On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 03:56 am, Chris V wrote:

I am used to Yahoo Groups and emails from this system don't have say they come from one's email address, true the email address is in the header but not displayed by Thunderbird.

Chris -- Another poster (ref: /g/GroupManagersForum/message/9456?) has already stated that Google Groups behaves as Yahoo does:? The original sender's email address is in the From field (and perhaps elsewhere).

I use my ISP's webmail and this From field is prominently displayed. Many other clients do so as well. If Thunderbird isn't one of them, that's fine, but it's giving you a false sense of security. Spammers are fully capable of harvesting any portion of the header information for what they want.

Your previous message suggests some well-reasoned approaches, and as a group owner I wouldn't mind having such a tool in my toolbox. At the same time, GMF members are in no position to implement them for you. With similar functionality unavailable elsewhere, I suggest that your next step is to resurrect the "anonymous group" thread in beta.?

Good luck,
Bruce?
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On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:36 am, Kathleen Taormina wrote:

so i do a post to my group which is a screen shot of "spanglish for gringos".? will not post via the group site. it never even shows up for moderating. i do it through email....bang.? right there. what's up with that? is it maybe because no text?

Empty messages are discarded if you use the online message editor. I don't know whether after adding an attachment the message "should" be considered "empty", though. If this is something you plan to do frequently you might consider reporting it to support as a bug.

Hope this helps,
Bruce?
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On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:36 am, Janet Panecki wrote:

I wish to invite a former member of the Composition doll group on yahoo to this one on IO.? How do I do this?

Go to Admin->Invite. Enter her email address in the box, and click on the Send Invitations button.
?
Bruce
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Thanks, Duane and Bruce, for explaining about those png files. Now I can tell my member it's not any kind of error that she is personally doing. Fortunately, in my group of several hundred people, she is the only one replying with Windows 10 Mail so far.
Annick

My observations, from opening one or two:?

Who can create a chat depends on your group settings.

Chat participation is limited to group subscribers only. A "private" chat, with only a subset of the group, does not appear to be an available feature.

Chats can later be closed or deleted. Closed chats remain visible but you can't add to them. Once deleted, they are gone.

Hope this helps,
Bruce
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Chris V said:

I have just set up a group of some 300 and been hit by this 'feature'
This is MORE than just a spam issue. People sign up to talk to others of similar interested.
BUT they do not sign up to have everyone know their email address.

Because of this and the EU GDPR regulations I have had to close the group I just set up (lasted a couple of days)

For me to set up more groups larger than a handful of people this MUST be changed to send emails from only a groups.io email address

Chris, one way around this is to set the default for your group as "Full featured digest", "Plain digest" or "Daily summary".? This way the messages are sent out in digest form every time 10 messages are accumulated or once a day.? The messages never have the person's individual email address on them and a person can choose to reply directly to a message on the digest or come online to view all of the messages and reply there.? My group is often so busy that if I had individual messages sent to my email I would feel "spammed" just by the sheer volume of messages.? I tested out each version for a few days to see which I liked and have chosen my favorite for the groups I belong to. There is no need to have individual messages with the person's email address on them and you could help ensure their privacy this way.? However, if the person themselves choose to reply "privately" to a person's message, their email address will show up to that person, but only that person.
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Shal

'having one's email address in the From field when you send an email is entirely normal.'

I am used to Yahoo Groups and emails from this system don't have say they come from one's email address, true the email address is in the header but not displayed by Thunderbird.
How does Google Groups work?

Chris

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Shal

thank you very much for your replies on this subject.

I have had a read of the topic I hope this is the one you meant. Yes some very different and also wild views.

I see one of Richard's comments was "The problem is that some members really don't want their email address to be visible to other members. I don't necessarily share their view, but it's not my job to question their motivation, and I'm rather sad to have to tell them that at present, their email address will be visible to anyone who receives posts via email."

Another aspect is that anyone with my email address in their mail or address book can get hacked When this happens it often results in ones email address getting into the hands of the hacker and then you start getting spam.

I doubt many Yahoo group members know that their email address is sent out to everyone on a list as it is hidden in the header and many of my users would not even know what a header is let alone be able to display it all. Hence their shock when they see From email addresses displayed.

I assume all subscribers to Groups.io has a unique record number or ID. I seem to have id 1038722 and Richard is 124864. This number is true for my profile and Richard's on two groups.

If this is correct then would an option as below be possible and solve some of these issues.

• An option in the Group settings to allow users to hide/obfuscate their email address on sent emails
• An option in a subscribers profile to hide/obfuscate their email address on sent emails, if the above is set on
• If the above are true to send emails from an email address like [email protected] and for the system to match that with the user as required.

The email then does not need the real email address and should retain the users profile name.
Owners would still be able to see email addresses.
I had not realised that when I sent an email to the 900+ members of GroupManagersForum that they would all instantly see my email address. The web interface had given me a false sense of security.

Hope that is constructive
Chris

Patty,

We have a list member who is trying to set up her transfer account
with a password.

By "transfer account" I assume you're talking about an email address that came over from a Yahoo Group.

She had an @ameritech.net email address with Yahoo Groups, but she
cannot get Groups.io to send the "send me a sign in link" email to her
inbox. Or, her Spam/Junk folder.

One easy mistake to make is to typo your email address when typing it into the web page. Then the message with the link goes off to nowhere. There's no easy way to detect this, the member just has to be careful. Maybe copy the address from a received message (see the footer) and paste it into the Groups.io web form.

Shal


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Chris,

So my question is: why make the web site secure so members cannot see
one's email address and then make it very public in any emails you
receive?

Because your email inbox is not "public". Or, at least isn't supposed to be.

The web pages are another matter. Some, like GMF's are explicitly public. Others are quasi-public - members only, but with open membership. Even the members only pages of a restricted group are subject to harvesting if a crook fools a moderator into approving them.

Shal


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Michael,

Yes, that’s what we do - it’s just more cumbersome than a more
thoughtful, better featured Invite process should be.

From my point of view Invite works exactly as it should. I don't want people that I invite to end up in the Pending list - I've already vetted them and I want them to be members.

So you want something else. You want to invite someone to request membership. As opposed to inviting them to be a member directly.

One possibility would be to have it be an option on the Invite page - Invite to request membership as opposed to Invite to join. My concern is that if we break the traditional semantics of Invite in this way it may lead to a lot of confusion.

I wish I could think of a better name for the function you want. Offer. Solicit. Request. Ask. "We ask that you request membership" - that's not too bad. Encourage. Propose. Suggest. Urge. Lure.

Actually, it kind of goes with the Promote function, maybe that's it.

Instead of promotion by display on a web site, you're looking to send messages promoting your group. Replying to the promotion would make the addressee a Pending member, and send them the Pending SUbscription notice.

Shal


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Shal,

So far my Pending Subscription Notices seem to have been posted correctly because the containing questionnaires were returned to me.

According to what you say it means: if I want to know about the notice being delivered I must look it up in a timely manner.
And thanks for your answer.

Victoria

Chris,

People sign up to talk to others of similar interested.
BUT they do not sign up to have everyone know their email address.

Yes, they do.

Having one's email address in the From field when you send an email is entirely normal. And is a long tradition in email lists as well - which basically just forward email from posters to subscribers.

For me to set up more groups larger than a handful of people this MUST
be changed to send emails from only a groups.io email address

That's your call, of course.

There was an extensive discussion some years ago in beta about "anonymous" groups - groups that would do what you want and never include the posting member's email address in outbound messages (not even in obscure header fields). In essence, the site would copy the message body only, creating the outbound messages as entirely new emails from the group's address.

There were many difficulties with the idea, not the least of which was having some other unique identifier for each member. The User Name field in one's account profile is likely what would have ended up being used. But it would mean that every member would have to log into the site at least once to set their User Name.

If you care to read about it, "anonymous" would probably be the apt search term in beta.

Shal


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On 19 Jun 2018 at 16:02, Shal Farley wrote:

Jim Fisher wrote:

If Oath think that would enable them to ignore the requirements of GDPR
they
are sadly mistaken. I have no doubt that any EU court would dismiss such a
pledge as legally null and void.

The GDPR is such a deep rabbit-hole I'd rather not go down it on behalf of
every third-party company we use.

Oath is only relevant here because some of us and our group members may be
using Oath-brand email services (Yahoo Mail, AOL). Whatever follies may
ensue from Oath's (lack of) understanding of the GDPR, hopefully the
fallout for our groups would be limited to members wishing to change
addresses.

Shal

Thank you for that so courteous and gentle admonishment for going off topic.

Jim

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Michael,

This User Name thing, with the @ sign - is this a Twitter address or
what?

Or what.

It is a site-wide unique name for the user. If the user sets one. At one time it was to be a shorthand for a link to the user's Account profile. But that never come to pass. It was also discussed as an alternative to putting the user's email address in the From field of "anonymous" groups. But that too was never implemented.

How is it used and by whom? Where and how will I get any messages from
someone using it?

It isn't and you won't. For now.

Shal


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Well,

That was certainly unexpected. And a bit alarming if you didn't know where to look.

For all the new members to GMF - you want to know about the status page, and the fact that you can subscribe to it to get alert emails when there is a site problem.

Groups.io Status:

Shal


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [Groups.io status] Monitoring : Site Outage
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 06:25:10 +0000
From: noreply@...
To: shals2nd@...

Site Outage : Monitoring


Machines are starting to come back on-line now. We will bring up the groups.io service when our cluster is completely back up and stable.



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Victoria,

There is no notification in the members Email Delivery history about
the Pending Subscription notice as far as I could see

Those two places only hold the one most recent. Was there anything listed there that would have been newer than the Pending Subscription notice? That may have knocked it aside.

Otherwise, check your list of member notices to be sure that you have marked a Pending Subscription notice as "Active". Otherwise it won't be sent.

Shal


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Daniel,

All my different E-Mail Accounts still had my full name as name of
sender. Apparently, groups.io isn't differentiating between e-mail
addresses but between names.

No, that's not right. Whether inbound (posting) or outbound (receiving) the actual email address is all that matters - the display name portion of the address is just for display purposes - it isn't used by software.

And since my name was always the same, I always got 2 mails to my main
address, no matter which one sent the mail.

If you're talking about messages sent to the group's posting address, it wouldn't matter which address sent the message, as long as it is subscribed to the group (or is an alias for an address that is, or if the group allows non-subscriber posts). And all else being equal, each of your subscribed addresses would receive a copy of the message. That's basic list operation.

One thing you can do to help clarify this is look at the footer of the two copies. At the end of the footer is the subscribed email address. That will likely tell the story.

Shal


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Yes this is an email service, but it does not have too make one's email address so public. This is at odds with the web site view.

To view the directory for this group GMF I have to make my profile viewable by the rest of the members.

Having done that I can now list other members. I can email them via a form (cannot see their email addresses)

I can view their profile (cannot see their email address)

When I list what posts they have sent then I can see their posterid (e.g. posterid:967063) So it seems everyone has a unique id

So my question is: why make the web site secure so members cannot see one's email address and then make it very public in any emails you receive?

Chris