On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 12:47 PM, BarryS wrote:

After a minute or two of “Uploading (0%)” the system gives up and I’m informed ?that “This site can’t be reached. The connection was reset”.

Groups.io is not designed for cloud storage; I've had very little success in uploading anything over ~100MB.?You could try contacting support, but he seems to be sensitive about this kind of server load...you might have better luck just uploading to Google Drive (or something like that) and providing a link instead.

Converting the MOV to FLV should reduce its footprint.

Good luck,
Bruce?
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Second attempt, all went fine. Very odd, has not happened before.

I just sent two different emails to all my groups within 5 minutes of each other. the first one went fine, the second one bounced from Groups.io.
A copy of the bounce below.
I will try again and see what happens.

Barry.

Arrival-Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2019 05:14:35 +0000
Reporting-MTA: dns; xtra.co.nz

Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Last-Attempt-Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2019 05:14:35 +0000
Remote-MTA: dns; lb02.groups.io
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 510 5.1.1 Your email address, barry.liddle@..., is not subscribed to that group. To subscribe, send an email to [email protected], or visit /g/Whakataneequestrian/join
Final-Recipient: rfc822; [email protected]

Ellen,

She has this box checked in all 4 groups, but only gets her own shares
from 2 of these groups.

Does she use a different email service in some groups versus others?

In the two groups where she does not get her own messages back has she checked her Spam/Junk folder or other places where the messages may have been delivered?

In the two groups where she does not get her own messages back does her Email Delivery History show bounces for her own messages? She can check that through her Subscription page in those groups, or if you moderate those groups you can check in her subscription page from the Members list.

I ask the above because it has been observed that certain email services are "touchy" about messages that claim to be from you arriving at your own inbox. Sometimes they divert such messages to spam, sometimes they outright reject (bounce) them.

If the service is rejecting the messages, it would be interesting if you or she could tell us what the Response (Reason) code and text is. It is possible that her service should be reported to [email protected] so that Mark can apply a work-around for users of that service.

Shal


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Barry,

I also had the same aspiring subscriber (the same one for whom the
invite failed due to messaging limit) send a request to subscribe
using the format <[email protected]>. But, after 30
minutes or so, I (as the group owner) didn't receive that request
either.

This part of your topic seems to have been lost.

There are some things you need to know.

The +subscribe message isn't forwarded to anyone. It is handled by automation.

The automation sends back a confirmation request.

The aspiring subscriber must receive and respond to that confirmation request, else no further action is taken. This is to guard against spambots and other mechanisms which may send a fraudulent +subscribe command with a spoofed From address.

From what you said this may be where the process failed - the person either didn't receive the request, or received it after a long delay (that same "try again later" error code from the screen shot in your first post), or the person didn't see it or recognize that they needed to take that next step.

When the person responds to the confirmation request, and if the group has restricted membership, the automation sends back the group's Pending notification, adds the person to the group's Pending Members list, and triggers notices to the group mods' and owners about the pending member (those who've checked the appropriate notification box in their subscription).

If the group does not have restricted membership the automation sends back the group's Welcome message, adds the person to the group's Members list, and triggers notifications to the owners and mods of a new member.

Shal


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Hi all,

This week's change log:



Feel free to reply to this topic if you'd like to comment on the
changes. Or better yet, if you expect a lot of discussion start a new
topic (or rejoin an existing one) about a specific change.

BUGFIX: When editing a repeating event, if no date/time changes are
made, we no longer lose any RSVPs to existing events.
BUGFIX: The GMT offset in the #cal-invite message would be off if the
new event is on a date that has a different daylight savings than
today's date.
CHANGE: A user's overall calendar now defaults to list view on mobile.
It also respects a user's time format.

I did warn Mark that implementing a calendar would be one of those "how hard can it be?" things that turns into a tar-baby. So here we are three and a half years later and the calendar accounts for half of this week's changes.



Comments about these are welcome:

INTERNAL: Upgraded Stripe API library to the latest version as part of
the work to support group payments.
INTERNAL: Changed admin system to not rely on the main database for
authentication.
CHANGED: Updated the credit card forms with newer code from Stripe.

Please call out any you find significant.

Shal


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Alexander,

... I think the current default behavior (send to Group) leads to
*very* unintuitive behavior in email clients (at least in GMail).

Everyone has their own idea of what's intuitive. Worse, each email interface seems to have its own idea of what the UI for replies ought to be.

Groups.io is set up the way it is because it has been a long-standing tradition for email lists to use the Reply-To header field to cause the default Reply action (of most interfaces) to reply to the List, when that is the style of the list (a discussion list).

For me (and others) that is the most natural/intuitive thing. If I'm conversing with an individual Reply goes to that individual, if I'm participating in a list Reply goes to that list. Gmail lets me know which is which by showing "via groups.io" when the sender is actually a list. That text doesn't always show in the list view, but it does in the preview or if you open the message in a new window.

There is an alternative.

Groups.io could use the List-Post header field instead of Reply-To. That would generally have the effect of causing the default Reply behavior to be reply to the individual. But it also means that to reply to the list - which is what I almost always actually want to do - requires using an alternate function. Which means that many posts I intended for the list will go to the individual instead, causing subsequent confusion.

No thank you.

Reply -> Sender, Reply all -> whole group is what I think 99% of
people would expect, and the default setting breaks that.

So set your group's Reply To setting to Sender.

Then you get that behavior. Except many email interfaces will show Reply List rather than (or in addition to) Reply All. Which is arguably even more precise.

Shal


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Rob,

I thought the whole idea was that those subgroups could be managed
semi-independently.

"Semi-independently". The important connection is that one must be a member of the primary group in order to be a member of any of its subgroups.

Some of the invite/add mechanisms have been enhanced to handle the primary group subscription simultaneously when inviting/adding to a subgroup. But it is possible that the Promote mechanisms haven't been given the same attention.

Shal



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Mona,

... but not when I send it from my email account (thunderbird) using
the same email addresses - it does not show at all in the activity nor
in the messages.

Having nothing show in the group's Activity log strongly implies that you sent the message To the wrong address.

Try clicking on or copy/pasting the Post: address from the bottom of your group's home page. The failed attempts could have had a rather subtle typo.

Also have a look in your email folders (in Thunderbird and/or at your service's email web site) for delivery failure notices. If you find any that correspond with your attempts those should contain an error code and text that may be helpful.

Shal


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Michael,

Yes I did that and in every case it said SENT.

"Sent" is conclusive.

It means that Groups.io's outbound server connected to the inbound server of the invitee's email service, delivered the invitation, and the inbound server reported "success" for the transaction.

At that point the invitee's email service has possession of the invitation - whether the invitee can him/herself find it there is completely out of Groups.io's (and your) control.

I sent the invites again and this time both of them did reply and join
the group.

Well that's good.

I am about to issue 20 new invites and will> see if there seems to be
a problem....that should be a meaningful sample.

If any of those end up with "Sent" status, but the invitee claims not to find it, about the best you can do is advise him/her on what to look for, and, if you are familiar with the service he/she is using, where to look for it.

It is possible that an invitee using a desktop or mobile app to read email may have to visit his/her service's web site to find the place where such messages are stored when they aren't put in his/her Inbox.

Shal


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Hi,

Thank you for your help. I'm following your advice indeed

I'm posting from the right address - as triple checked on the group member page
I'm posting to the right address - as triple checked on the group member page
There are no pending messages

I'm receiving an email I sent from the group topics webpage directly - it shows in messages and activities - but not when I send it from my email account (thunderbird) using the same email addresses - it does not show at all in the activity nor in the messages.

Mona

Yes I did that and in every case it said SENT.? ?The invitees both claim they did not receive them and that they checked junk folders, etc....but who knows.? I sent the invites again and this time both of them did reply and join the group.? ?I am about to issue 20 new invites and will see if there seems to be a problem....that should be a meaningful sample.

Thanks very much for the information in this thread. I'd just like to put my feedback or there that I think the current default behavior (send to Group) leads to *very* unintuitive behavior in email clients (at least in GMail). When you get a post, the client displays it *just* using the person's name as the "from", and so just replying to that email (as opposed to replying all) one would expect it would go just to the sender, not to the whole group.

Reply -> Sender, Reply all -> whole group is what I think 99% of people would expect, and the default setting breaks that.

Is it possible to have a subscribe form for subgroups?? ?That "subscribe to our group" you can embed on a website from the "promote" page on the main group.? I just assumed that same page would be on the subgroups and was surprised that it wasn't.? ?I thought the whole idea was that those subgroups could be managed semi-independently.? Can that code be tweaked for a subgroup? - or is there any other workaround?? I didn't realize that almost nothing can be embedded in a website like you can with Google groups.? ?Can anyone point me in the right direction?

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"Also, the general term "an error message" doesn't give much clue to anyone who might bed able to help you."

Also, Bob, not sure if your advice around greater specificity with "an error message" is in response to my OP but think so? Of course agree though in that post, I also included a screen shot with the specifics. ?Thanks again, to you and everyone here, for the advice. ?We were able to solve it albeit still with some slowness using different email providers.

Totally makes sense and thanks for the suggestion on the googleapps diagnostic. ?Worth noting that the receiving-network theory, with my own admittedly limited sample, might not be dispositive here. RCN is a largely national company now but, that aside, we had delays getting gmail addresses invites and confirmed as well.

Groups.io is pretty fast emitting email.? It's the path and final receiving network that are the issue.
There are applications that you can help you find where the delay(s) actually occur.
Also, the general term "an error message" doesn't give much clue to anyone who might bed able to help you.

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On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 07:53 PM, Barry Winer wrote:

I'm not sure what to think but, for whatever reason, there's some slowness with invites and email addresses confirmed as valid and responsive outside the groups.io platform?

I would be very surprised if groups.io failed to send the invitation immediately. Paste the message header of the delayed invitation into the analyzer found at?. This will tell you where it got held up.

I believe that some mail servers with limited capacity delay delivery of group messages for no other reason than they originate from the .io top-level domain.

Regards,
Bruce?
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