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Re: Define terms

Sandi D.
 

Unfortunately we can't rely on everyone intuiting every term to mean the same thing.

I appreciate the clarification of terms and their definitions and anyone willing to update update the wiki to promote greater understanding. It took me months of reading GMF posts to get a good handle on GIO. The Yahoo exodus was a great help to me as many of their questions repeatedly exposed me to the same GMF wiki but in various contexts. I learned more in the past two months of GMF posts?than I have since joining GIO and studying the Wiki.?

I wouldn't say GIO terms and user actions are the easiest to comprehend. GMF postings have been my key to understanding much of what's in the wiki.

What Michael wrote made sense to me.?I had also separated members who have never logged in from members who have. I have seen posters asking for clarification if the user has ever logged in or not. Perhaps a term would help clarify between those two actions. Perhaps not. Newbies with questions aren't likely to know all the "correct term definitions" so their posted problem might not be correctly reflected by the terms they use.?

Reading Shal's response gave me new insights into where I had wrongly interpreted a definition or action. That I can use the terms members and subscribers interchangeably. Reinforcing once again that a post can be made to a group by a person who has not joined that group.

No matter how tightly terms are defined, it seems to me that GIO is open and fluid in ways that other groups platforms are not. And that fluidity likely contributes to more complex problem solving.?

--
Sandi Dickenson
Moderator of ASG Volunteers Group


Re: How Calendar Event Reminders are handled based on an individual's Subscription settings #subscription

 

Bruce (or Mod.) Please clarify for me as I agree, the Reminder options are quite granular:
  1. How are event reminders handled with respect to an individual's Subscription setting?
    • I am seeing people receive a "30 minute prior to" a day late on low volume groups, the result of their Subscription setting. Time zones are set correctly.
  2. How are Special Notices handled with respect to an individual's Subscription setting?
    • Would this override a Subscription setting to send immediately?
Thank you for your support and advice. HNY, Howard


Re: Email merge

Gerald Boutin
 

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 10:44 AM, Sandi D. wrote:
On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 04:30 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Yes. That will happen if you attempt to log in with a different email address?without logging out first.
I routinely do this with two browsers. Both retain my login, each under a different email. I have never seen a screen or message asking if I wanted to merge my accounts. I have not yet been successful in logging into the same browser under both emails at the same time and didn't know that was possible.?

Thanks for the warning.?
?
--
Sandi Dickenson
Moderator of ASG Volunteers Group
Sandi,

I also am logged in with different logins on different browsers. I also have never seen a request to merge accounts. In that case, GIO has no way of knowing if it was even the same person logging in, so I would not expect anything sinister to happen.

I have also tried logging in on the same browser with two different login accounts. Since there is no way that i could find to login in on the initial logged in page without first doing a logout, I go to a new browser tab to try this. All that happened was that the first login instance was changed to the second account. There was no suggestion to merge accounts.

The initial instance browser page was not updated and there was no messages given that anything had changed until I attempted to click on links on that page. Because the page was not updated, links on the page were to messages from the first login instance and clicking on them would give a popup saying that I was not subscribed to that group. That part is a bit confusing at first, but since I have seen it several times now, I knew to do a browser refresh and that updated me to messages in the newly logged in account.

I have tried this again and verified that there is no offer to merge accounts. Perhaps there is some other sequence to cause that to happen, but I have not come across it yet.

--
Gerald

P.S.: I also tried one more thing before posting this message and that was opening up a second instance of the same browser (Chrome) and logging in there with a different account. Once again, there was no offer to merge accounts. This test did do some strange things to the initial browser instance including seemingly deleting my draft for this post. However, I was ready for this possibility and had already saved my own copy of the draft outside of the browser. In this case, it wasn't necessary, as after I logged out of the second browser instance, my initial draft again became available in the first Chrome browser instance.


Re: Bounced and bouncing members

 

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 08:16 AM, M. A. Gormez wrote:
I want to know the difference between bounced (red B) and bouncing (blue B) members.
Michel -- Red B means groups.io has given up attempting to send emails to that address. See the system help (/static/help#bouncing) for details.

Bruce


Re: Email merge

Sandi D.
 

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 04:30 PM, Bruce Bowman wrote:
Yes. That will happen if you attempt to log in with a different email address?without logging out first.
I routinely do this with two browsers. Both retain my login, each under a different email. I have never seen a screen or message asking if I wanted to merge my accounts. I have not yet been successful in logging into the same browser under both emails at the same time and didn't know that was possible.?

Thanks for the warning.?
?
--
Sandi Dickenson
Moderator of ASG Volunteers Group


Re: Email merge

 

Hi Bruce et al,

If you merge 2 email addresses and the emaIl address which is deactivated is the only owner of a group, then I think that should be prevented with a message. The message should prompt you to go back to the group or groups where you are the owner and promote one of the moderators (or a member) to owner, before attempting this merge again. The fact that you can do this at the moment is sort of a bug, in my opinion, and should be reported to support so some code can be added to the "merge email accounts" function to prevent a group becoming orphaned. Do you agree?

By the way, I noticed the use of inactivate earlier in this thread. I think deactivate is more appropriate, but I am a Brit so my English may be different. See here for a comparison of the meanings of the 2 words and I think you will agree that deactivate is better in this context :-
If you agree with the usage of deactivate, I will volunteer to amend the Wiki.

Regards
John Russell


Bounced and bouncing members

 

Hello,

I want to know the difference between bounced (red B) and bouncing (blue B) members.

Thank you.

Michel?


Re: Define terms

 

Michael,

"Subscriber" is an email address that has not logged in to a Groups.io
group (interacts with email)
...
"Member" is an email address that has logged in to a Groups.io group
In Groups.io there is no distinction between a subscriber that has logged in to the site and one that hasn't yet. Hence Subscriber and Member as you've described them are the same.

This stems from the fact that creating the subscription caused the automatic creation of a corresponding account for that email address, if there wasn't one already. And with the account came the ability to log in - whether the person has done so yet or not is purely circumstantial (and inconsequential).

STATUS is another further user definition:
I don't think you're adding clarity by lumping together as Status many different types of things.

"Not Confirmed", "Bouncing",
Those two (along with "Bounced") are user Statuses, they apply to the email address across all of its subscriptions, and are applied to the address by the system.

"Pending Approval", "Banned";
Those two are (non)member Statuses. They apply to a specific address in a specific group based on the settings of the group and the actions (or inactions) of its moderators.

"Moderated", "New User Moderated", "Cannot Post", Moderate First",
"Moderate Topics",
These are Posting Privileges, assigned to the subscription by the group moderators, or in the case of New User Moderated, by a group setting.

"Following only", "Following Only w/ First Message
Also", and "Auto Follow Replies"
These are Messages Selection options. They apply to each subscription and are under the subscriber's control as well as the moderators.

It seems many questions are caused by it not being clear if an email
address is not logged in or not (or its status),
I don't see how that's relevant to a group moderator. Any given member might log in or out at any given moment, on one or more devices. Myself, I'm typically logged in at all times on three devices - my phone, laptop, and desktop. But at a given moment I might be asleep or otherwise not paying attention to those devices.

Every term should be explained when hovered over or at least have a
WIKI entry.
The top of the Help page has a short glossary. You could suggest additions to it, or write a Glossary page for GMF's wiki.

Shal


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Re: yG Privacy Dashboard download #yahooprivacydashboard #ioimportpl

 

On Sat, Dec 28, 2019 at 12:15 AM, Bryan Jones wrote:

I've set the new user as unmoderated for both the subgroup
first address in fromto.txt must be unmoderated
Download memberlist.csv again. If again the same error message then email me the line from memberlist.csv with that email address.

--
Lena


Define terms

 

Unfortunately we can't rely on everyone intuiting every term to mean the same thing.
The more terms are used with different meanings, greater miscommunication is likely.

All terms should have one distinct meaning (not multiple meanings).
If we all use the same terms to mean the same thing, less confusion and misunderstanding should occur.

The lower the level of technical understanding is presumed (and therefore accommodated), the more users will understand Groups.io and the more successful it can be.


But it brings up the question of what is a subscriber versus not a
subscriber.
It is confusing to many that the words "subscriber" and "member" are used interchangeably.

EMAIL ADDRESSES (users)
There are three different ways email addresses (people) are involved with Groups.io
I propose these 3 definitions (as a start):

"Account Holder" is an email address registered with Groups.io

"Subscriber" is an email address that has not logged in to a Groups.io group (interacts with email)
(All group Subscribers are also Groups.io Account Holders)

"Member" is an email address that has logged in to a Groups.io group
(All group Members are also group Subscribers and Groups.io Account Holders)


ROLE is a further user definition:
"Role" (Group Role) as viewed at a Group's Member List currently can be "Member", "Moderator", or "Owner".

STATUS is another further user definition:
"Not Confirmed", "Pending Approval", "Bouncing", "Banned"; "Moderated", "New User Moderated", "Cannot Post", Moderate First", "Moderate Topics", "Following only", "Following Only w/ First Message Also", and "Auto Follow Replies" are Statuses


It seems many questions are caused by it not being clear if an email address is not logged in or not (or its status),
(and many others are caused by not knowing which email address is in use)
perhaps "Member" should be changed to "Subscriber" when that email address is not logged in,
so that Moderators (with view Member List privileges) and Owners can recognize the distinction, and may be better able to help.

It could also be useful to designate whether a Moderator or Owner is not logged in.
Their Role could then be noted in a different color (grayed out?)
or as "subModerator" and "subOwner" OR "sub Moderator" and "sub Owner"...



Every term should be explained when hovered over or at least have a WIKI entry.
(Account Holder, Subscriber, Member; Role, Moderator, Owner; Home, Subscription, Admin, Pending, Members (in the group page's left column should be Member Lists?), Invite, Integrations, Settings, Promote, Subgroups, Activity, Upgrade, Messages, Topics, Hashtags, New Topic, New Poll, Chats, Directory, Calendar, Photos, Files, Databases, Wiki; Account, User, Preferences, Email Delivery, Signature, Advanced Preferences, Notifications; Status, "Not Confirmed", "Pending Approval", "Bouncing", "Banned"; "Moderated", "New User Moderated", "Cannot Post", Moderate First", "Moderate Topics", "Following only", "Following Only w/ First Message Also", "Auto Follow Replies"; etc, etc)


Re: Not receiving copies of messages as owner

 

Richard,

Maybe he has found a way to hack me out.
There is no such capability in Groups.io.

When a message posts to the group whether you receive it depends on your settings, and your email service, not on anything the posting member can do.

I can fix it by setting him to Moderated, but that is not the
solution.
Correct, it is not.

Shal


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Re: Not receiving copies of messages as owner

 

Richard,

I do not get the e-mail from one person when he posts to the free
Group.
His messages do appear in the Messages in the proper Topic.
There is no combination of settings that would cause this. So there must be something else going on that hasn't been identified. If his messages aren't going to your Spam folder, then perhaps your email service is rejecting them for some reason.

Or, just by chance, he's posting only to topics or hashtags which you've muted. But it seems unlikely that you've muted any.

I had the Setting set to get messages from subscribers only.
(second one on the list)
As I mentioned, that control has nothing to do with messages posted to the group. It controls only messages sent to the group's +owner address.

The person must be a subscriber since he has been a Group member even
when it was a Yahoo Group .
If the person uses a different email address now than then it could be that he is not subscribed under his new address. Or, if his address was listed as bouncing in the Yahoo Group it would not have been copied by the transfer agent. But given that his posts do appear in Messages it is likely that he is subscribed to the group.

Can non-subscribers post messages? I did not think so.
Only if the group has checked the box in Settings to allow it.

I have all notification boxes checked.
Those also will have no effect on your receipt of group postings.

Shal


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Re: Not receiving copies of messages as owner

 

Richard,

I had my messages and e-mail (a Yahoo provider) settings as Mr.
McMurtry showed, except that I had set the short list to messages sent
by subscribers.
The Owner Email section refers to messages sent to the group's +owner address, not to the group's posting address.

But it brings up the question of what is a subscriber versus not a
subscriber.
A subscriber (member) is any address in your group's Members list.

If only subscribers can post he must be a subscriber.
There is a checkbox in the group's settings that controls whether non-subscriber addresses can post to the group.

Non-subscribers can always send to the group's -owner address, but each owner/moderator can select whether to receive such messages, or those from Subscribers Only.

I've always been confused about subscribers versus members.
Duane said:

Technically, a member is someone that has a GIO account, a subscriber
is someone that has joined a group.
In Groups.io every address subscribed to a group has (perforce) a Groups.io account associated with it. The holder of that address may be referred to as either a group member or subscriber, interchangeably.

It is possible for an email address have a Groups.io account without being subscribed to any groups. I don't think there is any specific word for that situation, though saying that such a person is a Groups.io member (rather than a member of any specific group) might be as good a description as any. Such a person does not have access to any group's content (other than content that is open to the public) or posting rights in any group.

Shal



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Re: yG Privacy Dashboard download #yahooprivacydashboard #ioimportpl

 

Lena,

I've created a subgroup.? I've subscribed a new user.? I've set the new user as unmoderated for both the subgroup and the main group.? I've created the "fromto.txt" file, containing the subscribed user email address and the subgroup email address.? I know the perl script is reading that file correctly, because if I use an email address that isn't in the "memberlist.csv" file, it fails with an error:
Use of uninitialized value within %ml in pattern match (m//) at ioimport.pl line 112, <ADDR> line 1.

But when I do have the email of the subscribed user correct, I always get this message on invoking the perl script:
first address in fromto.txt must be unmoderated

This may not explicitly be an issue with the perl script, but with my configuration of the user and/or subgroup... but I ask you, as the creator of the script, to help - what particularly is being checked in the user or subgroup configuration that is generating this error?



Re: Email merge

 

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 01:36 PM, W8RMV wrote:
I had two different emails for different groups.
So I tried to sign in to a group with an email different than that registered.
I got a pop up that offered to MERGE all the groups under the email I entered.
Yes. That will happen if you attempt to log in with a different email address?without logging out first.

I accepted but never received the confirmatory email as indicated by this statement:
"An email has been sent to with a link that, when clicked, will cause the accounts to be merged and this account to be deleted."
The email with the link was sent to the destination address (the one you manually entered while still logged in under the other one). So be sure you check the correct email address.

The wiki entry at?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Profile-and-Email-Address-and-Merging-Accounts%2C-Subscription?contains step-by-step instructions and should be correct. As Frances said, I went through this exercise just a month ago.

Please take careful note which address you are merging away from ("originating address") and which one you are merging into ("destination address"). If the originating address owns a group, merging away from it is a good way to lose that ownership. Be very sure you know what you're doing before you go down this road.?

Bruce


Re: Email merge

 

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 01:44 PM, Frances wrote:

From the GMF wiki, different instructions:

Merging Accounts
?
?If anyone has tried merging accounts recently, please share your experience. The wiki instructions were just described by Bruce a couple of months ago.?
Is the other way active and usable? Or just an artefact leftover from development?

Frances
--
Moving to Groups.io (without easy transfer)


GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers


Re: Not receiving copies of messages as owner

Gerald Boutin
 

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 09:38 AM, ray_r.rm wrote:
Not going to SPAM folder.
I scan everything in there and delete frequently.
His posts do appear in the Messages list on the Group page.
Maybe he has found a way to hack me out.
I can fix it by setting him to Moderated, but that is not the solution.

Next time the person posts, I will report here on whether I got the e-mail.
Thanks,
Richard
Richard,

I think you may be misunderstanding some of the suggestions that have been given to you. (Either that or I am misunderstanding your problem!)

1. Email Delivery settings are what you should be looking at. They are the settings that determine what group messages you will receive via email to your personal email account. This should be set to "Individual Messages".

Notifications / Owner Email are settings for messages that go to the [email protected]. Those messages are not the ones that show up with the regular messages list where you say you are not receiving an email copy of messages from a specific subscriber. In other words, these settings have nothing to do with receiving regular group messages.

2. You have been advised to look at your "Email Delivery History". Do that.?It is found near the top of the page that shows your subscription settings.
?
That is where there will be a record of "Recent Bounces" and "Most Recent Unsuccessful Attempt" for email deliveries. If there is a post that is getting to others, but not you then there should be a record of what went wrong when trying to deliver it to your email address.


--
Gerald


Re: Email merge

 

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 01:36 PM, W8RMV wrote:
I had two different emails for different groups.
So I tried to sign in to a group with an email different than that registered.
I got a pop up that offered to MERGE all the groups under the email I entered.
I accepted but never received the confirmatory email as indicated by this statement:
"An email has been sent to with a link that, when clicked, will cause the accounts to be merged and this account to be deleted."

Next steps?

Has the email gone to spam?
Have you tried logging in?

Be very careful - you don't want to lose your owner status.

From the GMF wiki, different instructions:

Merging Accounts
If you have two or more accounts, you lose the advantage of seeing all messages from your groups in one list using Your Groups and managing muted or followed topics and hashtags. You can merge the accounts.
(Do it one email address at a time!)
?
Below are the steps necessary to perform an account merge.
?
1) Log into the account that you want to inactivate. If you don't know how to log in, instructions can be found here.
/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Logging-In
2) Pull down the menu at top right and select Account (or browse to /account)
3) In the "Email" field at the top of the page, enter the address you want to merge into (i.e.: overwriting what is already there).
4) Click the "Change Email" button.
5) Groups.io will notify you of the fact that the account already exists, and ask if you want to merge them.?
6) Click the blue button below this notification to confirm your intent to merge.
7) An email will be sent to the destination email address.?
8) Clicking on the link in that email will again take you to the login page.
9) Log in under the destination email address, using either the account password or the "email me a link" button.
10) Click on the blue button to complete the merge.?
?
If for any reason you can't log into either of the two accounts, the merge is not possible.

Frances
?
--
Moving to Groups.io (without easy transfer)


GMF Wiki: (unofficial) Help for members (and would-be members) and group managers


Email merge

 

I had two different emails for different groups.
So I tried to sign in to a group with an email different than that registered.
I got a pop up that offered to MERGE all the groups under the email I entered.
I accepted but never received the confirmatory email as indicated by this statement:
"An email has been sent to with a link that, when clicked, will cause the accounts to be merged and this account to be deleted."

Next steps?

-Thanx - Bob


Re: Not receiving copies of messages as owner

 

Not going to SPAM folder.
I scan everything in there and delete frequently.
His posts do appear in the Messages list on the Group page.
Maybe he has found a way to hack me out.
I can fix it by setting him to Moderated, but that is not the solution.

Next time the person posts, I will report here on whether I got the e-mail.
Thanks,
Richard