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Re: Email to owner's address went to group instead

 

Thank you, that's really helpful. I don't understand the stuff about DMARC, why the addresses show llike that, but I guess that's a different question and maybe in the FAQs.

On the header, thanks to you I've now found it on io and obviously it's very long, but the relevant bit seems (to me) to be:

Received: from pc ([redacted]) by re-prd-rgout-002.btmx-prd.synchronoss.net (5.8.335.01) (authenticated as c[redacted]@btinternet.com)
        id 5D3F8C8B012CEA2B; Fri, 9 Aug 2019 08:27:28 +0100
From: "CHRISTINE [redacted]" <c[redacted]@btinternet.com>
To: "'Trista Selous'" <trista.selous@...>,
	"'Catherine [redacted]'" <c[redacted]@societyofauthors.org>
Cc: "'TA email group moderators'" <[email protected]>
References: <CWLP265MB089903FBE4796C13D5B4E730D8D40@...> <2F119B34-F184-4F25-A38B-5FF9B14B3236@...> <[email protected]> <CWLP265MB08993D1E22AB04D439067C28D8D70@...> <52366A5A-4DA0-431D-BA99-7851B7F065C6@...>
In-Reply-To: <52366A5A-4DA0-431D-BA99-7851B7F065C6@...>
I don't see any mention of the group address anywhere in the other stuff either.? I've done a search.

On the other hand, I did eventually find it as the destination of any response (but not in the from line) on the actual email, which arrived with a header like this:



Sorry, computer speaks French, but as you can see, "?:" is the "From" line and then there's this weird "R¨¦pondre ¨¤:" (Reply to) line, which doesn't usually appear. Having now checked through my emails fairly extensively, I think the answer has to be that Christine sent this via the group address, but in that case, wouldn't the group address show somewhere in the full header?

I'm more used to yahoo email group full headers, where the group address always did show. Never had to check an io one before!


[some personal info redacted by moderator]
Re: re deleting photos

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Since that is the way it works, the next time I find this situation in a member¡¯s photo album, I¡¯ll take a look at all of their activity concerning their album. If I can¡¯t find any deletion of pictures in that member¡¯s album (only additions), but the issue still exists, I guess I¡¯ll be back for more ideas about this.

?

Don
Re: FAIL: email posting to group

Jonesy W3DHJ
 

> I'm going to do some low level testing via telnet to port 25 in to the groups.io MTA from....
>? -? first my vps (in the 45.13.66.0/24 CIDR)
>? -? second from my workstation (on Comcast's 71.205.0.0/16 CIDR)
> ... and report back.? Real Soon Now.

Silly me.? It's been years since I did any MTA checking via telnet.
And, the internet has devolved into a darker place since then.? :-)
Both my ISP and Comcast block port 25 (with Good Reason.)
So, I cannot see that I have any further testing options on my end..

All I can do is add recent input from my ISP:
"I can reach them from the firewalls, so it's not the data center on our side that's blocking."
"The IP's directly before our network are 192.228.109.226/30 and 192.228.109.234/30. Those are? ?owned by VegasNAP which is our direct upstream."
...and his query:
"Are you sure Linode is not firewaling inbound connections from us,
? or from our upstream providers?"

Jonesy
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?
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Re: Email to owner's address went to group instead

 

Trista,


The relevant message triggered a new thread, for which I can only view full gobbledygook for the most recent message, which was not the problem message.

As a group owner/mod you should be able to use the View Source item in the More menu under the message in the group's Messages section - unless you've already deleted it from there.

Another place to check would be the group's Activity log. A message post (in an unmoderated circumstance) would show as:

Member email sent message #nnn, Subject via email
versus
Member email sent message Subject to owners via email
Where the member's email is a link to the member's subscription page, and the Subject is a link to the message.


That said scrolling down the raw version of the thread, the "to" line of the problem message shows the owner's address 
> *Cc:* 'TA email group moderators' <[email protected]>

Interesting that it was a CC. And no other CC or To fields listed for that message?

Still, the group's posting address could have been a BCC, which wouldn't be seen by any recipient.

The "from" line shows the group address, but I think that's normal for any message going through the group in some way.

Um no. Group message postings usually carry the From address of the sending member. With the exception of services (like yours) that require it to be rewritten for DMARC; in which case it comes out as

From: "Display Name via Groups.io" <user=@>
(where the italics are generic for the actual member's info)

Shal


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Re: Email to owner's address went to group instead

 

Thanks for your replies. Your scepticism mirrors my own, but if someone sends a message to the wrong address by accident, as can easily happen, it's usually easy to spot.

I'm familiar with viewing full headers. However, my email program doesn't seem to allow me to look at the full headers for individual emails any more. The relevant message triggered a new thread, for which I can only view full gobbledygook for the most recent message, which was not the problem message. That said scrolling down the raw version of the thread, the "to" line of the problem message shows the owner's address 
> *Cc:* 'TA email group moderators' <[email protected]>
and no sign of the group address. However, I received the message only via the group address. The other odd thing is, it was actually part of an ongoing conversation, which had been going through the owner's address until that point.

The "from" line shows the group address, but I think that's normal for any message going through the group in some way.
Re: Replying From the Owner Email

 
Edited

Marcio,

?
How would I go about setting up that account?
You quoted the answer below.


Thunderbird can handle multiple different email accounts. If you have more than one account set up, when composing a reply there's a dropdown in the From field in the compose window and there you can choose any of your accounts.?
But when I try to set up a different one from my own email, for example, the message won't be sent no matter what I do :(
Is this what you are talking about?

That wasn't me, but in Thunderbird each account you use for sending must be linked to one of your valid SMTP configurations. In the first page of the Account's settings you can set the Email Address, and at the bottom the Outgoing Server (SMTP). In that drop-list pick the outgoing service you wish to use (typically the one for your primary email address).
?
On the Server Settings page for that account uncheck every form of checking for new messages, and you can leave the POP or IMAP server information blank - as there is no server from which you can retrieve +owner messages.
?
Having done this success is not guaranteed. Your chosen outgoing service may reject messages you send with an alternate From address; and the destination service may reject messages that use this kind of spoofing.
?
?
In Yahoo Mail it is in the Mailboxes tab of the More Settings page, under Send-only email address.
Hmmm, I guess that's what I'm missing. I've never set up this option on my Yahoo email. Maybe this is why the message isn't being sent when I try changing the "from" field?
?
Setting up the spoof on the server side (in Yahoo Mail's options) is similar conceptually to what I described for Thunderbird, but it controls a drop-list for the From field in Y!Mail's web interface. I don't know if that relates in any way to using it from Thunderbird. Maybe it acts as an enable for a spoof done in Thunderbird, or maybe Yahoo Mail flat out rejects any spoof submitted through SMTP (Thunderbird).
?
?
Well, I guess I've covered all the answers given so far. And maybe it's not on topic for this list anymore ...
?
I think we're still on topic. Being able to send messages from the group's +owner address is frequently desired by group mods/owners, and this is as good a place as any to discuss ways of doing it and the pros and cons of the various methods.
?
?
Is there another place where we can talk about it, that is, if you guys are interested, without perhaps cluttering up the list with something that may not be of interested for everyone?
?
Anyone who has lost interest can always use the Mute This Topic link in the footer. ? ;-)
?
Shal
?

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Re: New subscribers bypassing the Pending subscription notice

 

?All right, that answers my question then. Thanks to both of you.?
If these messages are not being logged in the activity log, then I don¡¯t know that they¡¯re not receiving them. More than likely they¡¯re just not answering them.

?That¡¯s kind of what I had suspected earlier this morning, so I¡¯m going to leave it at that.

?Thanks again for your help.?

John Myers?

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 11:04 AM Bruce Bowman <bruce.bowman@...> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 09:20 AM, John Myers, KD8MQ wrote:
I run the OSPOTA (Ohio State Parks On The Air) group. I have it set up so that a join request triggers a Pending Subscription notice to them so they can give us more information about themselves. Once they reply favorably to that, we approve them.?

We've had a few that according to the activity log are not getting the notices.
As Chris mentioned, most (all?) automatic notifications do not get logged. An actual failed delivery (i.e.: bounce) should show up in that subscriber's?Email Delivery History. It's always possible that a notification will land in someone's spam/junk folder, so be sure to have your subscribers check for that, too.?

Finally, anyone you Invite/Direct Add is not sent any Pending Subscription notice...and in fact, such people never land in Pending status. Groups.io assumes that you have already vetted them in some other fashion...otherwise you wouldn't have sent them an invitation. If for some reason you need to collect information from everybody (including invitees) you'll have to find some other way to do that.

More info at?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Screening-New-Members-Using-the-Pending-Subscription-Notice

Hope this helps,
Bruce?
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Re: New group manager here with a quick Q

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Instead of letting any member direct add a person they ¡®think¡¯ would like to join their group (With owner/moderator approval), why not ¡®personally¡¯ send to that person that might want to join, the home URL of that group for their consideration of joining.

?

Don
Re: Email to owner's address went to group instead

 

Trista,


This happened this morning. According to the simple header displayed in my email program, the message was definitely sent to the owner's address and not to the group address.

If your "simple header" shows only the Display Name part of the To address that could be the source of confusion, as Marcio suggested. You may need to use "show details", "show original", "view source" or some similarly named function in your email interface in order to see the full To address. The details of doing that depend on the program you're using.

Another possibility is that the sender included the group's posting address as a BCC. But then you should have seen it both in the group and directly as a +owner message. Unless your email interface collapsed the two together as being "the same" message, or unless you haven't elected to receive all +owner messages.

?
We use the owner's address all the time and it has never happened before. Is this a new glitch?

I think it is more likely pilot error on the part of the person who sent the message.

Shal


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Re: re deleting photos

 

I believe at least part of the source of the problem is that there aren't permalinks to photos.? In any album, when a photo is deleted, the "link" to others may change.? For example, if there are 5 photos, they're labeled as /g/groupname/photo/album#/0 through /g/groupname/photo/album#/4.? By deleting #2, they're renumbered as 0-3, so #4 becomes #3.? The ?p= after the initial part of the link should go to the correct one, but doesn't always do it properly.

Duane
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Re: re deleting photos

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

This issue of the wrong picture being displayed in a Photo Album, when clicking on the thumbnail of a particular picture in that album, does not appear to happen all the time for me. When it does happen, I have to click on one or two pictures on either side of the one I want to display the right one. I have not experienced that issue in Emailed Photos to date. Sort order inside a Photo Album should not make a difference, in displaying the correct picture linked to the thumbnail in that album.

?

When I notice this issue happen again, I will spend more time trying to analyze what is happening.

?

Don
Re: New subscribers bypassing the Pending subscription notice

 

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 09:20 AM, John Myers, KD8MQ wrote:
I run the OSPOTA (Ohio State Parks On The Air) group. I have it set up so that a join request triggers a Pending Subscription notice to them so they can give us more information about themselves. Once they reply favorably to that, we approve them.?

We've had a few that according to the activity log are not getting the notices.
As Chris mentioned, most (all?) automatic notifications do not get logged. An actual failed delivery (i.e.: bounce) should show up in that subscriber's?Email Delivery History. It's always possible that a notification will land in someone's spam/junk folder, so be sure to have your subscribers check for that, too.?

Finally, anyone you Invite/Direct Add is not sent any Pending Subscription notice...and in fact, such people never land in Pending status. Groups.io assumes that you have already vetted them in some other fashion...otherwise you wouldn't have sent them an invitation. If for some reason you need to collect information from everybody (including invitees) you'll have to find some other way to do that.

More info at?/g/GroupManagersForum/wiki/Screening-New-Members-Using-the-Pending-Subscription-Notice

Hope this helps,
Bruce?
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Re: Replying From the Owner Email

Marcio
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hi,
I'm going to address more than one answer on this email so it will be a bit long.

Shal,
Depending on your email service, you may be able to create an "account" within your email address which has the group's +owner email address. With Gmail or Yahoo Mail you'll be required to prove that you are authorized to use that address - they'll send a confirmation email to it.
How would I go about setting up that account?
I know it's possible to have more than one identity, which seems to be what Bill talked about here:
Thunderbird can handle multiple different email accounts. If you have more than one account set up, when composing a reply there's a dropdown in the From field in the compose window and there you can choose any of your accounts.?
But when I try to set up a different one from my own email, for example, the message won't be sent no matter what I do :(
Is this what you are talking about?

Peter wrote:
However I have done it successfully using a different address known to Thunderbird and that has gone through OK.
What would be an address "known to Thunderbird"?
I have two accounts configured. Would I then be able to send a message through my Yahoo account simulating the other account that I have? If so, that's nice, but I'll never be able to use the +owner address using this technique unless I make it known to Thunderbird. And how can I make a "virtual address" to be known to Thunderbird? :(

Peter wrote:
Technically spoofing I know, but I have done what I think you are trying to do in Thunderbird going out through btinternet.com. ?

Donald wrote in reply:
I can do that myself (spoof an email address) but only with my ISP
email. I tried it with some webmail accounts and it didn't work for
me.?
Apparently, these days it doesn't work for most of the email providers. As far as I could see Yahoo is one of them, but I'm trying to find out if I missed some step before trying it again.

Shal,
The kind of "account" I'm referring to is something you set up on the Accounts and Import tab of the options page of Gmail's web interface. There's a Send mail as field where you can add more addresses. It doesn't create a new email address or inbox, just an ability to use that address when sending messages via Gmail's server.
In Yahoo Mail it is in the Mailboxes tab of the More Settings page, under Send-only email address.?
Hmmm, I guess that's what I'm missing. I've never set up this option on my Yahoo email. Maybe this is why the message isn't being sent when I try changing the "from" field?

Well, I guess I've covered all the answers given so far. And maybe it's not on?? topic for this list anymore (sorry if it's the case, I've only realised it now). Is there another place where we can talk about it, that is, if you guys are interested, without perhaps cluttering up the list with something that may not be of interested for everyone?

Thanks for the time taken to help me. It's much appreciated.

Cheers,
AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.
Re: New subscribers bypassing the Pending subscription notice

 

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 02:20 PM, John Myers, KD8MQ wrote:
We've had a few that according to the activity log are not getting the notices.
"Normal" Pending Subscription messages are not recorded in the Activity Log, only those sent manually by a Moderator (because there has been no response to that sent automatically)? are recorded.

How do you know that they are not getting the notices given that the Activity Log doesn't tell you!

Chris
Re: Email to owner's address went to group instead

Marcio
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Trista,
According to the simple header displayed in my email program, the message was definitely sent to the owner's address and not to the group address.
Any chance of that address being saved incorrectly?
I mean, some email clients will save email addresses automatically, and usually this cause a lot of troubles.
For example, the person trying to write to the owner's address could be using something like Your Group's name Owner on the Name field, but what matters at the end is the Email field, and this field may well be set to Your Group's address.
Not sure, only a thought :)

Cheers,
AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.
Re: New group manager here with a quick Q

Marcio
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Chris,
If anyone is a Group Owner or Moderator it falls on them to make sure that the group is properly run (however that is to be defined) and handing over who can join / is invited or Direct Added to the wider membership would be completely at odds with that responsibility.
Well, Facebook's groups have an option that will allow members to invite others to the group but a mod/adm has to aprove the member.
IMHO, this would be a nice featureto have on groups.io. You are part of a cool group that you think a friend would be interested on joining, then you just invite them, but they will need to be aproved before actually being counted in.
Of course this would be an option which could be enabled or not, just like most features that we already have :)

Cheers,
AKA Starboy

Sent from a galaxy far, far away.
Re: FAIL: email posting to group

Jonesy W3DHJ
 

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 03:55 AM, Lena wrote:
Are you sure that mail goes out from your vps IP-address?
None of IP-addresses in that range has RDNS. That's a big red flag for receivers.
My bad.? It is a /23.? I attempted to edit the posting after I did the reply.
I host no mail server on my vps; I use my ISP's mail server(s).

>? I'm going to do some low level testing via telnet to port 25 in to the groups.io MTA from....
>? ?-? first my vps (in the 45.13.66.0/23?CIDR)
>? ?-? second from my workstation (on Comcast's 71.205.0.0/16 CIDR)
>? ... and report back.? Real Soon Now.
...... later this morning.

As identified earlier in this thread, my ISP's outbound MTA's are):
?
.? Server name: outbound00.knthost.com
.? Server IP: 45.13.64.13
?
.? Server name: outbound01.knthost.com
.? Server IP: 45.13.64.14
?
jonesy@nix5:~$ dig -x 45.13.64.13 +noall +answer
; <<>> DiG 9.10.3-P4-Ubuntu <<>> -x 45.13.64.13 +noall +answer
;; global options: +cmd
13.64.13.45.in-addr.arpa. 21463 IN? ? ? PTR? ? ?outbound00.knthost.com.

jonesy@nix5:~$ dig -x 45.13.64.14 +noall +answer
; <<>> DiG 9.10.3-P4-Ubuntu <<>> -x 45.13.64.14 +noall +answer
;; global options: +cmd
14.64.13.45.in-addr.arpa. 21599 IN? ? ? PTR? ? ?outbound01.knthost.com.
jonesy@nix5:~$
?
Jonesy
Re: re deleting photos

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

An interesting concept¡­ BUT¡­ my problem IS in Emailed Photos¡­ and it IS set to ¡°sort by posted¡±, and I don¡¯t get the correct photo when clicking on a thumbnail.

Win

?

From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Chris Jones via Groups.Io
Sent: Friday, 9 August 2019 6:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [GMF] re deleting photos

?

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 05:44 AM, Don Grass wrote:

I¡¯ve been noticing that situation too, where the picture I clicked on in an album was not the one that opened, but a picture before or after the one I clicked on.

I feel that this takes us right back to the original query; does this problem manifest irrespective of the location of the photos in question, i.e. are they in Albums or Emailed Photos or both?

I have done some not wholly exhaustive tests this morning and while I am not going to claim that it is not a "cache" issue I would argue that that is not the whole story.

I have found that photos in Albums and those in Emailed Photos seem to behave differently, and that it is a function of the Display / Sort Order chosen by the individual user, and I think that it all goes back to when Mark changed the default order to Sort By Posted¡Í. For those of use that had set up our Photo Albums to work alphanumerically this made it necessary to change the Album setting to Sort by Title¡Í and the album contents to Sort by Name¡Í.?This made "albums" work again, but because these settings are Account Wide (and thus Group Wide) it meant that within Emailed Photos the sort order became by Name, not Posting Date.?

At this point the two different "types" of photo differ in thier behaviour; in "proper" photo albums clicking on a thumbnail seems to bring up the correct photo irrespective of the chosen sort order, but that is not true for Emailed Photos; clicking on a thumbnail in Emailed Photos only brings up the correct photo if the Sort Order is Sort by Posted¡Í,.but as mentioned above if Sort by Name is selected for other Albums then the same setting will be forced on Emailed Photos.

IMHO it would be far better if Sort by Title / Name was an option only for Albums, leaving Emailed Photos as Sort by Posted.

I hope the above makes sense... :)

Chris

Re: New group manager here with a quick Q

 

On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 01:26 AM, Lucien Lewis wrote:
I just set up a group and I want any member to be able to add any other member.?
Is there a setting for that?
About 3 years ago there was a suggestion made, and added to the TODO list, to allow an option for anyone on a group to send invitations:


That list doesn't get updated very often and there are several items shown that have been implemented, but this isn't one of them (yet.)? If you read through the lists, you'll see there are many things under consideration, so Mark has to prioritize.

I wouldn't want a member to be able to Direct Add though.

Duane
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New subscribers bypassing the Pending subscription notice

 

Hi,

I run the OSPOTA (Ohio State Parks On The Air) group. I have it set up so that a join request triggers a Pending Subscription notice to them so they can give us more information about themselves. Once they reply favorably to that, we approve them.?

We've had a few that according to the activity log are not getting the notices. Once I get a notice that there's a pending subscription,? I send the notice manually.?

I've looked through the settings, and all seems proper. Is there something I need to change in the setup to get things working properly?

Thanks in advance,

John Myers
/g/OSPOTA
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