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I am brand new at this and have just read the instructions on how to transfer your Yahoo group over to io groups.? My question is how do you get the Yahoo group ready for transferring as it says that one has to be ready before you start the transfer process.? Thank you.

Under the group, I go to Administer--Settings--Member Policies--Reply To, and I select "Sender" from the pull-down menu. I did this for all of my groups, but when anyone hits Reply, it puts the group address in the reply box instead of the sender's address.

The amount of time is quite variable.? Have a look at /g/GroupManagersForum/message/12641 to see how to verify the status.? You might also want to take a look at /g/GroupManagersForum/message/8697 to make sure you haven't done something out of order.

Duane
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I invited [email protected]?to join my Yahoo group 6 days ago, but my invitation still has not been accepted. How long does it usually take for [email protected]?to accept my invitation?

--Greg

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 10:52 AM, Norman Pierson wrote:

Once a month I face my members in a meeting room for an informal breakfast.
...
After each monthly meeting I sit down with some of these guys and log them back in on their phones.

Norman,

I commend you for the efforts you put into providing support for your group members.

Have you considered a more proactive approach? That is, don't wait for the inevitable 30 day timeout and the associated traumatic experience. Suggest that your users who are still experiencing difficulties get in the habit of logging out and back in again once every week or two.

--
Gerald

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 12:53 PM, Sam Hughes wrote:

don't want ANYONE to know there's a web version or web in? interface!

In that case, your first step should be to remove your group from the public search area for groups.? To do that, go to Admin > Settings, scroll down to Privacy, and set it to 'Group not listed in directory, private messages'? You also shouldn't include it in your signature, as you did on the beta group since the messages there are readable by the public.? Then only give out the +subscribe and other group email addresses.? It won't keep everyone from knowing about your group and its web presence, but will minimize it.? Still, members will always be able to get to the group online, if they know how.

Duane
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Hi again Bruce,
That link (https://beta.groups.io/g/main/topic/24936239#18277) brought up no posts with "footer" in the messages.

I joined though, and thanks Bruce.

We paid Duane, but just don't want ANYONE to know there's a web version or web in? interface!

Hi everyone,

For groups like GroupManagersForum where I am not a moderator or owner, don't need everything right NOW, and where not everything is of interest to me, I use the Subscription Advanced Preferences.

My settings are:

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On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 07:50 AM, Stephanie Guerlain wrote:

I set the options for all of my groups to Reply to Sender

Where did you set this?? Further information may allow us to find the source of the problem.

Duane
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On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 07:59 PM, Jim Higgins wrote:

Received from Duane at 10/30/2018 08:47 PM UTC:

Not quite. Your Display Name would have been missing from the upper right corner of the screen. It won't be there if you're not logged in. That would be a quick and easy way to quickly tell if you're logged in or not.

Exactly! And I figured that out after maybe 10 seconds. But others aren't as situationally aware. So forget about me and think about the weekly complaints of this same problem due to an expired cookie.

I realized this morning that there's an even more glaring difference, to me any way.? If you're not logged in, the left menu is much smaller.? On this group, it only shows 6 items instead of 14 or more.

I may just be lucky or have exceptional members.? On 2 of my groups , one with ~1200 members, the other with ~1700, not a single person has asked for assistance with logging in (nor on any of the others).? It might also be because I include information about it, including a link to the Wiki page here, with the Welcome message.

Duane
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Once a month I face my members in a meeting room for an informal breakfast.

Initially I had to help about a third of them to set up their accounts, even with this group being a transfer from Yahoo.?
These members hear how great the calendar feature is, how great the hashtag system, which is set up so they can find the messages relating to individual groups for hiking, book club meetings, movies, restaurant meetings, etc.? )We have about 35 activity groups for our group of 150 retired men).
They hear about this from members who, like you, are able to navigate the system and love it. They feel lessened by the fact they can't see what the other members see.

After each monthly meeting I sit down with some of these guys and log them back in on their phones. Some of these phones have built in restrictions against cookies.
I visit some at their homes, in order to get them access?to the website?again.

?A password-only page would be nice and easy, with no links to Google or Facebook logins so that some of my members who have logged in by email don't think they need to put in their Google or Facebook login where it doesn't belong.?

Received from Norman Pierson at 10/31/2018 11:53 AM UTC:

The benefits of using gio outweigh the problem. But I wish my paying group had what some members would like so that they could be part of the group, instead of just receivers of emails.

Having to renew cookies every 30 days is annoying... especially when no other place I'm a member of requires that...

But that said, it isn't a thing that should prevent your members from being a part of your group vs just receivers of emails. Having to log in to access group features isn't so onerous that refusing to log in is a logical choice. And, if nothing else, subscribers can be a part of the group by posting messages via email.

Jim H

Received from Shal Farley at 10/31/2018 08:19 AM UTC:

Jim,

But a bit of research shows that with cookies deleted, visiting a Gio group that requires subscribership to read DOES take you to a login screen, while visiting a group that doesn't require subscribership to read does NOT take you to a login screen.

Ah, so that's the missing factor.

Yep. I trusted what you were saying, but I also knew what I saw. So I brainstormed possible causes for not seeing what you said I should (a logon screen). That lead me to test several combinations involving visiting my three groups with a good cookie and with a deleted cookie... to find that the group setting involving making the archives public makes a difference in what one sees when the cookie is expired. And it makes the same difference for the group owner (me) as it does for a subscriber.

Now the confusion makes more sense to me. Kind of ironic, given that GMF has public archives - but most of the time I'm going on site it is to access the Pending list. Which I do either through a link in the notice or by clicking on a pinned tab in my browser (which is almost always open to GMF's Pending list).

Given the cause, I don't see a 100% cure for this problem.

I don't know if it is readily possible for the page you land on to determine that you were previously at a page while logged in, and then put up the kind of banner Bruce suggested. I wouldn't want it to be there for people who are just visiting (were not previously logged in).
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/12579

A banner for ALL non-logged-in visitors might be more acceptable if it said something more than "YOU ARE NOT LOGGED IN." Perhaps, "YOU ARE UNABLE TO ACCESS ALL FEATURES OF THIS GROUP BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT LOGGED IN" would serve to create awareness in a subscriber without creating confusion in a visitor who didn't expect full access because he knows he's not logged in as a subscriber (or at least knows after reading the banner). It won't help the subscriber who is treated as a visitor because he isn't logged in... and subsequently tries to log in with the wrong email address.

Bottom line? We can't eliminate ALL (as in 100.0000%) confusion, but I do think the confusion caused by expiring cookies can be reduced.

How about an option to "Remain permanently logged in?" Those choosing it would get a cookie that never expires. ("Never" probably being Jan 2039.)

Jim H

Received from Duane at 10/30/2018 08:47 PM UTC:

On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 03:40 PM, Jim Higgins wrote:

I clicked one of them, which happened to be to a group that allows non-members to read, but not post. It looked the same as it usually does

Not quite. Your Display Name would have been missing from the upper right corner of the screen. It won't be there if you're not logged in. That would be a quick and easy way to quickly tell if you're logged in or not.

Exactly! And I figured that out after maybe 10 seconds. But others aren't as situationally aware. So forget about me and think about the weekly complaints of this same problem due to an expired cookie. It's week after week after week after week.

Jim H

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 06:15 PM, Jim Higgins wrote:

That's a seriously insecure way of managing passwords UNLESS you have good physical security for your computer plus require a password to logon to that computer. Otherwise anyone who sits in front of your computer can log into your Gio account.

The underlining is mine.

What you say is entirely true, but not really all that relevant. A computer (of any description) that is used for accessing Groups.io is no less vulnerable just because it has no password stored by the browser. Anyone obtaining access to that computer (including by theft or theft by finding) can simply find Groups.io (there is almost bound to be a shortcut sitting there!) and request a log - in link to be sent to the legitimate user's email account.

Now if the computer in question (which might include an easily portable device) has an "active" cookie set the person who now has the device can access Groups.io without even having to request a log - in link to be sent.

Even 30 day expiring cookies are no more secure against the misuse of a computer than having log - in details stored by a browser. If the computer is in the wrong hands then those wrong hands have access to Groups.io, courtesy of the 30 cookie.

Any argument against a password being stored by a browser also applies to the use of log - in cookies, be they 30 day or "non - expiring". The insecurity exists in both cases to almost the same extent.

Chris

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 04:05 PM, Norman Pierson wrote:

Chris, not everyone is computer literate; I'm afraid you fail to grasp that. You and I are interacting on the website, which, I've explained, some of my members are unable to do because they can't work through the login system without having to remember every 30 days that they are not joining a new site with different credentials.

Actually you are mistaken; I do grasp the fact that some may not be computer literate. But overall there appear to be one or two paradoxes that I am struggling to resolve. (BTW I am uncomfortably within the age range that you mentioned in an earlier posting!)

Members must be sufficiently competent to switch on their chosen device (PC / laptop / tablet . smartphone) and find their email program, and then use the email program to send and read message traffic. In the case of anything other than a PC they must be sufficiently competent to keep the device battery charged.

For a person to be a member of any group (via any forum provider) they have to be able to click on a few correct links, or send the right email. OK; some may well be refugees from Yahoo (like so many Groups.io users!) but even if they are they still had to join a group there one way or another. It is therefore reasonable to assume that they were sufficiently competent to get through a joining - up process.

Then in an earlier posting in this thread (Oct 29 #12925) you stated ...but we require that all members log on to the web site, at least initially. OK; between you as Owner / Moderator and your members as individuals you manage to get that far.

At this point I start to struggle; to have got this far your members have already demonstrated a basic level of competence, but it all seems to go wrong when it comes to logging in again after the elapse of 30 days when the cookie expires. (It is worth noting that if the cookie expiring is a problem in that they are immediately denied access to the web - based version of a group then the list of basic skills clearly extends to being able to find the web - based version in the first place.)

Why is logging in again such a challenge? I really do not understand this, given the level of skill that the members must already have demonstrated.

Looking a bit further back in this thread your message of 28th Oct (#12905) stated My group is a paid group of old codgers who won't go to a website if it is difficult to obtain entry. In what way is it difficult? I would argue that it is a lot easier than some of the things they had to do to get into a group in the first place.

Your next sentence read They complain about "not being able to use the website", followed a few words later by I'd appreciate a way to have my membership get on the website easier.

This seems to present another paradox; if regaining acsess to the website really is so difficult, I would have expected your members to find using the web UI complex beyond description.

Can you help me here? How can your members find their way around the website, and benefit from it, if just logging in every 30 days so problematic? To me it is counterintuitive to be told that while logging in is a problem, navigating around and using the website isn't.

After some time pondering all this last evening I finished up going back to an old copy of The Games People Play by Eric Berne because I started to suspect that there was an element of game - playing going on; a combination of Ain't it awful and Why don't you... yes but.

But who, exactly, are the players?

Chris

Thank you both so much,
One day I'm going to take the Setting page and document what each field really means - of course I have to know what each field does first, hmmm
Bruce, the change worked beautifully.
Jim, you are over my head, but I passed your comments along.
Beth