Does anyone have an explanation of when a topic should be addressed
to all or just to the subgroup? I want people to be able to easily
decide who to send a message to and obviously, there are overlaps.

Thanks-
Nick Robinson

Pedja,

Does this work with members who do not have groups.io accounts?

Yes, the Default Sub Settings applies to all new subscribers (members).

All subscribers have accounts, even if they've never logged in. That may seem like a subtle point, but there is at least one Account preference which is configured for them automatically by email: their account profile Display Name.

And No, unlike some other subscription options, the member can't update their Max Attachement Size without logging in. But that's a pretty trivial effort with Groups.io.

Shal


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On 23.09.2018 09:17, Shal Farley wrote:

> Limiting incoming mail keeps resources for everyone, including members
> and groups.io.
The need to live within a group's storage allocation is a good reason to have a threshold size limit at the group level. And in that context it probably makes more sense for it to apply to the total of the message's attachments, rather than to each attachment individually.

Now there is just option to automatically delete old attachments to provide space for new other than if space is used stop accepting attachments at all. That might work for some daily based information.

I usually administer groups that need archive of messages and attachments to stay intact. That means archive grows up and I need way to prevent someone to fill it in with unnecessary large data.

> If we relay on outgoing limits, then that means that if user did not
> set limit for messages sent to him, he will suffer each time someone
> sends ridiculously big attachments.
True, but as I mentioned previously, some (or these days most) of the members might not "suffer" from large (or numerous) attachments, rather they may prefer to have them delivered rather than having to fetch them from the site.

Actually, if attachment is to large it should be delivered using some other, external, means, and provide link.

Email is not supposed to be used to send unsolicited large data.

> That requires all members of the group to manually set those limits.
True again, but you can help this along by setting the default for any new members who subscribe in the future.

As most groups I administer are actually transferred from many years old Yahoo groups, I have very large number of members that have wrong preset and most of them do not even have groups.io accounts, they just use email.

> After all having such option does not hurt. Ones who needs it will get
> it. Ones who do not need it should not use it.
Well, yes and no.
It doesn't hurt me if none of the groups that I'm in use the feature. But if I'm a member of a group that chooses to limit the attachments, and I have a sturdy email service that doesn't need such a limit, or could tolerate a much higher one, then I am hurt by not receiving the information another member had wanted to send.

Its not that simple.

Firstly, group owner sets the rules. Members just abide rules.

Secondly, this would not prevent anyone to send info, just prevents users to send far to large attachments. Users can always upload on on some site, and provide link. That is the whole point.

Or all members are hurt by having to put up with the original member getting around the limit by breaking up the collection and sending "Part 2", "Part 3", ... messages.

And be banned from the group first time they do that :)

I'm not saying I'm totally opposed to having such a group option. I'm just pointing out some of the downsides from the member's point of view for consideration.

That is ok, but that is what group owner has to decide. Al I asked is to provide option so we can decide.


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Pedja YT9TP

Pedja,

When You set limit on incoming mail, that means message would be
bounced and sender would be informed that his message is too large
(that actually happens on each classical mail server, when someone
tries to send too big email).

That presumably happens with Groups.io as well, but the limit might be much larger than classical email servers, and would not be under an individual group's control.

Limiting incoming mail keeps resources for everyone, including members
and groups.io.

The need to live within a group's storage allocation is a good reason to have a threshold size limit at the group level. And in that context it probably makes more sense for it to apply to the total of the message's attachments, rather than to each attachment individually.

If we relay on outgoing limits, then that means that if user did not
set limit for messages sent to him, he will suffer each time someone
sends ridiculously big attachments.

True, but as I mentioned previously, some (or these days most) of the members might not "suffer" from large (or numerous) attachments, rather they may prefer to have them delivered rather than having to fetch them from the site.

That requires all members of the group to manually set those limits.

True again, but you can help this along by setting the default for any new members who subscribe in the future.

After all having such option does not hurt. Ones who needs it will get
it. Ones who do not need it should not use it.

Well, yes and no.

It doesn't hurt me if none of the groups that I'm in use the feature. But if I'm a member of a group that chooses to limit the attachments, and I have a sturdy email service that doesn't need such a limit, or could tolerate a much higher one, then I am hurt by not receiving the information another member had wanted to send.

Or all members are hurt by having to put up with the original member getting around the limit by breaking up the collection and sending "Part 2", "Part 3", ... messages.

I'm not saying I'm totally opposed to having such a group option. I'm just pointing out some of the downsides from the member's point of view for consideration.

Shal


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On my groups, I set the Default Sub Settings for attachments to 0 (all attachments are sent as links in emails.)? If someone wants to receive the actual attachments, they can change it to whatever size they're comfortable with.? That won't do anything for existing members, only new ones.? If you don't have too many existing members, you could change it for each of them in their Advanced Preferences.? Otherwise you could post instructions on your group and hopefully most would change it, if needed.

Does this work with members who do not have groups.io accounts? Most of the members I have are not.

--
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Pedja YT9TP

On 23.09.2018 05:56, Bruce Bowman wrote:

I suggest that initially this would be set up to simply reject (send back) messages that exceed the group's limit, and that this limit be chosen from a pick list (like photo size currently is). We can certainly get more elaborate than this if we want to, but the more complicated we make it the less likely it is to be implemented. For the same reason, let's try to reach something approaching a consensus before taking this back to Mark.

That would be more than enough.

--
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Pedja YT9TP

Hi all,

This week's change log:


Feel free to reply to this topic if you'd like to comment on the
changes. Or better yet, if you expect a lot of discussion start a new
topic (or rejoin an existing one) about a specific change.

NEW: New member post status overrides:
Override: moderate the first message of every topic this person starts

The driving use case for this was members who habitually post new topics with undesirable Subject content. For example things like "Help" or misuse of Hashtags. Moderating the initial post of the topic gives the moderator a chance to improve the Subject text, or send it back to the member for improvement, before the poor Subject has been sent to other members (and hence repeated in their replies).

and Override: moderate all topics started by this person

The driving use case for this was members who habitually start controversial topics. The difference is that replies to this topic will also be moderated.


Comments about these others are also welcome:

BUGFIX: Fixed a bug in the /downloadarchives API endpoint.
CHANGE: Added a bunch of panels to Account, Edit Sub and Member pages
to try to make things more clear. Also worked on some of the
descriptions.
BUGFIX: The 'To' header line of Email Integrations contained an
invalid email address.
NEW: Made the database table map view display much quicker, without
the flickering as it loaded the map.
API: New subscription post_status values:
sub_poststatus_modfirstmessage, sub_poststatus_modstartedtopics
CHANGE: Made New Poll a tab in the sidebar instead of a button on the
New Topic page.
NEW: Respect column colors in table map views.
NEW: In a table map view, we now pop up a title when mousing over a
pin.
NEW: In a premium group, when viewing a table with an address, changed
the toggle buttons between map and list views.
NEW: Upgraded to Fontawesome 5.3.1
BUGFIX: In a premium group, when changing the sort of a table with an
address in list view, it'd go back to map view.
MISC: Cleaned up a lot of CSS on the website and made all the icons a
consistent type.

Please call out any you find significant.

Shal



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Ilene,

She doesn't use Incredimail and her address is AOL
How does my email show up. I have gmail but I use Incredimail.

No CC field on your messages in GMF, if that's what you're asking.

Oh, did you say that you're receiving two copies of such messages?

You should take such a pair, and analyze the headers of both, now that you know how.

Likely one will show that it passed through Groups.io, while the other will show that it arrived directly at your Gmail. If that's true then it is conclusive evidence that the CC is occurring at the member's email service, not at Groups.io.

Shal


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Steve,

Besides disallowing all attachments, is there a way to filter and
delete specific files, perhaps by filename?

There's no feature like that.

You could moderate all messages, or just that member, and delete the attachments from the messages as they arrive in Pending; but that isn't a practical approach in all groups.

Shal


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Samuel,

I created a group today and I'm testing it. However, when I send a
subscription mail (+subscribe) from another e-mail address, I (the
moderator) don't get a notification, ... and the "pending" members
page shows nothing pending.

Neither of those would happen until the sender replies to a confirmation email sent to him/her by Groups.io.

... I (the sender) don't get any feedback, ...

You ought to have. Be sure to check your spam folder or anywhere else that your email service may have redirected the confirmation request. For example:

Subject: Confirm Your Groups.io Subscription
From: Groups.io <shalstest+[redacted]@groups.io>

You should have received a similar email, but naming your group rather than my test group. I redacted some identification numbers.

Does this mean groups.io has finally stopped, ...

How dramatically apocalyptic. :-\

or does it mean that my group takes a while to be activated, or what?

As Duane said, new groups do need to be approved. I know that your group won't send out any emails to members until it is approved, but I don't happen to know if the +subscribe email command is also disabled.

Shal


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This message contains a 55MB attachment. I don't expect you to let it go through on moderation...but the fact remains, if this group was not moderated the message would go right on through and be forwarded to every member of the group.

Please consider this when responding to Pedja.

Bruce
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[Attachment trimmed by moderator. Please don't use GMF as a test group.]

On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 06:18 PM, Pedja wrote:

Moderation is not practical. It just slows down everything. We want to let people freely exchange attachments as long as attachments as those are usualz documents that are supposed to be sent to all members.

This option has been requested before (see??). It hasn't been brought up in awhile, but with that massive photo attachment that Mark had to address, it seems to me that the time is ripe to revisit this. *My* main concern stems from the possibility that people will someday start posting videos. So for what it's worth, I agree with you; and if you eventually make a feature request back in beta I will certainly give it a bump.

I suggest that initially this would be set up to simply reject (send back) messages that exceed the group's limit, and that this limit be chosen from a pick list (like photo size currently is). We can certainly get more elaborate than this if we want to, but the more complicated we make it the less likely it is to be implemented. For the same reason, let's try to reach something approaching a consensus before taking this back to Mark.
?
My $0.02,
Bruce
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开云体育

That is what I thought it to be too. Bur I received my copy in my personal email?? right away though because I BCC'd myself. So I am thinking the delay was getting it over to Groups IO ? I am waiting for Duane to write back to me to let me know what he says about it. ? ? Thanks, Ilene ? ? ? ? ?

Ilene,

If I am reading it right - it was a Google hold up and a 3 hour delay

As I read it the 3 hour delay was detected at the receipt by Google. Which may mean that IncrediMail (or your email application) took that long to send it on to Google. Or it could mean that Google wasn't available for three hours, but that seems much less likely to me.

Shal


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开云体育

Well I did get an answer from one of the members I wrote to. She doesn't use Incredimail and her address is?AOL? How does my email show up. I have gmail but I use Incredimail. ? Here are her answers below. She was the only one who answered me so far. I guess it would be good to see if there is a pattern. Ilene ? Hello , I will answer what questions I can. 1) are you starting a new email - NO 2) are you forwarding mail from another group - YES, MAIL FROM OTHER GROUPS, BOTH GOOGLE AND YAHOO GROUPS. 3) are you using?yahoo?when you send in your mail or are you using Incredimail? I ONLY USE YAHOO MAIL, I DO NOT HAVE INCREDIMAIL. 4) do you use the name of the group that comes up?in your contacts? NO. I COPY AND PASTE THE GROUP ADDRESS FROM A TEXT FILE SO THERE ARE NO MISTAKES. <[email protected]> 5) Do you use auto complete? NO, BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ALWAYS WORK. SO I COPY AND PASTE THE ADDRESS INTO THE "TO" SPACE IN THE EMAIL. ? ? ? ? ?

Ilene,

Another thing I did notice was *Via Groups IO* gets attached to their
name in the From Field
You use gmail and it shows in the from field just your name.

That's Groups.io's work-around for "the DMARC problem" at work.

If IncrediMail has a way to show you the full from address (including the email address, not just the display name) you'll find that those members' messages are

From: displayname <username@...>

It is the fact that the actual From address ends with @groups.io rather than the member's actual domain (yahoo.com) that causes the phrase "Via groups.io" to be displayed by Incredimail (and many other services).

Why this address munging is necessary for some email services is a bit of a long sad story. Search GMF for "DMARC" and you'll likely find more than you wanted to know.

Shal


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Janie,

Very unimpressed. Who runs IO???

I read elsewhere that your invitation has been accepted; so finally good news.

But to address your question:

Near the beginning of the month I asked Mark Fletcher (who runs Groups.io) about transfer times. He said then that they were running about a week behind, and he tries not to let it get much more than that.

He also reported that Yahoo had changed their CAPTCHA system and that is making it much easier for him to accept invitations. He was planning to cut the backlog down that day (9/4).

And the above is EXACTLY what I have done, yet six weeks out the first
failed acceptance of my invite, and nearing three weeks after my
second attempt, I sit with no acceptance of the invite.

So I suspect that something you did in the last few days got your transfer into the queue, where before it had not been.

Shal


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开云体育

All of the groups are REPLY TO SENDER I?wrote a whole bunch of emails to the?AOL?and Yahoo email users and asked the questions you?wanted to know. ? Another thing I did notice was Via Groups IO gets attached to their name in the From Field You use gmail and it shows in the from field just your name. The AOL and Yahoo users, they have the via groups IO after the name. So if you were using a yahoo email address for instance it would say: Shal Farley via Groups IO ? I will get back to you when I get answers?from the members I wrote to. ? Ilene ? ? ?

On 22.09.2018 22:44, Duane wrote:

In your group settings, you could set the Attachments option under Message Formatting to Moderated.? Then you could see how large they are before approving them.

Moderation is not practical. It just slows down everything. We want to let people freely exchange attachments as long as attachments as those are usualz documents that are supposed to be sent to all members.

We have problems only if attachments are too large. We simply do not want members to be able to send such emails at all.

On my groups, I set the Default Sub Settings for attachments to 0 (all attachments are sent as links in emails.)? If someone wants to receive the actual attachments, they can change it to whatever size they're comfortable with.? That won't do anything for existing members, only new ones.? If you don't have too many existing members, you could change it for each of them in their Advanced Preferences.? Otherwise you could post instructions on your group and hopefully most would change it, if needed.

Well, with lists with several hundred members that is hardly solution.

--
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Pedja YT9TP

In your group settings, you could set the Attachments option under Message Formatting to Moderated.? Then you could see how large they are before approving them.

On my groups, I set the Default Sub Settings for attachments to 0 (all attachments are sent as links in emails.)? If someone wants to receive the actual attachments, they can change it to whatever size they're comfortable with.? That won't do anything for existing members, only new ones.? If you don't have too many existing members, you could change it for each of them in their Advanced Preferences.? Otherwise you could post instructions on your group and hopefully most would change it, if needed.

Duane
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