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Mike,

Generally, the message sent from Groups.io to notify them that they
have been removed is in their spam folder where they may never see it.

True, that's fairly likely.

I think in that message the member should be encouraged to go look for the Groups.io notice, mark it "not spam" and use it to _resume_ their membership.

As Ken mentioned (in another topic) this helps ensure that they "resume" their membership, with their role, privileges and settings intact; which is usually desirable as opposed to starting over by re-joining the group.*
/g/GroupManagersForum/message/31568

Also this is good practice for marking group messages as "not spam"; something they should be checking periodically in the future.

Shal
*Some reports indicate that Groups.io may actually "resume" a membership after this event even if the user re-joins or is re-added by a moderator. But I haven't tested that. Possibly that applies only to Premium groups, where information about removed members is kept in a Prior Members list.


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On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 07:14 PM, Ken Cameron wrote:

From what I've seen as owner or moderator on lists, you aren't really
removed from the list but only from being sent things from the list.

Ken -- My experience does not bear this out. It seems to me that the FBL mechanism actually removes you...but only from that one group.

For example, a log entry to that effect is generated:

Your account is no longer listed among the active subscriptions, you no longer receive emails, and you cannot access Photos, Files, or any other online content in that group. You may be able to read messages online, but only if the group's message archive is public.

Your name is retained in the member list only as a Past member, with a status of "spam left." Only after you click the link in the "resume subscription" link in the notification email are you moved back to the regular membership list.

Anyway, hope this helps.

Bruce

---

Check out the new groups.io Help Center?and?groups.io Owners Manual

Nivard,

But if I Bcc a particular message to several groups I own, I receive a
copy of each

That's something I don't think I had tested, but I'm glad to see that it works.

Am I missing something ?

I believe it means that your checkmark in the "I always want copies of my own emails" box is working.

In particular it means that the replaced Message-ID is different from each of those groups. Which makes sense in that the replacement is being done on the outbound side - only you receive the replaced Message-ID, all the other members of those groups receive the original Message-Id that Gmail generated for your sent message.

For you, a Gmail user, this differs from when someone else multi-posts a message: you get the original Message-ID generated by the sender's service from each group. Groups.io didn't check for this case.

Shal


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Michael,

Actually 2 are sent, 1 with the 'prefix' "Upcoming Event:, and 1
without.

Correct. One reminder, one notice.

Is the 'ghost' one of them?
Which one?

The one that has the Upcoming Event prefix is the "ghost". I didn't like that prefix (it didn't seem to me to fit with the body of the message) so I removed the reminder from the event. But it continues to be sent.

The 'prefix' "Upcoming Event: " is still ridiculous and essentially
meaningless.

Its only excuse is that it is a clue that the event is not happening now, that this email message is a reminder of an upcoming event. That distinguishes it from the notice which is sent at the scheduled start time of the event.

That said, I never thought it was needed. I agree with Andy that the #cal-reminder hashtag is sufficient to let the members know that this is a reminder and not the start of the event.

Shal


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From what I've seen as owner or moderator on lists, you aren't really
removed from the list but only from being sent things from the list. When
you respond to the drop message it knows all the groups and rights you had
before and all is back to normal.

-Ken Cameron, Member JMRI Dev Team
www.jmri.org
www.fingerlakeslivesteamers.org
www.cnymod.org
www.syracusemodelrr.org

Shal . . .

On Sun, 3 May 2020 12:39:13 -0700, "Shal Farley" <shals2nd@...>
wrote:

But an email user who doesn't know about their Spam folder and how to
use it is a bit more shocking, that's been a commonplace feature in
email interfaces for so long now.

Roadrunner email has the spam filter on their web site. If you're
using an email client, you don't see it.

It is visible on their web interface, though. Many don't ever use the
web interface and rely on their client for email reading and sending.

I found it on their site and found that I had email I wanted stuck in
that folder. I was able to choose from three options to either send
all email, send all but suspected spam email, or send all email but
mark suspected spam as such in the subject line appended to the
beginning of the subject line. I chose the latter and deal with spam
myself, also using my email client's spam filter, which I can let it
learn from dragging spam into the junk folder or I can set up filters
based on matching certain things in the headers.

Donald


----------------------------------------------------
Some ham radio groups you may be interested in:
/g/ICOM
/g/Ham-Antennas
/g/HamRadioHelp

Larry,

scroll down to Spam Blacklist Lookup and enter one of groups.io
IP addresses such as 173.255.221.194.

The only Groups.io address that matters for this purpose is 66.175.222.12 - their outbound email server.

Until such time as they use more than one outbound address, but I don't know if that will ever happen. With a cloud-based architecture such as Groups.io uses the actual servers are behind the cloud vendor's network interface, and I believe any number of physical and/or virtual servers might go outbound through that one address.

Shal


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If your "fundraising moderator" was ambitious it's possible that his own email provider might label him as a spammer. when one starts sending a few hundred emails of very similar content, one can quickly get labeled as a spammer.
To avoid this, use one of the commercial email services that provide free accounts.
Mailchimp allows up to 20o0 contacts in their free account.
--

Bob Bellizzi

Donald,

This is something that doesn't seem to be well implemented. Plenty of
people have no idea it exists, as well as many don't even know there's
a hidden spam folder (for some email services).

That few would know about the FBL mechanism isn't surprising, its operation is intended to be "behind the scenes". And I suspect in most cases it is - when the user in question really didn't care about messages from that list anymore.

But an email user who doesn't know about their Spam folder and how to use it is a bit more shocking, that's been a commonplace feature in email interfaces for so long now.

Users of mobile devices may face a more difficult learning curve. The Spam folder may or may not be easy to find in the tiny user interface. I find the Android app for Gmail only barely usable for managing misdirected messages and defer such action until I'm at the webmail interface.

I stumbled upon mine when I wasn't receiving emails I was expecting.
But the cable company doesn't tell you about it. At least not in a way
that I took notice of. The information is hidden somewhere on their
web site.

Users of client software on their computer likewise. The Spam folder may or may not be exposed in the user interface by default, or may not be accessible at all (users of POP clients) without going to the service's webmail interface. Also, I'm never sure with a given email service if using IMAP to move messages between Spam and Inbox actually signals the "spam" and "not spam" training of the service's filter.

I suppose too that the better services' spam filters may be victims of their own success - they strive to have no false positives (desired mail quarantined) and no false negatives (undesired mail in the Inbox) and to the extent they succeed then their users don't need to do anything. Action is only required when the automatic filter makes a mistake.

Shal


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On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 02:05 PM, SP4149 wrote:

The moderator was removed because a message was marked as spam.

Correct.? If their email provider uses FBL that is reported to GIO, they'll be removed.

Can owners also be removed automatically?

Yes.

I don't want owners/moderators to be automatically removed from a list,

We don't have any say in the matter.? The most we can do is use an email service that seldom, if ever, arbitrarily decides to mark messages from GIO as spam.? There's some good information at /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Removed-for-spam

Duane
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The official Groups.io user documentation is in the Groups.io Help Center.
GMF's Unofficial Help Wiki: /g/GroupManagersForum/wiki

On a fair sized list I co-own, over 1500 subscribers. The moderator was removed because a message was marked as spam.
Now this moderator has been the one raising the funds for the Premium status of the list.
Automatically removing a moderator is distrubing; the next question is Can owners also be removed automatically?
I remained a co-owner after transferring the list from YG, just to help the list owner with ADMIN hiccups like this.
I don't want owners/moderators to be automatically removed from a list, at least an intermediate, verification step is
needed before removal.
--
ken clark

www.shastasprings.com

I would suggest sending an email to them from your account letting them know that they've been un-enrolled from your group as either their email application or ISP thought it was spam.? Sending it from you account and not via Groups.io is an attempt to get the email delivered, if their provider considers Groups.io email as spam.

Generally, the message sent from Groups.io to notify them that they have been removed is in their spam folder where they may never see it.

Regards,
Mike

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 07:53 AM, iowagold2020 wrote:

change the group settings to web only view and web only post.

There are no such settings, though some people have requested them.

Duane
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On May 2nd Chris Jones asked If they were common providers involved with unsubscription due to marking mail as spam.
The providers were:
Comcast, AOL, Yahoo, Windstream
All except Comcast have been guilty in the past of pushing emails into the spam folders. I understand why Comcast is now added to the list.
I think I read somewhere that many services subscribe to spam filters produced by someone. Obviously something changed in the last few days affecting AOL and Yahoo.?

change the group settings to web only view and web only post.
and not have your group as an email group.
they can still copy and paste the message to an email..
but that can be the copy write bad thing.

make sure you have it in words or writing in your groups rules page.
same on photo's as well you can water mark them to not reproduce.
--
Thanks Paul in Iowa
see my groups at?

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 07:31 AM, Michael Pavan wrote:

The 'prefix' "Upcoming Event: " is still ridiculous and essentially meaningless.

Agreed.? These reminders already have the #cal-reminder hashtag so this is really unnecessary.

Andy

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 07:17 AM, Shal Farley wrote:

I wish I had faith that deleting the event would kill the ghost, but I don't.

In June last year I reported a problem to Mark (ticket 9168) where reminders were being issued for calendar events that did not show reminders were defined. Mark deleted the ghost reminders and said he was working to fix the bug. Perhaps it's work in progress :-)

Andy

But if I Bcc a particular message to several groups I own, I receive a copy of each

Am I missing something ?


Nivard Ovington in Cornwall (UK)

Shal,

On May 2, 2020, at 2:16 AM, Shal Farley <shals2nd@...> wrote:

You may have noticed that GMF has been sending one of each for the last several months.

Actually 2 are sent, 1 with the 'prefix' "Upcoming Event:, and 1 without.

That resulted from my attempt to switch from using a reminder to using the notice (the notice checkbox didn't exist when I first set up this event, nor did the subject prefix). Alas there was a bug at that time and deleting the Reminder did not stop it from being sent. That bug has since been fixed, but I wasn't able get Mark's attention long enough to evict the "ghost" reminder from wherever it is lodged.

I wish I had faith that deleting the event would kill the ghost, but I don't.

Is the 'ghost' one of them?
Which one?

The 'prefix' "Upcoming Event: " is still ridiculous and essentially meaningless.


Michael