at once. It seems
we'd need a premium groups.io account for six months to facilitate
that, and I'd rather avoid that.

I understand. It was just a suggestion in case you were considering Premium anyway.

I do the Premium for a month thing in my PTA group to cover primary the membership drives (registration, and spring), but sometimes end up with three or four months Premium in a school year.

Shal


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On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 03:28 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

Dave -- This is not a bug.?

Ahh, thanks Bruce, but you're reciting events that I did not report.
There are no duplicates.
There is only one copy. It has been attributed to a member who did not reply with photos at all. We are more savvy than that and just if necessary cite brief text...

This behavior has been discussed often, most recently here:?/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/32524744#17760 .?It often happens if the person quotes your original message without removing the photo. That being so, the Emailed Photos folder should contain both your original photo and the duplicate.

Not the circumstance described.

Groups.io has no way to determine whether something attached to?any?incoming message is accidental or intentional (even a duplicate can be intentional). Short of asking your subscribers to use more discretion when quoting/replying, there is currently no way to keep this from happening.

As they're not replying "with photos", nothing explains why IOG tags my original pix to another member who only replies to a post, via trimmed email or no text citation at all. I do not agree that there is not something fishy going on, yet it appears unimportant enough to not bother with, yet.

Thanks again,
d

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 01:39 PM, Shal Farley wrote:

I'm curious how such a limited device can click on web links, but that's not really relevant at this point.

There are some [very cheap] cell phone plans that provide only texting service without full internet. That sounds very much like what we're dealing with here.

Regards,
Bruce?
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Shai said: "If her interface has a Reply function, she should just use that. She doesn't need to use any links or addresses inside the body of that notice."

She tried that but it didn't work. I have just figured out why.? The email service she uses sends her outgoing messages from a different address than her account address. So she's sending a confirmation reply from an address that groups.io doesn't recognize.? She cannot add that second address to her account until after her account is confirmed, so we are stuck.? Is there some way for me as the admin to add a second email to her unconfirmed account, so she can confirm it.

I know you said that getting a premium membership for a month would help, so that I could just add her and skip the confirmation process. I understand what you mean but ...

However, our organization has other members who have similar email systems to hers, and they would be joining our groups.io, sporadically over next few months. The situation is that I won't be in contact with them for a while (we meet bimonthly) and I don't have their email addresses, so I can't just join them add them in all at once. It seems we'd need a premium groups.io account for six months to facilitate that, and I'd rather avoid that.

Linda

In Admin, Settings:

For attachments, see Message Formatting. There you can set it to Moderate. That would allow you to attach (and selectively attachments if you wish).

For photos, you have several options. In Features, choose one of the permissions. Likely you will want Subscribers can view, moderators can upload.

You can also set maximum size.

Frances

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Linda,

I would like to be able to post pictures/attachments but do not want
my members posting attachments. Is there a setting for this?

Not really.

But you can force messages with attachments to be moderated. See the Attachments control in the Message Formatting section of the group's Settings page.

Then it is a matter of training your users that their messages will be rejected if they include attachments.

Shal


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I would like to be able to post pictures/attachments but do not want my members posting attachments.? Is there a setting for this?

Linda

sally.suzy,

It gets cut off long before getting to the part where the email
would give the email address to reply to or the link to click on.
There simply is no way she can reply.

If her interface has a Reply function, she should just use that. She doesn't need to use any links or addresses inside the body of that notice.

She doesn't need to say anything in the body of her reply.

In my admin settings I can change the wording of the invitation, the
wording of the welcome, etc. But I cannot find a way to change the
wording of the confirmation email.

True. The confirmation is a system function and group owners have no control over it.

Note that you only have limited control over the Invitation text: the boilerplate above and below what you write cannot be changed. The Welcome notice, on the other hand, is all yours.

Is there any way a SHORTER confirmation email can be sent to her that
STARTS with the "reply to" email or the link to click on?

There is no such feature. You can request improvements to Groups.io by way of the beta group:

Please help.

A completely different approach, if your group is Premium, is that you can confirm her email address instead of sending sending her a new confirmation request. If your group is not Premium, maybe it is worth the $10 price of going Premium for one month to resolve this problem.

Shal
(I'm curious how such a limited device can click on web links, but that's not really relevant at this point.)


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A new member can receive only very short emails the size of a small text message.? (around 140 characters).? And they can receive emails only in plain text, with no pictures embedded.? This would work find for our group because that would be the sort of message we would send.? However your confirmation email looks like the following characters between the dotted lines:

---------------------

([GroupName] Confirm your emailaddress@... email address) Hello,

Thank you for your interest in the https://GroupName.groups.io/g/GroupName at

---------------------

Note that there is a whole line or two of spaces after the final word "at".? It gets cut off long before getting to the part where the email would give the email address to reply to or the link to click on.? There simply is no way she can reply.? And this is the only device she has, so she cannot receive the full confirmation email another way.

I've already approved her membership, she is in my group, but she is in "NC" status so she cannot participate yet. Is there any way a SHORTER confirmation email can be sent to her that STARTS with the "reply to" email or the link to click on?? In my admin settings I can change the wording of the invitation, the wording of the welcome, etc. But I cannot find a way to change the wording of the confirmation email.? Please help.

开云体育

Put it on your calendar.? I send out?5 announcements per week and they are all on the calendar.? You can set it to weekly and put a reminder. ? Gloria? ? ? ? ?

I like the daily summaries for all my groups. I get one email per day per group if there is activity.

On Sun, Sep 15, 2019 at 10:09 AM, P H LLOYD wrote:

Peter's message evidently didn't reach me....? Sorry, but the point remains.

You could always try looking on the web UI.

Chris

Peter's message evidently didn't reach me....? Sorry, but the point remains.

Peter (another one!)

On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 11:18 AM, P H LLOYD wrote:

Since Chris in his latest message has not copied the letter he was responding to, I am not sure what the "Guess" is that he refers to.

I was quoting Peter's message that was immediately before mine.

In other news this PC (which from past experience exhibits the "problem") uses XP + Outlook 2003. (No laughing at the back please!)

I will do the same test using my laptop (should have done it while I was away; would save getting it out again) because that uses Win7 + Outlook 2013; it will be worth seeing if there is any difference in behaviour.

It won't make any difference "internet - wise" because both ostensibly use BT, although not the Yahoo variant. IIRC my email service is provided by cpcloud.

Chris

Trista,

Ok, I've just sent the message again - third time lucky maybe...

Thanks for sticking with this off-list.

I think the header you sent from the message that posted in your group actually solved the mystery. It was synchronoss.net's fault - they trimmed the +owner off of the address. They probably do the same for all email commands, including +subscribe.

I posted my analysis in a later topic related to this subject:
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/18774

But knowing "who dunnit" doesn't really resolve the problem. I still think it is necessary for all unmoderated groups to put btinternet.net members on moderation so that their misdirected email commands don't post to the list. I'm not entirely certain that Groups.io will be able to work-around this, or that we can convince them that they should.

Shal


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Peter,

... so it confirms the earlier experiments and points to the culprit
being btinternet or synchronoss.

And, following up with a similar case reported by another member I have evidence to implicate synchronoss.net
/g/GroupManagersForum/topic/33141231

Off-list Trista sent me the header for a misdirected message that posted into her group. In the following two Received fields note particularly the "for" clauses:

Received: from re-prd-rgout-002.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net ([10.2.54.5])
by re-prd-fep-041.btinternet.com
with ESMTP id

<20190904180319.WRUD7208.re-prd-fep-041.btinternet.com@...>

for <[email protected]>; Wed, 4 Sep 2019 19:03:19 +0100
...
Received: from [redacted]-imac.home ([redacted)
by re-prd-rgout-002.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net (5.8.337)

(authenticated as [redacted]@btinternet.com)

id 5D6FA3290010097D
for [email protected]; Wed, 4 Sep 2019 19:03:19 +0100

The second is synchronoss saying that they received the message from the member's iMac, intended for the +owner address.

The first is btinternet saying that they received the message from synchronoss, intended for the group posting address.

I don't know for a fact about these two services, but I believe that servers generally record in the Received header very literally what they received. Which in this case would imply that synchronoss trimed the "+owner" off of the address after receiving it from the member's iMac and before delivering it to btinternet.

That's what I call a smoking gun.

Shal


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Thank you, Bruce! That's what I was afraid of.

I did send her the information from the "Recent bounces" list etc. and approved her new email so she can start receiving messages again. My hope is that she will continue to work with her ISP and get it resolved at their end so that she can merge the accounts later on.

Of if not, I'll give it a while and then delete the old one that's not working.

kg4ype,

I feel like this mail server has more problems than it worth. All I
get is messages of all the problems ...

GMF is a help group, so it is to be expected that in this group you'll hear a lot from people having problems. Don't let that color your impression of Groups.io as a service.

... is there a way where I can sttop it. WAY TOO MUCH JUNK.

You can use the Subscription settings and change your message delivery to digest or summary. Under advanced preferences you can use the Message Selection controls to limit the number of messages sent to you. In particular you can choose to receive only replies to topics you're interested in.

Or, if you don't need any help with using Groups.io right now you can leave the group and come back later. We have an open door policy: drop in when you need us, its ok if you drop out when you don't.

Or just learn to cheerfully delete the messages that don't interest you.

Shal
GMF Moderator


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