Some in-message photos do not display

#34849

A member of one of my premium groups sent a message that includes ten photos. Six of the photos display properly when I click on their thumbnails. The other four go to a "400 Bad Request" page. However, in the "Emailed photos" album, all of the photos display properly.

Per the list at [groupname].groups.io/g/main/attachments, the total size is 1.7MB.

Any ideas?

Pete

Re: A way to pre-authorize subscription requests? #addmembers

#34848

On Fri, Nov  6, 2020 at 10:28 AM, Shal Farley wrote:


I doubt that spamtrap addresses ever come about that way.

The services that create them are specifically trying to avoid using any
address that has ever had legit use.
I'm afraid that you are too optimistic.

Re: Notice when a member leaves a group

#34847

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 07:36 PM, M Parker wrote:

I have been tidying up the membership list for my group and I have noticed that if a member "leaves" a group thereby generating a "Left" entry in the Past Members list an email is sent to the list owner notifying them. But if a member leaves by deleting their account, generating a "Deleted Account" entry, no email is sent.

I didn't know that deleting your account would leave an entry in Past members or the activity log. So I learned something today.

Is this a deliberate omission or am I missing the subtlety between "left" and "deleted account"?

Leaving a group is not the same as leaving groups.io...such a person could have subscriptions in other groups. In contrast, I think it's safe to say that if someone goes to the trouble of deleting their account entirely they don't want to be bothered with any more messages from this source.

Regards,
Bruce
?
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Notice when a member leaves a group

#34846

I have been tidying up the membership list for my group and I have noticed that if a member "leaves" a group thereby generating a "Left" entry in the Past Members list an email is sent to the list owner notifying them. But if a member leaves by deleting their account, generating a "Deleted Account" entry, no email is sent. Is this a deliberate omission or am I missing the subtlety between "left" and "deleted account"?

Margaret
Leeds, UK

Re: A way to pre-authorize subscription requests? #addmembers

#34845

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 01:35 AM, Curt Gowan wrote:

Is there a way to upload a list of email addresses to pre-authorize approval of subscription requests?

Going back to your original question.
You said you are interested in moving to Premium.
If you do so, as Shal mentioned, you can Direct Add. It is so valuable when you have a long list, many people pay just for a month of premium so they can do it this way, instead of inviting people.

See this help page:
/helpcenter/gettingstarted/1/step-10-invite-or-add-members-to

And
/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-members/premium-and-enterprise-member-management-options?single=true

Frances

?
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Re: A way to pre-authorize subscription requests? #addmembers

#34844

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 09:24 AM, Curt Gowan wrote:

The problem we are having is that most Gmail users who apply to a Yahoo group by sending an email are not seeing the ?"Please confirm your request" automatic replies from Yahoo Groups. Gmail marks them all as spam -- and the spam folder in Gmail is hidden.
?

Will be Beta testing a similar join-by-email process for Groups.io with a sample of members.?

?

Our members are very reluctant to set up an additional account anywhere -- and we don't need the browser-based features of Groups.io (chat, calendar, database, photos, files, wiki, donations) anyhow.?

?

All we want for Christmas is an email-based, moderated discussion system with reliable email delivery

From the Groups.io Help for members:

Joining a group by email

If you have been given the subscription email address for the group, or you happen to know the group’s name, you can send an empty email message to the subscription address to join the group (or request membership, if the group is restricted). The format of the subscription email address is:

?

[email protected]

?

(Substitute the actual group name for groupname.)

?

! Important: After you send a message to a group’s subscription email address, you will receive a confirmation request message from Groups.io. You must respond to that confirmation request to complete your subscription and join the group.

?

Tip: For other email addresses you can use for actions related to your group membership, see Standard group email addresses.

?
And in the Owner's Help:
/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/managing-members/handling-members-marked-as-not-confirmed?single=true

Frances
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Re: Pls put a search facility on the help pages.

#34843

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 09:17 AM, Veronica Jones wrote:

Pls put a search facility on the help pages.?

Takes ages to plough through all the instructions and read the faqs when a quick search wd solve problem ?

?I agree.

In the meantime, I use the other ways to read it and then my browser's search.

View the manual as a single page. - searchable with browser; handy because it gives a specific URL for posting here or on my own groups.

View a PDF version of the manual. - readable and searchable with browser.

Frances

?

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Re: Pls put a search facility on the help pages.

#34842

On Fri, Nov 6, 2020 at 08:17 AM, Veronica Jones wrote:

Pls put a search facility on the help pages.

I'm not sure what Help pages you're referring to.? On Wiki pages, there's a Search box at the top that will search the entire wiki.? For any other page, you can use the built-in search function of your browser, .

BTW, this is a user-to-user group.? If you want to make suggestions for site changes, you need to make them on the where management will see them.

Duane
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Re: A way to pre-authorize subscription requests? #addmembers

#34841

Thanks for your very helpful reply, as always, Shal. ?Sorry I wasn't clear. The problem we are having is that most Gmail users who apply to a Yahoo group by sending an email are not seeing the ?"Please confirm your request" automatic replies from Yahoo Groups. Gmail marks them all as spam -- and the spam folder in Gmail is hidden.

?

Will be Beta testing a similar join-by-email process for Groups.io with a sample of members.?

?

Our members are very reluctant to set up an additional account anywhere -- and we don't need the browser-based features of Groups.io (chat, calendar, database, photos, files, wiki, donations) anyhow.?

?

All we want for Christmas is an email-based, moderated discussion system with reliable email delivery. ?

?

--cg

---

?

<snip>

?

??> For example, Gmail, marks confirmation emails from Yahoo Groups as
?> spam -- and the spam folder is hidden.

I've noticed that specifically for MODERATE notices in the last few
months. Never happened to me much before, so I've been marking them Not
Spam when received. I did find a way to promote my Spam folder to the
main list (above the More divide), but what I should really do is set a
Filter for them. But there's so little traffic in those groups that it
isn't really a big deal.

?> My bet is that, as Groups.io grows in membership and volume, Gmail
?> will do the same with Groups.io's confirmation emails.

That's possible, but I'd hope unlikely.

That is, I'd hope that Groups.io mods wouldn't be flagging confirmations
as spam. If Gmail sees members read and delete them normally, or reply,
or click links through them, then those confirmations should gain a
positive reputation in Gmail rather than a negative one.

I've been imagining that some number of Yahoo Group mods/owners may be
marking the notices from Yahoo Groups as spam out of frustration: the
subscription control to turn them on or off at the source is no longer
available. One cannot even demote a mod or owner to stop notices that way.

Shal
"Just try to relax, it will all be over soon."
? -- Verizon, and every villain of fact or fiction

--
[irrelevant signature information removed]

Pls put a search facility on the help pages.

#34840

Pls put a search facility on the help pages.?

Takes ages to plough through all the instructions and read the faqs when a quick search wd solve problem ?

thanks
Von?

Re: A way to pre-authorize subscription requests? #addmembers

#34839

Curt,

Not trying to game the system.I didn't intend to imply that looking for a way to pre-authorize a membership request was "gaming" in the pejorative sense, merely that I think it is unfortunate that there might exist this reason to avoid using Invite or Direct Add.

Given the care our team has taken in vetting applications over the 20
years, we would only have a spamtrap if a legit account has been taken
over.I doubt that spamtrap addresses ever come about that way.

The services that create them are specifically trying to avoid using any address that has ever had legit use. They want to be reasonably certain that anyone sending to that address must have harvested the address from their website. Or bought a list from someone who did.

And that's about the only way I can think of for one to appear in a Yahoo Group's list: some overly enthusiatic group owner attempted to grow his/her group by acquiring lists of addresses. Basically, acting like a spammer. Sounds like that would not apply to yours.

Agree on people marking invitations as spam. ... there will be
people who do this.And a reasonable RBL operator should know this too. Not about invitations specifically, but that user errors or misjudgemnts happen. An RBL operator shouldn't be too trigger-happy with end user spam reports, even if they see a burst of them flagging messages from a given IP address.

For example, Gmail, marks confirmation emails from Yahoo Groups as
spam -- and the spam folder is hidden.I've noticed that specifically for MODERATE notices in the last few months. Never happened to me much before, so I've been marking them Not Spam when received. I did find a way to promote my Spam folder to the main list (above the More divide), but what I should really do is set a Filter for them. But there's so little traffic in those groups that it isn't really a big deal.

My bet is that, as Groups.io grows in membership and volume, Gmail
will do the same with Groups.io's confirmation emails.That's possible, but I'd hope unlikely.

That is, I'd hope that Groups.io mods wouldn't be flagging confirmations as spam. If Gmail sees members read and delete them normally, or reply, or click links through them, then those confirmations should gain a positive reputation in Gmail rather than a negative one.

I've been imagining that some number of Yahoo Group mods/owners may be marking the notices from Yahoo Groups as spam out of frustration: the subscription control to turn them on or off at the source is no longer available. One cannot even demote a mod or owner to stop notices that way.

Shal
"Just try to relax, it will all be over soon."
 -- Verizon, and every villain of fact or fiction


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Re: Still don't understand how to STOP posts from showing up on Google!! Help.

#34838

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 10:04 PM, Janie wrote:

did a search and found this recommendation from 2019: "It sounds like you don't have the proper privacy setting chosen.? Go to Admin > Settings and scroll down to the Privacy section.? In the Visibility box, you want the last part of the choice to say ", private messages".? Before you change it, be aware that this is a one-way change.? You can never make the archives public again."

But all I see is #3 and #4 below with private messages at the end. Is #4 the best one??

1) Group listed in directory, publicly viewable messages

2) Group not listed in directory, publicly viewable messages

3) Group listed in directory, private messages

4) Group not listed in directory, private messages.?

Both 3 and 4 work to keep your group messages private from non-members and Google.

Whether you want to be listed in the directory depends on whether your group is interested in getting new members from the general public or not.

For example, a travel group or gaming group might list the group in the directory. For a group designed for a committee, your family or a PTA, it wouldn't be useful for it to be to be listed in the directory.

Here's a link to the directory -?/search?p=SubsCount,,,20,2,0,0

Frances

?
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Still don't understand how to STOP posts from showing up on Google!! Help.

#34837

I did a search and found this recommendation from 2019: "It sounds like you don't have the proper privacy setting chosen.? Go to Admin > Settings and scroll down to the Privacy section.? In the Visibility box, you want the last part of the choice to say ", private messages".? Before you change it, be aware that this is a one-way change.? You can never make the archives public again."

But all I see is #3 and #4 below with private messages at the end. Is #4 the best one??

1) Group listed in directory, publicly viewable messages

2) Group not listed in directory, publicly viewable messages

3) Group listed in directory, private messages

4) Group not listed in directory, private messages.?

Re: Posting an Owner message to the group

#34836

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 07:22 PM, Christos G. Psarras wrote:

absolute total number of groups (~32K) as the value for calculating how many result pages with link info to display, but the "fetch data" code returns less because it checks for group visibility; there are 9980 visible groups

Based on some tests I just did, that's incorrect.? There were 81,592 groups as of this morning (here), with 31,987 of them visible.? It is a bug, but has to do with the number of results going into 5 digits (over 9999).? I thought I had reported this #bug on beta, but can't find it now.

Duane
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Re: People are asking me to remove them from my group....but they are not members!

#34835

开云体育

That's a spam technique that started being heavily used just a couple of days ago.

If you open up the complaint email to display the hidden message routing history, you will see a reference to the email address of your group as the address that email systems are supposed to use to complain about that email.

Google explains how to display the hidden message routing history -- whether you are using Gmail, Yahoo Mail, Apple Mail, or Outlook, etc.

Ignore those messages. (Don't click on any links in those messages -- may send you to a poisoned website that will attack your system.)

--cg

Re: People are asking me to remove them from my group....but they are not members!

#34834

FWIW, I just had the same issue in my group. I have requested a copy of the offending message. This was from an AOL email user.

Has anyone sent this issue to Mark or posted it to the Beta group?

Scott

Re: A way to pre-authorize subscription requests? #addmembers

#34833

Thanks, Shal, for the clear and helpful reply!

Not trying to game the system. Just wanted to be sure that I had not missed such a feature when going through the excellent Owners Manual. (I was concerned because -- when I searched on subgroups -- some of the key info turned out to be located in wiki entries rather than in the Owners Manual.)

I got the pre-authorization idea because, at one point the now-living-dead LinkedIn Groups system had pre-authorization, which worked quite nicely.

We will switch to the Premium level. First, in fairness to Mark.?

And we want subgroups.?(We have a website, so we don't need calendar, database, photos, files, or wiki. Our members are not into chat. Unlike many other groups, we've found that an archive of old posts is not very useful for us due to the continually-changing info. Polls would be useful. We have Eventbrite for donations, which works very well.)?

In short, we need an email-based, moderated discussion system with reliable email delivery.

Agree about spamtraps. Given the care our team has taken in vetting applications over the 20 years, we would only have a spamtrap if a legit account has been taken over.

Agree on people marking invitations as spam. Given the varying level of email literacy -- and that many are set to "no email" -- there will be people who do this.?

Deliverability is the Achilles heel for any email-based system.?

For example,?Gmail, marks confirmation emails from Yahoo Groups as spam -- and the spam folder is hidden. Our directions say: "If you don't see the confirmation emails within an hour, check your Spam or Trash folder. (In Gmail, click "More" in the left-hand menu to find the hidden Spam folder.)"

My bet is that, as Groups.io grows in membership and volume, Gmail will do the same with Groups.io's confirmation emails.

Thanks again,
--cg

Re: A way to pre-authorize subscription requests? #addmembers

#34832

Curt,

I know we could send invitations via Premium Groups.io ...Invite you can use in a Basic group. But to use Direct Add you need to pay for at least one month of Premium.

... however, that would increase the chance that email providers (and
public and private blackhole lists) block the Groups.io IP address ...I can only think of three ways this can happen.

One would be if one or more of those addresses turn out to be spamtraps. How one of those could get onto a Y!G's member list is a mystery to me.

Another would be if a some of the recipients of the Invite (or Direct Add notice) mark that message as spam.

The third is that the receiving service notices many messages sent to invalid addresses from the same IP address, and flags the IP address. I think this is the one Mark is citing in the topic on beta:

He did not react to my comments, so I'm not sure to what extent he might agree or disagree with me.

Is there a way to upload a list of email addresses to pre-authorize
approval of subscription requests?No.

My unease with this topic is that Invite is the means designed into Groups.io to do exactly what you're trying to do. That you and others may feel compelled to work around it strikes me as a major failing.

Were it me, I would be inclined to use the facilities as intended (Invite or Direct Add) and let Groups.io figure out how to deal with consequences, if any. That's kind of rude to members of email services that use RBLs, but my opinion is that the fault is with those services: they should not apply RBL-like rules against a known legitimate email source such as Groups.io.

I'm a little excitable on this subject because I believe that many years ago (maybe 15 years) Verizon was doing something of the sort against Yahoo Groups, causing me to miss a fraction of group messages. I quit Verizon as my ISP in part for that reason - and the fact that I could never get a straight answer out of their tech support on the subject. My attitude then (and now) is that I signed up for these messages, and if you (my ISP) can't or won't deliver them to me, then you are failing to deliver the service I'm paying for.

Shal

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A way to pre-authorize subscription requests? #addmembers

#34831

We have some 40,000 theoretical members of our various Yahoo groups, accumulated over 20 years -- but many of the addresses are very old and no longer valid.
I know we could send invitations via Premium Groups.io -- however, that would increase the chance that email providers (and public and private blackhole lists) block the Groups.io IP address -- as I understand Spamhaus did three times last week.
Ideally, we'd like to send posts to each group via Yahoo with instructions on how to join the corresponding new Groups.io group. That way, Yahoo would take the hit rather than Groups.io *smile*
Is there a way to upload a list of email addresses to pre-authorize approval of subscription requests?
I went through the Help files and didn't see a way.
That would be useful for many group owners and would reduce the impact on Groups.io's spam reputation.?
Thanks, --cg

Re: Is there a way for subgroup members to message other subgroups? #subgroups

#34830

Deb,

>>> you can check the "Allow Parent Members to Post" box.

Shal's suggestion should do what you want, because it allows any parent group member to send messages to any subgroup (that now has that setting ON), so a member of one committee subgroup can now send a message to any other subgroup with that option ON.? However, because of that, the small potential side-effect of this setting is that, provided that they know the posting email address, anyone in the parent group can now post to the subgroup(s) (not just the committee/subgroup members).? So even if the subgroups may have private archives, if they are listed in the parent group, it's easy for anyone to find out the posting address.? But even if the subgroups are not "publicly" listed in the parent group, one can still send a message to them with this setting on.? So if you want to avoid the potential "anyone" part, reset the posting permissions on the subgroups to Moderated, and reset the posting permissions of the subgroup/committee members to Override:Can Post, for the subgroups you turn this setting on.? This will keep the uninterrupted flow of messages within the group and group members, but anyone else who posts will land in the Moderation queue.? This way you can catch and prevent possible cross-contaminated postings or non-subgroup members which shouldn't be posting in a particular subgroup.

Think of it this way:? Beforehand, you had 5 rooms where committees met in closed-door meetings.? In order for a member from one committee/room to present somethng to another one, they would have to physically leave one room and go to another, open the door, go in, close the door, do their biz.? Now, they don't, all they have to do is slide the presentation material under the door without having to physically go in.? However anyone else in the office can do the same, so you now have someone that pre-checks whatever is slid under the door, to ensure it is related to the committee, before presenting it.

Cheers,
Christos