On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 05:41 AM, Chris Jones wrote:

Many changes brought about because of requests on beta have little or no impact on those who did not request them and perhaps don't need them; this change is different in that it affects everybody, and may in fact have disadvanted more subscribers than it benefitted.

I agree that default behaviors such as this should be changed with extreme caution.?The silent majority tend to be happy with things the way they are...and recently it seems that their interests have been too often subverted by a handful of people who are willing to make a lot of noise.?

Not everybody maintains a presence in the beta group, and it's a very unpleasant experience to wake up one morning and find that something that once worked fine (or that you put a lot of energy into to make work fine) is now broken.

Regards,
Bruce
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On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 01:45 PM, Denny G. wrote:

Nothing has really changed.

Yes it has; the default sort.

The user-selectable sort order was implemented and works perfectly in that you can now set the order you prefer on a given viewing, and the software remembers that sort order for the next viewing.

Yes it works, but from a different starting point.

I really don't understand your issue as nothing has changed except that the sort order now does not require an individual to reset it each visit.

The "big" issue is that in providing a solution for a perhaps small group of not computer - savvy subscribers in may well have created a problem for a much larger group of not computer - savvy subscribers.

Why not just set the sort how YOU like to have it and forget it? Unless, of course, you want to sort differently the next time you visit PHOTOS.

I have spent a lot of time trying to organise both Photo Album Titles, and the sequence of Photos within albums into some sort of sensible sequence. I now have to consider sending out instructions for >2500 subscribers about how to restore that order.

This is an excellent enhancement IMHO, regardless of how many people requested it.

Having different / additional "sort" options is clearly an enhancement; altering the default is not. And your comment regardless of how many people requested it can easily lead to the problems that can arise from the "tyranny of the minority".

I have no objections to additional options, but changing the default takes away the option of not having to do anything. If a group - level option were to be provided then my objections would cease to exist after no more than perhaps half a dozen clicks.

Chris

开云体育

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 08:45 AM, Denny G. wrote:

Nothing has really changed. The user-selectable sort order was implemented and works perfectly in that you can now set the order you prefer on a given viewing, and the software remembers that sort order for the next viewing.

I think Chris's concern, as well as mine, is that the default sort is now newest first instead of by title.? Changing the default messed up a lot of work that some folks had done to get things in the order they wanted, so members of all those groups will need to switch back.? Now that the 'remember' is enabled, I think the default should be changed back.? Either way, there will be some members that aren't comfortable changing to another setting, so there will be complaints.

Duane
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Chris ... Nothing has really changed. The user-selectable sort order was implemented and works perfectly in that you can now set the order you prefer on a given viewing, and the software remembers that sort order for the next viewing. I really don't understand your issue as nothing has changed except that the sort order now does not require an individual to reset it each visit. Why not just set the sort how YOU like to have it and forget it? Unless, of course, you want to sort differently the next time you visit PHOTOS. This is an excellent enhancement IMHO, regardless of how many people requested it.
Dennis

My experience has been, based in part on information I have read about on websites dedicated to fighting malware, phishing, scams, etc, that contacts from legitimate sources -- like the real Oath (or Verizon, etc) -- usually frame outreach in terms of giving you an opportunity to enhance your on line experience, that if you upgrade or whatever, something good will happen. Non-legitimate sources usually do the reverse, try and intimidate people by implying that if you don't act now something bad will happen. (Have your account disabled or deleted). The legitimate sources are usually aware that people may be suspicious and don't like to 'click on the link,' and, if they include one (because they sometimes do), often offer you the alternative of visiting their website with a keyword you can enter in their site's search box to pull up the relevant information.

The emails I got from Oath that seemed malicious contained the warning and 30 day deadline in the subject line, I deleted them without opening them. A few times when I've been really uncertain about an email -- might be legit, might not be -- rather than open it on my own personal computer I went to a FedEx Office location and opened it on their computer. Or tried to. Those kinds of computers usually have extremely sophisticated security programs. I recall an email I got unexpectedly from Dropbox, with a file attached, sent by someone who had sent me legitimate files from Dropbox in the past. But this one was to a different email address. Why would he have done that? (Yes it was an AOL account.) I emailed him but when he didn't answer I went to FedEx. The computer at FedEx wouldn't let me open the file. It said the file contained suspicious code and appeared to contain a virus. The security program suggested I delete it and I did.

tommy0421

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 07:34 AM, Marcia Hudspeth wrote:

Is there a way to put Photo Album's in alpha order?

I grieves me to say it but IHMO the change to the default sort order implemented a couple of days ago was a mistake. I accept that it was requested by a (fairly small) number of beta members, commonly on the basis that their members were not necessarily computer - savvy and as a result had difficulties making their photos section work for them. However, the change overlooked the fact that it has forced other groups - whose members might be equally non - computer savvy - to handle a completely different sort order which very possibly doesn't work for them. OK; individual members can set a suitable sort order for themselves, but this brings people up against the "computer savvy" issue immediately.

Many changes brought about because of requests on beta have little or no impact on those who did not request them and perhaps don't need them; this change is different in that it affects everybody, and may in fact have disadvanted more subscribers than it benefitted.

I know this post risks having the sky brought down on my head but I suspect that I will not be the only owner / moderator who feels that this change was rushed through without enough consideration about its unintended consequences. Certainly for the group I moderate It has mangled the album sort order, although for reasons I won't risk boring you with this shouldn't be too much of a problem for us; suffice to say we have a separate index (of links) and that still functions. However, the mangling of the sort order within albums? - albeit correctable at an individual level - has really wound me up.

One or two beta members have requested that the group - level default sort order should be owner settable, but I have no idea whether that will be implemented or not. If it is then there will be no longer - term problem. If it isn't? Well I for one will be very disappointed.

Chris

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 02:34 AM, Marcia Hudspeth wrote:

Is there a way to put Photo Album's in alpha order?

Yes.? On the Photos page, select "Sort By Title ^" from the drop down at the upper right.? Your choice now becomes the default for all of your groups.? This feature/option to remember your sort order should be available for photos within an album in a few days.

Duane
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On 24/03/2019 15:30, Shal Farley wrote:

Doug,
I don't recognize you from Y!GMF, if you'd like some advice in trying to get your new address connected to your group contact us over there.

Hi Shal

and Thanks for your email.

I only signed up for Groups Managers Forum today, my thanks for the help and further offers of help.

> There seems to be nothing I can do except pay them money (which I
> won't do) to talk to a real live person, and who may be unable to help
> anyway..
Be cautious with anyone asking for money. There are a lot of scam outfits out there pretending to be Yahoo Customer Care.

This is actually on the yahoo site, so should be quite OK. Nevertheless, I'm not going to get caught in there at what I see is a dead end.

On the other hand there is a relatively new Yahoo! Account Pro service, which is paid, but given that your primary concern is a access to a Yahoo Group they probably won't know how to do that.

What I see is not good. I think it is going to be a move to Groups.io. After my experiences through the years, this is the way for me to go.

If you can still sign in to your Yahoo Account, the one that owns the Yahoo Group, then you can do what you need without email access.

No, I simply cannot sign in. However, I *can* received postings by members of this group, and reply to them by altering the headers, but I simply cannot enter the group itself to make any changes.

> My group has one co-moderator who could use his email address. Would
> this work?
As long as he can invite someone (the transfer address) to join the group, and then promote that new member to moderator status, then yes. He could do the Yahoo tasks for your group.

He may be able to sign me in as a new member, if I use my brother's name or somesuch illegal stuff, but I doubt that he could sign me in and then promote me to owner, not being one himself. He has been co-moderator for 2 or 3 years, but I can't remember what privileges I gave him, probably not too high to avoid anyone trying to take over the group, although he is a fellow collector, well-known in his circles, (I'm in New Zealand, he's in US) I trust him, and I doubt any problems would arise. We are fellow collectors of old toy trains, especially two makes of Japanese.

I may get him to download all the many photographs which we have there, and later transfer them to the new site, after which we can simply abandon yahoo. The text messages are hardly worth saving.

It is the privilege to promote a member to moderator that you might not have given him as a moderator. Many owners are hesitant to give out that privilege as it is effectively all-powerful, second only to being an owner.

See paragrph above..

> He could become a co-owner of the new group.
That would allow him to do the Groups.io side of the transfer, which is probably the simplest way to handle it.
Shal

I think your last paragraph has it all sorted.. I agree..

So, my grateful thanks for the trouble you have taken here, and I will see what happens over the next couple of weeks. I'm now 80, and getting too old for this nonsense!

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Cheers.
--------
Doug Harris
Cambridge, New Zealand

Received from Shal Farley at 3/24/2019 01:49 AM UTC:

Mark missed this one (for some it's kind-of a big one):

* CHANGE: Only display photos in the Emailed Photos album that are
larger than 100x100 pixels.

Any chance this prevents seeing those annoying sig images, thus making it even harder to delete them?

I don't accept attachments or imbedded images so can't test in my groups.

Jim H

What is the feed page?

Don

NEW: The /feed page is now feature complete, including displaying

> chats, wikis, databases, new subgroups, and recent images sent as
> attachments.

That probably amounts to a "last call for comments" before it goes live.

Doug,

Yahoo would not accept my change of email, and blocked me from the
group which I own!

I don't recognize you from Y!GMF, if you'd like some advice in trying to get your new address connected to your group contact us over there.

There seems to be nothing I can do except pay them money (which I
won't do) to talk to a real live person, and who may be unable to help
anyway..

Be cautious with anyone asking for money. There are a lot of scam outfits out there pretending to be Yahoo Customer Care.

On the other hand there is a relatively new Yahoo! Account Pro service, which is paid, but given that your primary concern is a access to a Yahoo Group they probably won't know how to do that.

Can you please advise if IO can move this yahoo group to Groups.IO
using this blocked email address?

If you can still sign in to your Yahoo Account, the one that owns the Yahoo Group, then you can do what you need without email access. The key is being able to sign in using your original Yahoo account ID and password. Where the sign-in page says to enter your email address it means the yahoo.com address associated with your Yahoo account.

My group has one co-moderator who could use his email address. Would
this work?

As long as he can invite someone (the transfer address) to join the group, and then promote that new member to moderator status, then yes. He could do the Yahoo tasks for your group.

It is the privilege to promote a member to moderator that you might not have given him as a moderator. Many owners are hesitant to give out that privilege as it is effectively all-powerful, second only to being an owner.

He could become a co-owner of the new group.

That would allow him to do the Groups.io side of the transfer, which is probably the simplest way to handle it.

If you're leery about promoting him to owner you could take the steps on the Groups.io side and he could (in coordination with you) take the required steps on the Yahoo side.

Shal


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Hello.
I have owned a yahoo hobby group (toy and model trains) for 18 years. Last year I had to change my email address when my ISP stopped their local service.

Yahoo would not accept my change of email, and blocked me from the group which I own! There seems to be nothing I can do except pay them money (which I won't do) to talk to a real live person, and who may be unable to help anyway..

Can you please advise if IO can move this yahoo group to Groups.IO using this blocked email address?

My group has one co-moderator who could use his email address. Would this work? He could become a co-owner of the new group.

My Thanks.
Doug Harris
digbee222@...

Mark missed this one (for some it's kind-of a big one):

* CHANGE: Only display photos in the Emailed Photos album that are
larger than 100x100 pixels.


Shal


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Henning,

The zip file URL returned in the export data email message is not
usable, at least if received via gmail. I had to decode the raw
plain text version via the 'quoted-printable' translator.

Worked fine from Gmail's web UI for me.

One peculiarity, at least in Firefox with the settings I have, is that it produced a blank page. So one might think it didn't work unless one notices that the download indicator in the upper right corner went from black to blue (indicating a fresh download). From there I was able to open the zip file, which had the expected contents.


I wrote:

I used this feature about a week ago and didn't have a problem, but I
probably opened the message in Thunderbird, not Gmail's web UI. I'll
go take a look at it after work today, but any additional detail you
can provide may be helpful.

That didn't work, of course, as the link is only valid for 24 hours. So to test what you reported I made a new export request. But it did turn up a bizarre error page, which I'm reporting to support.

Shal


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Hi all,

This week's change log:



Feel free to reply to this topic if you'd like to comment on the
changes. Or better yet, if you expect a lot of discussion start a new
topic (or rejoin an existing one) about a specific change.

CHANGE: In the Photos section, changed the default sort for albums and
within albums to be most recent first.
NEW: Remember sort field/order for the Photos section (not yet viewing
a specific album).

Yay! I've long advocated that each list view retain its viewing options (including sort order) as you navigate the site.

NEW: The /feed page is now feature complete, including displaying
chats, wikis, databases, new subgroups, and recent images sent as
attachments.

That probably amounts to a "last call for comments" before it goes live.

CHANGE: When viewing banned members, the column name is now Banned.
When viewing normal members of a restricted group, the column name
is now Applied.

This is inclusive of the date Invited or Direct Added. "Applied" seems better than the old "Joined", since it is not the date a person was approved nor the date they accepted a invitation (which "Joined" implied).

There was discussion (still for Restricted groups) of changing it to actually be the date the member was Approved, Accepted an invite, or was Direct Added - on the principle that would be the date the person could actually interact with the group. But the change would require adding a new field to the underlying database, so it looks like Mark decided not to do that.

CHANGE: When adding/editing an event, check by default the 'Send
Invite To Group' option.

I'm puzzled about this one. I thought it already was (and that was the complaint).


Comments about these are welcome:

BUGFIX: If a subscription's display name was not set and the user's
display name wasn't set, we would set ALL of the user's
subscriptions to the name we pulled from the From line in an email.
This would overwrite a display name previously set by a moderator.
BUGFIX: Fixed obscure redirect bug because 'groups.io' is a suffix of
the new enterprise group dgroups.io.
INTERNAL: Parallelized the deletion of attachments from S3 when we
delete a group, because it was taking too long.
CHANGE: When banning someone, we record the moment the person is
banned. Previously, if the person was a member, we kept the date the
person applied/joined and used that.

Please call out any you find significant.

Shal


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This is a copy of an email that I sent to all 1,000+ members of our group...copy any part of it:

I hate long emails sent to everyone when the email applies to only a few. This email does not apply to you UNLESS you use a Yahoo! email address to send and/or receive emails from the Amel Yacht Owners Group.?If you use a Yahoo! email address, please read the following.

Over half of the Amel Yacht Owners Group members use a Yahoo! email account. Many of these members were forced to add a Yahoo! email account because they wanted to register for our group when we were located at Yahoo!. That requirement no longer exists.

I am monitoring a small, but growing problem with Yahoo! email that you may not be aware of. It seems that Yahoo! is deleting "dormant accounts." Apparently, Yahoo considers an account dormant that has not been "signed in" for over a year. I am told that this has been a longstanding policy at Yahoo!, but only intermittently enforced. It appears that they have begun enforcing the policy. The fact that you send and receive Yahoo! email apparently isn't good enough for Yahoo! at this time. They appear to be considering your Yahoo! email account dormant, if you have not signed into the account in over a year. If an email account continues to bounce, Groups.io is forced remove the account from the Amel Yacht Owners Group email distribution.?They have removed over 100 members?from email distribution, and unfortunately, those people are not receiving this email. For more information on why and how this process works, go to?/static/help#bouncing? Don't panic, if you received this email, you have not been removed. But, if you haven't recently?"signed in" to your Yahoo! Email Account with your Yahoo! password and want to avoid problems, I suggest that you go to Yahoo! Mail ?and sign in with your password. Unfortunately, I cannot suggest anything else except possibly changing to another email provider. You can use any provider to receive group emails, but personally I would avoid Yahoo!, Hotmail, and Earthlink. Google is probably the best.

If you want to change your email delivery address in the Amel Yacht Owners Group:

1. Go to?
   Note:?If you don't have a password already, you will be prompted to create one from the main Groups.io page?
2. On the home page for Amel Yacht Owners Group, click on your name in the top right corner.
3. Click?Account.
4. On the login page that appears, enter your new email address in the Email field
5. Click the?Change Email?button.
6. Be sure to use your newly registered email address to send emails to the group

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Tommy,

Anyway, the emails warned me that my Oath accounts would be disabled
in thirty days unless I acted "now," starting by opening their email.
It sounded phishy so I deleted them on sight.

It may have been. I've heard of crooks copying a service's legit termination notice and replacing the links with links to their own exploit site. So I never encourage clicking in links on such messages.

Usually a legit site will give you a means to do whatever it is that needs to be done by logging into the site without using any link in the email message. That way you can be (reasonably) certain of getting to the legit site and not an impostor.

Shal


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Sounds like emails similar to ones I received from 'Oath.' I only received them in an old AOL account that I started over 15 years ago. I maintain it because, for some reason, several acquaintances refuse to use my Gmail account. They insist on emailing me to my old AOL account. They are both people I'm involved with professionally and I need to maintain contact with them. Anyway, the emails warned me that my Oath accounts would be disabled in thirty days unless I acted "now," starting by opening their email. It sounded phishy so I deleted them on sight. The thirty days ended weeks ago and nothing has happened.

tommy0421