Re: Caution, if your group has only 1 owner

On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 09:15 PM, Frances wrote:

Yet again a group is threatened with dissolution because the sole group owner has died.

Time to do something about that now, while you can.

I've discovered recently that you can make your ownership of a group (or any other online account) part of your estate in your traditional will or as a separate digital will in some states.? That will allow you to do things as you see fit without naming another owner.? Anyone that feels they can't share ownership could use this without involving Groups.io at all.? It would be up to you to make sure the necessary information is available at the time it's needed.? You can research Digital Estate Planning for more information.

Duane
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Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

Re: Caution, if your group has only 1 owner

#46301

开云体育

Frances,

I respectfully disagree. ?It is long past time for this ongoing problem to be resolved. The first step is to acknowledge that it IS a PROBLEM, most specifically a continuing one in desperate need of appropriate long term resolution. ?

The current “options” are inadequate to protect group owners who wish to protect the continuity of their group if they die or become incapacitated. ?There is simply no way to “be sure” of those one might add as owners at present. ?

We urgently need a “springing successor” option which would implement change of ownership IN THE FUTURE as unforeseen circumstance necessitates. ?It is patently imprudent to appoint one or more new Owners who instantly receive full power to replace the current serving owner AT ANY TIME irreversibly; and yet that is what is currently expected. ?There is presently NO current option that is reasonable, adequate and acceptable to all parties. ?This is illogical.

I fully understand the potential liability to should such transfer not be clear and final. ?That is precisely why the necessity and associated procedures be openly discussed and debated before being acted upon as appropriate. ?Even the federal government does not so encumber management of 501(c)3 nonprofit organizations.

There is simply no credible reason for group owners here to have so little say in the orderly transfer of leadership in organizations THEY ORIGINATED OR NOW OWN. ?Precisely WHO does this present “system” serve? ?Certainly NOT the existing groups, nor their members!

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Every GROUP OWNER that brought their group to was an independent and competent adult at the time they brought them here. ?Why subject such LEADERS to misplaced paternalism and repeatedly denied the right to meaningfully discuss how and when THEIR GROUPS undergo a change of management when such becomes necessary due to unforeseeable future circumstance?

Andy argues that adoption of “...any kind of transfer option puts some responsibility onto??to verify that whatever information they are sent when a transfer of ownership is requested, is genuine.” ?Again, I respectfully disagree. ?

Currently neither has nor accepts any responsibility whatsoever when a group ceases to exist due to a lack of management succession. ?Whatever management succession procedure is adopted should require existing group ownership to provide such transfer of ownership notification as is required to reasonably and with certainty accomplish the purpose intended and to accept sole responsibility for fidelity in such agreed process. ?

Over the years banks have worked out how to transfer ownership of safe deposit boxes, accounts, etc. as necessary. ?The same procedure/language should assure here that the cost of litigation over “false information” in such transfer would remain with the individual group…not exactly a “deep pocket” in the legal sense. ?

I fail to see how any “new trails” would be blazed here so long as each such process/form required all signing parties to accept such responsibility and fully absolve of same. ?If there be legal expense involved if the drafting and adoption of same, my groups would be quite willing to pay our reasonable proportion as calculated by in order to purchase such peace of mind.

The current manner in which GMF “moderation” acts to stifle free and active discussion of such legitimate issues has the predictable result of perpetuating the indefinite continuation of practices clearly inadequate by any reasonable definition, unreasonable and presumptively oppressive to men and women presumably possessing all right(s) of free association in these United States. ?I, for one, would like to see this reality change.

Sincerely,

William R. Bayne

Owner - two “free” groups

—?

Show quoted text

On Feb 17, 2024, at 9:15 PM, Frances <frances@...> wrote:

Yet again a group is threatened with dissolution because the sole group owner has died.

Time to do something about that now, while you can.

Find at least one other person in your group (or someone interested who would join your group) and make them owners.

Frances
--?_._,_._,_

Re: Caution, if your group has only 1 owner

#46300

开云体育

I have an Assistant Administrator for our group. She is a great person and takes over when I am away from my computer for personal or business reasons.?

After talking with her, several years ago I changed the permissions on her account to be equal to mine. In the event something should happen to me, the group will continue without a hitch.

Paula K. Parker

Re: Caution, if your group has only 1 owner

#46299

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 07:52 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:

No "Owner Succession" feature (a Group 'will') is a flaw that Groups.io (and YahooGroups) share(d).

Surely the 'flaw' is with the group owner that fails to consider to the consequences for other members if they are no longer around or able to manage the group.? Having any kind of transfer option puts some responsibility onto Groups.io to verify that whatever information they are sent when a transfer of ownership is requested, is genuine.? I can image the arguments if a transfer of ownership is made and then the request is found to be based on false information.

Regards
Andy?

Re: Caution, if your group has only 1 owner

#46298

Hello all

Wouldn't it be nice if GroupsIO had some sort of feature that an owner could set like if he/she does not log on to the Group in a period of x months or years, then moderator(s) 1 (a new status) would be automatically made owner

By its very nature, one person first creates a group (the new owner) and owners are often working in physical isolation (not a family or company), so groups are vulnerable to losing their owners and ending up without one.

Dave Neve

Re: Caution, if your group has only 1 owner

#46297

No "Owner Succession" feature (a Group 'will') is a flaw that Groups.io (and YahooGroups) share(d).

Every time I've seen one proposed, those who would not use it have railed against having one. 
They insist that the workaround of having more than one Owner (who could delete your Group, or demote or depose you and take over your Group) is adequate and acceptable.

Unfortunately that means Groups continue to become 'orphaned' when the Owner (or last Owner) is no longer active (deceased, incapacitated, losses access to their Email address, or simply loses interest).

Michael

Re: Caution, if your group has only 1 owner

#46296

Keep in mind whoever is added as owner could delete the group and add others as owners.

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So be sure of the people you make owners.

?

Jim

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Excess footer removed by moderator.

Caution, if your group has only 1 owner

#46295

Yet again a group is threatened with dissolution because the sole group owner has died.

Time to do something about that now, while you can.

Find at least one other person in your group (or someone interested who would join your group) and make them owners.

Frances
--
Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

?

Re: Group Forum owner is deceased. Reset?

#46294

Something that has been suggested before - see if some family member of the deceased owner can access the site, probably on the same hardware. That member can make someone else (or hopefully 2 someone else!) owners.

Frances
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Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

?

Re: Group Forum owner is deceased. Reset?

#46293

I know someone that had to start a new group and they copied and pasted the entire posts to the new group. I don't know how they did it, just that they did.?

On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 07:58:22 PM CST, Michael <michael@...> wrote:

That would be sad as everyone would then have to subscribe to the new
group and you would loose all the message history. For some groups, that
message history is valuable information.

Michael

Duane wrote on 2/17/24 5:24 PM:
> On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 11:45 AM, dennnis WB8DD wrote:
>
>? ? Is there someway to reset the group ownership and assign a new owner?
>
> If there isn't anyone to take over the group (owner/mod), the least
> difficult option is to start a new one.
>
> Duane
>

Re: Group Forum owner is deceased. Reset?

#46292

That would be sad as everyone would then have to subscribe to the new
group and you would loose all the message history. For some groups, that
message history is valuable information.

Michael


Duane wrote on 2/17/24 5:24 PM:

Show quoted text

On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 11:45 AM, dennnis WB8DD wrote:

    Is there someway to reset the group ownership and assign a new owner?

If there isn't anyone to take over the group (owner/mod), the least
difficult option is to start a new one.

Duane

Re: Group Forum owner is deceased. Reset?

#46291

On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 11:45 AM, dennnis WB8DD wrote:

Is there someway to reset the group ownership and assign a new owner?

If there isn't anyone to take over the group (owner/mod), the least difficult option is to start a new one.

Duane
--

Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

Re: Group Forum owner is deceased. Reset?

#46290

On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 06:45 PM, dennnis WB8DD wrote:

Is there some way to reset the group ownership and assign a new owner? No, unfortunately groups.io doesn't have a procedure for that yet. You - or rather a moderator of the group - could try emailing to [email protected], but it's possible he/they have other priorities

                                                                         groetjes/?is, Ronaldo

Re: Members who have not reverified (still RI status) removal update

#46289

I have several members who are bouncing and have the RI badge against their accounts, so, yes, apparently, members can be both bouncing and need verification.

DaveD

Show quoted text

On 2/17/2024 1:28 PM, Nivard Ovington wrote:

Of those under RI status who were previous subscribers who had posted, I sent a private message to them, none replied but one reverified

More than half were NMM so had never posted

I have not seen any RI status who were bouncing, I don't think you can have both at the same time?

Of the red B bouncing addresses (none of which were RI status), I periodically go through and check them (they will all have been sent a bounce probe or more) they are not receiving messages so why keep them, if they then realise they are not in the group at some point they are free to rejoin if they wish

An auto response is not the member but their software

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)
[excess quote and meaningless ad trimmed by moderator]

Re: Members who have not reverified (still RI status) removal update

#46288

I was under the impression from whats been said, that Bouncing addresses would not need to reverify but as I have no bouncing RI subscribers I did not need to go further on that subject

As red B bouncing addresses do not get any groups.io posts the only way they would know is a private email

People do have to take some ownership of their own email accounts, I get warnings if my inbox is getting full, so would they (which is a common reason for bouncing) there is only so much hand holding you can do

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

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On 17/02/2024 22:32, Frances wrote:
On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 02:48 PM, Nivard Ovington wrote:
I have not seen any RI status who were bouncing, I don't think you
    can have both at the same time?
I have red bouncing RI members. In Members, use both filters.
However if they are not bouncing, it should be easier to get them to reverify themselves, wouldn't it?
Frances

Re: Group Forum owner is deceased. Reset?

#46287

Bruce,

Thank you for your reply.

Amateur Radio operators are able to check the current status of an operator's license. In this case, the Group owner's license was transferred to a family
member, who herself passed on in December of 2023. That license is no longer valid.

I sent several emails to the address you suggested but only an auto reply message was returned that said to contact the Group owner.

Several other people, including current Groups owners, are also trying to get this resolved. Perhaps they will have more luck.

Thank you for taking the time to try to help me.

Dennis

Re: Members who have not reverified (still RI status) removal update

#46286

On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 02:48 PM, Nivard Ovington wrote:

I have not seen any RI status who were bouncing, I don't think you can have both at the same time?

I have red bouncing RI members. In Members, use both filters.?
However if they are not bouncing, it should be easier to get them to reverify themselves, wouldn't it?

Frances
?
--
Help available from Groups.io help and GMF wiki.

?

Re: Question on subject text formatting/processing #misc

#46285

To clarify the previous message, I'm talking about consecutive spaces in the email subject specifically, not the message body (it doesn't happen there)

Cheers,
Christos

Re: Members who have not reverified (still RI status) removal update

#46284

Of those under RI status who were previous subscribers who had posted, I sent a private message to them, none replied but one reverified

More than half were NMM so had never posted

I have not seen any RI status who were bouncing, I don't think you can have both at the same time?

Of the red B bouncing addresses (none of which were RI status), I periodically go through and check them (they will all have been sent a bounce probe or more) they are not receiving messages so why keep them, if they then realise they are not in the group at some point they are free to rejoin if they wish

An auto response is not the member but their software

Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Show quoted text

I received an autoreply from one RI member. I sent them a message through Admin, Members, Send Message (bottom of the record). The member was bouncing and RI. The message was about a change of email address. So messages are getting through from group owners to RI members. I also see them in Email Delivery History.

Question on subject text formatting/processing #misc

#46283

Hi Folks,

I composed a test message online that had more that 1 consecutive space, eg. Use this code '?? ' to comment, 3 spaces single-quoted, but when the message is sent, that subject is altered to concatenate those 3 spaces into 1, eg. Use this code ' ' to comment (visible in the View Source).? I thought this was happening only online but then in further testing I found out Tbird and Gmail -and I now guess others- also do that, they also convert any consecutive spaces in the subject text into a single one before sending.

I'm no email expert by any means but I wasn't aware there's a convention that dictates this multiple space elimination, so I'm curious as to why it's done if anyone knows.

Cheers,
Christos