On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 11:26 am, Marv Waschke wrote:

The danger is that email may decline as a common communication method.

For some specialised applications, possibly; for "general" use then highly improbable IMHO.

You also queried Oath's apparent indifference to "the chaos in Yahoo Groups". There have been odd rumours for years suggesting that Yahoo was probably hoping that groups would simply "go away", and of course that is exactly what has happened, courtesy of Groups.io! Oath may also take the view that there are more important matters to deal with than "groups".

For myself I wouldn't lose a moment's sleep if for some reason "groups by email" were suddenly disabled; the Groups.io web interface is just so much better than Yahoo's ever was; much faster responding and generally much more user - friendly, to the point where my personal choice is now to use web access rather than email. I find it much easier to keep track of the views expressed by contributors using web access rather than email.

Of course, as in so many things, YMMV!

Chris

I hate to get into this conversation, but here's my two cents: whatever groups.io does about this, it's barely even a slap on the wrist if it lets the member right back in again, which it does. It's like going through the motions. In fact, in my group if I've seen that it's happened, I just direct-add the person back in, since we're a premium group with that capability. I'm not saying do it or don't do it. I just don't see it having much value. But maybe I don't have a thorough grasp of the situation.
--
J

I think Mark is right. The problem will not diminish, and could get worse, if members are not forced to adjust their spam filters to allow for emails from the groups. It's harsh medicine, but as long as spam filters remain as unsophisticated as they are now, email will remain vulnerable to spamming. Spam filters could be much more sophisticated than they are now. Self-learning systems are not quite baked, IMHO, but they are getting better every day and they are well suited to discerning spam filters.

The danger is that email may decline as a common communication method. In software development, for example, there has been a mass movement away from using email for open group communication because spam is too much of a bother. This is unfortunate because the alternatives, mostly messaging systems like Slack, are good for conversation, but not so good for the kind of interaction that occurs in many groups.io groups in which the exchange is of short essays rather than conversation.

Why isn't Oath: paying attention to the chaos in Yahoo Groups? Perhaps because they perceive that email groups are dying. Spam issues are one cause for decline. I think Mark is right to fight it with strong medicine.
Best, Marv
And Happy Easter!

That is what they changed the message to on the login screen a while back. I also found it confusing and not really appropriate to the situation. Just ignore the message and use the address and password on your Yahoo account to login.

Jonathan

Thanks Shal. That clarifies things. I'll submit a request to be able to send a timezone for the Message History table, which would make especially sense for groups that are local in nature. ?

Wim van Dam

? 12:48 pm??? It would be very helpful to be able to search / browse groups by category.? ?There are new groups on Groups.io but it is not easy to find them for a specific interest area.? For example I'd like to see the new groups for "Amateur and Ham Radio" that are being formed.? See the illustration below, I don't think there is a good way to do this currently but it seem like it would not be difficult to add.

Regards, Al / NN4ZZ
al (at) NN4ZZ (dot) com

RE to:?/g/GroupManagersForum/message/6797

Another point of view. (To my last message.)

AFTER you get in, I would set up an extra Co_Owner in a different Yahoo Profile
with a different e-mail address (non-Yahoo) or with some very trusted friend.

Think of this as YOUR other way in...
This assumes Yahoo is working a little now, or then <grin>

Rick

Just like groups.io, Yahoo has always forced me to re-login periodically.

Bruce

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 07:52 am, Gerald Boutin wrote:

?Sorry, I have to ask. What does "Delete Account functionality" mean?

The "Delete Account" button actually does something now.

Bruce

ALL quoting removed.
Thanks again Shal, your places to look helped 1+1 at least understand the problem.

Part 1)
I'm at 1+1WEBmail and would like to post a picture of these "stupid" buttons.
(Sent from it here might only look attached I guess?)
(If that fails I'll resend it from .IO-WEB)

Part 2)
I'm using a "1+1-workaround" for the dups problem as part of this send.
I'm asking SHAL ONLY to say if he got one or two replies.

IF he says one, ON Group, the thread will seem closed and can be locked.
Thanks to everyone.

Rick

Sent from my 1+1 WEBmail.

开云体育

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 10:36 pm, Bruce Bowman wrote:

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 06:42 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

NEW: Delete account functionality, without having to contact support.

This is nice to have, especially for Mark as the number of subscribers continues to climb.

He even updated the FAQ page!

Bruce

?Sorry, I have to ask. What does "Delete Account functionality" mean?

--
Gerald Boutin

Dear all,

With a good person's help I moved my three Yahoo lists over to groups.io and all has been splendid. I'm writing because I still go over to Yahoo once a week a so to see if say anyone has emailed there by mistake. This morning I tried to go over because I saw a repeating nonsensical email had turned up on one of my lists and discovered I couldn't reach Yahoo? groups at the portal I had used because I was confronted by a demand I sign up for an account as a yahoo person. I am not sure I should do this lest that means I sign out on my regular gmail address (above).?

Can anyone tell me what is happening? is this a ploy to force me to have a different email at Yahoo? would I lose the email that enabled me to be a listowner/moderator of these three yahoo sites for a number of years? Or just click yes and go on? Or should I now forget yahoo exists? I have been on other lists there where I have a few friends and am used sometimes to go over to these few. I'd have to give them up or just hope to maintain contact through gmail.

Ellen Moody

In case if may be helpful to others struggling with attachments, here's a draft of what I'll post on Nordhavn Owners Group as we roll out attachments on a trial basis:

Attachments on Nordhavn Owners Group

?

Your moderator team has been experimenting with attachments on Nordhavn Owners Group over the past few days, and this post is to announce that the attachments feature is now enabled on NOG on a trial basis and is ready for use.??The trial will continue for 30 days?unless we see the need to jump in and make fixes or corrections sooner.?

?

In our?Feb. 15?post on NOG, we said that the new NOG on Groups.io would be rolled out without attachments enabled.??That was to allow the moderator team to focus first on getting members and data moved over and on assuring functionality.??We’ve crossed that bridge now, and our recent poll indicates that by and large NOG members are satisfied with how things are going.??Altogether, 62 respondents (about 70.5% of those responding) said they believe either that NOG should definitely allow attachments or that we should enable attachments on a trial basis, then evaluate and decide. More respondents feel that we should use the trial, and then decide, than any other single choice. That’s the route we’re taking.

?

Something we very much like about NOG here on Groups.io is that we have much more flexibility than we had on Yahoo Groups.?Groups.io allows us to turn on the attachment feature, but if YOU don’t want to receive attachments it allows you as a member to turn off attachments for yourself.??On the other hand, if you want to receive attachments, you can also do that—and set the maximum size of the attachments you receive from the group.??You can make changes any time you want.

?

When we originally set up NOG on Groups.io, we set the default maximum attachment size for all members at 100 kilobytes (KB).??That’s a very small attachment (picture or file), but we wanted to take a conservative approach.???Now that attachments have been enabled for NOG, you need to edit your own NOG subscription to reflect what you want in the way of attachments.

?

Question 1:??Do you want to receive attachments?

?

Question 2:??What’s the maximum size attachment you want to receive?

?

Once you’ve answered those questions, here’s how you change the settings for your subscription:

?

1.?????Go online to NOG’s home page at:?/g/nog

2.?????On the left side menu, click on: Subscription

3.?????Scroll down the page, then click on: Advanced Preferences

? ? ? ? ? ? ? 4.???Scroll further down the page to Max Attachment Size and?you’ll be able to select the maximum?size of attachments to sent to you in emails. For attachments larger than the size you select, hyperlinks to retrieve the attachments, rather than the attachments themselves, will be sent to you.??You can choose from:

????????????????????????Unlimited – no limit on the size of attachments you will receive

????????????????????????0 – no attachments will sent to you

????????????????????????100 KB

????????????????????????500 KB

????????????????????????5 MB

????????????? 5.???Once you’ve made your selection, scroll all the way to the bottom of the page and click on SAVE.

?

If you don't know what size to pick, we recommend 500 KB as a conservative setting to start.? If you need to, you can easily change it later by coming back to these instructions.

?

That’s all there is to it!

Be aware that subscription (and other) settings are specific for each Group.io group you belong to.? So, for example, the fact that you are receiving attachments from Nordhavn Dreamers doesn’t mean you will receive them from NOG.? You have to go to Advanced Settings for each group, individually, to make it happen for each for each group.? There’s no one-size-fits-all setting for all your Groups.io groups!

?

To reiterate:??For NOG, you can choose to receive no attachments or, if you want to receive attachments, you can specify the max attachment size allowed in messages you receive. If an attachment is larger than your max size, you'll get a hyperlink to it on the Groups.io website instead.??Change this as often as you like.??For example: if you’re in a marina or at home where you have a great Internet connection and unlimited bandwidth, go ahead and set attachments to unlimited.??On the other hand, if you’re underway, using an expensive satellite connection, and watching your data usage carefully, it makes sense to disable attachments for the time being.??You’re in control!

If you choose not to receive attachments through NOG, any posts which include attachments will be sent to you normally.?Instead of receiving the attachments and having to download them, you’ll receive a hyperlink where you can go to download the attachment at a time of your choice—but only if you choose to.??Again, you’re in control!

SENDING ATTACHMENTS.??If you want to send an attachment with an email post, send it just as you would send an attachment with any email and address it to NOG at the following address:?[email protected]???Or simply go to NOG online at?/g/nog, click on New Topic on the left side menu, and make a post.??Be sure to click the Attachment (paperclip) icon above the text box for your post and attach your file or photo.

?

If you’re sending attachments, there’s something to keep in mind.??First, the system will take any image over the size limit you have chosen and downscale it to fit the Max Attachment Size you’ve selected. Then it adds up all the attachments in the email or post. If that TOTAL is over the limit it sends hyperlinks instead of the original photos or files. So if you want your photos to get through unscathed, you'll have better luck sending one image per email instead of 5 or 10 images in a single email.

?

If you really want to dig deeper, here’s more information on the subject:

?

Files in general:?
-- All files and photos, whether uploaded or attached to emails, count against NOG total storage allocation

(currently 1 GB).??We ask that you be conservative with your attachments!
-- Once we reach our limit, file attachments to emails will be deleted (oldest first) to remain under quota.
-- Files and photos in member archives can only be deleted manually.
-- Each file in "permanent" storage shrinks the email-attachment queue by a corresponding amount.

Photos specifically:
-- All photos are resized to 2048 pixels or smaller in the longest dimension. This should be more than adequate for viewing online.
-- If you are concerned about loss of photo quality by being rescaled by the server, you should rescale the photo yourself before sending.
-- Anyone with a real need to share print-quality images should upload them to cloud storage and send a link instead.

Email attachment limits:
-- Keep in mind that some email servers will refuse to deliver emails if they get too big.
-- To keep emails from bouncing, if the size exceeds 5 MB, hyperlinks will be sent.
-- Because they are stored on the server, you must log in to?/g/nog?to view/download them.

?

Milt Baker

for the NOG Moderator Team

On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 05:01 am, maggie cooper wrote:

BT uses Yahoo as it's mail delivery partner, that is why I never asked my members with Yahoo mail addresses to choose another mail provider.

Sorry; not universally true. It started to split away from Yahoo a few years ago, and then stopped for some reason, leaving some on a Yahoo - provided service and others not. I am one of the "nots".

See

Regards,

Chris

Mark, BT uses Yahoo as it's mail delivery partner, that is why I never asked my members with Yahoo mail addresses to choose another mail provider.?
''?It is perhaps too easy to assume that they do know how to "train" their mail provider, assuming that the provider actually makes proper provision for it; as stated above I am not entirely convinced that Yahoo (for example) does''
I have Yahoo mail and found several Groups.io mails in the spam folder the first week in February, ticked them and selected '' Not Spam'' at which point they were transferred to the Inbox, since then no other Groups.io mails have shown up in my spam folder folder. I should add I don't have a mail handler on my computer and deal with mail at server level.

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 05:15 pm, Shal Farley wrote:

Of course this question may be moot, as Mark has somewhat clarified his position on this. In part he says:

"- Having a 'forcing function' that gets people to train spam filters to
not mark Groups.io email as spam hopefully decreases the future
likelihood of emails being marked as spam"

I can see the rationale behind this. However, I find myself wondering about "training spam filters"; precisely what does it mean?

My ISP is BT (I'm in the UK) although I normally use Outlook as my email client. When we first migrated to Groups.io I found that quite a few messages from Groups.io were being diverted by BT (or whoever!) having marked them as spam, so unless I went looking for them they were invisible. My immediate workaround was to switch all spam filtering off - obviously not without risk but at the moment the result is manageable. I had a delve around earlier today and there is a setting in the BT email system for designating ":groups.io" emails as not being spam. However, I also have a Yahoo mail account only because it was unavoidable as a Yahoo Group member (several of them) & moderator (of one). Try as I might I cannot find a corresponding means of defining safe senders; yes I can mark individual emails as "not spam" but how many times would I have to do that for Yahoo to "learn" that @groups.io messages were safe? Would it ever actually learn that?

Is Yahoo the exception, with ALL other mail providers allowing specified senders to be marked as being safe? Is it too easy to assume that individual members will be able to know where to look, and be bothered (& have the confidence!) to go and do it? I know that members have to take care of the majority of their own on - line welfare, up to a point anyway. It is perhaps too easy to assume that they do know how to "train" their mail provider, assuming that the provider actually makes proper provision for it; as stated above I am not entirely convinced that Yahoo (for example) does. Expecting members to have to mark numerous messages as "not spam" in the hope that their provider might eventually see the light might just be expecting too much. With such a proliferation of Mail Providers it is almost certainly too simple to expect there to be a "one size fits all" instruction to members.

There is probably no "best" solution to all this. just a "least worst" one.

Regards,

Chris