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On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 05:42 PM, Andrea McGhee wrote:

I am noticing that when I reply to these messages, no trimming is needed. Is there a setting which results in all previous text
being truncated?

Andi - if you're replying via the web interface, then this neatly illustrates the difference between using the web interface vs. an email post. If not, then you have some thread-friendly settings in your mail client! To explain...

if you reply in the Web interface, then the default behaviour is effectively to trim, i.e. not include any of the previous message text. Because what you see in the Web interface is generated and managed by the Groups.io code, this is entirely within the control of Groups.io. You can, as I have done in this case, choose to reply and quote some (or all) of the message text by highlighting the text before clicking the Reply button. Again, this is possible because the Groups.io code has complete visibility and control of the interface.

On the other hand, if you reply from your mail client, Groups.io have precisely zero control over trimming, since they only 'see' the message when our mail client delivers it. Trimming pretty much has to be done or not by you (manually) or your mail client. For instance, I use the Thunderbird mail client which allows me to choose whether to automatically quote the original message when replying, also whether to top- or bottom-post or whether to select the part of the message to be quoted. My experience with various mail clients over the years (whether desktop or web-based) is that the default is usually to quote the full message.

Hope that's helpful!

Regards,

Derek?

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 03:56 PM, Linda Liao wrote:

She has tried to respond to messages on the group, but they are not going through to the person who posted the message. She's logging into the groups.io website and clicking on reply and nothing.

Well, it can't be "nothing"...if she actually sent a message with a BCC to herself (see below) then the message composition window must have popped up.?

I've had her try testing it out with me also and I haven't received any of her emails and she's forwarded me the bcc she received. ?Has this happened to anyone else before?

I've not experienced this problem myself. I will say that private replies -- sent either by email or the web interface -- are not logged.

A step-by-step description of exactly what she's doing (perhaps including screenshot or two) will go a long way towards helping us help her.

Regards,
Bruce

---

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Thank you, Skip, for responding to my message with such warmth and understanding.
I am glad you are an interloper here.

I am noticing that when I reply to these messages, no trimming is needed. Is there a setting which results in all previous text
being truncated?

Thank you all for your time and support in this matter.
--
-?
Warm Regards,
Andi

So hers are actually private replies to a message. So I believe those aren’t logged in the activity log either so I am not seeing it show up anywhere.?

I have had a similar problem with a member. In his case, the message posted on groups.io (in the message window) but was never received by anyone on the listserv. And then it magically was fixed but periodically recurs according to my member.?

does yours appear on the GIO message page?

I am mostly an observer here. I don't manage any active GIO groups,
but am sympathetic to Andi's problems trying to get people to trim
messages to which they are replying.

Many individuals on the forum don't know / understand the language
of trimming and even when I have shared examples, Members don't seem
very interested in carrying out the tasks.

The mechanics of how to reply to email or Usenet posts has a long and
sordid history. In the pre-Outlook/Gmail days it was fairly common for
people to trim posts to the parts relevant to the reply and post said
reply below the quote (so-called bottom posting). On Usenet and many
mailing lists, people who didn't conform to groups' conventions
(generally bottom posting while heavily trimming the original message)
were roundly criticized. Flame wars have erupted over the topic which
could rival other pre-social-media flame wars (think Emacs vs vi). In
the earliest days of network connectivity, there were valid economic
reasons to heavily trim message to which you were replying. After all,
if you connected to the outside world using a 300 baud modem and paid
per-minute charges for long distance phone calls, needlessly
downloading superfluous text could get expensive. In the age of
widespread broadband connectivity, that economic argument has fallen
by the wayside.

The currently common technique of top posting while including the
entire message to which one is responding, seems to have gained
dominance once business users began using email heavily. I blame
Outlook (and to a lesser extent, Gmail) for fostering that reply
style. I'm no longer an Outlook user (only at my last job - but I got
criticized there for not including entire message histories in my
replies), but Gmail's behavior of burying the message you are
responding to in an ellipsis at the bottom of the reply makes it easy
for people to misunderstand how much needless fluff is hidden at the
bottom of every message they send. I believe Outlook does something
similar, though I can't quite remember what it looks like
(thankfully).

Perhaps there are some bits you can snip from this Wikipedia page:



At minimum, the definitions of top posting, bottom posting and inline
posting are given as well as examples of all three.

Skip Montanaro, GIO interloper/watcher in
Evanston IL

Helllo Shal,
Thank you for responding to my request for support.

Here is a to the video. I recommend starting at around minute 2:00.

Respectfully, I looked at the?Message Composition Tips and Tricks page before
writing to GMF and I did not find anything as simple and clear as I was hoping for.

Many individuals on the forum don't know / understand the language
of trimming and even when I have shared examples, Members don't seem
very interested in carrying out the tasks.

The fact is many posts have a link that says, "show quoted text" or
three "..."? This makes it hard to remember to delete that which you do not see.
I added a reminder for myself and others to my sign-off which says,
"I remembered to trim :-))?

The real issue is for the the responses that are not hidden behind the "show
quoted text" or "..." because then you have to scroll and scroll and scroll...

I was hoping here I would find a ready made solution, may be a marked up photo example, etc.
that I could use. Certainly if something was available, I did not want to reinvent?
the wheel, so to speak.

In any case, I am grateful for your time and response.
--
-?
Warm Regards,
Andi

Ronaldo,

This is why interspersed replying was invented, ...

While that can help mitigate the effects of a lack of proper threading, I'd argue it is not directly responsive to louie's question.

... and advocated by sites like

That link doesn't work for me (times out). Otherwise I might have cited it in response to Andrea's request for instructions on trimming.

Shal


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Andi,

I am turning beet red just asking this question...However, I have
tried to explain trimming that is not getting me anywhere.

What aspect of it are you having trouble getting across to your group members?

Are they getting stuck on the principles of what you want done, and why it is important? Or is the problem more one of learning how to do it?

I found an excellent 7 minute video on youtube which no one is going
to watch.

I'm curious what you found, care to share the link?

Why won't anyone watch it? Is it simply that 7 minutes is too long? Is the presentation boring or otherwise flawed?

Does anyone have a user friendly explanation for trimming in their
Files section somewhere that they might be willing to share with a
newbie :-)

Or their wiki.

It doesn't look like GMF has anything specifically on that topic, but our Tips and Tricks page for message composition using the group's web page does mention it, and links to a 60-second video example.
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/2934

If any of your members prefer posting via the group's web pages, the above page may be useful to them. GMF's wiki is publicly readable, so feel free to share the link.

For members posting by email you have a tougher situation, as they will be using various email services, each with its own interface, as well as various devices and email client applications. So there can't be a one-size-fits-all how-to that demonstrates trimming step-by-step.

Shal


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Hey everyone,
I am turning beet red just asking this question...However, I have tried to explain trimming that is not getting me anywhere.
I found an excellent 7 minute video on youtube which no one is going to watch. Does anyone have a user friendly explanation
for trimming in their Files section somewhere that they might be willing to share with a newbie :-)

Thank you for your consideration.
--
Warm Regards,
Andi

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 05:13 PM, Louie S wrote:

All topic replies are listed strictly in chronological order of the date/time
the reply was made and no longer refers message that someone replying to.

This is why interspersed replying was invented, and advocated by sites like

Is this a feature of groups.io that I completely missed? Or is it some thing
that needs to be enabled in the group settings?

It is something your members need to do. To prevent digests from becoming indigestable, groups.io removes all quotes below the last unindented line in digests. However, individual messages too become a lot clearer if you indicate to what written by who you are replying

groetjes/?is, Ronaldo

Hi everyone,

I tried searching for this, but couldn't find anything easily.
I have a member who recently joined one of my groups. ?She has tried to respond to messages on the group, but they are not going through to the person who posted the message. She's logging into the groups.io website and clicking on reply and nothing. I've had her try testing it out with me also and I haven't received any of her emails and she's forwarded me the bcc she received. ?Has this happened to anyone else before? ?Any suggestions for what else I can do? ?It's definitely still working for other members.

Thanks!
Linda

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 07:14 AM, Andy Wedge wrote:

On Wed, Oct 17, 2018 at 09:49 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:

Repeatedly visiting the site has no effect on when the cookie expires. Only by logging in again will the cookie "clock" be reset.

According to the Member's Manual section Logging in to your Account, each visit to the website extends the 30 day period.

Andy -- You've quoted me out of context.

In Oct 2018, there was no such thing as a Members Manual, and simply visiting the site did not renew the login cookie.

Regards,
Bruce

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Thank you Andy.

Since the small folder glyph does not appear and the underlined blue link to the moved folder provides a link to the Files main folder, not the moved folder, it appears that our member has inadvertently stumbled into a bug.

The report is in the "Member Activity" list and not in the "Moderator Activity" list as I had expected.

The search function in the Files folder reports a total of 399 subfolders and files, but not one of the several dozen attempts to click on them has produced anything but either the Files main folder or else the error message reported earlier.

This list or erroneous link symptoms seems to indicate, to a long retired software guy, that an incomplete transaction has left some cookie crumbs, but not enough to roll back to a safe condition.

At this time, all efforts to paste in an image or to attach a small screenshot have failed. Probably, since I am still a member under moderation. A member for about two years, but with little or no need to actively request help and not enough knowledge to offer help.

Thanks for the work you guys do.

Cliff

Jeff,

As such, I would like to leave the group intact, and if possible at
the same URL but make the Name just TestGear. Can I do that and nobody
loses any means of posting or reading? If not it is not the end of the
world.

The "name" of a group is a part of both its URL and its email address. Changing one changes the other. But you can change the Group Title.

You can change the Subject Tag of the group, note that this group has the shortened [GMF] in its subject rather than the full group name.

If you decide to change the group's email & URL all is not lost for your members. The web interface will update and continue to show the group in the member's Your Groups lists. And future messages they receive from the group will have the new email address.

The question here; is if any, what are any specific laws or whatever
in the "IO" jurisdiction ?

As Duane said, the .io Top Level Domain is separate from the Groups.io service.

Operating a website in the .io TLD it subjects the site to the rules set forth by the .io administrators, a British company. See the Registration and restrictions section here:


Operating a group in the Groups.io service subjects the group and its members to the Groups.io TOS and the restrictions on what types of groups are permitted.
/static/tos
/helpcenter/faq/1/group-owner-moderator-faq/q-what-types-of-groups-are-not

Can free speech be assumed, ...

No.

Shal


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On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 09:57 AM, Jeff Urban wrote:

First, I would like to rename my group. I had a group just started and o embers ad decided to rename it, could not find a way. Now the name is TestGearNotTekScopes.? I was in a Tek scopes group and do not see eye to eye with the owner, so be no hard feelings, we just have very basic different ideas on what of topic means. As such, I would like to leave the group intact, and if possible at the same URL but make the Name just TestGear. Can I do that and nobody loses any means of posting or reading ? If not it is not the end of the world.

You can change your group's home page description, but you cannot rename your group while keeping the same URL.

/helpcenter/ownersmanual/1/renaming-groups?

Another thing is I want to start a political group here. Now I now the basics, I usually don't even have to read the rules because it is all usually the same. And of course I know not to let anyone directly threaten the President, or actually anyone, but especially world leaders.

The question here;? is if any, what are any specific laws or whatever in the "IO" jurisdiction ?

Groups.io may have a "foreign" top-level domain but is hosted in the United States and is subject to all US laws.

Can free speech be assumed, as long as it is not really wrong, like threats or whatever ?

Groups are vetted for compliance with the Terms of Service ( /static/tos?). Groups that deal in sedition or fringe conspiracy theories like QAnon or pizzagate are not allowed. Aside from that, I have seen nothing to suggest that political discussions are discouraged.?

I am all for anything else goes, and as far as putting down the IO, what possible reason could anyone have for that ?

The group I have is small and uses almost no resources. But the US is desperate for a new venue. There is a social one that will not toe the line that they won't host there in the US. Called Parler. Did nothing wrong but did not agree to use the same rules as Facebook and the others.

So while I want my group here, is there a way to just get hosting in IO ? Anywhere dot IO. Maybe whoever osts you, unless you do it yourself. If so, wanna make a few bucks ?

I'm afraid that I don't understand the point of all this.

Also, if my new group really takes off I will pay you. I know you want something after so many MB or whatever but there is also voluntary, right ?. we need a really free open forum that badly in the US that I am willing to pay, and if my cheapskate ass is willing to pay so are others.

The above text is borderline, and as a Moderator I almost rejected it. Please keep your discourse civil.?

No one in GMF is involved in the workings of groups.io. We are a community-supported help group. As a member of GMF since May of 2018, I'm surprised that you don't already know that.

To your question:? Free groups are available. See?/static/pricing? If your group meets the "free group" range of membership and storage requirements within the pricing structure there is no charge. What may happen if your group grows outside of that is entirely at your own prerogative.

Regards,
Bruce

---

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On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 08:57 AM, Jeff Urban wrote:

So while I want my group here, is there a way to just get hosting in IO ? Anywhere dot IO.

.io is a top level domain (TLD) that anyone can use.? You'd need to buy the domain you want to use, if it isn't already owned, from one of the companies that sell them, then pay for hosting on a service that offers it.? With some companies, such as GoDaddy, you can do both.

Duane
--
Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.

On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 02:57 PM, Jeff Urban wrote:

First, I would like to rename my group.

There are ramifications to renaming a group so I strongly recommend you read the Owner's Manual section on Renaming Groups first

Another thing is I want to start a political group here.

I'd recommend you also read the Groups.io Terms of Service which clearly state what is and what isn't acceptable.

Andy

First, I would like to rename my group. I had a group just started and o embers ad decided to rename it, could not find a way. Now the name is TestGearNotTekScopes.? I was in a Tek scopes group and do not see eye to eye with the owner, so be no hard feelings, we just have very basic different ideas on what of topic means. As such, I would like to leave the group intact, and if possible at the same URL but make the Name just TestGear. Can I do that and nobody loses any means of posting or reading ? If not it is not the end of the world.

Another thing is I want to start a political group here. Now I now the basics, I usually don't even have to read the rules because it is all usually the same. And of course I know not to let anyone directly threaten the President, or actually anyone, but especially world leaders.

The question here;? is if any, what are any specific laws or whatever in the "IO" jurisdiction ? Can free speech be assumed, as long as it is not really wrong, like threats or whatever ? I am all for anything else goes, and as far as putting down the IO, what possible reason could anyone have for that ?

The group I have is small and uses almost no resources. But the US is desperate for a new venue. There is a social one that will not toe the line that they won't host there in the US. Called Parler. Did nothing wrong but did not agree to use the same rules as Facebook and the others.

So while I want my group here, is there a way to just get hosting in IO ? Anywhere dot IO. Maybe whoever osts you, unless you do it yourself. If so, wanna make a few bucks ?

Also, if my new group really takes off I will pay you. I know you want something after so many MB or whatever but there is also voluntary, right ?. we need a really free open forum that badly in the US that I am willing to pay, and if my cheapskate ass is willing to pay so are others.

Thanx for your time.

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 11:20 PM, Deborah Cohen wrote:

Each time I log in to my group I have to agree to except cookies

That tells me that Safari isn't saving the cookies.? Dig around in the settings and you'll eventually find the source of the problem.

Duane
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Lots of detailed information can be found in the Owners Manual and Members Manual.