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On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 08:41 am, Dawson, Rosemary wrote:

I really need to see who had edited their group profile.

Having looked at the Activity Log on the Group I moderate what you want is already there. (I think!)

Just above the list of "Activities" there is a search facility. Two of the options available to you are Changed display name and Changed email.

Do those meet your requirements?

Regards,

Chris

Yes, you can change plans at any time.? Admin -> Upgrade -> click on View/Change Plan.
I did the same, signed up for premium monthly, imported my members (it's a static group) via Direct Add, then downgraded to free plan a month later.

The spam so called "feedback loop" is unrelated to the type of plan the group is on.? see?https://blog.returnpath.com/what-is-a-feedback-loop/
Toby

Almost everything a group member does shows up in the very useful log of Activities. I really need to see who had edited their group profile.? It is too tedious to search through 760 names in the Directory to get this information.

Can that be added to the Activity listing, or is there another way for me to see who has edited their group profile on a daily basis?

Thanks,

Ro

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 06:08 am, Bruce Bowman wrote:

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 08:36 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

That is, it may be belts-and-suspenders, but I don't know that for certain.

Of course if neither happens then the process stalls and it is up to Mark and/or the Y!group admins to notice and attempt to get it back on track somehow.

I'm with you, Shal. Dano has his experience and I have mine, but neither may reflect the current process. Given that Mark is not here, it would be nice to hear from someone currently undergoing a transfer so we can further fine-tune the GMF wiki. Failing that, I will continue to advise group owners who are having problems to invite the transfer agent manually. It certainly won't harm anything and is in keeping with what the instructions say they should do.

?

Going back to the message that started this (before we kinda drifted off-topic), Randy stated that his attempts to send the invitation manually resulted in an "invalid address" error. On that basis I knew what he had done...sent the invitation from his groups.io group. How did I know that? Because I once did the same thing.

?

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce,

As was probably obvious from my previous post on this Topic (thread), I had "guessed" that the original problem was an issue with the [email protected]?email address. In fact, I did a check with an online email address checker and it confirmed that it thought there was an issue with the email address.

The other thing that led me to believe it was the email address having a problem was when I checked the "Easy Group Transfer" link which is at the bottom of every groups.io page and it led to what appeared to be clear directions on which steps to take and the second step was:

/yahootransfer


=============================================

Step 2

Send an invite to your Yahoo Group to?[email protected]

=============================================
I've followed that step several times myself for group transfers and it being Yahoo, I know the process is to type an email address in an invite box, click on the 'do it' button and hold your breath to see what, if anything happens. So, it seemed to me that this was likely where the problem was. Be that as it may, it now seems that those steps may NOT be what is required.

There is more text at the bottom of the Yahoo Easy Group Transfer page which seem to discuss a different process. If the group Wiki is being updated, that is fine, but it seems that the public link pages are what need to be updated.

--
Gerald

We? are just in the beginnings of setting up our group.? Might total 30-40members when done.
?The easiest way to do this, I just discovered, is simply entering/registering people myself rather than instruct them on how to join.? We have many older, unsophisticated people.
? ? Once our small group is set up - would then like to go back to free basic plan.
? ? ?Another question - would this upgrade stop members from automatically be removed when their system thinks they are getting spammed??

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 08:36 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

That is, it may be belts-and-suspenders, but I don't know that for certain.

Of course if neither happens then the process stalls and it is up to Mark and/or the Y!group admins to notice and attempt to get it back on track somehow.

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 11:38 pm, I wrote:

Rereading some of? Shal's comments in earlier emails I intend to do a further edit to the Mechanism section later

Well... that isn't quite what happened in the end!

The edits to Mechanism were very small - just odd words. I have done a major addition to How can I stop this from happening again? because a lot of what had been written was only really applicable to those using their Service Provider's mail UI, not an Email Client UI. Using the latter brings with it some complications, and hopefully I have addressed those that are important in the context of managing messages mislabelled as Spam by the Service Provider.

I am concious that doing that strays into places where the technically less confident* might feel a bit out of their comfort zone, but I feel that not putting it in would have left a large gap in the guidance.

I think I might remove the "old" Notifications because they are not really serving any useful purpose.

Shal; your observations would be welcome, along with any others...

* Please note the, er, tactful description.

Chris

Derek,

But: if a subscriber to a subgroup that is invisible in the parent
group posts a message, where does the public see it?

or


Where "example" and "subgroup" are just placeholders for the actual subdomain and subgroup names.

Now, how the public might discover those web addresses is another question. One answer is that the content of the subgroup Home page description, or of a message in the subgroup, might be found in a web search engine (Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, etc.). Another answer might be that someone posted one or the other, or a link to one of the messages, either in the primary group or in a public website or ...

Shal


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Sharon,

The reason I like hashtags is that the topic is clear—its like a
standardized key word.

While I agree, I'm not sure how that's relevant to your original question about Groups.io's directory listings.

Subject lines are not clear. If someone changes it or the thread is
the same subject as a thread from yesterday or last, that isn’t
reflected.

Groups.io's processing of inbound messages to determine whether they should be added to an existing Topic or start a new Topic is more restrictive than Y!Groups's was.

There are two basic factors in both implementations:

1) Whether the message has the same Subject line (excluding things like Re:) as an existing message.

2) Whether the message has an "In-Reply-To" field in its header that cites an existing message. Most email interfaces will insert that standard header field when the user Replies to a message rather than Composes a new one. Some email interfaces use the "References" header field instead; Groups.io uses that one also, Y!Groups did not.

Where the two differ is that Y!G's implementation uses the logical OR of those two conditions, where Groups.io uses a more complex evaluation.

A practical difference is that a frequent complaint relating to Y!Groups was that someone could post a new message whose Subject line happened to be a textual match for a message that was years old, and Y!Groups would tie them together anyway (condition 1); and conversely a member could post entirely new content under a changed Subject line, but because they happened to start with a reply to an existing message it would get tied to that messages (condition 2).

On the other hand the complaint for Groups.io is more often the other way around - messages that should have been treated as part of an existing Topic sometimes aren't.

There's no perfect world, I think.

One list with tens of thousands of messages could probably be narrowed
down to 15 topics.

With Groups.io's more restrictive evaluation that's much less likely. In particular, a message won't link to an existing Topic if the last post in that Topic is more than two weeks old - unless condition (2) is also met.

Shal


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Bruce,

Hmmm...both the Yahoo group transfer instructions and the GMF wiki
still state that you have to manually send the transfer agent an
invitation.

When the Form submission was first created there was a brief time (maybe less than a day) when the instructions did not mention inviting the transfer agent, but waiting to approve the transfer agent if needed ...

and depending on group settings this might not even be possible.

... and then Mark ran into the "Invitation only" type of group. And so the instructions changed again to require an invitation. Bottom item:

Someone needs to confirm the actual process so the documentation can
be kept current.

I'm not sure we know, fully.

It is safe to say that the Y!Group should invite the transfer agent; because the instructions say so. What I'm not certain of is what happens in the event that a group reaches the head of the queue, or some timeout, without the transfer agent receiving the invitation. Maybe Mark will then attempt to subscribe to the group.

That is, it may be belts-and-suspenders, but I don't know that for certain.

Of course if neither happens then the process stalls and it is up to Mark and/or the Y!group admins to notice and attempt to get it back on track somehow.

Shal


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Brett,

If I'm reading the thread correctly, should our setting be updated to
"Reply to Group"?

If you're talking about David's group, yes. That would best enable what he wants (replies to his Groups.io and also another list).

To make it even better a suggestion could be posted on beta to add an "All Recipients" setting to the Reply-To option. Then when a member happens to cross-post to another list, that other list would be included in the Reply-To field generated by Groups.io.

If you're talking about some other group, then it would depend on the needs of the group. Some groups aren't really for conversations but more of a bulletin-board. Examples include Freecycle, Freegle, and other sharing-oriented groups; in this type of group it is more appropriate that replies to offers be sent only to the original poster.

Shal


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Thanks Shal!

I checked the settings of the list in question and it is currently set to "Reply to Sender"

Other options include: Group, Moderators, & Group and Sender.

If I'm reading the thread correctly, should our setting be updated to "Reply to Group"?

Bruce, you are correct. This change hasn't been well documented, but it was just after our experience that Mark created the form on the join page. That was prompted not only by that change but by the desire for people to be able to verify that their transfer was indeed in process. Of course that doesn't mean that the invitation process won't work, either. By inviting the transfer agent and still filling out the form, a group owner stands a better chance of getting the transfer agent onto the Yahoo group to be transferred. Somewhat of a belt-and-suspenders way of looking at the situation.

Dano

David,

|_| I always want copies of my own messages

This only affects messages that I send, right?

Correct.

Is there a way to set this for everyone.

No.

In particular note that it is an Account setting, not a Subscription setting. This means it affects all groups to which you have a subscription (under this address).

It seems to just not insert a Reply-To for our list, which is pretty
important for cross posting to work (otherwise our group effectively
steals threads from every other list).

I'm not certain what you mean here. As far as I know there's no way to prevent Groups.io from putting a Reply-To field in the header of outbound messages.

In any case, if you can resolve those cases where it appears that Groups.io removed the other list from the To or CC field then it seems like the right thing will happen if you set your Groups.io group to have Reply To the group, and for members to habitually use the Reply All feature of their email service. But...

1) The Reply All will most likely include a direct message to the sender, as well as both groups.

2) One possible reason for Groups.io not to pass the address of the other list would be if it was named in a BCC. In that case that address was never delivered to Groups.io from the sender's email service.

3) Reply All doesn't seem to be implemented uniformly among all email services. That is, I've read of odd cases where Groups.io messages are concerned (or any message with a Reply-To field).

Shal


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On Apr 8, 2018, at 1:25 AM, Gerald Boutin <groupsio@...> wrote:

A Topic is a group of messages that consisting of the initial message and all ongoing replies. Hence, the name of the Topic is the subject of the first message.

The number shown in Topics view is a count of the messages in the topic.

The reason I like hashtags is that the topic is clear—its like a standardized key word. Subject lines are not clear. If someone changes it or the thread is the same subject as a thread from yesterday or last, that isn’t reflected.

Counting topics by using subject lines doesn’t really mean anything beyond how many people responded to that one message and didn’t change the subject line.

One list with tens of thousands of messages could probably be narrowed down to 15 topics.

Sharon
----
Sharon Villines, Washington DC

"Save Our Planet. It's the only one with chocolate."

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 05:59 pm, D R Stinson wrote:

This change was added after member invitations started failing to work. We were able to have the transfer agent use the "request membership" process instead to get a couple groups I was helping to get moved, and I believe the transfer agent is now using that method to join your Yahoo group.

Hmmm...both the Yahoo group transfer instructions and the GMF wiki still state that you have to manually send the transfer agent an invitation. There is no suggestion that the agent will send Yahoo a membership request; and depending on group settings this might not even be possible.

It's been a couple months since I've done this and quite a bit has changed since then. Someone needs to confirm the actual process so the documentation can be kept current.?

Regards,
Bruce

Mary Ellen,

If a member is automatically removed from a group (because of the
reported spam issue), does Groups.IO notify the owner of the group ...

As Chris said, a notice is sent to the group admins (owners and moderators).

I think that any owner or moderator may elect not to receive such notices by unchecking the "Email when a member joins/leaves this group" box, in the Notifications section of his/her Subscription page. That may be appropriate for admins who have limited authority or responsibility in the group.

Also, an entry is made in the group's Activity log. These can be searched for under the "Removed because of spam report" Action.

I would follow up with each "removed" member to give training if I
know their email addresses.

Several of us (GMF members) been working at making the "Removed for Marking Messages as spam" page in GMF's wiki (linked under Advice to Group Members) as useful as practical (clear, but comprehensive). You may link to it or crib from it if you think that will help your members.

Please feel free to ask, comment, suggest or criticize (constructively of course) if you see ways that page can be improved, especially from the member's point of view.
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Removed-for-spam

Shal


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Thanks. ?That makes sense. ?But: if a subscriber to a subgroup that is invisible in the parent group posts a message, where does the public see it? ?I haven’t explored the publicly-viewable messages area yet, but I’ll check there next.

Don,

The invitation you sent had my first name on it. Did you put that
there or does the invite process add that name?

I did that. I meant to mention that I used the form of address:

Don <user@...>

I usually do that if I have knowledge of the person's name. It gives them an initial display name for their account, if they don't already have a Groups.io account.

If you leave that out and submit just the email address then the salutation in the message is just "Hello," without a name. And for the invitation I don't think groups.io looks up the Display name associated with the account, if any.

Shal


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Derek,

What does this option mean "Group not listed in parent group, publicly
viewable messages."

It means that the subgroup won't be shown in the Subgroups page of the parent (main) group. And that the Messages page of the subgroup is viewable by anyone (public) member or not of either group.

Is this for one-way email subgroups?

No. Having the subgroup not listed in the main group won't prevent main group members from learning about it (especially not with public Messages), or accessing it's home page.

On the whole it seems like a somewhat useless combination, but maybe someone has a use case for it.

I'm new here and have a multi-level group to add, where "public" and
"parent group" privacies are important. If there's a reference for
this, let me know. Thanks.

Generally "public" means anyone anyone (and any search engine) on the web, and "private" means members-only. In a subgroup you have the additional option of having the Messages visible to parent group members as well as members of the subgroup but not the public.

Shal


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